ROFL.. some of you people on this dang site (and outside of this site) are so freaken ignorant and stuck-up.
"Has SOE on the box. WON'T BUY IT!" "Envolves SOE. WON'T BUY IT!" They screwed up SWG, but that was with LucasArts approval so don't ever forget that. They fixed EQ1 before Brad tanked it. I will admit they drove it a bit to far with so many expansions. EQ2 had a ruff start, but turned into a fantastic game. Planetside is doing better and continues to grow. Matrix Online sucks due to concept.. come on.. that concept is just.. dumb.. movies are "Ok", but a game? No thanks. Not SOEs fault. Vanguard is doing much better then before and they are improving it at a hugely rapid rate. You people act like they are the freaken plague. Your under-educated brains can't comprehend the differense between. PUBLISHER and DEVELOPER. They have absolutely NO SAY in the final product. You need to understand this. They're a good company, but to many idiots screwed up their good name. Not them. Your half-arse assumptions is what screwed it. Now you spread your stupid lies accross the web and cause discontent in others. Anyway.. whatever.. I planned to try it weither SOEs name was on it or not.. i'm not that shallow
I think that if I ever get into that dumb 'SOE Sucks' topic again, I am going to cut and paste this. Sums it up beautfiully! Nice one
If SoE is still handling marketing and retail distribution, then how exactly are they not publishing it anymore?
Exactly, by definition "Publish" means "Market and Distribute".
Ms. Debysue Wolfcale (what a great name btw, is it real?) did specify "retail distribution" so maybe PE is reserving ONLINE Distribution for themselves?
ROFL.. some of you people on this dang site (and outside of this site) are so freaken ignorant and stuck-up.
"Has SOE on the box. WON'T BUY IT!" "Envolves SOE. WON'T BUY IT!" They screwed up SWG, but that was with LucasArts approval so don't ever forget that. They fixed EQ1 before Brad tanked it. I will admit they drove it a bit to far with so many expansions. EQ2 had a ruff start, but turned into a fantastic game. Planetside is doing better and continues to grow. Matrix Online sucks due to concept.. come on.. that concept is just.. dumb.. movies are "Ok", but a game? No thanks. Not SOEs fault. Vanguard is doing much better then before and they are improving it at a hugely rapid rate. You people act like they are the freaken plague. Your under-educated brains can't comprehend the differense between. PUBLISHER and DEVELOPER. They have absolutely NO SAY in the final product. You need to understand this. They're a good company, but to many idiots screwed up their good name. Not them. Your half-arse assumptions is what screwed it. Now you spread your stupid lies accross the web and cause discontent in others. Anyway.. whatever.. I planned to try it weither SOEs name was on it or not.. i'm not that shallow
How do you know that? We've heard before stuff like that and its not uncommon for big corps to say that and have secret negotiations with SOE managers for a sale or merger. After Vanguard, I wont believe anything they say. Not saying this is true or not, but I don't have absolute belief in what corps say anymore.
This looks rather suspicious, they say they are self-publishing the title, yet SOE is basically denying this and saying that they are STILL handling the packaging and distribution. In my opinon something's definitely fishy, either Perpetual is lying out of their teeth just to keep their player base settled, or alternatively ( this is what I believe ) there has been some kind of shake up between Sony and Perpetual, perpetual has tried to claim independency and reject SOE's contract whatever it may be but SOE are trying to keep it secret, I might even go so far as to think that they might have influenced Warcry to report something different to what the company themselves are saying. Clearly one of them is lying? But which one? I personally think it's SOE, they're known for using tactics like this and they're basically denying the claims that Perpetual has made.
Call me paranoid, but I believe somethings definitely happened with the higher ups, but if it is true that perpetuals self-publishing, Long live games industry independence! I may actually consider trying this game if they're no longer letting themselves be used by SOE!
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Thats one of the most dumb things I have recently heard. Why would they want to publish it themselves? Its very expensive and takes great expertise. I know people have argued against SOE's quality in making games, but whats to say against their publishing?? Nothing I have ever heard tells me their way to publish things is bad.
It looks like Gods and Heroes shot itself in the foot with this. Why they did this is beyond me. Why did they stay with SOE all the long time and now, all of a sudden, shortly before release get the publishing rights back without any real comment? This stinks. It prolly means not being included into station pass, in which case I tend to skip this game. Their loss. *shrug*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Ah, so you just wanted to play Gods and Heroes as long as it got onto station pass eh? Ah well, it would be a reasonably good deal if even half their games were actually good. I'd like to point out though that if they put it on the download page and don't have any advertising up it won't exactly hurt the game they just won't have as many subscribers as if they advertised it around the internet for a bit, the game still can be distributed fine via download people would just have to wait a little while before being able to install it ( Oh the horror *sarcasm* ) I'm perfectly happy with this decision and if it's true that they're going to be fully independent like I think they are, I may actually be willing to give the game a try while I wait for another sandbox MMORPG to get my interest.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Ah, so you just wanted to play Gods and Heroes as long as it got onto station pass eh? Ah well, it would be a reasonably good deal if even half their games were actually good. I'd like to point out though that if they put it on the download page and don't have any advertising up it won't exactly hurt the game they just won't have as many subscribers as if they advertised it around the internet for a bit, the game still can be distributed fine via download people would just have to wait a little while before being able to install it ( Oh the horror *sarcasm* ) I'm perfectly happy with this decision and if it's true that they're going to be fully independent like I think they are, I may actually be willing to give the game a try while I wait for another sandbox MMORPG to get my interest.
I have neither love nor hate for SOE, but for once I prefer to deal with a company I know, and to this day I havent had any bad experiences with them, personally. Its also a monetary reason. I have station pass and just dont want to pay more for a game I dont even know now. TBH it wasnt high on my list, but with station I'd give it a try.
As to the publisher topic: publishers ALWAYS have a word in a product. Every author hands the book to the publisher has to answer to comments and suggestions. Unless maybe you are a really big one. So yes of course SOE has a word, every publisher has, I mean, its your millions of dollars, you WOULD want to have a word in it, no matter what they say. Its not that a publisher has big influence, but they can make comments and an author listens to a degree. Still, I dont get all the fuzz. EQ, EQ2 and Planetside were pretty decend games, and even SWG was and is. I mean, you may not like this kind of games, maybe you prefer WOW or Lineage, but so what? None of these games is perfect.
Basically, if you REALLY follow the MMO publisher history, ALL of them act more or less the same. Blizzard for instance is FAR mor arrogant with its customers, and NCSoft has a MUCH more dubious way to handle the account. But thats no reason for me not to have played WOW or CoH or boycott them.
Some people act as if SOE killed a member of their family! I dont see any terrible things SOE did. They have faults, as every other game making company has. Grow up. This boycott balderdash is just so childish. Did Smed shoot your Mom or what?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Changes nothing. SOE is still involved. Won't buy it.
Believe me, the people who play this game will be ver y happy that people like you aren't playing it.
I love this statement, and well said. People who are so ignorant that they actually believe that SoE has some god-like control over a company such as PE are childish and naive and have no clue what is going on. And with this being said, have no place in a game that I want to play. So please, continue to bash SoE and play other games. I am over the moon excited that I won't be seeing you in this game. That is a check in the positive column for Gods and Heroes as far as I am concerned.
My first, and only, response to the subject matter of this thread
So SOE STILL is the publisher, they just want to hide that fact. Personally, i dont care, if the game is good, i will play, doesnt matter who is what. As long as it isnt ultima online.......
Originally posted by brostyn
If SoE is still handling marketing and retail distribution, then how exactly are they not publishing it anymore? Seems like they are publishing it, but PE is trying to be shady about it.
Originally posted by observer
This makes absolutey no sense. The only thing that changed? GNH stopped SOE from being listed?
For the few who have trouble making all the funny little letters make sense, let me clarify it for you.
PE is now self-published.
This means that they will be paying more for SOE to make some ads and slap out some cds in pretty boxes (marketing and distribution for those who are uninformed).
It means SOE has no say as to when the game gets released, as they can not put any pressure of the "Look for another publisher unless you release now" crap. They get no credit for the game except for being able to draw pretty pictures for ads and make pretty boxes for cds to go in.
It also means SOE has no legal claim to the game if it fails, unlike they did with VG. SOE is putting none of their money into GnH, therefore they have nothing to collect.
Does that help you understand, now?
Well, except for the fact that being a publisher means EXACTLY; bring a product to retail and marketing said product. SoE is still doing this. So, again, how exactly is PE being self published when SOE is doing the marketing and taking it to retail, which isby definition is publishing.
If you bring a product to retail and do marketing its called publishing. Look it at up. You obviously are the one who is confused by small words.
Even though its already been said, I'll say it also. LucasArts brought down Star Wars Galaxies as did SOE. I would also like everyone to realize SOe devs and SOE publishers are DIFFERENT. SOE isnt touching the dev aspect of this game at all, they are only marketing it and SOE has a great marketing group so in a way I'm glad they are doing it.
By the way, SOE recently let veterans come back to SWG for free to see how the game has turned out. Interesting that so many people were asking for it and yet there arent tons of people thanking them. Instead people continue to bash them until they get what they want. So if you dont want to play GnH just because SOE is "tainting" it then so be it, I for one will go and play this game to see if it is good or not.
So SOE STILL is the publisher, they just want to hide that fact. Personally, i dont care, if the game is good, i will play, doesnt matter who is what. As long as it isnt ultima online.......
Originally posted by brostyn
If SoE is still handling marketing and retail distribution, then how exactly are they not publishing it anymore? Seems like they are publishing it, but PE is trying to be shady about it.
Originally posted by observer
This makes absolutey no sense. The only thing that changed? GNH stopped SOE from being listed?
For the few who have trouble making all the funny little letters make sense, let me clarify it for you.
PE is now self-published.
This means that they will be paying more for SOE to make some ads and slap out some cds in pretty boxes (marketing and distribution for those who are uninformed).
It means SOE has no say as to when the game gets released, as they can not put any pressure of the "Look for another publisher unless you release now" crap. They get no credit for the game except for being able to draw pretty pictures for ads and make pretty boxes for cds to go in.
It also means SOE has no legal claim to the game if it fails, unlike they did with VG. SOE is putting none of their money into GnH, therefore they have nothing to collect.
Does that help you understand, now?
Well, except for the fact that being a publisher means EXACTLY; bring a product to retail and marketing said product. SoE is still doing this. So, again, how exactly is PE being self published when SOE is doing the marketing and taking it to retail, which isby definition is publishing.
If you bring a product to retail and do marketing its called publishing. Look it at up. You obviously are the one who is confused by small words.
I think they are changing it so youll see PE on the cover when you buy it and you wont see SOE. But that's just my take on it, im not really sure if thats what will happen. However before I was assuming you would see PE and SOE's name on the cover. Anyways, I guess we wont know til they come out with the cover art or something :P
Do you mean to tell me that SOE are still not shitting gold !!!! Unbelievable, the worldwide community (yeah right) told them that we would boycott everything they ever did, supported, published, sneezed upon, looked at until they learned to be perfect and make everything bright and shiny. Well, I was one of the ones that bought ( insert name of generic MMO) from them ( or maybe someone before them - who cares) and then they try to change things without first consulting these forums.!!! Therefore they deserve the flaming they get. And dont try and tell me that they dont read and worry about every single nasty post that is made on these and countless other forums cos I wont believe you. I am sure, in fact positive, in fact its now a fact - that they employ armies of fanbois to sit and read all anti-SOE posts. (probably have a press clippping somewhere to prove it) Now, who made the rubiks cube cos that pisses me off too.
Maybe now finaly some of you realize how pittit and tiny the "worldwide community told them to boycott" trust me some people can only be vocal about small things that shouldn't even matter and they got no back to really make a difference, this is mostly because most people that are capeble of hate are ignorant and un-educated. There for is logical we wil see more and more company's dealing with SOE, use the internet and some of you probebly gonna cry even more when you read wich other company's gonna go in bed with SOE Shall i hand out some kleenex already
I'm glad Perpetual clarified this very early on.Though i'd like SOE to have nothign to do with G&H at all, i do understand that by distributing the game that SOE isn't playing an integral role in any way of how the game itself operates in any way, unfortunately SOE can't be trusted in any way and can only hope Perpetual never feels the need to expand SOE's role/relationship with thenselves.
God's and Heroes is going to be the dress rehersal for the much anticipated Star Trek Online(my dream mmorpg)and i can tell ya SOE would love to get it's claws in that game especially since it's attempts to make a successful Star Wars mmo has failed miserably.My advice to Perpetual would be to have 2K or some other entity distribute their games foe them.SOE simply cannot be trusted and no doubt has ulterior motives in any deal they try to forge with Perpetual.
omg....seriously...u know...we all should be done with the "SOE whinning" by now...oh boo hoo....they are evil, we want our games we loved so much back....for one thing, we are little ppl to them and they dont care that u hate them, nor will they ever give in to ur demands...namely...the SWG problem. Yes it really sucks now...but they like it that way...they love to see you all cry....if you really wanted to get their attention...go rally a petition in front of their main office...maybe then they will actually see you without the power of deleting posts that u make, or shutting off their monitors whenever they see a "WE ALL HATE $OE" official thread. but thats ok...if it will take 6 more years to show you all that in their eyes you all are nothing but the crap under their shoes then thats ok...some fights arent worth fighting for, because the more you push..the more they dont really care..
You SOE fanboys don't get it. We understand the difference between a DEVELOPER and PUBLISHER and we DON'T CARE! If SOE is benefiting financially in any way from a game we don't want to pay money for it.
We understand that Perpetual is developing the game and that if it sucks it's on them but that isn't the point. SOE will be making money from Gods & Heroes so we won't play it.
Do you hear soe fanboys goin ,yeah, l33t, w00h00 soe FTW all over the forums when they announce a title that soe is participating in?
NO
What i do you have to read every f_cking time soe in mentioned is, SOE suck, Soe is evil i wount touch soe stuff, they ruined SWG....bla bla bla bla...
The world does not revolve around you hateful ppl, im SICK of this WHINING, You will not save ppl from going soe there is no point in educating them,and there are actually ppl that have had a nice experience with soe.
Well atleast you hate numbers are dwindling down to non existing since there is more and more that understand that they are on a hopeless crusade that will never end and they will grow old and be refered to as the grumpy old senile bickering over some crap that no one gives a shit about anymore.
There you have it its my fuel on the fire for making me read your whining in every soe thread i´ve seen, so go ahead reply to my post and start wasting your time again in your hopeless crusade.
Originally posted by Krileon God some of you are so ignorant. SOE was a publisher at the time of MANY of those games you so claim that SOE "screwed you over." They had no dang say in the game yet you continued to blame them. What a shame. People these days.. shesh so stupid. Do your research before blabbing off whos fault it was. SOE told the trueth about SWG. LA blamed it on SOE when SOE was just publishing the game. NO DEVELOPING IT. THEY WAS CONTRACTED BY LA TO *HELP* DEVELOP IT, BUT LA HAD TOTAL CONTROL OF ALL ASSETS AND THE DIRECTION OF THE GAME. It is stated BY LA they wanted a more "Starwars feel and immersion" to the damn game. Sort of like their single-players, but on massive scale. THAT was a call made by LA. SOE just carried it out as was told, but no matter wtf is said you'll continue to blame SOE for crap.
I gotta disagree with part of your description of the SOE/LA relationship on SWG. While LA does have final approval rights on SWG, as they do with all "starwars" games (tho used mainly for SW canon issues), and LA did ask for SOE to pick up the pace and make it more "starwarsy" etc in hopes of bringing up subscription numbers, it was infact SOE as developer of SWG who came up with the NGE as the answer to those requests. Heres somthing I cut-n-pasted from a previous thread, where I commented on this same issue, its just straight from the horses (SOE) mouth, and pretty much seals the deal (least imo) on the whole SWG blame game...
Take a look at this post, made on the official SOE boards, by Brenlo, SOE's Director of Global Community Relations. I bolded the part you should take special note of.... http://soe.lithium.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=1039243 First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's. So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different. Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize. Brenlo Bixiebopper
Director, Global Community Relations - SOE
---------------------------------------------
It's a rough life, but someone has to live it. And he's not the only SOE employee to make similar statements, regarding how it was infact SOE that developed, and pushed forward the implimentation of the NGE. Here's a small snippet from Jeff Freeman's blog post "Shenanigans" from Nov 2005 (which he's since deleted), back when claiming involvment in the NGE wasnt considered career damaging, as it is now. It should be noted Freeman no longer works for SOE... As of last week or so, now it's "Lead Game Play Designer". A step backwards in terms of character-count, but not actually a demotion, or even that big a change in responsibilities.
Mind, we have a Creative Director and that isn't me, and a Lead Designer and that isn't me either. They're both my bosses, even though my title's longer. And there's a whole plethora of producers and executives and executive producers above that.
So don't get the crazy notion that I'm "in charge" here. "The Man" is a many-headed beast called Management. I just try to help it make good decisions. With regard to game mechanics, it even lets me decide, sometimes.
So a few months ago The Man comes along and says "What can we do to make this the most fun game it can possibly be?"
It was the lead designer who holed-up in his office for a few days and then said, "Hey, come look at this."
There's no way we can do that.
There's no way we should do that.
Man that's fun.
The Man will never let us get away with doing that.
We can't do it.
We shouldn't do it.
Oh man that is fun.
When an executive producer sees something that is impossible to do, but which is too fun not to do, he makes a noise like "Hoooooooooph".
My job was to be the guy to say, "Yes we can do that." I had to say this about forty times a day for two months. Lead Designer said it too, of course, but no one believed him, because he's crazy. Obviously.
And they would only believe me for a few minutes at a time. So, as you can see by their own words, SOE is the company to blame for the NGE. Did LA want better subscription numbers for SWG? Of course they did, it's a business after all. Was LA stupid enough to believe the crap that SOE was pushing in regards to the NGE being the answer to that problem? Unfortunately, yes. So, is LA guilty of approving the NGE, yep, but not nearly as guilty as the people that developed and pitched the idea to LA, and that'd be SOE.
Anyhow, on the Perpetual/SOE topic, seems like a pretty smart move on PE's part, distancing themselves from SOE as much as they can. SOE does have a black eye due to the NGE disaster, and its not just a small group of crazy SWG vets that are out to ruin poor lil SOE that believe this either, the fact is what SOE did with SWG was wrong, unethical, a classic bait-and-switch, and shouldve never happened, plain and simple. So these people posting in here, about how they'll never give SOE another dime of their money ever again (even if SOE isnt the developer, any connection to SOE and its tainted etc), are very much justified in their resentment of SOE, their choice to boycott SOE products, and their desire to pass on the word about SOE's shady business practices.
But I do understand why those eagerly awaiting G&H are getting a bit defensive in here atm, I mean everybody wants their game of choice to do well, and they all want people to know SOE has no developer control over G&H etc, but to attack the people who rightfully have a bitter taste in their mouth over anything related to SOE doesnt have to be part of that debate. Your better off to just state the facts of how G&H isnt developed by SOE, and give some info on why you think this game rocks, and thus should be given a fair chance etc, then people might actually look into the game and give it a try, instead of just getting into a "fanboy vs SOE-hater" flame fest, which will help G&H little
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
Changes nothing. SOE is still involved. Won't buy it.
agree lol, i had an issue with Soe and seriously i and many of my friends ill not play any of the games Soe involved in, quit simple.
im just gonna stick with NCsoft ^^ their games are cool, custumers service is fine, and they dont make an addon at 40 euro every 3mounths.
i have played lineage 2 for years even if i forgot to stop my bailing, it does automaticly, my friend forgot that on EQ2, when he wanted to came back and test last addon he found himself banned, he asked to get unbanned they told him he have to buy the game inorder to get unbanned, even if he had the key for the game and all addons on his main account...they wanted him to buy again the game + addons wich is more than 100 euro, so he just lost his 49E buying the last addon and stfu at Soe.
this whole story have no sens to me, why bailing doesnt stop auto, why have to buy new key the unbann a char on other key game, why not bann only the game, and bann also all addons ?
lo ! no offens for Soe's Lovers, cya maybe on warhammer or aion
NotArkardLord of the Rings Online CorrespondentMemberPosts: 164
Originally posted by brostyn
Originally posted by Zorvan
Originally posted by Tenebroso
So SOE STILL is the publisher, they just want to hide that fact. Personally, i dont care, if the game is good, i will play, doesnt matter who is what. As long as it isnt ultima online.......
Originally posted by brostyn
If SoE is still handling marketing and retail distribution, then how exactly are they not publishing it anymore? Seems like they are publishing it, but PE is trying to be shady about it.
Originally posted by observer
This makes absolutey no sense. The only thing that changed? GNH stopped SOE from being listed?
For the few who have trouble making all the funny little letters make sense, let me clarify it for you.
PE is now self-published.
This means that they will be paying more for SOE to make some ads and slap out some cds in pretty boxes (marketing and distribution for those who are uninformed).
It means SOE has no say as to when the game gets released, as they can not put any pressure of the "Look for another publisher unless you release now" crap. They get no credit for the game except for being able to draw pretty pictures for ads and make pretty boxes for cds to go in.
It also means SOE has no legal claim to the game if it fails, unlike they did with VG. SOE is putting none of their money into GnH, therefore they have nothing to collect.
Does that help you understand, now?
Well, except for the fact that being a publisher means EXACTLY; bring a product to retail and marketing said product. SoE is still doing this. So, again, how exactly is PE being self published when SOE is doing the marketing and taking it to retail, which isby definition is publishing.
If you bring a product to retail and do marketing its called publishing. Look it at up. You obviously are the one who is confused by small words.
It's pretty self explanatory. Since you still seem to be having difficulty with words I'll take another crack at explaining it(even though in the seven pages I read this has been explained in at least a dozen different ways already). PE made the decision that SOE will no longer be the publisher of the game, meaning that SOE can no longer set any deadlines, as any publisher normally can(this applies to books, games, anything that involves a publisher). However, PE is not retarded. Knowing that SOE is the excellent publisher they are, they will still be paying them INDEPENDENTLY for their work in advertisements and retail distribution. This by no means makes them the publisher of the game. Think of ANY advertisement you've ever seen on a website, hell, even on this very own website. You see advertisements for a bunch of games. Someone's getting paid for that advertisement space, does that mean that MMORPG.com is the official publisher of every game advertised here?
If SOE can do one thing right, it's marketing. Knowing this, and knowing the fact that a million nerds are still pissed about SWG, they decided to self-publish the game. This means they can employ the service of any marketing company to do the advertisements and retail distribution for them. They, as a now independent company, chose SOE.
For those still unclear, SOE will not be hosting any servers. SOE will not have any more say in the game as say...MMORPG.com. VG needed SOE's help in development, which is why they made that decision. G&H however, does not. They will develop the game themselves because they can, so for those people still thinking there are shady deals being made: it would make no sense for G&H to declare themselves independent in all aspects(publishing, developing, etc.) then turn over development to another company. PE knows they can make more money if they do everything themselves. It's all business, it's not about screwing the SWG nerds like everyone seems to think. Since it's more profitable for PE to do everything internally, seeing as no profits will be shared, they have no reason to give any say to SOE or turn over development to them.
This argument's long from dead, but I believe my reply to have at least wounded it severely.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Sigh, can we stop the SOE bashing for a sec, try reading between the lines. This is perpetuals first step into turning themselves into mmo developing kings , originally sony was going to take care of the tech support stuff and costumer relations because they were going to be running the servers but perpetual have taken a very brave and decided to handle it all themselves. Blizzard started off this way to with world of warcraft and look at them now!
I hope perpetuals future in the mmo world is a bright one and i wish them all the best
Originally posted by zaxxon23 Believe me, the people who play this game will be very happy that people like you aren't playing it.
That is a defeating statement.
The fanatics of Vanguard made the same statement before and got their wish.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Comments
I think that if I ever get into that dumb 'SOE Sucks' topic again, I am going to cut and paste this. Sums it up beautfiully! Nice one
Ms. Debysue Wolfcale (what a great name btw, is it real?) did specify "retail distribution" so maybe PE is reserving ONLINE Distribution for themselves?
How do you know that? We've heard before stuff like that and its not uncommon for big corps to say that and have secret negotiations with SOE managers for a sale or merger. After Vanguard, I wont believe anything they say. Not saying this is true or not, but I don't have absolute belief in what corps say anymore.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
This looks rather suspicious, they say they are self-publishing the title, yet SOE is basically denying this and saying that they are STILL handling the packaging and distribution. In my opinon something's definitely fishy, either Perpetual is lying out of their teeth just to keep their player base settled, or alternatively ( this is what I believe ) there has been some kind of shake up between Sony and Perpetual, perpetual has tried to claim independency and reject SOE's contract whatever it may be but SOE are trying to keep it secret, I might even go so far as to think that they might have influenced Warcry to report something different to what the company themselves are saying. Clearly one of them is lying? But which one? I personally think it's SOE, they're known for using tactics like this and they're basically denying the claims that Perpetual has made.
Call me paranoid, but I believe somethings definitely happened with the higher ups, but if it is true that perpetuals self-publishing, Long live games industry independence! I may actually consider trying this game if they're no longer letting themselves be used by SOE!
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Thats one of the most dumb things I have recently heard. Why would they want to publish it themselves? Its very expensive and takes great expertise. I know people have argued against SOE's quality in making games, but whats to say against their publishing?? Nothing I have ever heard tells me their way to publish things is bad.
It looks like Gods and Heroes shot itself in the foot with this. Why they did this is beyond me. Why did they stay with SOE all the long time and now, all of a sudden, shortly before release get the publishing rights back without any real comment? This stinks. It prolly means not being included into station pass, in which case I tend to skip this game. Their loss. *shrug*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Ah, so you just wanted to play Gods and Heroes as long as it got onto station pass eh? Ah well, it would be a reasonably good deal if even half their games were actually good. I'd like to point out though that if they put it on the download page and don't have any advertising up it won't exactly hurt the game they just won't have as many subscribers as if they advertised it around the internet for a bit, the game still can be distributed fine via download people would just have to wait a little while before being able to install it ( Oh the horror *sarcasm* ) I'm perfectly happy with this decision and if it's true that they're going to be fully independent like I think they are, I may actually be willing to give the game a try while I wait for another sandbox MMORPG to get my interest.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
I have neither love nor hate for SOE, but for once I prefer to deal with a company I know, and to this day I havent had any bad experiences with them, personally. Its also a monetary reason. I have station pass and just dont want to pay more for a game I dont even know now. TBH it wasnt high on my list, but with station I'd give it a try.
As to the publisher topic: publishers ALWAYS have a word in a product. Every author hands the book to the publisher has to answer to comments and suggestions. Unless maybe you are a really big one. So yes of course SOE has a word, every publisher has, I mean, its your millions of dollars, you WOULD want to have a word in it, no matter what they say. Its not that a publisher has big influence, but they can make comments and an author listens to a degree. Still, I dont get all the fuzz. EQ, EQ2 and Planetside were pretty decend games, and even SWG was and is. I mean, you may not like this kind of games, maybe you prefer WOW or Lineage, but so what? None of these games is perfect.
Basically, if you REALLY follow the MMO publisher history, ALL of them act more or less the same. Blizzard for instance is FAR mor arrogant with its customers, and NCSoft has a MUCH more dubious way to handle the account. But thats no reason for me not to have played WOW or CoH or boycott them.
Some people act as if SOE killed a member of their family! I dont see any terrible things SOE did. They have faults, as every other game making company has. Grow up. This boycott balderdash is just so childish. Did Smed shoot your Mom or what?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
QFT
Believe me, the people who play this game will be ver y happy that people like you aren't playing it.
I love this statement, and well said. People who are so ignorant that they actually believe that SoE has some god-like control over a company such as PE are childish and naive and have no clue what is going on. And with this being said, have no place in a game that I want to play. So please, continue to bash SoE and play other games. I am over the moon excited that I won't be seeing you in this game. That is a check in the positive column for Gods and Heroes as far as I am concerned.
My first, and only, response to the subject matter of this thread
For the few who have trouble making all the funny little letters make sense, let me clarify it for you.
PE is now self-published.
This means that they will be paying more for SOE to make some ads and slap out some cds in pretty boxes (marketing and distribution for those who are uninformed).
It means SOE has no say as to when the game gets released, as they can not put any pressure of the "Look for another publisher unless you release now" crap. They get no credit for the game except for being able to draw pretty pictures for ads and make pretty boxes for cds to go in.
It also means SOE has no legal claim to the game if it fails, unlike they did with VG. SOE is putting none of their money into GnH, therefore they have nothing to collect.
Does that help you understand, now?
Well, except for the fact that being a publisher means EXACTLY; bring a product to retail and marketing said product. SoE is still doing this. So, again, how exactly is PE being self published when SOE is doing the marketing and taking it to retail, which isby definition is publishing.If you bring a product to retail and do marketing its called publishing. Look it at up. You obviously are the one who is confused by small words.
Even though its already been said, I'll say it also. LucasArts brought down Star Wars Galaxies as did SOE. I would also like everyone to realize SOe devs and SOE publishers are DIFFERENT. SOE isnt touching the dev aspect of this game at all, they are only marketing it and SOE has a great marketing group so in a way I'm glad they are doing it.
By the way, SOE recently let veterans come back to SWG for free to see how the game has turned out. Interesting that so many people were asking for it and yet there arent tons of people thanking them. Instead people continue to bash them until they get what they want. So if you dont want to play GnH just because SOE is "tainting" it then so be it, I for one will go and play this game to see if it is good or not.
For the few who have trouble making all the funny little letters make sense, let me clarify it for you.
PE is now self-published.
This means that they will be paying more for SOE to make some ads and slap out some cds in pretty boxes (marketing and distribution for those who are uninformed).
It means SOE has no say as to when the game gets released, as they can not put any pressure of the "Look for another publisher unless you release now" crap. They get no credit for the game except for being able to draw pretty pictures for ads and make pretty boxes for cds to go in.
It also means SOE has no legal claim to the game if it fails, unlike they did with VG. SOE is putting none of their money into GnH, therefore they have nothing to collect.
Does that help you understand, now?
Well, except for the fact that being a publisher means EXACTLY; bring a product to retail and marketing said product. SoE is still doing this. So, again, how exactly is PE being self published when SOE is doing the marketing and taking it to retail, which isby definition is publishing.If you bring a product to retail and do marketing its called publishing. Look it at up. You obviously are the one who is confused by small words.
I think they are changing it so youll see PE on the cover when you buy it and you wont see SOE. But that's just my take on it, im not really sure if thats what will happen. However before I was assuming you would see PE and SOE's name on the cover. Anyways, I guess we wont know til they come out with the cover art or something :P
I'm glad Perpetual clarified this very early on.Though i'd like SOE to have nothign to do with G&H at all, i do understand that by distributing the game that SOE isn't playing an integral role in any way of how the game itself operates in any way, unfortunately SOE can't be trusted in any way and can only hope Perpetual never feels the need to expand SOE's role/relationship with thenselves.
God's and Heroes is going to be the dress rehersal for the much anticipated Star Trek Online(my dream mmorpg)and i can tell ya SOE would love to get it's claws in that game especially since it's attempts to make a successful Star Wars mmo has failed miserably.My advice to Perpetual would be to have 2K or some other entity distribute their games foe them.SOE simply cannot be trusted and no doubt has ulterior motives in any deal they try to forge with Perpetual.
omg....seriously...u know...we all should be done with the "SOE whinning" by now...oh boo hoo....they are evil, we want our games we loved so much back....for one thing, we are little ppl to them and they dont care that u hate them, nor will they ever give in to ur demands...namely...the SWG problem. Yes it really sucks now...but they like it that way...they love to see you all cry....if you really wanted to get their attention...go rally a petition in front of their main office...maybe then they will actually see you without the power of deleting posts that u make, or shutting off their monitors whenever they see a "WE ALL HATE $OE" official thread. but thats ok...if it will take 6 more years to show you all that in their eyes you all are nothing but the crap under their shoes then thats ok...some fights arent worth fighting for, because the more you push..the more they dont really care..
You SOE fanboys don't get it. We understand the difference between a DEVELOPER and PUBLISHER and we DON'T CARE! If SOE is benefiting financially in any way from a game we don't want to pay money for it.
We understand that Perpetual is developing the game and that if it sucks it's on them but that isn't the point. SOE will be making money from Gods & Heroes so we won't play it.
Why is such a simple concept beyond you?
Do you hear soe fanboys goin ,yeah, l33t, w00h00 soe FTW all over the forums when they announce a title that soe is participating in?
NO
What i do you have to read every f_cking time soe in mentioned is, SOE suck, Soe is evil i wount touch soe stuff, they ruined SWG....bla bla bla bla...
The world does not revolve around you hateful ppl, im SICK of this WHINING, You will not save ppl from going soe there is no point in educating them,and there are actually ppl that have had a nice experience with soe.
Well atleast you hate numbers are dwindling down to non existing since there is more and more that understand that they are on a hopeless crusade that will never end and they will grow old and be refered to as the grumpy old senile bickering over some crap that no one gives a shit about anymore.
There you have it its my fuel on the fire for making me read your whining in every soe thread i´ve seen, so go ahead reply to my post and start wasting your time again in your hopeless crusade.
I gotta disagree with part of your description of the SOE/LA relationship on SWG. While LA does have final approval rights on SWG, as they do with all "starwars" games (tho used mainly for SW canon issues), and LA did ask for SOE to pick up the pace and make it more "starwarsy" etc in hopes of bringing up subscription numbers, it was infact SOE as developer of SWG who came up with the NGE as the answer to those requests. Heres somthing I cut-n-pasted from a previous thread, where I commented on this same issue, its just straight from the horses (SOE) mouth, and pretty much seals the deal (least imo) on the whole SWG blame game...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1220809#1220809
Anyhow, on the Perpetual/SOE topic, seems like a pretty smart move on PE's part, distancing themselves from SOE as much as they can. SOE does have a black eye due to the NGE disaster, and its not just a small group of crazy SWG vets that are out to ruin poor lil SOE that believe this either, the fact is what SOE did with SWG was wrong, unethical, a classic bait-and-switch, and shouldve never happened, plain and simple. So these people posting in here, about how they'll never give SOE another dime of their money ever again (even if SOE isnt the developer, any connection to SOE and its tainted etc), are very much justified in their resentment of SOE, their choice to boycott SOE products, and their desire to pass on the word about SOE's shady business practices.
But I do understand why those eagerly awaiting G&H are getting a bit defensive in here atm, I mean everybody wants their game of choice to do well, and they all want people to know SOE has no developer control over G&H etc, but to attack the people who rightfully have a bitter taste in their mouth over anything related to SOE doesnt have to be part of that debate. Your better off to just state the facts of how G&H isnt developed by SOE, and give some info on why you think this game rocks, and thus should be given a fair chance etc, then people might actually look into the game and give it a try, instead of just getting into a "fanboy vs SOE-hater" flame fest, which will help G&H little
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now.
We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
im just gonna stick with NCsoft ^^ their games are cool, custumers service is fine, and they dont make an addon at 40 euro every 3mounths.
i have played lineage 2 for years even if i forgot to stop my bailing, it does automaticly, my friend forgot that on EQ2, when he wanted to came back and test last addon he found himself banned, he asked to get unbanned they told him he have to buy the game inorder to get unbanned, even if he had the key for the game and all addons on his main account...they wanted him to buy again the game + addons wich is more than 100 euro, so he just lost his 49E buying the last addon and stfu at Soe.
this whole story have no sens to me, why bailing doesnt stop auto, why have to buy new key the unbann a char on other key game, why not bann only the game, and bann also all addons ?
lo ! no offens for Soe's Lovers, cya maybe on warhammer or aion
For the few who have trouble making all the funny little letters make sense, let me clarify it for you.
PE is now self-published.
This means that they will be paying more for SOE to make some ads and slap out some cds in pretty boxes (marketing and distribution for those who are uninformed).
It means SOE has no say as to when the game gets released, as they can not put any pressure of the "Look for another publisher unless you release now" crap. They get no credit for the game except for being able to draw pretty pictures for ads and make pretty boxes for cds to go in.
It also means SOE has no legal claim to the game if it fails, unlike they did with VG. SOE is putting none of their money into GnH, therefore they have nothing to collect.
Does that help you understand, now?
Well, except for the fact that being a publisher means EXACTLY; bring a product to retail and marketing said product. SoE is still doing this. So, again, how exactly is PE being self published when SOE is doing the marketing and taking it to retail, which isby definition is publishing.If you bring a product to retail and do marketing its called publishing. Look it at up. You obviously are the one who is confused by small words.
It's pretty self explanatory. Since you still seem to be having difficulty with words I'll take another crack at explaining it(even though in the seven pages I read this has been explained in at least a dozen different ways already). PE made the decision that SOE will no longer be the publisher of the game, meaning that SOE can no longer set any deadlines, as any publisher normally can(this applies to books, games, anything that involves a publisher). However, PE is not retarded. Knowing that SOE is the excellent publisher they are, they will still be paying them INDEPENDENTLY for their work in advertisements and retail distribution. This by no means makes them the publisher of the game. Think of ANY advertisement you've ever seen on a website, hell, even on this very own website. You see advertisements for a bunch of games. Someone's getting paid for that advertisement space, does that mean that MMORPG.com is the official publisher of every game advertised here?
If SOE can do one thing right, it's marketing. Knowing this, and knowing the fact that a million nerds are still pissed about SWG, they decided to self-publish the game. This means they can employ the service of any marketing company to do the advertisements and retail distribution for them. They, as a now independent company, chose SOE.
For those still unclear, SOE will not be hosting any servers. SOE will not have any more say in the game as say...MMORPG.com. VG needed SOE's help in development, which is why they made that decision. G&H however, does not. They will develop the game themselves because they can, so for those people still thinking there are shady deals being made: it would make no sense for G&H to declare themselves independent in all aspects(publishing, developing, etc.) then turn over development to another company. PE knows they can make more money if they do everything themselves. It's all business, it's not about screwing the SWG nerds like everyone seems to think. Since it's more profitable for PE to do everything internally, seeing as no profits will be shared, they have no reason to give any say to SOE or turn over development to them.
This argument's long from dead, but I believe my reply to have at least wounded it severely.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Sigh, can we stop the SOE bashing for a sec, try reading between the lines. This is perpetuals first step into turning themselves into mmo developing kings , originally sony was going to take care of the tech support stuff and costumer relations because they were going to be running the servers but perpetual have taken a very brave and decided to handle it all themselves. Blizzard started off this way to with world of warcraft and look at them now!
I hope perpetuals future in the mmo world is a bright one and i wish them all the best
SOE IS STILL ENVOLVED WONT BUY IT
PLAIN SIMPLE AN CLEAR CUT
ANYONE WHO SIDES WITH SOE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM WILL NOT GET ANY RESPECT IN THE MMORPG WORLD ...
NOT NOW ...
NOT EVER ....
ANY GAME SOE ARE ENVOLVED WITH ARE FAILING AN WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO
PERPETUAL YOU"VE SEALED YOUR OWN FATE
The fanatics of Vanguard made the same statement before and got their wish.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
You have so much hate in SOE that even your nickname carries it. lol
Anyway, with the VSoH failure SOE made their name even worst. And now any company SOE has involvement is plagued with disgust.
And again.....the Vanguard failure wasn't even SOE's fault to begin with...
...*sigh* why do I bother....cheers!
