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Horrible Communitys --> Horrible MMO's
RonnyRulz
Member Posts: 479
I am not exactly sure as to WHY most MMO's are currently boring, crappy, or just plain not fun. It could be a million reasons, or just one, I do not know.
I do consider this as an option though: horrible community. This has a big chance to be the "killer" of most MMO's fun. Why?
Because it seems there are only two types of communities in MMO's now.
In the low populated games, "classic MMO" style games (whether a real classic like EQ/UO, or DAoC), and the like, you have a small community of elitist snobs, arrogant veterans, and hardcore fanatics.
In all of the newer MMO's, with thousands upon thousands of subscribers, the community is the exact opposite. Instead of being a tight-knit group of elitist veterans who have known each other for years, you have a community filled with people who don't want to get to know anyone for more than an hour. A lot of the community prefers to "solo" in an MMO. If you decide you want to group, there are usually enough people in high-pop servers to form a group. The problem? No one wants to talk.
What is worse than an MMO that is a ghosttown? An MMO filled with players, who never speak. To me, this is far worse than a ghost-town MMO. At least in that, if there are ANY other players, you can group. Playing WoW, CoX, EQ2, Vanguard, and even PvE in DAoC, people do not want to communicate. Perhaps some of them are just the "quiet type", but unless MMO's attract 99% "quiet type" players, this is not an excuse for a community that fails in being.....a community..........
Playing these new MMO's just get boring because of the community. I'd rather be grouped with an NPC who occassionally says the exact same text every 10 minutes than to be grouped with 5 others, all who never say a single word unless it has to deal with the current grinding of quests or monsters.
I remember playing the beta of LOTRO. Not only would the group RUSH through the epic-quest storyline, but I'd group with others for hours without them saying a single word. I've played CoX where all the players in the group just grind the npc's for XP, without a single ounce of emotion. Looking for groups in EQ2, DAoC (recently with the dead/dying population), or Vanguard was ridiculous.
Trying to find a group and asking around, you'd get these responses constantly.
1) I am about to get off, sorry. (Check later, and half of them are still on.
2) Sorry, I prefer to solo.
3) (No response)
4) In DAoC's case, they are a bot and the person is soloing with their bot.
5) You form a group, but the members leave shortly after, go AFK for excessive amounts of times, or "have to help their guild."
If you are actually able to get a group, the chat tab looks something like this....
You hit An Orc for 12 damage!
You hit An Orc for 16 damage!
AnotherPlayer hits an Orc for 18 damage!
You: Want to group?
/invite AnotherPlayer
(AnotherPlayer may or may not say thanks or hello.)
You hit An Orc for 15 damage!
You hit An Orc for 13 damage!
You miss!
You hit An Orc for 12 damage!
GroupMember1: Anyone have a DD buff?
GroupMember2 (without talking) casts a buff spell.
You hit An Orc for 12 damage!
You hit An Orc for 12 damage!
You miss!
You hit An Orc for 16 damage!
You hit An Orc for 15 damage!
You hit An Orc for 13 damage!
You miss!
(Several hours later)
GroupMember2: Well, thanks for the group, cya.
GroupMember3: Yea, I'm gonna go too, cya.
GroupMember1: Bye.
The MMO community is rather a small population of elitist snobs and old-school veterans, or players who prefer to solo and never speak in groups.
I remember having a BLAST in Ultima Online. More fun than I've had in any video game EVER. Why? I go back to the game today, as well as the "classic" free servers. It's not the same, although the gameplay is still fun. Why is it not the same? Because of the community. The classic free servers have elitist snobs on them, and after 5 years of regular OSI Ultima Online, all of my friends had quit, and I was the only one left. The community was no longer bursting with players (New and Old alike). The populations lowered, and on classic servers the population was centered on specific areas and PvP (boring, I never liked PK's.)
When UO was in its prime, the sense of community made the game one of the greatest enjoyments for video gaming. Meeting a random person who repairs your armor, then befriending them, traveling with them to whatever they were going to do before meeting you, and ending up at the end of the day sparring in a massive guild castle with an entire guild walking around in it, giving it life. Then spending the entire next two weeks with the guild and your new friend, joining in on the 50v50 guild war against the other guild and their castle. Having a big rememberance of the event because you hit GrandMaster (max skill level) while sparring inbetween the guild war fights.
Perhaps it's my fault? I am not the incredibly accepting, friendly, stupid, talkative, reckless young man I once was. In UO, i'd meet someone, and since I was 13-16 at the time, they'd instantly become my best friend (or worst enemy). I am still very talkative and friendly, but nowhere near the same as the 13 year olds I meet in MMO's. I actually enjoy grouping with young teenagers in MMO's because of their recklessness, stupidity, youthful arrogance and vigor, and friendliness. It brings to me remembrance of what I was like as a young, ignorant kid :P
Or perhaps the MMO community has changed drastically? Perhaps the once thriving community of UO was destroyed by the WoW Casual Soloer who wanted to play an MMO SINGLEPLAYER or the WoW casual player who just wants to GRIND through the quests to achieve the XP, completely forsaking the community part of the MMO experience, turning it into a number crunching game (PROGRESS QUEST).
Is it a sad world for the MMO community when an MMO veteran enjoys the company of 13 year olds over everyone else, because they are the ONLY players who will actually speak? Guilds are good, but it is very difficult for some players to find one, especially if they are picky. I had ONE guild in DAoC, and I loved it, because it brought a sense of community to the game. The elitists though, which were almost anyone outside my guild, drove me away from the game. Ironic because I am a veteran of DAoC, since beta, and consider these players "Elitist" when they didn't enter the game until after me...lol. Yet still, it is their attitude.
Perhaps this is just my perspective? I am open ears to hear anyone's alternative experience to the "Elitist or Mute Soloer" mentality that I have on MMO communities.
Comments
It seems like the MMO community today is more interested in playing PROGRESS QUEST than about what makes a good MMO (a thriving community.)
You know what an MMO is without the Massively Multiplayer Community? PROGRESS QUEST. That's all it is.
MMO's were never fun for the game mechanics of Progress Quest. They were fun because of the thriving community.
i totally agree, it's the community that makes an mmorpg, a great example is that i was bored, and saw the dungeon runner add on the main page, i thought "heck, it's free, why not?" so i downloaded it, thinking id kill a couple hours, and when i logged on, the game itself was pretty lame, very diablo esque, but the global chat was very lively, and i had a great time experiencing the community. even thought the game itself stunk, the community was it's redeeming light, and turned what would have been another lump of memory that wasted several hours of my life into a fun time!
Yup, i agree 100%.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
See you could have just posted what you said in your 2nd post instead the really long first one. You'd have probably gotten more replies by now
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I would be interested in hearing from all MMO players who are guild-heavy on these forums as to what they feel the community would be like if it were not for their chosen guild/clan/etc. I can see some players disagree with me that the community is not "Elitist or Mute Soloer" only, but I have a strong feeling those people will be involved in a guild, which brings community to a game.
I have never been a part of guilds in MMO's. I've always been about random chatting and encounters and friends lists.
Thanks for the comment, it is good to see that I am not crazy lol, but that it really is the community that makes or breaks an MMO.
this site has a horrible community so what does that say? noob/childish mods, and no editors for their articles.
maybe the mmo community just sucks now. with some new games hopefully we can get a breath of fresh air in the genre... thinking PotBS
die.
Yea, but it didn't occur to me to say that until AFTER I wrote all of that...lol.
If only I thought, "Hmm, progress quest!" before I started writing.
This is what happends when they build games without thought of social interaction.
Look on the games today, they are all "huge" on storytelling and grinding be it mobs or quests, no need to talk, no need to interact, no need to depend on anyone.
With the grind comes silence
I've never experienced any of these problems.
Maybe its your attitude, just the way you refer to close knit groups as being elitist, no wonder people don't like you. Making friends in MMOs is no different than making friends in real life.. maybe its not the games thats your problem
anyways, just a thought
I don't play MMO's to make friends, I like MMO's because its more of a challenge playing an rpg AGAINST other players. I look at the community as targets or a means to an end.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I would be interested in hearing from all MMO players who are guild-heavy on these forums as to what they feel the community would be like if it were not for their chosen guild/clan/etc. I can see some players disagree with me that the community is not "Elitist or Mute Soloer" only, but I have a strong feeling those people will be involved in a guild, which brings community to a game.
I have never been a part of guilds in MMO's. I've always been about random chatting and encounters and friends lists.
Thanks for the comment, it is good to see that I am not crazy lol, but that it really is the community that makes or breaks an MMO.
By the way mate , i am tottaly with you , and agree on every word you said.
I am at this moment in very good guild in LOTRO , but I know what it means to be a wanderer. Heck i quit WOW for that very reason.
Why pay money to play online game when people are just quiet as NPCs ( with diference that NPCs were actually smarter ) ?
I dont know mate. I play MMOs because i like to game , and i like the social interaction.
But in this case you lose on both fields - MMOs have poorer gameplay than single player games , and there is almost no social element ....
Go figure
When I come home from work, I am too tired for PvP. I mostly do it on weekend, when I am drunken.
So you are only a worthly opponent for me, when I am drunken.
Two things...
First is the guild. A good guild makes or breaks the game's community. Sure, 99% of the people on your server might be idiots but as long as you're in a guild with the 1% that aren't life is good. Good guilds tend to be somewhat restrictive in their recruitment - look beyond the guilds that take all comers for the ones with quality people (who usually don't open recruit, or at the very least not in-game).
Second is voice chat. If your game doesn't support it (and it doesn't sound like it does), get Ventrilo and use it. Believe me on some servers the trick is getting people to shut up.
and as a bonus third keep a friends list. There comes a point in every MMO I've played so far where you, if you keep at it, advance beyond the rank-and-file crowd in whatever style of play you prefer. At this point, aside from your guild, people from your friends list will form the overwhelming majority of your group slots. When you play with the same people all the time, whether you're guilded with them or not, you do get to know them, and be chatty and all that.
To talk alone in public is not too bad. I usually do it XDD
It's true, most of MMORPGs today are boring me because most of the people doesn't talk (to shout repetitively offers for your goods to trade them isn't to talk). In other cases, people just talk about other ways to improve their PVP skills, in order to add this 2% to critical hits when you are doing blah, blah, blah, blah.... etc
Where are the communicative people that you find while they are trying to group to do that quest, and you spend several hours with them doing quests, talking and whatever....?
But if u caught me in a game u would probably smile
I never said people don't like me. Quite the contrary, everyone likes me. Both IRL and in games, I am a very friendly and talkative person, and in games I am always very skilled and "on it". If I'm a tank, you won't find anyone dying unless I die first. If I'm a cleric, everyone is healed unto I'm rather OOM or I die.
Do not assume that I think ALL close knit groups are elitist. When you assume, you make a donkey of yourself. It IS the gaming community that is the problem, because everyone is too busy on grinding quests or mobs to know what community means. Rather this, or they are all 5 year vets of DAoC who have been playing with the same people for years, whom are 90% elitists who bark and snap at any new player. Elitists do exist, especially in these small games. Elitists are almost always close knit groups, because that's a big part of what being elitist means... excluding all others outside of your small group.
As for the "Get a guild, VOIP, or friends list, it'll solve the problem!" For one, no one should be forced to be in a guild. This is especially hard for those who don't want to join the first guild that comes along. I am very picky with my guilds, and for good reasons. I do not want to join a guild run by a 12 year old, or one who are no more than 3 members. I don't play MMO's to make friends, I play MMO's to play a video game that HAS a community.
If I wanted community and friendship, I'd go spend time IRL. If I wanted a game, I'd go play a singleplayer game. If I want both at the same time, which is a unique experience all together, I'd play an MMO. Sadly, MMO's are just poorly designed singleplayer games because they lack a community.
In an MMO, I do not desire a deep friendship or a long-lasting relationship. All I want is a community in which I can interact with, group with, and maybe join a guild and consistently play with. Not so much people to play the game WITH, but playing the game WITH people. The difference is that I play a multiplayer game that feels ALIVE, as opposed to playing a game solely for the community. I usually play multiplayer games only with my close IRL friends and family. A community that makes the game feel alive that we can occassionally interact with makes it even more fun. It is very fun to make a group and at the end of the day say to your IRL friends "That guy was pretty cool.", "That felt like more of an adventure thanks to that person." or "Wow, that guy was such a newb! Can you believe that happened?" ......or whatever makes for a laugh or fun adventure.
Thanks everyone for your replies, I enjoy reading other's opinions on this subject.
Perhaps the biggest reason today's MMO's are lacking in community is what a lot of posters here are saying: that today's MMO's are too focused on storylines, quests, etc.
I know that in UO, you never had quests or storylines. It was an open-ended world where you did whatever the heck you or anyone else wanted to do. THE PLAYER created the adventure, which lead to a good community. (Excluding PK's and Thieves for most players of course)
One of the problems is balancing the game in relation to social interaction. If you make the game too group-heavy and group-important, then you will alienate newer players because people will become more elitist. They will form their own specific list of acceptable group members, and will only play with them, because it is too risky to group with someone you aren't sure of. But if you make the game a SOLO game, then you will alienate players from each other, because people will see it as easier to solo than to group.
Here is one of my theories...that human gamers (as opposed to raccoon gamers) must be guided as to what they should do, and encouraged/discouraged along the way.
What is sad is that the majority of the community must be forced in a way, and TOLD what to do, so that they can enjoy themselves. It is rather ironic that humans are suppose to be the most intelligent creatures on Earth, yet they must betold what to do, or else they will not be able to enjoy themselves. If you don't tell them and force them to group, they will solo the game, getting bored very quickly. If you don't tell them and force them to decide for themselves what to do instead of blindly following quest-grinding, then they will mindlessly grind quests, crunching numbers until they are bored.
You basically have to tell them, "Don't solo, but groups aren't that important." or else they will bore themselves and quit your MMO. People are obviously not very intelligent, and so you have to make a game that allows them freedom to do what they want, but that guides them to what they will find is the most fun, but allows enough freedom where all tastes and play styles can exist. Not forcing groups, but discouraging soloing, yet not enough where people cannot solo.
I don't know how to do it, but UO did it. It gave players total freedom, encouraged them to group, discourage soloing, but you COULD solo if you wanted to. It told them what to do and forced them into one way: "Do whatever you want!" but guided them along the way "You can solo if you want, but grouping is a lot better for you."
You make an MMO that is completely soloable, and people will do nothing but solo, making it a singleplayer game.
You make an MMO that is heavily dependent on groups, and the more you make groups important, the more people will become elitist and too picky on groups.
I could write an entire book on the social psychology of MMO's, lol.
What MMO developers need to do is hire a sociologist or someone of the type to help them develop their game. You must understand that humans in groups must be guided in a specific way, with certain limitations and freedoms, or else they will play the game the opposite of how it is intended to be played.
Well, IMHO they need to build worlds instead of themeparks. Worlds where player can do more than just whack-em-sap-em-loot-em...
If the game is all about the grind and combat, thats the layers you get, the ones that only go combat-wombat out there...
So, they need to build a game that offers more, and has the game mechanics that makes all players be part of the world and eachother. Games need game mechanics for people to look outside the grind, and find a good time just hanging out in a game and do other things.
But ya know how it is... Offer more than combat-wombat in a MMORPG, and the MMORPG.com forum trolls get their knickers in a knot and yell "we dun wan no Teh SIMS game herez!!"
I never said people don't like me. Quite the contrary, everyone likes me. Both IRL and in games, I am a very friendly and talkative person, and in games I am always very skilled and "on it". If I'm a tank, you won't find anyone dying unless I die first. If I'm a cleric, everyone is healed unto I'm rather OOM or I die.
Do not assume that I think ALL close knit groups are elitist. When you assume, you make a donkey of yourself. It IS the gaming community that is the problem, because everyone is too busy on grinding quests or mobs to know what community means. Rather this, or they are all 5 year vets of DAoC who have been playing with the same people for years, whom are 90% elitists who bark and snap at any new player. Elitists do exist, especially in these small games. Elitists are almost always close knit groups, because that's a big part of what being elitist means... excluding all others outside of your small group.
As for the "Get a guild, VOIP, or friends list, it'll solve the problem!" For one, no one should be forced to be in a guild. This is especially hard for those who don't want to join the first guild that comes along. I am very picky with my guilds, and for good reasons. I do not want to join a guild run by a 12 year old, or one who are no more than 3 members. I don't play MMO's to make friends, I play MMO's to play a video game that HAS a community.
If I wanted community and friendship, I'd go spend time IRL. If I wanted a game, I'd go play a singleplayer game. If I want both at the same time, which is a unique experience all together, I'd play an MMO. Sadly, MMO's are just poorly designed singleplayer games because they lack a community.
In an MMO, I do not desire a deep friendship or a long-lasting relationship. All I want is a community in which I can interact with, group with, and maybe join a guild and consistently play with. Not so much people to play the game WITH, but playing the game WITH people. The difference is that I play a multiplayer game that feels ALIVE, as opposed to playing a game solely for the community. I usually play multiplayer games only with my close IRL friends and family. A community that makes the game feel alive that we can occassionally interact with makes it even more fun. It is very fun to make a group and at the end of the day say to your IRL friends "That guy was pretty cool.", "That felt like more of an adventure thanks to that person." or "Wow, that guy was such a newb! Can you believe that happened?" ......or whatever makes for a laugh or fun adventure.
Thanks everyone for your replies, I enjoy reading other's opinions on this subject.
Is DaoC basicly what your talking about?
I've never had an issue with finding groups to quest or instance no matter which game your referring to. DaoC has clicks of coarse, whats wrong with that. just because people have been playign together for a long time and have put alot of time into their characters and/or guild doesn't mean their elitest. At that point in the game, why would they want to associate with a lowbie like yourself?
Just because High Level Characters/Guilds don't want to help you, chat with you, be your buddy.. doesn't make them elitist. What you say your looking for.. a community to interact with, group with or join a guild.. that exist in every MMO on the market.
No to everything you said. You're wrong in every way.
So much so that this post doesn't even deserve a reply.
Welcome to the ignore list where the illogical go.
The End
I have to say that even if your game is the best at combat, trading, and whatnot it doesn't make your experience truly stick in your mind at all. You group just to complete some arbitrary, meaningless task and you don't group to meet new people and experience the content of the game with them. I am very interested to hear some of the views that people have in building a community where most of the people socialize and interact with their environments. To make it fun in grouping with random people and not limit them with having to be certain specs or builds, and to make the game more than a large chat program.
So I ask:
*What makes the social part of the game worth it?
* What makes people want to band together for a cause? (not just for a new shiny either)
* How to make and implement a game that helps to promote people talking and grouping? (free- grouping , not forced!)
No to everything you said. You're wrong in every way.
So much so that this post doesn't even deserve a reply.
Welcome to the ignore list where the illogical go.
The End
The problems nothing to do with MMO communities, its that your a Douche
actually hes right.
do you even know what a douch is?, if you do thats pretty disgusting, why would you call someone that?
anyways MMO communities are bland, meaning all the people care about is profit for themselves and the newest armor.
thats why i shifted to roleplaying communities, but then roleplaying communities are to the point where they are TOO uptight, meaning someone will put you on ignore or not let you group with them...ever, because you roleplay an evil rogue.
while i understand personalities have consequences this is a game, why the hell would i want playermade consequences?
iv had horrible experiences on mostly every MMORPG of trying to find 5 more people to help me with a quest update.
even worse was when i was trying to complete an epic quest in EQ2 (the splitpaw saga) i cant tell you how many weeks i ran around shouting "Splitpaw raid!, levels such and such!" to get a raid going and you know what? i never completed that damn quest. i finally got a raid up but we all know about PuRs (pick up raids).
and there is a LOT wrong with just playing with one group of people. for one it destroys the community because if you get in your group, then the new guy you wont let group with you must find his own group and so on, until eventually no community action starts happening. and yes, this kind of thing does happen, all too often.
i also discourage not joining a guild for its lack of population, for one, how in the hell do you expect a guild to get started? with 30 members?, i'd join a guild for their goals, structure, rules, and people. but not quantity, quality.
something really must be done about raids and grouping. in all games. quests also need to be looked at. its not so much what the quests have you do, its how your supposed to do them. it seems when people made these group NEEDED quests they just thought everyone in the virtual world would be helpfull and lend you a hand just for the sake of doing it. not really. PuRs are pure horror to even attempt, past the long waiting time you will have to do to gather all those people spontanously, your raid will probly be clueless and suck. PuGs are find however. 6 people are easy enough to manage so i dont see why people wouldnt use a PuG.
no MMO out right now is that hard, find a healer, tank, and 4 spot fillers and your good to go.