but you all really need to stop blaming blizzard for stuff, they simply made a game they hoped would be fun and people have found it fun, yeah i know its hard to understand that not everyone out there want to play complicated games, but their are some of us out there, does that warrent calling us names and such no i don't think so, i mean i come home from work and just want a relaxing easy game, wow does that and there isn't anything wrong with that.
Now i understand there are some out there that think blizzard ruined the mmo market or whatever, but honestly they just made a game and hoped people would like it, they didn't force anyone at gun point to play it, its not their fault if other companies seem to want to copy what they have done, which i personally don't believe is happeneing but some believe that it is, they aren't making anyone do anything agianst their will....for some of you complicated games are fun, for some of us we enjoy easy games, maybe people just need to start respecting each other...prolly too much to ask tho heh...
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
well i can't wait for it, i seem to never get bored with the game, that's probably becuase i play to have fun, and it seems people nowadays can't have fun if they aren't the supreme best over everyone else. blizzard has a lot of tastes to please and i think they do the best they can...why even get so angry over something that doesn't matter in anyway at all...i just don't get it, anyways go find a fun game and quit hating on wow, its never going away till, blizzard decides, you gonna sit here for years crying about it? if so have fun i guess hehe.
I don't know how to have fun. Trying to live after fighting a mage who' most likely lives with his mother, has pail white skin, and is overweight from eating microwaved burrito's or hotpockets and washing it down with a vault soda. I don't have the time to get the gear to stand a chance to actually enjoy a battleground. So big bad WoW went byebye
I don't like hotpockets and my mom has Alzheimer's disease..perhaps I'm takeing this whole thing too personal.
I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes. but I lvled a dranaei shamman to lvl 70. I had a horde shamman before. but my friends all moved to play on the alliance side. I'm not a hardcore player like them. there parents pay for everything. I pay my own bills and have a 8-4 job M-F. but I was in love with pvping before they added pvp battlegrounds. then battlegrounds became a hard-core item race also.
And at lvl 70 with all 5 man blues and a few epic's I get nailed in 2-3 hits and cant enjoy it when they have the upper edge cause they have more time to get gear. but I guess i have to except that im getting old and i dont have the time to play like I used to.
well i can't wait for it, i seem to never get bored with the game, that's probably becuase i play to have fun, and it seems people nowadays can't have fun if they aren't the supreme best over everyone else. blizzard has a lot of tastes to please and i think they do the best they can...why even get so angry over something that doesn't matter in anyway at all...i just don't get it, anyways go find a fun game and quit hating on wow, its never going away till, blizzard decides, you gonna sit here for years crying about it? if so have fun i guess hehe.
I don't know how to have fun. Trying to live after fighting a mage who' most likely lives with his mother, has pail white skin, and is overweight from eating microwaved burrito's or hotpockets and washing it down with a vault soda. I don't have the time to get the gear to stand a chance to actually enjoy a battleground. So big bad WoW went byebye
I don't like hotpockets and my mom has Alzheimer's disease..perhaps I'm takeing this whole thing too personal.
I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes. but I lvled a dranaei shamman to lvl 70. I had a horde shamman before. but my friends all moved to play on the alliance side. I'm not a hardcore player like them. there parents pay for everything. I pay my own bills and have a 8-4 job M-F. but I was in love with pvping before they added pvp battlegrounds. then battlegrounds became a hard-core item race also.
And at lvl 70 with all 5 man blues and a few epic's I get nailed in 2-3 hits and cant enjoy it when they have the upper edge cause they have more time to get gear. but I guess i have to except that im getting old and i dont have the time to play like I used to.
last post was just a rib poker....I completely agree...I really enjoy playing WOW...but due to time constraints and lack of an assist...I too wander about in Greens and Blues..with no instance or raid gear to speak of. I don't even bother PVP most times because there would be no point. The ones I really love are the level 70 players, loaded to the gills with supreme raid gear, challenging players 20 levels lower than them....???...what, again, is the point?..oh well..some people get off on anything..I suppose.
Hahahahaha, the only crowd dumber than WoW players are the ex-WoW players... hahahaha
Over generalizing much are we?
No, not realy. If you read the posts you can see that WoW players are well aware of shortcomings of WoW and they know why they are playing and why they're having fun. These new fresh baked WoW burnouts are the ones I find rediciluos. I mean, they don't even know how stupid it sounds when someone writes something like "I've been playing this game from beta and I know what I'm talking about, it sucks, it's a grind, it's boring, it's shallow" Man, if it took you 3 years to find out you don't like something while playing it hours and hours every day.... must I say more?
From that point of view, I completely agree with what you said. MMOs are a "it's the nature of the beast" type of thing, even if there are some variations. They are what they are.
For what it's worth, I cancelled my WOW subscription when I read the FAQ for the next expansion. Seems it's just an updated BC to me. WOW was a lot of fun pre-BC. 40 man raids is what I liked most. The post about collecting gear made me giggle - so true. I enjoyed the guild aspect of taking 40 people to get something done but that has been removed from the game. World PVP was a blast too but that is all but obsolete now. MC and BWL I will remember fondly. I'll check out any new games Blizz does but WOW has lost its appeal to me (same ole same ole).
I have never really knocked WoW too hard without a tongue-in-cheek approach. It just surprises me how cheap the WoW expansions are with adding very little to the game. The business model seems to work for Blizzard, though. That is, the market of this game does not seem to demand impressive expansions, despite the enormous success of WoW.
I have never really knocked WoW too hard without a tongue-in-cheek approach. It just surprises me how cheap the WoW expansions are with adding very little to the game. The business model seems to work for Blizzard, though. That is, the market of this game does not seem to demand impressive expansions, despite the enormous success of WoW.
There was a lot of content added in the burning crusade, it definitly wasn't cheap.
This has some people excited, and I suppose those people also have Lvl 70 characters they've been PvPing with for months now since there's nothing else to do on WoW after you hit 70... Unless you want to attempt to organize the terrible community into a Raid group or something.
However! I still find it hilarious that Blizzard's idea of Character-Customization is... More dances. Yes, I can imagine it now. "Now you can grind you way through the ranks and become the greatest dancer in all of Azeroth with WoW's unique dancing talent tree!"
Ready the popcorn, because this one is going to be hilarious to watch.
One a serious note, though... Blizzard keeps raising the level cap, which means more l00t and gold, which means more Korean and Chinese gold farmers. I don't think they're considering how they can make the play experience better, I think they're just looking for another 3.5 million accounts to pop up so they can boast how popular their game is and in turn, rake in more money.
They've forsaken the millions of lvl 1 characters and pushed the entirety of the worthwhile gameplay to the VERY end, meaning you either sign your soul away for a year to make it worth while, or you just don't play.
I have a real life as well and can no longer keep up with the time it involves to successfully play WoW.
Dont play it for success. Success is for real life. Play it for fun. Thats what games are supposed to be about. Although I agree with this idea we also must admit that "success" is a large driving force in most non-MMO games. When I play Half Life 2 or Civilization 4 or whatever it is specifically with "success" in mind as I play the game.
Is there a way to satisfy both? I think there is a hidden problem with level based MMO games. And that problem is that the idea of "success" is a level capped/max equipped character. The fact is "success" is the goal most people have in mind even if they also want to play the game and have fun. The idea of "success" is a fundamental goal. And level based games like WoW tend to have their goal setting infrastructure spiral out of control.
Why does WoW keep upping the level cap? Because redefining success means redefining the goals of the game and therefore generating more umph.
If you look at a game like Eve which has a very different system the goal setting behavior is very different. Adding in a new set of skills does not change the "success" equation. It may be something many people want to get or whatever. But the idea of success is not completely and utterly tied to skills. Skills are important for gaining success but it is not the one-dimensional equation ntaht games like EQ or WoW are.
Anytime WoW tries to add in more variety (except by adding a while new class) or power they are changing their success equation and invalidating the old one.
I have a real life as well and can no longer keep up with the time it involves to successfully play WoW.
Dont play it for success. Success is for real life. Play it for fun. Thats what games are supposed to be about. Although I agree with this idea we also must admit that "success" is a large driving force in most non-MMO games. When I play Half Life 2 or Civilization 4 or whatever it is specifically with "success" in mind as I play the game.
Is there a way to satisfy both? I think there is a hidden problem with level based MMO games. And that problem is that the idea of "success" is a level capped/max equipped character. The fact is "success" is the goal most people have in mind even if they also want to play the game and have fun. The idea of "success" is a fundamental goal. And level based games like WoW tend to have their goal setting infrastructure spiral out of control.
Why does WoW keep upping the level cap? Because redefining success means redefining the goals of the game and therefore generating more umph.
If you look at a game like Eve which has a very different system the goal setting behavior is very different. Adding in a new set of skills does not change the "success" equation. It may be something many people want to get or whatever. But the idea of success is not completely and utterly tied to skills. Skills are important for gaining success but it is not the one-dimensional equation ntaht games like EQ or WoW are.
Anytime WoW tries to add in more variety (except by adding a while new class) or power they are changing their success equation and invalidating the old one.
Actually EVE has very similar mechanics, it's just difficult for some to compare them because EVE has different names for them. Instead of new levels, they've released increasingly more expensive and 'harder'-to-fly ships, such Titans, which take 3 months to build - and many months of skill training, and a great amount of 'grind' by all involved. Most players will never fly a Titan. Instead of tiered skills, you have tiered modules which need the higher level skills - more time to train, more isk to earn.
Most players resign themselves to the fact they'll never catch up with the older players in terms of skillpoints. I know that specialization can be achieved quickly but most of the available skills augment even the most specialized career - specialized miner? OK, but there's still craptons of engineering skills to get, and market-related skills if you ever buy and sell stuff, processing related skills, social related skills, and of course learning skills and implants, and many other things in eve that augment your performance).
Yes, there are diminishing returns in EVE, once you've gotten so many skillpoints in a certain field, the percentage gap between you and the best players only gets smaller. In WoW, you can catch up - you can get your success, and be the best - even with the level cap increases. With EVE, unless you have a time machine, you never will reach the levels of the '03 players.
Levels are not a measure of sucess, they're there to introduce you to the content in the game so that your newly-created character doesn't immediately run off to fight the Burning Legion. Levels are the staple of most RPGs. This is true in EVE, but the 'levels' are just hidden better.. For example: Miner : Start off in a mining frigate, few days later get a cruiser, week or two later get a small mining barge (provided you can afford to equip it), couple more weeks later get a slightly bigger mining barge (and equip it), then a few months down the line you can afford to buy, equip, and replace of course a Hulk.
EVE gets away with being 'non-linear' because it has no PvE content to speak of. There are advantages, and disadvantages.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I don't really post, at all... but I felt the need to convey a few things here, both in defense of WoW and against it (if you can call it that)... Anyway, to the person saying the WoW expansion didn't sell all that well and so on, I can't give you exact numbers, but I can tell you that according to the retail company I work for (Gamestop) WoW: TBC was 2nd on the record for most sold copies of a game, losing only to Madden, at the time of it's release. I work in a store that doesn't really sell a whole lot of PC games, we're talking maybe one a month, and yet we had over 50 copies of TBC that were sent to us (over half of those had been reserved) and all but maybe 5 of those sold. That certainly does not show any sign of failure.
Now, on the topic of the expansion, I have mixed feelings. New hairstyles and dances, that's a fun feature, purely superficial, yet I am excited about them, perhaps because I'm female and I'm happy they're adding new ways to customize my character. The Siege's also intrigued me. The whole idea of destructable buildings sounds new and exciting, a whole map devoted to Siege PvP reguardless of what type of server you play on. Raising the level cap to 80... well if we look at the 70 cap, it really didn't take that long to get to 70 from 60... the quests once you got to Outland made it surprisingly easy to do. So I'm looking forward to the 80 cap, hopefully it will open up some new and interesting spec's if they add more talent points without adding more to the talent trees.
On to the things I'm not so happy about. I don't mind trading in epics for greens as I am more excited about my character getting to look different again after looking the same for so long (again, perhaps that's a female thing)... what I do mind, though, is that fact that when TBC came out, the older raid instances became useless, for lack of a better word, and I didn't get to see them. I like to see everything I can, but when part of 'everything' involves getting 40 people together and organized, it takes my guild a bit longer. For this reason, we never went beyond MC, ZG and Ony. So I have never seen AQ or Nax... and now we're doing Kara, but we're stuck on Prince.. So if more raid instances come out, and the greens are so much better that they void the time it would take to get the set pieces from raiding, I won't get to see a lot of stuff, not because I'm gear focused, but because a majority of my friends are. So that's a worry I have, just not getting to see everything the first expansion offered.
Along those same lines, I'd like to see all items available for smaller groups (15 people at most).. with the option of doing harder instances, perhaps with a better drop rate of said gear, with more people... but I would definately love for everything to be obtainable without trying to horde together a bunch of crying 'adults.' Even if that means it takes a bit longer to obtain than if we could muster up a full 20-40.
The only other thing I'm really worried about is the cost of the next expansion. I don't feel any expansion, for any game, should cost as much as a brand new game itself. Afterall, it's an add-on, not a completely new game.
Just to sum things up, none of the above things will cause me not to play the game, they are just things I'm expressing I dislike. As long as I'm having fun, I will continue to play.
Unlockable classes, destructable buildings & siege weapons? Hasn't this all been done before....?
I think that WoW really just brought a bunch of new MMOers into the market, blinded them with all of these 'new & neat' features - it's like they're playing a whole new genre! Never mind that people who like MMOs are ever skeptical of WoW ..
Well, I too followed in the wake of the recent "canceled subscription long time player" category. I had my fun with the game for 2 years, did lots of stuff, experienced the game on every level from hardcore pvp to big time pve raider. I achieved my goals in the game, played a lot of classes to 70 or upper to mid 60's and finally with new things coming out, knowing I won't have the time, patience or excitement I once had playing this game, when the new expansion comes out I probably would not have the desire to play anymore.
It's not a bad game, I think the expansion is rather cool, I however look at it and know I won't be able to play it like I used to, and even now I know the formula will remain the same with new content and it's the overall game I have become bored with which is why I chose to quit, not the expansion/content coming out. While I am skeptical of the numbers blizzard pushes and boasts, 9 million players and growing, atleast half if not more of those numbers are more than likely gold farmers. That's besides the point though, WoW had a good run, and for a time period I would say it is deserving of a "the best" title, but now, I look at these long lists of MMO's and have to look back at WoW with an unbiased opinion to it, that it just no longer is what it was. I just know that I don't think WoW is going to last too much longer, as part of my reasons for quitting were so many others quitting, a lot of those people being big time friends I had made in the game.
I always played for fun, never for gear or ego. I had a lot of fun, but now with the game just feeling same old same old, I can't help but feel both burnt out and over played. I like change and well, it's time to change and move on, it's not like I can't come back, it's just that I don't see myself coming back, but if I did, I'd want to start over fresh with the game, from the ground up. So a year or so away from the game might refresh me enough to return. Because honestly, I think I had my most fun when I was learning the game for the first time, leveling up, getting my first "rare" items and being excited when I collected enough money to make my first piece of gold.
Those first times can be emulated with an expansion, but I'll never forget that day I first got to 60 and how excited I was I didn't know where to start, the things I learned etc etc etc. blah blah, you get the point, and well, all I can say is "It was fun WoW" I don't hate the game, nor the direction it's going, would I suggest the game to someone? Sure, but I wouldn't push it like it's the end all of games, after taking a look at a lot of others out there, you gotta realize WoW is just another one of the many MMOs, and whether it's good or bad is all a matter of what you enjoy. Blizzard is an excellent company, and I can't wait for diablo 3, because I'm sure you all know it'll be coming out.
Gotta love that MMORPG.COM readership..... Pretty much all of the complaints above fall in to one of the following "read between the lines categories: 1. "I am burned out on this game and need to discourage myself from playing it without joy by expressing my hatred for it." 2. "I am burned out on this game but am compulsive and must show my hatred for it to avoid falling back in to playing." 3. "I love another game and anything tied in to a more successful franchise scares me so I must attack it." 4. "I spent nine million hours getting my 60 level epic gear and when the new expansion added ten levels of content it showed me what a putz I was for wasting all that time in the first place and so I must hate it." 5. "I have a real life/real job havne't got the time to play and to avoid feeling bad I will express my hate for it." 6. "I like to express my rage through games by pvping till the cows come home and games like this get too touchy feely for me so I must vent my rage by calling it carebearish." And then there's my own contribution... "I get so frickin' bored with the grinding and high end crap that it drives me nuts that the new game doesn't cater to the players who prefer the low end questing from 1-60 and so must hate it." Actually I am looking forward to it, it sounds both cool and horrifically messy all at the same time.... To all above: Joke! Joke! But sriously, we all need to relax. It's just another game, albeit an enormously successful and dangerously addictvie one.
More of Blizzard's never ending raid or die bullshit. I'm so glad I quit this game a year ago. What a worthless and unimaginative company.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
More of Blizzard's never ending raid or die bullshit. I'm so glad I quit this game a year ago. What a worthless and unimaginative company.
Good thing you managed to get 4-5 characters to max lvl and all that in few days. Well, you know what they say, only thing worse than loosing is loosing and not learning anything from it.
ya all need to relax if you don't want the expansion don't get it.quit bitchin bout it you don't want to play fine then don't play plain and simple wow does need cry babies dam you all think you can do better then do it otherwise quit bitching bout it oh this oh that just shut the hell up already you don't like wow then walk away from it.
So far i've only read about 4 or 5 pages on this thread and I see one major thing keep poping up that mostly everyone is complaining about in WoW
"THE GRIND"
If you really wanna complain about a grind fest go play FFXI for 6 months and tell me how long it takes you to level 1 job from level 1 to 75 Along with leveling up fesible subjobs for your main job. Now that is a grind fest with a cap of 200 exp per kill with only exp bonus increase per kill depending on your killing speed for your party. Not to mention You can't really solo very well unless you chose a job like Beastmaster or Puppetmaster (which requires you to already have one job level 30 and then under-go a tedius task to unlock the jobs)
WoW leveling is a cake walk. my first character I ever made on WoW. I was able to take to level 60 (when that was the cap) in 10 days. then the 60 - 70 cap only took another 5 - 6 days of playing. I really don't why even complain about the game at all for leveling since (even now they have that stupid Lv 20-60 Exp increased x2 or something like that and quest exp gained is also enchanced from Lv 30- 60).
As for Wrath of the Lich King Atleast new content is being released weather you like it or not and the Level cap being increased by another 10 levels gives you something to do.
" Would you like some Cheese with that whine?"
A new "Hero" Type class coming out. Not a bad idea the same 6 - 8 classes to play is pretty boring anyway 3 years of a new game and nothing really exciting bout new classes untill now. I personaly feel that its a good thing they are adding a new class to the game. I'm quite sure ya'll are complaining that its gonna be over powered or needs to be nerfed ect. or be mad about the long ass quest required to open it up.
Its made to be a tedius class to open because its new and its suposta be good. but I supose if its too good its another job for all you rogues to cry about in PvP -- Oh I cant do nothing agesnt hunters because of flares or Oh No I cant do nothing to a frost mages because of Back to back Ice Block.
Stop trying to be an elitest and enjoy the game for what it is not to make yourself feel better because you beat up some 8 year old kids character in PvP screaming out "PwNd". Your Social life outside of this game must be hurting hard core if you gotta complaina bout these petty little things. you can't feel any satasfaction unless you're able to one shot kill someone 15 levels under you or with out running though noob areas killing level 10's at level 70 with out having whats considered the best of the best gear?
If not I would suggest to take a break from this game and get your prioritys straightened out their is a Word outside of World of Warcraft that can be just as fun and intresting if you let it be.
last but not least
--This is a game, dont get so pissy if you find something you dont like about it. Human beings make this from imagination land. It can't be perfect never will it be perfect.---
PS: you can flame me all you want over this because i wont be back to read this thread lol so have fun oh and feel free to make fun of my spelling and grammar errors.
Comments
but you all really need to stop blaming blizzard for stuff, they simply made a game they hoped would be fun and people have found it fun, yeah i know its hard to understand that not everyone out there want to play complicated games, but their are some of us out there, does that warrent calling us names and such no i don't think so, i mean i come home from work and just want a relaxing easy game, wow does that and there isn't anything wrong with that.
Now i understand there are some out there that think blizzard ruined the mmo market or whatever, but honestly they just made a game and hoped people would like it, they didn't force anyone at gun point to play it, its not their fault if other companies seem to want to copy what they have done, which i personally don't believe is happeneing but some believe that it is, they aren't making anyone do anything agianst their will....for some of you complicated games are fun, for some of us we enjoy easy games, maybe people just need to start respecting each other...prolly too much to ask tho heh...
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I don't know how to have fun. Trying to live after fighting a mage who' most likely lives with his mother, has pail white skin, and is overweight from eating microwaved burrito's or hotpockets and washing it down with a vault soda. I don't have the time to get the gear to stand a chance to actually enjoy a battleground.
So big bad WoW went byebye
I don't like hotpockets and my mom has Alzheimer's disease..perhaps I'm takeing this whole thing too personal.
I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes. but I lvled a dranaei shamman to lvl 70. I had a horde shamman before. but my friends all moved to play on the alliance side. I'm not a hardcore player like them. there parents pay for everything. I pay my own bills and have a 8-4 job M-F. but I was in love with pvping before they added pvp battlegrounds. then battlegrounds became a hard-core item race also.
And at lvl 70 with all 5 man blues and a few epic's I get nailed in 2-3 hits and cant enjoy it when they have the upper edge cause they have more time to get gear. but I guess i have to except that im getting old and i dont have the time to play like I used to.
I don't know how to have fun. Trying to live after fighting a mage who' most likely lives with his mother, has pail white skin, and is overweight from eating microwaved burrito's or hotpockets and washing it down with a vault soda. I don't have the time to get the gear to stand a chance to actually enjoy a battleground.
So big bad WoW went byebye
I don't like hotpockets and my mom has Alzheimer's disease..perhaps I'm takeing this whole thing too personal.
I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes. but I lvled a dranaei shamman to lvl 70. I had a horde shamman before. but my friends all moved to play on the alliance side. I'm not a hardcore player like them. there parents pay for everything. I pay my own bills and have a 8-4 job M-F. but I was in love with pvping before they added pvp battlegrounds. then battlegrounds became a hard-core item race also.
And at lvl 70 with all 5 man blues and a few epic's I get nailed in 2-3 hits and cant enjoy it when they have the upper edge cause they have more time to get gear. but I guess i have to except that im getting old and i dont have the time to play like I used to.
last post was just a rib poker....I completely agree...I really enjoy playing WOW...but due to time constraints and lack of an assist...I too wander about in Greens and Blues..with no instance or raid gear to speak of. I don't even bother PVP most times because there would be no point. The ones I really love are the level 70 players, loaded to the gills with supreme raid gear, challenging players 20 levels lower than them....???...what, again, is the point?..oh well..some people get off on anything..I suppose.
Over generalizing much are we?
No, not realy. If you read the posts you can see that WoW players are well aware of shortcomings of WoW and they know why they are playing and why they're having fun. These new fresh baked WoW burnouts are the ones I find rediciluos. I mean, they don't even know how stupid it sounds when someone writes something like "I've been playing this game from beta and I know what I'm talking about, it sucks, it's a grind, it's boring, it's shallow" Man, if it took you 3 years to find out you don't like something while playing it hours and hours every day.... must I say more?
From that point of view, I completely agree with what you said. MMOs are a "it's the nature of the beast" type of thing, even if there are some variations. They are what they are.
For what it's worth, I cancelled my WOW subscription when I read the FAQ for the next expansion. Seems it's just an updated BC to me. WOW was a lot of fun pre-BC. 40 man raids is what I liked most. The post about collecting gear made me giggle - so true. I enjoyed the guild aspect of taking 40 people to get something done but that has been removed from the game. World PVP was a blast too but that is all but obsolete now. MC and BWL I will remember fondly. I'll check out any new games Blizz does but WOW has lost its appeal to me (same ole same ole).
I have never really knocked WoW too hard without a tongue-in-cheek approach. It just surprises me how cheap the WoW expansions are with adding very little to the game. The business model seems to work for Blizzard, though. That is, the market of this game does not seem to demand impressive expansions, despite the enormous success of WoW.
also the expansion was very impressive.
This has some people excited, and I suppose those people also have Lvl 70 characters they've been PvPing with for months now since there's nothing else to do on WoW after you hit 70... Unless you want to attempt to organize the terrible community into a Raid group or something.
However! I still find it hilarious that Blizzard's idea of Character-Customization is... More dances. Yes, I can imagine it now. "Now you can grind you way through the ranks and become the greatest dancer in all of Azeroth with WoW's unique dancing talent tree!"
Ready the popcorn, because this one is going to be hilarious to watch.
One a serious note, though... Blizzard keeps raising the level cap, which means more l00t and gold, which means more Korean and Chinese gold farmers. I don't think they're considering how they can make the play experience better, I think they're just looking for another 3.5 million accounts to pop up so they can boast how popular their game is and in turn, rake in more money.
They've forsaken the millions of lvl 1 characters and pushed the entirety of the worthwhile gameplay to the VERY end, meaning you either sign your soul away for a year to make it worth while, or you just don't play.
There is an easy way around this guys, buy WAR. It will most likely be out before this expansion and is better than WoW in almost every category.
Is there a way to satisfy both? I think there is a hidden problem with level based MMO games. And that problem is that the idea of "success" is a level capped/max equipped character. The fact is "success" is the goal most people have in mind even if they also want to play the game and have fun. The idea of "success" is a fundamental goal. And level based games like WoW tend to have their goal setting infrastructure spiral out of control.
Why does WoW keep upping the level cap? Because redefining success means redefining the goals of the game and therefore generating more umph.
If you look at a game like Eve which has a very different system the goal setting behavior is very different. Adding in a new set of skills does not change the "success" equation. It may be something many people want to get or whatever. But the idea of success is not completely and utterly tied to skills. Skills are important for gaining success but it is not the one-dimensional equation ntaht games like EQ or WoW are.
Anytime WoW tries to add in more variety (except by adding a while new class) or power they are changing their success equation and invalidating the old one.
Dont play it for success. Success is for real life. Play it for fun. Thats what games are supposed to be about. Although I agree with this idea we also must admit that "success" is a large driving force in most non-MMO games. When I play Half Life 2 or Civilization 4 or whatever it is specifically with "success" in mind as I play the game.Is there a way to satisfy both? I think there is a hidden problem with level based MMO games. And that problem is that the idea of "success" is a level capped/max equipped character. The fact is "success" is the goal most people have in mind even if they also want to play the game and have fun. The idea of "success" is a fundamental goal. And level based games like WoW tend to have their goal setting infrastructure spiral out of control.
Why does WoW keep upping the level cap? Because redefining success means redefining the goals of the game and therefore generating more umph.
If you look at a game like Eve which has a very different system the goal setting behavior is very different. Adding in a new set of skills does not change the "success" equation. It may be something many people want to get or whatever. But the idea of success is not completely and utterly tied to skills. Skills are important for gaining success but it is not the one-dimensional equation ntaht games like EQ or WoW are.
Anytime WoW tries to add in more variety (except by adding a while new class) or power they are changing their success equation and invalidating the old one.
Actually EVE has very similar mechanics, it's just difficult for some to compare them because EVE has different names for them. Instead of new levels, they've released increasingly more expensive and 'harder'-to-fly ships, such Titans, which take 3 months to build - and many months of skill training, and a great amount of 'grind' by all involved. Most players will never fly a Titan. Instead of tiered skills, you have tiered modules which need the higher level skills - more time to train, more isk to earn.
Most players resign themselves to the fact they'll never catch up with the older players in terms of skillpoints. I know that specialization can be achieved quickly but most of the available skills augment even the most specialized career - specialized miner? OK, but there's still craptons of engineering skills to get, and market-related skills if you ever buy and sell stuff, processing related skills, social related skills, and of course learning skills and implants, and many other things in eve that augment your performance).
Yes, there are diminishing returns in EVE, once you've gotten so many skillpoints in a certain field, the percentage gap between you and the best players only gets smaller. In WoW, you can catch up - you can get your success, and be the best - even with the level cap increases. With EVE, unless you have a time machine, you never will reach the levels of the '03 players.
Levels are not a measure of sucess, they're there to introduce you to the content in the game so that your newly-created character doesn't immediately run off to fight the Burning Legion. Levels are the staple of most RPGs. This is true in EVE, but the 'levels' are just hidden better.. For example: Miner : Start off in a mining frigate, few days later get a cruiser, week or two later get a small mining barge (provided you can afford to equip it), couple more weeks later get a slightly bigger mining barge (and equip it), then a few months down the line you can afford to buy, equip, and replace of course a Hulk.
EVE gets away with being 'non-linear' because it has no PvE content to speak of. There are advantages, and disadvantages.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I don't really post, at all... but I felt the need to convey a few things here, both in defense of WoW and against it (if you can call it that)... Anyway, to the person saying the WoW expansion didn't sell all that well and so on, I can't give you exact numbers, but I can tell you that according to the retail company I work for (Gamestop) WoW: TBC was 2nd on the record for most sold copies of a game, losing only to Madden, at the time of it's release. I work in a store that doesn't really sell a whole lot of PC games, we're talking maybe one a month, and yet we had over 50 copies of TBC that were sent to us (over half of those had been reserved) and all but maybe 5 of those sold. That certainly does not show any sign of failure.
Now, on the topic of the expansion, I have mixed feelings. New hairstyles and dances, that's a fun feature, purely superficial, yet I am excited about them, perhaps because I'm female and I'm happy they're adding new ways to customize my character. The Siege's also intrigued me. The whole idea of destructable buildings sounds new and exciting, a whole map devoted to Siege PvP reguardless of what type of server you play on. Raising the level cap to 80... well if we look at the 70 cap, it really didn't take that long to get to 70 from 60... the quests once you got to Outland made it surprisingly easy to do. So I'm looking forward to the 80 cap, hopefully it will open up some new and interesting spec's if they add more talent points without adding more to the talent trees.
On to the things I'm not so happy about. I don't mind trading in epics for greens as I am more excited about my character getting to look different again after looking the same for so long (again, perhaps that's a female thing)... what I do mind, though, is that fact that when TBC came out, the older raid instances became useless, for lack of a better word, and I didn't get to see them. I like to see everything I can, but when part of 'everything' involves getting 40 people together and organized, it takes my guild a bit longer. For this reason, we never went beyond MC, ZG and Ony. So I have never seen AQ or Nax... and now we're doing Kara, but we're stuck on Prince.. So if more raid instances come out, and the greens are so much better that they void the time it would take to get the set pieces from raiding, I won't get to see a lot of stuff, not because I'm gear focused, but because a majority of my friends are. So that's a worry I have, just not getting to see everything the first expansion offered.
Along those same lines, I'd like to see all items available for smaller groups (15 people at most).. with the option of doing harder instances, perhaps with a better drop rate of said gear, with more people... but I would definately love for everything to be obtainable without trying to horde together a bunch of crying 'adults.' Even if that means it takes a bit longer to obtain than if we could muster up a full 20-40.
The only other thing I'm really worried about is the cost of the next expansion. I don't feel any expansion, for any game, should cost as much as a brand new game itself. Afterall, it's an add-on, not a completely new game.
Just to sum things up, none of the above things will cause me not to play the game, they are just things I'm expressing I dislike. As long as I'm having fun, I will continue to play.
new item?
Norden
Unlockable classes, destructable buildings & siege weapons? Hasn't this all been done before....?
I think that WoW really just brought a bunch of new MMOers into the market, blinded them with all of these 'new & neat' features - it's like they're playing a whole new genre! Never mind that people who like MMOs are ever skeptical of WoW ..
Well, I too followed in the wake of the recent "canceled subscription long time player" category. I had my fun with the game for 2 years, did lots of stuff, experienced the game on every level from hardcore pvp to big time pve raider. I achieved my goals in the game, played a lot of classes to 70 or upper to mid 60's and finally with new things coming out, knowing I won't have the time, patience or excitement I once had playing this game, when the new expansion comes out I probably would not have the desire to play anymore.
It's not a bad game, I think the expansion is rather cool, I however look at it and know I won't be able to play it like I used to, and even now I know the formula will remain the same with new content and it's the overall game I have become bored with which is why I chose to quit, not the expansion/content coming out. While I am skeptical of the numbers blizzard pushes and boasts, 9 million players and growing, atleast half if not more of those numbers are more than likely gold farmers. That's besides the point though, WoW had a good run, and for a time period I would say it is deserving of a "the best" title, but now, I look at these long lists of MMO's and have to look back at WoW with an unbiased opinion to it, that it just no longer is what it was. I just know that I don't think WoW is going to last too much longer, as part of my reasons for quitting were so many others quitting, a lot of those people being big time friends I had made in the game.
I always played for fun, never for gear or ego. I had a lot of fun, but now with the game just feeling same old same old, I can't help but feel both burnt out and over played. I like change and well, it's time to change and move on, it's not like I can't come back, it's just that I don't see myself coming back, but if I did, I'd want to start over fresh with the game, from the ground up. So a year or so away from the game might refresh me enough to return. Because honestly, I think I had my most fun when I was learning the game for the first time, leveling up, getting my first "rare" items and being excited when I collected enough money to make my first piece of gold.
Those first times can be emulated with an expansion, but I'll never forget that day I first got to 60 and how excited I was I didn't know where to start, the things I learned etc etc etc. blah blah, you get the point, and well, all I can say is "It was fun WoW" I don't hate the game, nor the direction it's going, would I suggest the game to someone? Sure, but I wouldn't push it like it's the end all of games, after taking a look at a lot of others out there, you gotta realize WoW is just another one of the many MMOs, and whether it's good or bad is all a matter of what you enjoy. Blizzard is an excellent company, and I can't wait for diablo 3, because I'm sure you all know it'll be coming out.
More of Blizzard's never ending raid or die bullshit. I'm so glad I quit this game a year ago. What a worthless and unimaginative company.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Good thing you managed to get 4-5 characters to max lvl and all that in few days. Well, you know what they say, only thing worse than loosing is loosing and not learning anything from it.
Why all the angst and horrible spelling? Did the Barrens chat just move here because people are terrible at the game?
i don't know if someone else brought this up or not in the threat but....
if you guys haven't realized this already, with most expansions lvl caps will are raised.
*****Thwack!!! Thwack!!! Thwack!!!****
Drops his shovel next to the horses bloodied corpse and walks away, shaking his head at the uselessness of it all.
D.
ya all need to relax if you don't want the expansion don't get it.quit bitchin bout it you don't want to play fine then don't play plain and simple wow does need cry babies dam you all think you can do better then do it otherwise quit bitching bout it oh this oh that just shut the hell up already you don't like wow then walk away from it.
So far i've only read about 4 or 5 pages on this thread and I see one major thing keep poping up that mostly everyone is complaining about in WoW
"THE GRIND"
If you really wanna complain about a grind fest go play FFXI for 6 months and tell me how long it takes you to level 1 job from level 1 to 75 Along with leveling up fesible subjobs for your main job. Now that is a grind fest with a cap of 200 exp per kill with only exp bonus increase per kill depending on your killing speed for your party. Not to mention You can't really solo very well unless you chose a job like Beastmaster or Puppetmaster (which requires you to already have one job level 30 and then under-go a tedius task to unlock the jobs)
WoW leveling is a cake walk. my first character I ever made on WoW. I was able to take to level 60 (when that was the cap) in 10 days. then the 60 - 70 cap only took another 5 - 6 days of playing. I really don't why even complain about the game at all for leveling since (even now they have that stupid Lv 20-60 Exp increased x2 or something like that and quest exp gained is also enchanced from Lv 30- 60).
As for Wrath of the Lich King Atleast new content is being released weather you like it or not and the Level cap being increased by another 10 levels gives you something to do.
"
Would you like some Cheese with that whine?"
A new "Hero" Type class coming out. Not a bad idea the same 6 - 8 classes to play is pretty boring anyway 3 years of a new game and nothing really exciting bout new classes untill now. I personaly feel that its a good thing they are adding a new class to the game. I'm quite sure ya'll are complaining that its gonna be over powered or needs to be nerfed ect. or be mad about the long ass quest required to open it up.
Its made to be a tedius class to open because its new and its suposta be good. but I supose if its too good its another job for all you rogues to cry about in PvP -- Oh I cant do nothing agesnt hunters because of flares or Oh No I cant do nothing to a frost mages because of Back to back Ice Block.
Stop trying to be an elitest and enjoy the game for what it is not to make yourself feel better because you beat up some 8 year old kids character in PvP screaming out "PwNd". Your Social life outside of this game must be hurting hard core if you gotta complaina bout these petty little things. you can't feel any satasfaction unless you're able to one shot kill someone 15 levels under you or with out running though noob areas killing level 10's at level 70 with out having whats considered the best of the best gear?
If not I would suggest to take a break from this game and get your prioritys straightened out their is a Word outside of World of Warcraft that can be just as fun and intresting if you let it be.
last but not least
--This is a game, dont get so pissy if you find something you dont like about it. Human beings make this from imagination land. It can't be perfect never will it be perfect.---
PS: you can flame me all you want over this because i wont be back to read this thread lol so have fun oh and feel free to make fun of my spelling and grammar errors.