Ok I can see eye-to-eye with you about the talking about it on mmorpg.com. And I agree that he shouldn't have posted it on a website. I can come that far.
And I can even say that you make a point that he should have edited the comments once he realized that they were in the hands of the general public. It was very immature, and no it doesn't look good on GOA. I think they only targeted AoC because they were across from them as one caption said. So yeah.... it wasn't good natured humor and it shouldn't have been in the public domain. My defense was that the comments were made on his private space, but you are right I have to admit. As soon as he put them in the public space he should have edited them. You win. haha. The first and only time I'll tell you that. Just because your argument didn't spiral into flaming, and you made some valid points. And for the record I didn't say it "absolved" him. I still said it was immature. I just think his expected audience was the right one. He didn't go posting them in the AoC forums or on a general forum. (even though they made it there, and if he saw that coming [which he should have] then he should have changed the captions)
I honestly did not figure my comments would generate a debate. I will even go so far as say it would have been a none issue and I would agree with you that it was innocent fun except it still has not been changed. Now to be fair this person may not know the extent his captions have angered AoC fan boys. I would expect that he has gotten some email about it though. Hopefully he learns from his mistake and makes it a bit more light hearted next time.
You don't have to tell me I win. I am here for the dialog and debate that happens. I have been proven wrong just like everyone else on these boards. It is only through debate and questioning that we can affirm our reason. I look forward to more debates with you.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by atziluth
I honestly did not figure my comments would generate a debate. I will even go so far as say it would have been a none issue and I would agree with you that it was innocent fun except it still has not been changed. Now to be fair this person may not know the extent his captions have angered AoC fan boys. I would expect that he has gotten some email about it though. Hopefully he learns from his mistake and makes it a bit more light hearted next time.
You don't have to tell me I win. I am here for the dialog and debate that happens. I have been proven wrong just like everyone else on these boards. It is only through debate and questioning that we can affirm our reason. I look forward to more debates with you.
It was the way in which "BattleKruse" posted them on the AoC boards with his "tainted" outlook on Funcom as a whole which is what pissed people off. Search "BattleKruse's" post history to confirm a hate for the game, the comments made by the GOA only fuelled, his attemps at further trying to incite flame and false information. I thought it was a dig plain and simply, after reading the whole thread, I still do.
I honestly did not figure my comments would generate a debate. I will even go so far as say it would have been a none issue and I would agree with you that it was innocent fun except it still has not been changed. Now to be fair this person may not know the extent his captions have angered AoC fan boys. I would expect that he has gotten some email about it though. Hopefully he learns from his mistake and makes it a bit more light hearted next time.
You don't have to tell me I win. I am here for the dialog and debate that happens. I have been proven wrong just like everyone else on these boards. It is only through debate and questioning that we can affirm our reason. I look forward to more debates with you.
It was the way in which "BattleKruse" posted them on the AoC boards with his "tainted" outlook on Funcom as a whole which is what pissed people off. Search "BattleKruse's" post history to confirm a hate for the game, the comments made by the GOA only fuelled, his attemps at further trying to incite flame and false information. I thought it was a dig plain and simply, after reading the whole thread, I still do.
The comments themselves. Nah. The way that the pictures with the captions were linked to, knowing the results. Yes.
Developers are human as we've found out, and after seeing this on both sides, I'll lighten my feelings towards Funcom's Director guy's comment about WAR's reason to push their release date back being "bullshit" since they both were the same kind of dig.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
The only mistake the GOA representative made was not realising that a lot of people are idiots and take jokes seriously.
In fact, I refuse to call it a joke, because it wasn't even that. He was taking the piss. There is a huge difference between taking the piss and attacking/defaming.
Examples I'll use because we should all recognise them:
Calling another companies reasons for pushing back their release date "bullshit" is attacking/defaming. It is directly saying that Mythic are liars, hence defaming their character as a company.
Posting a series of pictures, all with light-hearted captions, which make mild jabs at other companies (note the jab at Blizzard on the employee playing WAR photo), and which are presented in a light-hearted fashion is a joke. Whether you find it funny or not is irrelevant, it isn't an attack and shouldn't be taken as one.
It's the difference between calling your mum a fat disgusting mess and making a "yo momma" joke. You don't have to find yo momma jokes funny (I don't), but you still shouldn't be offended by them or take them as insults on your mothers integrity.
GOA representatives shouldn't have to cover themselves for other people not understanding the basics of social interaction.
And before anyone thinks this is a WAR fanboy sticking up for his side, it isn't. I don't like GOA, until they show that they have changed their ways from DAoC I will still not like them. I'm not sticking up for WAR, I'm sticking up for the rights of comedy.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by mistermental
GOA representatives shouldn't have to cover themselves for other people not understanding the basics of social interaction.
He should also be mindfull that many people from many different nationalities and different cultures and backgrounds take things differently. The guy who captioned the pictures knew full well where they would end up, somewhere exactly like this.
Then you get a warhammer online fanatic, with the flipside of his nature being a Funcom, AO & AoC hater readily able to take said pictures and put them to fanboy use in a post with a twist. I can't blame him for that. There is a difference between taking the piss, a joke, and a dig. Funny how the photographer chose to snap the Conan Thone at a quiet period, it wasnt even the whole set, and that particular comment was aimed perfectly and taken and executed just right to incite flames.
The GOA should be mindful of the community at large, and you saying he shouldn't be responsible for writing the caption is like saying he shouldn't take any blame. No offense but your argument doesn't have any legs to stand on.
I couldn't see an Eidos guy doing that in reverse.
At the end of the day its about respect, kinda been both a bit cheesy in each corner. Atleast mmorpg.com remained impartial with the captions on their photo, check the big green banner out on this site and follow the links....
And before anyone thinks this is a WAR fanboy sticking up for his side, it isn't. I don't like GOA, until they show that they have changed their ways from DAoC I will still not like them. I'm not sticking up for WAR, I'm sticking up for the rights of comedy.
Then you are doing a poor job. Please break down the caption into the comical parts and educate us all. Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another. Comedy shows the humor in truth good and bad. That caption was not truthful and not funny.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Originally posted by atziluth That caption was not truthful and not funny.
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Not really...
Did funcom have a function game there... yes. So lie #1.
Did Funcom have a busy booth including parts of other booths (microsoft).. yes. Lie #2.
This is not debatable or matter for opinion. Those are facts which you would know if you read up on Leipzig. Anytime you want another verbal beat down let me know.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Originally posted by atziluth That caption was not truthful and not funny.
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Not really...
Did funcom have a function game there... yes. So lie #1.
Did Funcom have a busy booth including parts of other booths (microsoft).. yes. Lie #2.
This is not debatable or matter for opinion. Those are facts which you would know if you read up on Leipzig. Anytime you want another verbal beat down let me know.
When i said your opinion, I was referring to the bit that was actually your opinion...
Next time I'll make sure to bold and color the words for you.
Originally posted by atziluth That caption was not truthful and not funny.
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Not really...
Did funcom have a function game there... yes. So lie #1.
Did Funcom have a busy booth including parts of other booths (microsoft).. yes. Lie #2.
This is not debatable or matter for opinion. Those are facts which you would know if you read up on Leipzig. Anytime you want another verbal beat down let me know.
'Functioning' can be relative. Funcom limited its pvp to only a couple people at once, and showed a partially scripted siege. There were some very noticable slowdowns during the footage. Naturally that is not a complete system because they are aiming for much more by release. Mythic has shown several dozen players at once in open environments. Funcom has limited the scope of giving players hands on and the number of people that can fight simultaneously because they don't feel it is quite ready yet. So comparitively speaking, it could be considered not entirely functioning.
It could be argued that if they can even boot up the game at all, that it is 'functioning'. So you must ask yourself, what does functioning exactly mean? A term like that has to be qualified with exactly how much constitutes functioning. If you can turn a device on, like say a vacuum cleaner, but it only picks up about 10% of the dirt it should, is it still functioning? Or malfunctioning?
As for the second point, I will not say anything about, since I was not there to see the crowd over the whole event.
As for the comment of funny.... lol. You sure do seem to make a habit of telling people what is and isn't funny. You realize you don't actually determine such things, right?
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by siresper
'Functioning' can be relative. Funcom limited its pvp to only a couple people at once, and showed a partially scripted siege. There were some very noticable slowdowns during the footage. Naturally that is not a complete system because they are aiming for much more by release. Mythic has shown several dozen players at once in open environments. Funcom has limited the scope of giving players hands on and the number of people that can fight simultaneously because they don't feel it is quite ready yet. So comparitively speaking, it could be considered not entirely functioning. It could be argued that if they can even boot up the game at all, that it is 'functioning'. So you must ask yourself, what does functioning exactly mean? A term like that has to be qualified with exactly how much constitutes functioning. If you can turn a device on, like say a vacuum cleaner, but it only picks up about 10% of the dirt it should, is it still functioning? Or malfunctioning? As for the second point, I will not say anything about, since I was not there to see the crowd over the whole event. As for the comment of funny.... lol. You sure do seem to make a habit of telling people what is and isn't funny. You realize you don't actually determine such things, right?
Considering your opinion on the events you mentioned were done beind closed doors makes your statement null and void!
No slow downs were noticeable in any of the PvP that game from the booth floor
We were at GC 2007 and were able to play AOC for around one hour bevor the server crashed. Working Game ? Thats highly debatable.The simply fact that we were able to play AOC for an hour at the biggest gaming show (185.000 visitor) will tell you how bussy there booth was. They had around 10 computers and in front of each there were about 2-3 guys. If you wanted to play the big games of the show like WAR or WOW you had to stand in the line for an hour.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Maverick0815
We were at GC 2007 and were able to play AOC for around one hour bevor the server crashed. Working Game ? Thats highly debatable.The simply fact that we were able to play AOC for an hour at the biggest gaming show (185.000 visitor) shoud tell you how bussy thier booth was. They had around 10 computers and in front of each there were about 2-3 guys. If you wanted to play the big games of the show like WAR or WOW you had to stand in the line for an hour.
no offence again, but thats suprising seen as thought the German Press helped in voting AoC for their awards as best online game, seeing as popular you say WAR and WoW were, I guess popularity doesn't sway level minded folks - especially games in BETA and running hot all day - good to see!
Anyway, kinda not really the point of the thread is it, nevertheless, first I have heard.
And before anyone thinks this is a WAR fanboy sticking up for his side, it isn't. I don't like GOA, until they show that they have changed their ways from DAoC I will still not like them. I'm not sticking up for WAR, I'm sticking up for the rights of comedy.
Then you are doing a poor job. Please break down the caption into the comical parts and educate us all. Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another. Comedy shows the humor in truth good and bad. That caption was not truthful and not funny.
Comedy has to be truthful? What? Does it hell. Satire has to be based on truth, otherwise it can't be satirical. But are you saying that any Englishman, Irishman, Welshman jokes are at all based on truth? And what about surrealist comedy?
And the very idea of breaking down a caption into it's comical parts is ridiculous. It is a caption, a one liner in comedy terms.
"Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another."
No, what is comical/comedy is always comedy, whether you find it funny or not is subjective. For example, Evan Almighty is a comedy film, but it doesn't make me laugh and I don't find it funny. That doesn't stop it from being comedy, it is just a bad comedy.
Even if you don't find something funny, you should be able to recognise that it is an attempt to be funny, and therefore you shouldn't take it seriously, even if you don't find it funny.
Whatever you say, somebody somewhere is going to be offended. Pandering to people who get offended leads to an intensely boring world.
'Functioning' can be relative. Funcom limited its pvp to only a couple people at once, and showed a partially scripted siege. There were some very noticable slowdowns during the footage. Naturally that is not a complete system because they are aiming for much more by release. Mythic has shown several dozen players at once in open environments. Funcom has limited the scope of giving players hands on and the number of people that can fight simultaneously because they don't feel it is quite ready yet. So comparitively speaking, it could be considered not entirely functioning. It could be argued that if they can even boot up the game at all, that it is 'functioning'. So you must ask yourself, what does functioning exactly mean? A term like that has to be qualified with exactly how much constitutes functioning. If you can turn a device on, like say a vacuum cleaner, but it only picks up about 10% of the dirt it should, is it still functioning? Or malfunctioning? As for the second point, I will not say anything about, since I was not there to see the crowd over the whole event. As for the comment of funny.... lol. You sure do seem to make a habit of telling people what is and isn't funny. You realize you don't actually determine such things, right?
Considering your opinion on the events you mentioned were done beind closed doors makes your statement null and void!
No slow downs were noticeable in any of the PvP that game from the booth floor
A fan thinks that all statements that make HIS game look bad are null and void? What a complete surprise!! I was expecting you to support me
All statements I made were in regard to the public AoC booth. Which according to some of the people that were actually there (which wasn't you, and therefore renders all your opinions null and void by your own argument), was comparitively dead and unpopular.
But hey... a couple very limited press behind closed doors thought the game brought some new stuff to the table. What that has to do with the actual popularity of the open public booth and the crowd there is anybodies guess. Since the two occured in different places. Funcom could have had ZERO people in the public booth and still win the award, simply because it showed new footage behind closed doors to the press only.
As to that thread link you posted (hey does this mean you've started reading the warhammer boards and info on warhammer now? welcome aboard) it seems to be a lot about that warhammer didn't bring much new material to the event. I agree that AoC brought more new stuff because it has held out so long to show pvp and siege footage. But I don't see what this has to do with the actual traffic at the booth. Aoc's siege stuff, the public couldn't see,touch or play. Their pvp stuff was limited to a small handful of people at once (4 by 4 only i believe?). I don't know about you but if I'm the general public and I can choose between playing large scale pvp with lots of people (this IS an mmorpg after all.... not a LAN party FPS, which even then supports more than 8 players max) or a small arena match with a couple people.... I'm going to pick the big one with lots of people at once.
Keep focusing on the limited press only stuff though. Which even funcom itself admitted isn't complete.
'Functioning' can be relative. Funcom limited its pvp to only a couple people at once, and showed a partially scripted siege. There were some very noticable slowdowns during the footage. Naturally that is not a complete system because they are aiming for much more by release. Mythic has shown several dozen players at once in open environments. Funcom has limited the scope of giving players hands on and the number of people that can fight simultaneously because they don't feel it is quite ready yet. So comparitively speaking, it could be considered not entirely functioning. It could be argued that if they can even boot up the game at all, that it is 'functioning'. So you must ask yourself, what does functioning exactly mean? A term like that has to be qualified with exactly how much constitutes functioning. If you can turn a device on, like say a vacuum cleaner, but it only picks up about 10% of the dirt it should, is it still functioning? Or malfunctioning? As for the second point, I will not say anything about, since I was not there to see the crowd over the whole event. As for the comment of funny.... lol. You sure do seem to make a habit of telling people what is and isn't funny. You realize you don't actually determine such things, right?
Are you stalking me Siresper?
Nice try on trying to obscure the issue. The game was playable. The build that was brought to Leipzig was functioning as inended. If you want to argue about features or function based on a complete product neither WAR or AoC are functional as they both are not complete yet. Either way it was a lie in the statement.
You obviously missed the point where I said humor is subjective. Did some people find this caption funny? yes. Everyone determines what is funny... so in a sense you are partially wrong.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Comedy has to be truthful? What? Does it hell. Satire has to be based on truth, otherwise it can't be satirical. But are you saying that any Englishman, Irishman, Welshman jokes are at all based on truth? And what about surrealist comedy? Yes there is an element of truth in those jokes. Truth != being PC. They blow those truthful elements into comical proportions. And the very idea of breaking down a caption into it's comical parts is ridiculous. It is a caption, a one liner in comedy terms. "They were directly opposite us. Our booth was bigger and busier than theirs. And our game worked. " Really this is funny? As one liners go how would you rate this? Sounds more like a normal statement then a one liner. "Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another." No, what is comical/comedy is always comedy, whether you find it funny or not is subjective. For example, Evan Almighty is a comedy film, but it doesn't make me laugh and I don't find it funny. That doesn't stop it from being comedy, it is just a bad comedy. Exactly who determines what is comedy? Just post his/her name here so I can ask some questions. I mean someone can label a brutal murder comedy... "Yes your honor I killed the guy... but it was hilarious!" right... Labeling something does not impart that labels meaning into the content. I guess when a studio labels a movie great... our opinions are subjective and have no bearing on if the movie is great. Even if you don't find something funny, you should be able to recognise that it is an attempt to be funny, and therefore you shouldn't take it seriously, even if you don't find it funny. Yes because the PC movement shows how tolerant our society is towards humor. Whatever you say, somebody somewhere is going to be offended. Pandering to people who get offended leads to an intensely boring world. I agree with you there to a point. The point is where your saying something that upsets the masses... then you have to pay attention to the people. You don't have to stop speaking... but you can suffer consequences.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
'Functioning' can be relative. Funcom limited its pvp to only a couple people at once, and showed a partially scripted siege. There were some very noticable slowdowns during the footage. Naturally that is not a complete system because they are aiming for much more by release. Mythic has shown several dozen players at once in open environments. Funcom has limited the scope of giving players hands on and the number of people that can fight simultaneously because they don't feel it is quite ready yet. So comparitively speaking, it could be considered not entirely functioning. It could be argued that if they can even boot up the game at all, that it is 'functioning'. So you must ask yourself, what does functioning exactly mean? A term like that has to be qualified with exactly how much constitutes functioning. If you can turn a device on, like say a vacuum cleaner, but it only picks up about 10% of the dirt it should, is it still functioning? Or malfunctioning? As for the second point, I will not say anything about, since I was not there to see the crowd over the whole event. As for the comment of funny.... lol. You sure do seem to make a habit of telling people what is and isn't funny. You realize you don't actually determine such things, right?
Are you stalking me Siresper?
I typically post in the threads at the top, and you post just about everywhere you can stick your head in. Chances are we are going to run into eachother again. I wouldn't let it go to your head. Any more and it might burst.
Nice try on trying to obscure the issue. The game was playable. The build that was brought to Leipzig was functioning as inended. If you want to argue about features or function based on a complete product neither WAR or AoC are functional as they both are not complete yet. Either way it was a lie in the statement.
I appreciate you proving my point like that. You are doing precisely what I said needed to be done - qualifying the bounds of what functional means. You defined it as 'playable for what it was intended', and that it 'doesn't include aspects of what was shown that should be there at release time'. With those constraints I would agree - AoC was functional.
But I think you are being a little bit too free on your use of the word 'what was intended'. Funcom could have just as easily intended to have a 1 v 1 duel showing off their pvp system. Or 1 player versus a bot controlled by a script (similar to how they controlled bots in the siege footage). But does that truly show pvp functioning? Or does it just show that they can cut off all the things that aren't functioning from the demonstration so that the demonstration is functioning for what it was intended?
I could be wrong on this but I don't think there are any more major changes to be done to the pvp in Warhammer. The build is stable, it can handle lots of simultaneous players, everyone can fight over from start to finish various goals. While there are probably lots of RvR stuff to still implement (I split RvR from pvp obviously), the raw pvp conflict itself (players fighting players) seems very complete. Is the game as a whole a complete product? Negative. But the pvp system appears to be. And its the pvp system that was demoed at both booths.
You obviously missed the point where I said humor is subjective. Did some people find this caption funny? yes. Everyone determines what is funny... so in a sense you are partially wrong.
Even when you are caught with your hands in the cookie jar you can't just admit it. Someone says its funny, you say its not, they say its subjective, you say they are wrong. If you agree now that humor is subjective... why did you give that other guy a hard time earlier?
I said that YOU do not determine what was funny. People as a whole do, I agree. But thats not what I said. I was not partially wrong, you just didn't read what I wrote correctly.
In the spirit of this thread the first comment was a joke. Hence the smiley turning into a heart.
As to the functioning argument lets be a bit more specific here. The GOA guy implied AoC didn't "work". Are you going to use the same subjective argument here as well or just admit the guy lied?
Again you failed to read... I was the FIRST one to say humor is subjective in this thread. I never told anyone that they were wrong about it being subjective but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Do you even read my posts or just make assumptions? I gave the guy a hard time because he claimed to be sticking up for the rights of comedy. I asked him to point out the comical elements and stated that humor should have an element of truth which the GOA caption had a lie. Honestly if you do not take the time to even read my posts why bother replying to me... just ignore me. I sad you were partially wrong because I am part of the whole just like you. We both have a hand in determining what is humor. So yes I do partially determine what is humor same as you and every other individual.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Note- I believe it was 3v3 , but i could be wrong.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
GOA is FTL anyways , if you live in europe please just play NA and refuse to play on GOA so mythic and EA will stop using a 3rd party to run servers - patches etc. Its so dumb. (unless all they will do is host servers but that has not been the history of it.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Note- I believe it was 3v3 , but i could be wrong.
Any idea of the setup they had at the Warhammer booth? How many people at once? I looked for about 20 minutes but couldn't find the info, got bored and stopped looking, heh.
Note- I believe it was 3v3 , but i could be wrong.
Any idea of the setup they had at the Warhammer booth? How many people at once? I looked for about 20 minutes but couldn't find the info, got bored and stopped looking, heh.
I think it was 12v12, or at least that is the amount they have been doing at other conventions and shows recently.
" Yes there is an element of truth in those jokes. Truth != being PC. They blow those truthful elements into comical proportions."
You mean for example, the truthful element that AoC's build was a bit buggy (as stated in several sources) blown up into comical proportions?
"
"They were directly opposite us. Our booth was bigger and busier than theirs. And our game worked. "
Really this is funny? As one liners go how would you rate this? Sounds more like a normal statement then a one liner."
Then you aren't reading the pacing properly. See, now you've made me go all English Language student on you. See those two full stops, which break the comment down into three sentences? Notice how they could have been commas and it would still have been a viable sentence? That's the pacing. It makes each sentence that follows appear to be more like an afterthought. And the three part structure is common amongst a lot of comedy, especially when the last sentence is so short. I really shouldn't have to go into this level of detail because it is blatantly a comedic structure just from looking at it, but there you go. Linguistically, it is in a joke format.
"
Exactly who determines what is comedy? Just post his/her name here so I can ask some questions. I mean someone can label a brutal murder comedy... "Yes your honor I killed the guy... but it was hilarious!" right... Labeling something does not impart that labels meaning into the content. I guess when a studio labels a movie great... our opinions are subjective and have no bearing on if the movie is great.
"
It is comedy when it is intended to make people laugh. Intention is the key. In Black Comedies you have a lot of people dying in funny ways often, but it is intended comedically. A murder is not comedic because it is a) not intended to make people laugh and b) done in real life, as a real action. Rape jokes are comedy, rape is not.
"
Yes because the PC movement shows how tolerant our society is towards humor.
"
Don't get me started on PC. Just...don't.
"
I agree with you there to a point. The point is where your saying something that upsets the masses... then you have to pay attention to the people. You don't have to stop speaking... but you can suffer consequences.
"
What we have here is the same as someone telling a dead baby joke, then someone else giving a video of the person telling a dead baby joke to a group for mothers who have just lost children. Of course they are going to be offended. Is that the fault of the person who told the joke? No, it's the fault of whichever muppet thought that it would be funny to show to the wrong people. Comedy IS subjective. It is meant for it's target audience and no more. The GOA representative did not say the joke to AoC people, idiots showed the joke to AoC people, who got offeneded (suprisingly).
Note- I believe it was 3v3 , but i could be wrong.
Any idea of the setup they had at the Warhammer booth? How many people at once? I looked for about 20 minutes but couldn't find the info, got bored and stopped looking, heh.
They had 36 machines 12 for the Starterzones and 24 running the Nordenwatch scenario in 12 vs 12. You had to wait ~ 1 hour to play 1 round in PVP.
You could play all the dwarf and orc professions, plus the healer and nuker types of empire and chaos.
Comments
You don't have to tell me I win. I am here for the dialog and debate that happens. I have been proven wrong just like everyone else on these boards. It is only through debate and questioning that we can affirm our reason.
I look forward to more debates with you. 
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
It was the way in which "BattleKruse" posted them on the AoC boards with his "tainted" outlook on Funcom as a whole which is what pissed people off. Search "BattleKruse's" post history to confirm a hate for the game, the comments made by the GOA only fuelled, his attemps at further trying to incite flame and false information. I thought it was a dig plain and simply, after reading the whole thread, I still do.
The comments themselves. Nah. The way that the pictures with the captions were linked to, knowing the results. Yes.It was the way in which "BattleKruse" posted them on the AoC boards with his "tainted" outlook on Funcom as a whole which is what pissed people off. Search "BattleKruse's" post history to confirm a hate for the game, the comments made by the GOA only fuelled, his attemps at further trying to incite flame and false information. I thought it was a dig plain and simply, after reading the whole thread, I still do.
Developers are human as we've found out, and after seeing this on both sides, I'll lighten my feelings towards Funcom's Director guy's comment about WAR's reason to push their release date back being "bullshit" since they both were the same kind of dig.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
The only mistake the GOA representative made was not realising that a lot of people are idiots and take jokes seriously.
In fact, I refuse to call it a joke, because it wasn't even that. He was taking the piss. There is a huge difference between taking the piss and attacking/defaming.
Examples I'll use because we should all recognise them:
Calling another companies reasons for pushing back their release date "bullshit" is attacking/defaming. It is directly saying that Mythic are liars, hence defaming their character as a company.
Posting a series of pictures, all with light-hearted captions, which make mild jabs at other companies (note the jab at Blizzard on the employee playing WAR photo), and which are presented in a light-hearted fashion is a joke. Whether you find it funny or not is irrelevant, it isn't an attack and shouldn't be taken as one.
It's the difference between calling your mum a fat disgusting mess and making a "yo momma" joke. You don't have to find yo momma jokes funny (I don't), but you still shouldn't be offended by them or take them as insults on your mothers integrity.
GOA representatives shouldn't have to cover themselves for other people not understanding the basics of social interaction.
And before anyone thinks this is a WAR fanboy sticking up for his side, it isn't. I don't like GOA, until they show that they have changed their ways from DAoC I will still not like them. I'm not sticking up for WAR, I'm sticking up for the rights of comedy.
He should also be mindfull that many people from many different nationalities and different cultures and backgrounds take things differently. The guy who captioned the pictures knew full well where they would end up, somewhere exactly like this.
Then you get a warhammer online fanatic, with the flipside of his nature being a Funcom, AO & AoC hater readily able to take said pictures and put them to fanboy use in a post with a twist. I can't blame him for that. There is a difference between taking the piss, a joke, and a dig. Funny how the photographer chose to snap the Conan Thone at a quiet period, it wasnt even the whole set, and that particular comment was aimed perfectly and taken and executed just right to incite flames.
The GOA should be mindful of the community at large, and you saying he shouldn't be responsible for writing the caption is like saying he shouldn't take any blame. No offense but your argument doesn't have any legs to stand on.
I couldn't see an Eidos guy doing that in reverse.
At the end of the day its about respect, kinda been both a bit cheesy in each corner. Atleast mmorpg.com remained impartial with the captions on their photo, check the big green banner out on this site and follow the links....
Then you are doing a poor job. Please break down the caption into the comical parts and educate us all. Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another. Comedy shows the humor in truth good and bad. That caption was not truthful and not funny.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Not really...Did funcom have a function game there... yes. So lie #1.
Did Funcom have a busy booth including parts of other booths (microsoft).. yes. Lie #2.
This is not debatable or matter for opinion. Those are facts which you would know if you read up on Leipzig. Anytime you want another verbal beat down let me know.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Not really...Did funcom have a function game there... yes. So lie #1.
Did Funcom have a busy booth including parts of other booths (microsoft).. yes. Lie #2.
This is not debatable or matter for opinion. Those are facts which you would know if you read up on Leipzig. Anytime you want another verbal beat down let me know.
When i said your opinion, I was referring to the bit that was actually your opinion...Next time I'll make sure to bold and color the words for you.
Matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong! SIT DOWN!
Not really...Did funcom have a function game there... yes. So lie #1.
Did Funcom have a busy booth including parts of other booths (microsoft).. yes. Lie #2.
This is not debatable or matter for opinion. Those are facts which you would know if you read up on Leipzig. Anytime you want another verbal beat down let me know.
'Functioning' can be relative. Funcom limited its pvp to only a couple people at once, and showed a partially scripted siege. There were some very noticable slowdowns during the footage. Naturally that is not a complete system because they are aiming for much more by release. Mythic has shown several dozen players at once in open environments. Funcom has limited the scope of giving players hands on and the number of people that can fight simultaneously because they don't feel it is quite ready yet. So comparitively speaking, it could be considered not entirely functioning.
It could be argued that if they can even boot up the game at all, that it is 'functioning'. So you must ask yourself, what does functioning exactly mean? A term like that has to be qualified with exactly how much constitutes functioning. If you can turn a device on, like say a vacuum cleaner, but it only picks up about 10% of the dirt it should, is it still functioning? Or malfunctioning?
As for the second point, I will not say anything about, since I was not there to see the crowd over the whole event.
As for the comment of funny.... lol. You sure do seem to make a habit of telling people what is and isn't funny. You realize you don't actually determine such things, right?
Considering your opinion on the events you mentioned were done beind closed doors makes your statement null and void!No slow downs were noticeable in any of the PvP that game from the booth floor
Nice attempt though, but I wont go into detail on this post I saw: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/145473 10% Vaccum FTW
We were at GC 2007 and were able to play AOC for around one hour bevor the server crashed. Working Game ? Thats highly debatable.The simply fact that we were able to play AOC for an hour at the biggest gaming show (185.000 visitor) will tell you how bussy there booth was. They had around 10 computers and in front of each there were about 2-3 guys. If you wanted to play the big games of the show like WAR or WOW you had to stand in the line for an hour.
no offence again, but thats suprising seen as thought the German Press helped in voting AoC for their awards as best online game, seeing as popular you say WAR and WoW were, I guess popularity doesn't sway level minded folks - especially games in BETA and running hot all day - good to see!
Anyway, kinda not really the point of the thread is it, nevertheless, first I have heard.
Whoa, fanbois from both sides finally showed their true colors.
Then you are doing a poor job. Please break down the caption into the comical parts and educate us all. Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another. Comedy shows the humor in truth good and bad. That caption was not truthful and not funny.
Comedy has to be truthful? What? Does it hell. Satire has to be based on truth, otherwise it can't be satirical. But are you saying that any Englishman, Irishman, Welshman jokes are at all based on truth? And what about surrealist comedy?
And the very idea of breaking down a caption into it's comical parts is ridiculous. It is a caption, a one liner in comedy terms.
"Since comedy is subjective that means what is comical to one person may not be to another."
No, what is comical/comedy is always comedy, whether you find it funny or not is subjective. For example, Evan Almighty is a comedy film, but it doesn't make me laugh and I don't find it funny. That doesn't stop it from being comedy, it is just a bad comedy.
Even if you don't find something funny, you should be able to recognise that it is an attempt to be funny, and therefore you shouldn't take it seriously, even if you don't find it funny.
Whatever you say, somebody somewhere is going to be offended. Pandering to people who get offended leads to an intensely boring world.
Considering your opinion on the events you mentioned were done beind closed doors makes your statement null and void!No slow downs were noticeable in any of the PvP that game from the booth floor
Nice attempt though, but I wont go into detail on this post I saw: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/145473 10% Vaccum FTW
A fan thinks that all statements that make HIS game look bad are null and void? What a complete surprise!! I was expecting you to support me
All statements I made were in regard to the public AoC booth. Which according to some of the people that were actually there (which wasn't you, and therefore renders all your opinions null and void by your own argument), was comparitively dead and unpopular.
But hey... a couple very limited press behind closed doors thought the game brought some new stuff to the table. What that has to do with the actual popularity of the open public booth and the crowd there is anybodies guess.
Since the two occured in different places. Funcom could have had ZERO people in the public booth and still win the award, simply because it showed new footage behind closed doors to the press only.
As to that thread link you posted (hey does this mean you've started reading the warhammer boards and info on warhammer now? welcome aboard) it seems to be a lot about that warhammer didn't bring much new material to the event. I agree that AoC brought more new stuff because it has held out so long to show pvp and siege footage. But I don't see what this has to do with the actual traffic at the booth. Aoc's siege stuff, the public couldn't see,touch or play. Their pvp stuff was limited to a small handful of people at once (4 by 4 only i believe?). I don't know about you but if I'm the general public and I can choose between playing large scale pvp with lots of people (this IS an mmorpg after all.... not a LAN party FPS, which even then supports more than 8 players max) or a small arena match with a couple people.... I'm going to pick the big one with lots of people at once.
Keep focusing on the limited press only stuff though. Which even funcom itself admitted isn't complete.
Nice try on trying to obscure the issue. The game was playable. The build that was brought to Leipzig was functioning as inended. If you want to argue about features or function based on a complete product neither WAR or AoC are functional as they both are not complete yet. Either way it was a lie in the statement.
You obviously missed the point where I said humor is subjective. Did some people find this caption funny? yes. Everyone determines what is funny... so in a sense you are partially wrong.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I typically post in the threads at the top, and you post just about everywhere you can stick your head in. Chances are we are going to run into eachother again. I wouldn't let it go to your head. Any more and it might burst.
Nice try on trying to obscure the issue. The game was playable. The build that was brought to Leipzig was functioning as inended. If you want to argue about features or function based on a complete product neither WAR or AoC are functional as they both are not complete yet. Either way it was a lie in the statement.
I appreciate you proving my point like that. You are doing precisely what I said needed to be done - qualifying the bounds of what functional means. You defined it as 'playable for what it was intended', and that it 'doesn't include aspects of what was shown that should be there at release time'. With those constraints I would agree - AoC was functional.
But I think you are being a little bit too free on your use of the word 'what was intended'. Funcom could have just as easily intended to have a 1 v 1 duel showing off their pvp system. Or 1 player versus a bot controlled by a script (similar to how they controlled bots in the siege footage). But does that truly show pvp functioning? Or does it just show that they can cut off all the things that aren't functioning from the demonstration so that the demonstration is functioning for what it was intended?
I could be wrong on this but I don't think there are any more major changes to be done to the pvp in Warhammer. The build is stable, it can handle lots of simultaneous players, everyone can fight over from start to finish various goals. While there are probably lots of RvR stuff to still implement (I split RvR from pvp obviously), the raw pvp conflict itself (players fighting players) seems very complete. Is the game as a whole a complete product? Negative. But the pvp system appears to be. And its the pvp system that was demoed at both booths.
You obviously missed the point where I said humor is subjective. Did some people find this caption funny? yes. Everyone determines what is funny... so in a sense you are partially wrong.
Even when you are caught with your hands in the cookie jar you can't just admit it. Someone says its funny, you say its not, they say its subjective, you say they are wrong. If you agree now that humor is subjective... why did you give that other guy a hard time earlier?
I said that YOU do not determine what was funny. People as a whole do, I agree. But thats not what I said. I was not partially wrong, you just didn't read what I wrote correctly.
In the spirit of this thread the first comment was a joke. Hence the smiley turning into a heart.
As to the functioning argument lets be a bit more specific here. The GOA guy implied AoC didn't "work". Are you going to use the same subjective argument here as well or just admit the guy lied?
Again you failed to read... I was the FIRST one to say humor is subjective in this thread. I never told anyone that they were wrong about it being subjective but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Do you even read my posts or just make assumptions? I gave the guy a hard time because he claimed to be sticking up for the rights of comedy. I asked him to point out the comical elements and stated that humor should have an element of truth which the GOA caption had a lie. Honestly if you do not take the time to even read my posts why bother replying to me... just ignore me. I sad you were partially wrong because I am part of the whole just like you. We both have a hand in determining what is humor. So yes I do partially determine what is humor same as you and every other individual.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Note- I believe it was 3v3 , but i could be wrong.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
GOA is FTL anyways , if you live in europe please just play NA and refuse to play on GOA so mythic and EA will stop using a 3rd party to run servers - patches etc. Its so dumb. (unless all they will do is host servers but that has not been the history of it.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Any idea of the setup they had at the Warhammer booth? How many people at once? I looked for about 20 minutes but couldn't find the info, got bored and stopped looking, heh.
Any idea of the setup they had at the Warhammer booth? How many people at once? I looked for about 20 minutes but couldn't find the info, got bored and stopped looking, heh.
I think it was 12v12, or at least that is the amount they have been doing at other conventions and shows recently.
"
Yes there is an element of truth in those jokes. Truth != being PC. They blow those truthful elements into comical proportions."
You mean for example, the truthful element that AoC's build was a bit buggy (as stated in several sources) blown up into comical proportions?
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"They were directly opposite us. Our booth was bigger and busier than theirs. And our game worked. "
Really this is funny? As one liners go how would you rate this? Sounds more like a normal statement then a one liner."
Then you aren't reading the pacing properly. See, now you've made me go all English Language student on you. See those two full stops, which break the comment down into three sentences? Notice how they could have been commas and it would still have been a viable sentence? That's the pacing. It makes each sentence that follows appear to be more like an afterthought. And the three part structure is common amongst a lot of comedy, especially when the last sentence is so short. I really shouldn't have to go into this level of detail because it is blatantly a comedic structure just from looking at it, but there you go. Linguistically, it is in a joke format.
"
Exactly who determines what is comedy? Just post his/her name here so I can ask some questions. I mean someone can label a brutal murder comedy... "Yes your honor I killed the guy... but it was hilarious!" right... Labeling something does not impart that labels meaning into the content. I guess when a studio labels a movie great... our opinions are subjective and have no bearing on if the movie is great.
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It is comedy when it is intended to make people laugh. Intention is the key. In Black Comedies you have a lot of people dying in funny ways often, but it is intended comedically. A murder is not comedic because it is a) not intended to make people laugh and b) done in real life, as a real action. Rape jokes are comedy, rape is not.
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Yes because the PC movement shows how tolerant our society is towards humor.
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Don't get me started on PC. Just...don't.
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I agree with you there to a point. The point is where your saying something that upsets the masses... then you have to pay attention to the people. You don't have to stop speaking... but you can suffer consequences.
"
What we have here is the same as someone telling a dead baby joke, then someone else giving a video of the person telling a dead baby joke to a group for mothers who have just lost children. Of course they are going to be offended. Is that the fault of the person who told the joke? No, it's the fault of whichever muppet thought that it would be funny to show to the wrong people. Comedy IS subjective. It is meant for it's target audience and no more. The GOA representative did not say the joke to AoC people, idiots showed the joke to AoC people, who got offeneded (suprisingly).
Any idea of the setup they had at the Warhammer booth? How many people at once? I looked for about 20 minutes but couldn't find the info, got bored and stopped looking, heh.
They had 36 machines 12 for the Starterzones and 24 running the Nordenwatch scenario in 12 vs 12. You had to wait ~ 1 hour to play 1 round in PVP.
You could play all the dwarf and orc professions, plus the healer and nuker types of empire and chaos.