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Can Fallen Earth satisfy the needs of Disgrunted Vets?
Reklaw
Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
Hi all....me again 
Just last week....i know pretty late....but my eye fell on some articels of Fallen Earth, at first i was hoping Tabula Rasa might fill in that spot, but unfortunaly for me it didn't for now (the game is going to have allot of changes still coming so the game might turn out better then it is currently, for my type of playstyle that is 
Anyway i've been reading up on Fallen Earth and there are a few things that i feel will atract those who enjoy SWG (incl. me) but i feel it might also pull some of the disgrunted VETS as what i've read and seen (thou graphics do look good they don't look great, just yet, but the overall gameplay and feature's seem very promissing, especialy to a crafting junk like me 
When you sum up all complaints about SWG for example how mounts behave, in FE they're separete entity's meaning your mounts can get hurt seperate from you aswell have the mount besides you aswell using your guns when riding a mounts (mounted combat anyone 
) it seems FE going to work with those complaints and implement what is missing in SWG into FE (Skill trees). The following person (Kehn) that reply'd at my topic What is Fallen Earth™? ,has posted some nice info about crafting ,(also this game guide interview> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG1N2xeZxTU was very promissing. I was looking forward to only one game which is Assasin Creed cause coming other mmorpg like TB WAR AoC seems to be the same old same old, thou AoC might have a suprise here and there, but after gathering and reading up on FE i'm kinda getting somewhat hyped about it and hope they can and will deliver what they promise. Trust me i don't have my hopes that high untill i had a taste of the real thing meaning either get into a beta ...whenever that may be or try a trial or after release (do hope on beta afcourse, actualy the only mmorpg that is coming that i am looking forward to that might take the place of SWG for me, if ...that is if this game indeed delivers what it is promising....and afcourse gets released
What do you think?
Comments
I'll have to check out FE. Never heard of it.
I think, if anything, WoW has set MMOs back. Not taking away from the game itself, which I have never played, but it is mostly hack n' slash, is it not? My point is, future game developers seem more concentrated on combat instead of other aspects of immersion. I noted that with Tabula Rasa. I hope there are games on the horizon in which combat is not the end-all.
No.
No FPS based system will ever be comfortable enough for long play sessions, nor will it ever work with lag (too many actions for the server and client to track amongst many players). I don't think any MMOFPS will ever succeed past a small niche. It won't be enough of a FPS to satisfy FPS fans, nor will it ever be MMO enough for MMO players.
It's a sandbox, non-fantasy MMORPG, so it's certainly got that in its favor. The 1st-person, real-time combat is...well...different, not necessarily bad, just different. By itself, the 1st person combat won't make or break a game for me. Frankly, I'd prefer 3rd person.
The sandbox character system should make for great individuality and role-playing. I just hope the ultimate effect of the "levels" is VERY subtle.. The deep, time-dependant crafting system sounds good too ~> the labor angle is nice. I much prefer the crafter-economy to the straight drop-economy.
One thing that jumps out at me: Won't it be extremely easy to make a multitude of crafting alts? If you can: 1) create a gunsmith and load him up with jobs, 2) then log-out your gunsmith and log-in your main character, 3) then come back to the gunsmith 4 hours later, who happens to have progressed X-amount within the gunsmith profession during those 4 hours......won't that kill a lot economic inter-dependencies? It seems everyone could have an armor-alt, weapon-alt, cook-alt, etc....with very little effort.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I'll be keeping my eye on this game.
The only true sandbox game out there is EVE.
Again, I just don't like a FPS combat system. Any MMO with a FPS combat system is an automatic "nope, forget it" out of hand for me.
Star Trek Online, btw, was originally going to be a FPSMMO. Shortly after the NGE their Devs announced they were going to instead be a traditional "turn based" MMO combat system...
The NGE showed that MMOFPS won't work. True, the NGE was the crappiest FPS ever made, but still, it proved the concept invalid, due to the issues of aiming, lag, and network traffic.
I just can't see any FPS game scaling over a couple dozen players per server maximum until both PC's and the internet are much faster than today.
fallen earth is the only game i wait for.
7000 square km map with little/no instancing
6 player factions
crafted goods better than drops
NO CLASSES choose any skills you want
teaching...shades of swg
no regular tank/healer/dps grouping like every other game..one character can fill several roles
changing seasons...even the stars change
zombies ftw.
FPS combat will NEVER work in a MMO.
FPS combat will NEVER work in a MMO.
remember soe tried to add a fps overlay to a turn-based game and borked the code. this game was wrote for fps. also people who have tried it report that the speed isn't quite as fast as a counter strike type game...so even those of us without the reflexes of a cobracan still play.
Sounds good, except for the FPS combat.. Which will NOT scale up to any number of players. It's too fast. If Fallen Earth supports even 50 players in one area, their combat system will fail in a hail of rubber banding and warping. Just like post NGE combat.FPS combat will NEVER work in a MMO.
remember soe tried to add a fps overlay to a turn-based game and borked the code. this game was wrote for fps. also people who have tried it report that the speed isn't quite as fast as a counter strike type game...so even those of us without the reflexes of a cobracan still play.
I am a sysadmin...
I can tell you that a FPS game in true "real time" with true "manual aiming" simply cannot work in a MASSIVELY multiplayer game.
Why?
Simple... EVERY action, be it a footstep, an action, an aim, a shot... must be passed from THAT client, to the server, to every OTHER affected client (including those that might dodge or shoot back) and to those who aren't involved but just there, in less than a SECOND...
This cannot happen without creating massive lag and unreliability. Which plagues the NGE combat system to this day even though it's backed way off from the FPS it originally was...
Simply put, an uncapped combat system without target lock and auto aim will not work at all unless greatly restricted in terms of how many players can be in the same area and in the same fight without:
1. Servers that haven't been invented yet
2. PC's that haven't been invented yet
3. an Internet that hasn't been invented yet.
Maybe NASA might invent that some day, but not some MMO company... Pre-CU and CU had a 1 action per second cap for a good reason... That worked.... <1 action per second doesn't. Not in SWG nor any other MMO. Of course the Pre CU and CU combat systems were designed by competent devs, not Jeff Freeman.
The stuff that goes on in a local BF2 server (with a dozen players on it) cannot scale into the realm of a persistent world MMO.
But thats not what FE will have either.
And boy are the CS PvP fanatic FFA "but we don't grief, we ust kill lowbies so they wont grow big" snipz0rz crying about that still on the official forums
I had the same issues with FE as you do until someone reminded me that Planetside has been doing exactly that for years. And just look how much server technology has come on since then.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
I had the same issues with FE as you do until someone reminded me that Planetside has been doing exactly that for years. And just look how much server technology has come on since then.
Do 50 people even play Planetside?
Planetside at it's height was at best a niche game. So far no one has proven that anything approaching FPS combat can achieve mainstream success in a MMO. Indeed, the NGE was probably the largest try of it ever. Needless to say that failed miserably.
I occasionally like to play a FPS, such as Call of Duty. But it's not the sort of combat that I ever want to see in a MMO. I like strategic combat, not reflexive combat. Strategy takes skill. FPS combat in a MMO is never going to be about skill, it's going to be about who was lucky enough to avoid the lag spike caused by the server/client/network having to deal with dozens of actions per second multiplied by number of players in the area.
I think that at best Fallen Earth will a niche game. Which is unfortunate, since it's skills based, breaking the mold of conventional wisdom of cloning WoW. Idiots like Smed will point at the skills system and say that this is why it's a niche. Nancy McIntyre will say that skills systems require too much reading. But the real reason they will fail is because a FPS just isn't comfortable enough to play in long settings.
Put a complex Pre-CU type combat system in, take the FPS out, and I'd try it.
typical day at soe
Arguements about the game's combat mechanic's aside, the answer to the OP's original question is "no". Something about Pre-CU SWG "damaged" those who played it. Maybe it was the way the game was butchered and taken away w/o a moment's notice, but those players appear to be forever unable to move on and enjoy playing other games for what they are...and overlook the fact that the game isn't their beloved SWG.
For them there will never be any hope....
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I like a lot of the design of Fallen Earth and its not a fantasy setting which is always a plus for me but the FPS combat means my friends won't be intrested and without them I'm not intrested.
I'm not really looking forward to the fps type thing but i wil not jugde that untill like i said i've tasted in how it works out.
Just tell your friends to act like gamers do and try things first before laying up a judgement on how it might workI'm not really looking forward to the fps type thing but i wil not jugde that untill like i said i've tasted in how it works out.
heh its not really judging the game though. They aren't saying FPS can't be good or fun, they just know they don't enjoy them. They didn't even enjoy the amount of twitch combat in JTLS so a combat system that relies on a more typical FPS combat system isn't for them. It's the same way that no matter how good a platform jumper game is I just don't enjoy it.
They could reintroduce Pre-CU except tell me the combat system is now FPS and I wouldn't play. FPS is a loser with regard to a MMO.
Thank you, Reklaw, for bringing attention to this game. It's very interesting and does have that classic SWG feel. Way too early to draw any conclusions about combat or anything else, but I will be following the game's development.
FPS won't work in a MMO and it will never work in a MMO.
Not for another decade at least.
If Fallen Earth pursued a Pre0CU type combat system, yes it'd be great. But it isn't, it's doing a NGE type combat system. This won't work.
Same advice to Tabula Rasa... The FPS combat system will doom the game.
Just tell your friends to act like gamers do and try things first before laying up a judgement on how it might workI'm not really looking forward to the fps type thing but i wil not jugde that untill like i said i've tasted in how it works out.
Sorry, I don't want a FPS game. This is unnatural to a MMO player. Won't even try any MMO that uses this, since it's a guaranteed failure. It is completely impossible for any sort of MMO combat system based on a FPS or not capped at 1 action per second to not be so buggy you would think that Jeff Freeman came up with it.
Turn based skills based, strategy based, I am there. FPS bullshit, no... NO! It doesn't work and won't work.
As to FE, the FPS aspect is a deal breaker for me I think, but I may try it once a free trial is offered.
not me....i never liked fps
I agree - TR is a nice break from Gnomes and such but the FPS aspect makes it boring in the first 5 minutes.
Fallen earth seems like a great game, I anticipate its release above WAR (one could call me a 'fanboi of WAR') games that bring something new to the table and make big companies less afraid always deserve kudos, you should always try something before saying it's bad!
The FPS combat system didn't doom the game, the lack of content did, In FE theres no target lock, It's not just continually grinding mobs. I look forward to a game that requires skill to play and not just Target button bashing!