To the OP, I think you will have to face the fact that you have simply "used up your goes". Most games have stayed the same but we change. Playing the same mechanics in a different graphical environment is not going to renew your enthusiasm. Your choices are a) Quit MMORPGS, b) Take a LONG break, 5 years should do it or c) be open minded and consider mmorpgs with mechanics that you might previously have thought you would not enjoy, as an example RvR/PvP.
If you insist on staying with those games with mechanics you are familiar and comfortable with or mass market lowest common denominator targeted games you are going to bore yourself to death.
The reason MMO games are not fun any more is because Everquest was made.
Before MMO games there were MUDs (MMO games, but just text). Most MUDs had VERY non-linear gameplay. There were levels in most, but for the most part they didn't really matter a whole lot.
Then there was a game called Ultima Online. UO pulled a lot of the things that people found fun in MUDs and made graphics for them. There were no levels at all. You gained skill points instead. There was no grinding (Unless you were a crafter). You just went out and did stuff... and you gained skills in whatever you were doing. Whether it was killing something, casting a spell, examining things, hiding, punching, stealing, whatever!!! You gained skill points in what were you doing in the game... Holy f*ck! What a brilliant idea! Lets reward the gamers for "playing" our game, instead of just killing sh*t!!
Also, someone with 50% in the same skill that you had 100% in could still kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. That's a far cry from today's PvP standard of "I'm 1 level higher than you, I auto-win yay!!!"
To this day, the original UO is the most innovative game on the MMO market.
Just think about that for a minute. The first mainstream MMO game is the most original in the last 10 years.
UO had some small success, I believe about 300,000 subscribers at it's peak after T2A came out.
But them something happened that ruined the MMO market to this day.. Everquest was released. This game was a grind fest, everything you wanted to do in the game you had to grind for levels to do it & the only way to gain said levels was to kill things. So we go from UO, where you get rewarded for doing anything in the game, to EQ, that punishes you for doing anything but grinding on monsters. But for some reason people played it, marginally more people then UO.
Game developers then looked at EQ's success and said, "Hey! I want to make money too! Lets make something like EQ, but just a little different!" And then skip ahead to today where an EQ clone called WoW has over 8 Million subscribers & there has never been a game as fun as UO in that entire time.
The End
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
The reason MMO games are not fun any more is because Everquest was made. Before MMO games there were MUDs (MMO games, but just text). Most MUDs had VERY non-linear gameplay. There were levels in most, but for the most part they didn't really matter a whole lot. Then there was a game called Ultima Online. UO pulled a lot of the things that people found fun in MUDs and made graphics for them. There were no levels at all. You gained skill points instead. There was no grinding (Unless you were a crafter). You just went out and did stuff... and you gained skills in whatever you were doing. Whether it was killing something, casting a spell, examining things, hiding, punching, stealing, whatever!!! You gained skill points in what were you doing in the game... Holy f*ck! What a brilliant idea! Lets reward the gamers for "playing" our game, instead of just killing sh*t!! Also, someone with 50% in the same skill that you had 100% in could still kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. That's a far cry from today's PvP standard of "I'm 1 level higher than you, I auto-win yay!!!" To this day, the original UO is the most innovative game on the MMO market. Just think about that for a minute. The first mainstream MMO game is the most original in the last 10 years. UO had some small success, I believe about 300,000 subscribers at it's peak after T2A came out. But them something happened that ruined the MMO market to this day.. Everquest was released. This game was a grind fest, everything you wanted to do in the game you had to grind for levels to do it & the only way to gain said levels was to kill things. So we go from UO, where you get rewarded for doing anything in the game, to EQ, that punishes you for doing anything but grinding on monsters. But for some reason people played it, marginally more people then UO. Game developers then looked at EQ's success and said, "Hey! I want to make money too! Lets make something like EQ, but just a little different!" And then skip ahead to today where an EQ clone called WoW has over 8 Million subscribers & there has never been a game as fun as UO in that entire time. The End
QFT We need more new sandbox like games whitout level and grindmadness, even to this day Uo is the best game i ever played.
Honestly, reading everyone's post here, the answer is dead obvious. You can't please everyone and it looks like so many people want so many different things, that companies are busting their butts trying to appeal to everyone. This is nigh impossible. It's like being a chef in a restaurant, you make a dish but not everyone is going to like it the exact same way. Difference with this analogy is that the Chef realizes this and doesn't try to cater to every single customer but to the vast majority.
Oh wait, yes that's what these companies are doing, the mainstream ones at least. I think the only way to solve this is number one stop complaining. Number two, realize companies are HUMAN, they won't be perfect, and number 3 play more than one if it doesn't suit you.
On a side note, development time is far too long, which adds to this discontent among the gaming populace. Much like movies, waiting for them is a frustrating aspect.
I like the effort in your Chef analogy, elocke, but it doesn't really work for MMO games.
When you go to a restaurant you have a choice. Lets say fish, chicken, steak, or lobster. You choose one of these & you're probably going to be satisfied with your choice and go home happy.
The problem with MMO games, though, is that the developers try to put the fish, chicken, steak, & lobster in a blender and then make it taste good afterwards. Everyone gets the same thing with different seasoning.
And to continue this food analogy further. Some companies try to take out just 1 thing (like PvP). The problem is you still have chicken, fish & lobster blended into an awful tasting soup.
If a company would just focus on one "meal" then we might have a great game, problem is, they all try to cram everything into every game.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I am tired of complaining and dealing with garbage games. What am I now doing? Developing my own game. I've already got a game engine, graphic engine, and i'm still working on the networking coding and i'm also making the graphic engine DX10 ready. It has taken me a few years (2 to be exact) to get it the way I want it, but that's also with breaks from working etc. This is with a 1 man team mind you. So bare with me LOL.
Anyway, i'm making a sad box game. Hell you gain skill from RUNNING, WALKING, SWIMMING, JUMPING! You even gain skill for doing freaken emotes.. the more you dance.. the better you are at it.. the more dance emotes you unlock, etc. I've got many plans and a lot of it is already functional. I'm not a good artist so i'm testing gameplay with programmer art, LOL, but it works for what I need at least. Also gear never becomes worthless.. it scales with your level (yes there IS levels, but that determines ONLY your base health, mana, energy.. NOTHING ELSE!.. it's used to gauge the difficulty of creatures basically). What this means is if you killed uber boss number 48 with your uber character.. you can take that gear and pass it to newbie character and he can use it. NOTHING IS BOUND TO YOU ALL THINGS CAN BE TRADED. That gameplay never made sense to me.. just dumb idea.. dumb dumb DUMB. Yes he will be stronger then average gear, BUT like I said gear scales with your level.. this too means it can work in reverse.
There are NO classes. Do wtfever you want. Grab a sword and throw some fireballs in plate armor. I don't care. You have the freedom. All gear is randomized too. It's HIGHLY unlikely you'll find 2 of the same exact item. So value of items can vary GREATLY.. allowing a healthy market.. so no one is after that 1 uber item.. there will be MANY uber items depending on your character build.
That's just a glimpse of my game. About 60% of those gameplay features are already implemented. So yes.. they will be there. I see no reason for them not to be. Also if you are worried about payment. You can play by 3 methods.
Free w/ Crystals = You can play free and buy crystals to spend in the item shop
Free = You can flat out play free.. never having to buy a dang thing..
Subscription = You can pay a monthly fee to have the ability to loot item shop crystals
Now ALL 3 types of people can be happy for once. Flexability is key IMHO. There will be hardcore and casual gameplay. Solo and group. Etc... A VERY indepth pet system that i'm not going to disclose at this time, because it's still being tweak.
I can't give a release, because well I have no clue when this will be done. Abosutely no art is done. It's all basic shapes just to use as fillers. So.. here's your release date: WHEN IT'S DONE.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
Developers keep creating dull, insipid titles which they both hype and everyone hyped as the next big thing.
Copying of previous titles to the letter
The online aspect is used to produce unpolished games which are later patched ( or sometimes not )
Cliche fantasy settings which developers seem to not want to depart from, maybe they think were too stupid
Emphasis on graphics and stupid words like "next gen", when gameplay is none existant and the idea of something being next gen is marketing hype.
Lack of maintenance on many titles before there thrown to the sh*&$y wayside.
The Eric Cartman's of the world that embrace the latest thing straight away only to discard it alongside the way in a fit of passive consumerism
Lack of recognition of various player bases and failure to address features they needs in either one single title or a series of titles based on the same engine.
Stupidity of people in general when it comes to games and the whole dumbing down of the ganeplay mechanics
Anything new is fevarantly attacked by those who like there inspid, closed, linear, non sand box worlds or uber end raiding goodness. Who then go on to slate aforementioned title before more consuming and moving on. Yes, the MMO communities as a whole is unimaginative and formulaic.
WOW's success, which every company is following right on to the rocks, as we all know there cannot be another exact WoW clone as successful.
On the bright side a lot of this is wider gaming and societal issues. But hey...
Character based skill progression. Learned abilities, skills, feats, arch types, etc.
I do not want to feel as if I have to compete with every other player.
A player who starts 2 years after release doesn't feel helpless due to no other players around his status.
SOLO content. No forced grouping, absolutely NO RAIDING. Not one thing in the game should require another player(s) to obtain it. I can socialize just fine without having to group with you!
Epeen City. A place where people can show off their accomplishments yet everyone else there knows they can obtian it as well!
No PVP.
Now this may not be the game for you, so don't play it. But I can bet there will be millions of casual, no-raiding players in the world who would flock to it in droves.
What I want in an MMO... No leveling. Character based skill progression. Learned abilities, skills, feats, arch types, etc. I do not want to feel as if I have to compete with every other player. A player who starts 2 years after release doesn't feel helpless due to no other players around his status. SOLO content. No forced grouping, absolutely NO RAIDING. Not one thing in the game should require another player(s) to obtain it. I can socialize just fine without having to group with you! Epeen City. A place where peopel can show off their accomplishment yet everyone else there know they can obtian it as well!
One thing I am sick of is fantasy RPG. I don't absolutely hate it. But there is too damn many of them that makes the whole thing bland.
What I truly like to see:
A 2d (yes, 2d, because the 3d ones lack the technology at the moment) space ship game where you can build your ship up and that you can explore in without the need to warp some where to travel. Really, all these space action/sim have like a little rooms they call a solar systems and some sort of warp device/function that sends you to the next. WHY CAN'T I JUST FLY THERE?! I don't care if it takes longer. The only thing I've seen master this is dark space (good game, though the lag was unbearable).
Also another thing I truly hate doing: fighting NPCs over and over and over. I want to fight players as often as possible with little draw backs to put me off from doing so. Also I don't care so much about graphics, but the cartoony graphics I've seen from most MMO space games are really off putting. A flying green space rat that is a green blob with pink things sticking out, wtf is that? (Star Sonata, although it's not bad if you love pve)
Only game I've enjoyed that has the feel to it was "Cosmic Rift's Rogue Trader zone". Sure it was doomed to fail by SOE seizing its hands upon the game. But if there was some thing similar with a much bigger map, more players and a little more developement... That would be the most awesome space combat experience right there.
I really don't see how the genre type makes a difference on why mmorpgs aren't fun anymore. Scifi or fantasy, I'm gonna play or try it, doesn't matter to me if its been done or not. What I really want is FUN gameplay, sandbox features, good community(nigh impossible in this day and age) good graphics, great music, and if possible STORY. Genre can be anything, I could care less.
I always say, if I could combine the best aspect of the top mmorpgs we'de have the perfect mmorpg. FFXI storyline/immersion/job system, SWG sandbox elements, crafting, WoW's simple yet fun gameplay, RVR pvp from WAR and DAOC, EQ2 collection, trophy and housing system, patch updates and expansions(speed of release), LoTR's graphics, Guild Wars armor and dye options, we'd have the PERFECT game. Cost to do the above? I guess astronomical at this point.
Wow, look at this thread--- three pages of 'woe-is-me', no innovation blah, blah, blah. The Independant game developers ARE being innovative. Play their games!!! Oh, that's right, you want a 30 million dollar franchise game that will only appeal to you and your five closest friends. Fun and innovation are not synonomous. Take EVE Online for example, probably the most successful Indie title. They have something like 160k subs. Enough for them to be financially viable, but they had to build that subscription base up over long years. Not everyone finds the game fun, but it is highly innovative. Does a SOE, EA, Turbine risk 30 or 40 million dollars on developing an EVE-like innovative game just to come out with 150k subs? That is the risk they're facing. Believing anything else is naive.
I played Seed, and I loved Seed.
The game was unfinished and buggy, but I loved that damn game. So much so, I was willing to pay $15 a month for it.
Only problem is that it closed. So now what? Go to another indie that'll just close again? Or worse, scam?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Its very simple every single mmo boils down to grind grind grind grind grind grind, content expansion makes all grinding done pointless, so you then get more grind grind grind grind grind grind. Then another game comes out with better graphics, and a different story line but in the end its just grind grind grind grind grind grind.
Once mmo developers realize if you make a game fun it will retain its subscribers with out the need to add pointless amounts of time consuming activities to the game then mmos will be fun.
edit: also once they realize that a difficult game is meant to be challenging not time consuming then mmos will be on par with the rest of the gaming industry. They are catching up though if you look at pirates of the burning sea, chronicals of spellborn etc
I played UO for many years, And in playing the newer MMOs I have not had the freedom and depth that UO offered. Not to mention the awesome community, and player driven econemy that UO had in its prime.
Wow, look at this thread--- three pages of 'woe-is-me',
I disagree, there are several themes running in most posts in this thread. This isnt just a "woe is me" thread but actually a pretty revealing state of the MMORPG industry. Scary thing is developers will still carry as as normal.
Indie Developers might do well to listen to this if they want another EVE online. I certainly see there success not in a mass WoW-esque market but niche MMO's with a fair to moderate profit.
There is an MMO being made that is innovative and fun, Citadel of Sorcery. Here is a link to a post in another thread that explains why... see post 17 on that page.
The reason MMO games are not fun any more is because Everquest was made. Before MMO games there were MUDs (MMO games, but just text). Most MUDs had VERY non-linear gameplay. There were levels in most, but for the most part they didn't really matter a whole lot. Then there was a game called Ultima Online. UO pulled a lot of the things that people found fun in MUDs and made graphics for them. There were no levels at all. You gained skill points instead. There was no grinding (Unless you were a crafter). You just went out and did stuff... and you gained skills in whatever you were doing. Whether it was killing something, casting a spell, examining things, hiding, punching, stealing, whatever!!! You gained skill points in what were you doing in the game... Holy f*ck! What a brilliant idea! Lets reward the gamers for "playing" our game, instead of just killing sh*t!! Also, someone with 50% in the same skill that you had 100% in could still kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. That's a far cry from today's PvP standard of "I'm 1 level higher than you, I auto-win yay!!!" To this day, the original UO is the most innovative game on the MMO market. Just think about that for a minute. The first mainstream MMO game is the most original in the last 10 years. UO had some small success, I believe about 300,000 subscribers at it's peak after T2A came out. But them something happened that ruined the MMO market to this day.. Everquest was released. This game was a grind fest, everything you wanted to do in the game you had to grind for levels to do it & the only way to gain said levels was to kill things. So we go from UO, where you get rewarded for doing anything in the game, to EQ, that punishes you for doing anything but grinding on monsters. But for some reason people played it, marginally more people then UO. Game developers then looked at EQ's success and said, "Hey! I want to make money too! Lets make something like EQ, but just a little different!" And then skip ahead to today where an EQ clone called WoW has over 8 Million subscribers & there has never been a game as fun as UO in that entire time. The End
This post is made of win.
EDIT: It should be noted, however, that even UOs developers thought, "Let's cash in on EQs success." And they got rid of a shit load of the fun parts of the game. (The PvP, mainly.)
My first was EQ. Did not like it too much. Played for a couple of months, then quit.
My next was SWG Pre-CU. That was awesome. Played just past the CU. I loved it.
I then tried MxO. It was no SWG.
I played CoX. Not so much fun for me.
Next was WoW. I played that for a year. Never reached max lvl. on 3 characters. I played to have fun, not power lvl. My PC broke, and so I quit. I really do not feel like going back. It was fun, but got real repetitive.
I am looking for the next SWG Pre-CU . . . minus the bugs.
I hope Darkfall will release before I die, as that seems to be the only thing that will help me.
Wow, look at this thread--- three pages of 'woe-is-me',
I disagree, there are several themes running in most posts in this thread. This isnt just a "woe is me" thread but actually a pretty revealing state of the MMORPG industry. Scary thing is developers will still carry as as normal.
Indie Developers might do well to listen to this if they want another EVE online. I certainly see there success not in a mass WoW-esque market but niche MMO's with a fair to moderate profit.
Exactly. This thread has brought out a ton of the MMORPG industry's problems nowadays. I sure didn't know how many things I actually didn't like about all the MMORPG games nowadays, but the ideas people have brought out sure have been interesting too read.
If only developers would listen to us, they would be making a lot of money. Or would they? I'm not sure if the costs outweigh the benefits. They could easily copy everything from another game, adding minor details, therefore maximizing profits, or they could spend a lot of time, energy, and money to create a truly innovative game that might appeal to everyone, or it may only appeal to the niche at MMORPG.com. Who knows... I guess people just don't want to take risks anymore, which, while understandable, is disappointing.
I think you hit it right on the nose... it all is recycled. Class, level, grind... its a staple of every mmorpg. The only real difference is the people aspect, (where your friends are) and graphics. If my friend play WoW then I'll probably play WoW, if they play Eve, then its Eve, etc.
Also it does seem that most games are of a fantasy origin. It would be nice for a few months to see a Wild West type of MMO. Maybe a Civil War MMO. Something that needs to be in the game is a social aspect, in my mind SWG had this the best the entertainer profs while boring were the easiest way to role play. Sadly I haven't seen a game with that since.
becaue the games out now are the same games that have been out since the late 80's . the games are pretty much MUDs with graphics hell even the commands are the same from way back then. its isnt hard to image how seeing the same thing for 20+ years may bore somre people.
I mean its just like the monopoly™ game, dont matter if its the star wars version / mcdonalds version/ sesame street version ... its still the exact same game.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Dull, boring, lacks innovation, mindless grind seems to be the most popular theme for most companies. Thats why i am going back to playing online rpgs instead. Hellgate London is next on the menu for me and I'll probably be alot more happier paying 9.95 a month for a great rpg rather than paying 15 bucks a month for dull recycled mmo games. Ofcourse this is just my opinon so to each their own
Comments
To the OP, I think you will have to face the fact that you have simply "used up your goes". Most games have stayed the same but we change. Playing the same mechanics in a different graphical environment is not going to renew your enthusiasm. Your choices are a) Quit MMORPGS, b) Take a LONG break, 5 years should do it or c) be open minded and consider mmorpgs with mechanics that you might previously have thought you would not enjoy, as an example RvR/PvP.
If you insist on staying with those games with mechanics you are familiar and comfortable with or mass market lowest common denominator targeted games you are going to bore yourself to death.
MMORPG
Ya work up a sweat clickin' your two buttons there, tubby?
The reason MMO games are not fun any more is because Everquest was made.
Before MMO games there were MUDs (MMO games, but just text). Most MUDs had VERY non-linear gameplay. There were levels in most, but for the most part they didn't really matter a whole lot.
Then there was a game called Ultima Online. UO pulled a lot of the things that people found fun in MUDs and made graphics for them. There were no levels at all. You gained skill points instead. There was no grinding (Unless you were a crafter). You just went out and did stuff... and you gained skills in whatever you were doing. Whether it was killing something, casting a spell, examining things, hiding, punching, stealing, whatever!!! You gained skill points in what were you doing in the game... Holy f*ck! What a brilliant idea! Lets reward the gamers for "playing" our game, instead of just killing sh*t!!
Also, someone with 50% in the same skill that you had 100% in could still kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. That's a far cry from today's PvP standard of "I'm 1 level higher than you, I auto-win yay!!!"
To this day, the original UO is the most innovative game on the MMO market.
Just think about that for a minute. The first mainstream MMO game is the most original in the last 10 years.
UO had some small success, I believe about 300,000 subscribers at it's peak after T2A came out.
But them something happened that ruined the MMO market to this day.. Everquest was released. This game was a grind fest, everything you wanted to do in the game you had to grind for levels to do it & the only way to gain said levels was to kill things. So we go from UO, where you get rewarded for doing anything in the game, to EQ, that punishes you for doing anything but grinding on monsters. But for some reason people played it, marginally more people then UO.
Game developers then looked at EQ's success and said, "Hey! I want to make money too! Lets make something like EQ, but just a little different!" And then skip ahead to today where an EQ clone called WoW has over 8 Million subscribers & there has never been a game as fun as UO in that entire time.
The End
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
QFT
We need more new sandbox like games whitout level and grindmadness, even to this day Uo is the best game i ever played.
Honestly, reading everyone's post here, the answer is dead obvious. You can't please everyone and it looks like so many people want so many different things, that companies are busting their butts trying to appeal to everyone. This is nigh impossible. It's like being a chef in a restaurant, you make a dish but not everyone is going to like it the exact same way. Difference with this analogy is that the Chef realizes this and doesn't try to cater to every single customer but to the vast majority.
Oh wait, yes that's what these companies are doing, the mainstream ones at least. I think the only way to solve this is number one stop complaining. Number two, realize companies are HUMAN, they won't be perfect, and number 3 play more than one if it doesn't suit you.
On a side note, development time is far too long, which adds to this discontent among the gaming populace. Much like movies, waiting for them is a frustrating aspect.
I like the effort in your Chef analogy, elocke, but it doesn't really work for MMO games.
When you go to a restaurant you have a choice. Lets say fish, chicken, steak, or lobster. You choose one of these & you're probably going to be satisfied with your choice and go home happy.
The problem with MMO games, though, is that the developers try to put the fish, chicken, steak, & lobster in a blender and then make it taste good afterwards. Everyone gets the same thing with different seasoning.
And to continue this food analogy further. Some companies try to take out just 1 thing (like PvP). The problem is you still have chicken, fish & lobster blended into an awful tasting soup.
If a company would just focus on one "meal" then we might have a great game, problem is, they all try to cram everything into every game.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Dameonk said it perfectly.
I am tired of complaining and dealing with garbage games. What am I now doing? Developing my own game. I've already got a game engine, graphic engine, and i'm still working on the networking coding and i'm also making the graphic engine DX10 ready. It has taken me a few years (2 to be exact) to get it the way I want it, but that's also with breaks from working etc. This is with a 1 man team mind you. So bare with me LOL.
Anyway, i'm making a sad box game. Hell you gain skill from RUNNING, WALKING, SWIMMING, JUMPING! You even gain skill for doing freaken emotes.. the more you dance.. the better you are at it.. the more dance emotes you unlock, etc. I've got many plans and a lot of it is already functional. I'm not a good artist so i'm testing gameplay with programmer art, LOL, but it works for what I need at least. Also gear never becomes worthless.. it scales with your level (yes there IS levels, but that determines ONLY your base health, mana, energy.. NOTHING ELSE!.. it's used to gauge the difficulty of creatures basically). What this means is if you killed uber boss number 48 with your uber character.. you can take that gear and pass it to newbie character and he can use it. NOTHING IS BOUND TO YOU ALL THINGS CAN BE TRADED. That gameplay never made sense to me.. just dumb idea.. dumb dumb DUMB. Yes he will be stronger then average gear, BUT like I said gear scales with your level.. this too means it can work in reverse.
There are NO classes. Do wtfever you want. Grab a sword and throw some fireballs in plate armor. I don't care. You have the freedom. All gear is randomized too. It's HIGHLY unlikely you'll find 2 of the same exact item. So value of items can vary GREATLY.. allowing a healthy market.. so no one is after that 1 uber item.. there will be MANY uber items depending on your character build.
That's just a glimpse of my game. About 60% of those gameplay features are already implemented. So yes.. they will be there. I see no reason for them not to be. Also if you are worried about payment. You can play by 3 methods.
Free w/ Crystals = You can play free and buy crystals to spend in the item shop
Free = You can flat out play free.. never having to buy a dang thing..
Subscription = You can pay a monthly fee to have the ability to loot item shop crystals
Now ALL 3 types of people can be happy for once. Flexability is key IMHO. There will be hardcore and casual gameplay. Solo and group. Etc... A VERY indepth pet system that i'm not going to disclose at this time, because it's still being tweak.
I can't give a release, because well I have no clue when this will be done. Abosutely no art is done. It's all basic shapes just to use as fillers. So.. here's your release date: WHEN IT'S DONE.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
MMO's are not fun anymore because :
Developers keep creating dull, insipid titles which they both hype and everyone hyped as the next big thing.
Copying of previous titles to the letter
The online aspect is used to produce unpolished games which are later patched ( or sometimes not )
Cliche fantasy settings which developers seem to not want to depart from, maybe they think were too stupid
Emphasis on graphics and stupid words like "next gen", when gameplay is none existant and the idea of something being next gen is marketing hype.
Lack of maintenance on many titles before there thrown to the sh*&$y wayside.
The Eric Cartman's of the world that embrace the latest thing straight away only to discard it alongside the way in a fit of passive consumerism
Lack of recognition of various player bases and failure to address features they needs in either one single title or a series of titles based on the same engine.
Stupidity of people in general when it comes to games and the whole dumbing down of the ganeplay mechanics
Anything new is fevarantly attacked by those who like there inspid, closed, linear, non sand box worlds or uber end raiding goodness. Who then go on to slate aforementioned title before more consuming and moving on. Yes, the MMO communities as a whole is unimaginative and formulaic.
WOW's success, which every company is following right on to the rocks, as we all know there cannot be another exact WoW clone as successful.
On the bright side a lot of this is wider gaming and societal issues. But hey...
What I want in an MMO...
No leveling.
Character based skill progression. Learned abilities, skills, feats, arch types, etc.
I do not want to feel as if I have to compete with every other player.
A player who starts 2 years after release doesn't feel helpless due to no other players around his status.
SOLO content. No forced grouping, absolutely NO RAIDING. Not one thing in the game should require another player(s) to obtain it. I can socialize just fine without having to group with you!
Epeen City. A place where people can show off their accomplishments yet everyone else there knows they can obtian it as well!
No PVP.
Now this may not be the game for you, so don't play it. But I can bet there will be millions of casual, no-raiding players in the world who would flock to it in droves.
My sentiments exactly!
RIP Orc Choppa
One thing I am sick of is fantasy RPG. I don't absolutely hate it. But there is too damn many of them that makes the whole thing bland.
What I truly like to see:
A 2d (yes, 2d, because the 3d ones lack the technology at the moment) space ship game where you can build your ship up and that you can explore in without the need to warp some where to travel. Really, all these space action/sim have like a little rooms they call a solar systems and some sort of warp device/function that sends you to the next. WHY CAN'T I JUST FLY THERE?! I don't care if it takes longer. The only thing I've seen master this is dark space (good game, though the lag was unbearable).
Also another thing I truly hate doing: fighting NPCs over and over and over. I want to fight players as often as possible with little draw backs to put me off from doing so. Also I don't care so much about graphics, but the cartoony graphics I've seen from most MMO space games are really off putting. A flying green space rat that is a green blob with pink things sticking out, wtf is that? (Star Sonata, although it's not bad if you love pve)
Only game I've enjoyed that has the feel to it was "Cosmic Rift's Rogue Trader zone". Sure it was doomed to fail by SOE seizing its hands upon the game. But if there was some thing similar with a much bigger map, more players and a little more developement... That would be the most awesome space combat experience right there.
/end up late rant
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
You only have that " Can't wait to get home and log-in" feeling for the first few years.
And usually your BEST MMO experience was your First game because it was so new and exciting finding these kinds of games:)
But even if you aren't having the fun you did years ago- these games are stilla HELLUVA lot more fun than sitting there watching TV every night.
I really don't see how the genre type makes a difference on why mmorpgs aren't fun anymore. Scifi or fantasy, I'm gonna play or try it, doesn't matter to me if its been done or not. What I really want is FUN gameplay, sandbox features, good community(nigh impossible in this day and age) good graphics, great music, and if possible STORY. Genre can be anything, I could care less.
I always say, if I could combine the best aspect of the top mmorpgs we'de have the perfect mmorpg. FFXI storyline/immersion/job system, SWG sandbox elements, crafting, WoW's simple yet fun gameplay, RVR pvp from WAR and DAOC, EQ2 collection, trophy and housing system, patch updates and expansions(speed of release), LoTR's graphics, Guild Wars armor and dye options, we'd have the PERFECT game. Cost to do the above? I guess astronomical at this point.
I played Seed, and I loved Seed.
The game was unfinished and buggy, but I loved that damn game. So much so, I was willing to pay $15 a month for it.
Only problem is that it closed. So now what? Go to another indie that'll just close again? Or worse, scam?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Its very simple every single mmo boils down to grind grind grind grind grind grind, content expansion makes all grinding done pointless, so you then get more grind grind grind grind grind grind. Then another game comes out with better graphics, and a different story line but in the end its just grind grind grind grind grind grind.
Once mmo developers realize if you make a game fun it will retain its subscribers with out the need to add pointless amounts of time consuming activities to the game then mmos will be fun.
edit: also once they realize that a difficult game is meant to be challenging not time consuming then mmos will be on par with the rest of the gaming industry. They are catching up though if you look at pirates of the burning sea, chronicals of spellborn etc
I played UO for many years, And in playing the newer MMOs I have not had the freedom and depth that UO offered. Not to mention the awesome community, and player driven econemy that UO had in its prime.
I disagree, there are several themes running in most posts in this thread. This isnt just a "woe is me" thread but actually a pretty revealing state of the MMORPG industry. Scary thing is developers will still carry as as normal.
Indie Developers might do well to listen to this if they want another EVE online. I certainly see there success not in a mass WoW-esque market but niche MMO's with a fair to moderate profit.
There is an MMO being made that is innovative and fun, Citadel of Sorcery. Here is a link to a post in another thread that explains why... see post 17 on that page.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/148812/page/2
This post is made of win.
EDIT: It should be noted, however, that even UOs developers thought, "Let's cash in on EQs success." And they got rid of a shit load of the fun parts of the game. (The PvP, mainly.)
My first was EQ. Did not like it too much. Played for a couple of months, then quit.
My next was SWG Pre-CU. That was awesome. Played just past the CU. I loved it.
I then tried MxO. It was no SWG.
I played CoX. Not so much fun for me.
Next was WoW. I played that for a year. Never reached max lvl. on 3 characters. I played to have fun, not power lvl. My PC broke, and so I quit. I really do not feel like going back. It was fun, but got real repetitive.
I am looking for the next SWG Pre-CU . . . minus the bugs.
I hope Darkfall will release before I die, as that seems to be the only thing that will help me.
I disagree, there are several themes running in most posts in this thread. This isnt just a "woe is me" thread but actually a pretty revealing state of the MMORPG industry. Scary thing is developers will still carry as as normal.
Indie Developers might do well to listen to this if they want another EVE online. I certainly see there success not in a mass WoW-esque market but niche MMO's with a fair to moderate profit.
Exactly. This thread has brought out a ton of the MMORPG industry's problems nowadays. I sure didn't know how many things I actually didn't like about all the MMORPG games nowadays, but the ideas people have brought out sure have been interesting too read.If only developers would listen to us, they would be making a lot of money. Or would they? I'm not sure if the costs outweigh the benefits. They could easily copy everything from another game, adding minor details, therefore maximizing profits, or they could spend a lot of time, energy, and money to create a truly innovative game that might appeal to everyone, or it may only appeal to the niche at MMORPG.com. Who knows... I guess people just don't want to take risks anymore, which, while understandable, is disappointing.
I think you hit it right on the nose... it all is recycled. Class, level, grind... its a staple of every mmorpg. The only real difference is the people aspect, (where your friends are) and graphics. If my friend play WoW then I'll probably play WoW, if they play Eve, then its Eve, etc.
Also it does seem that most games are of a fantasy origin. It would be nice for a few months to see a Wild West type of MMO. Maybe a Civil War MMO. Something that needs to be in the game is a social aspect, in my mind SWG had this the best the entertainer profs while boring were the easiest way to role play. Sadly I haven't seen a game with that since.
becaue the games out now are the same games that have been out since the late 80's . the games are pretty much MUDs with graphics hell even the commands are the same from way back then. its isnt hard to image how seeing the same thing for 20+ years may bore somre people.
I mean its just like the monopoly™ game, dont matter if its the star wars version / mcdonalds version/ sesame street version ... its still the exact same game.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Because the games out now and the ones come out down the road are just copying off each other unstead of making something more unique.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch
Now Playing : Black Desert Online
"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
Dull, boring, lacks innovation, mindless grind seems to be the most popular theme for most companies. Thats why i am going back to playing online rpgs instead. Hellgate London is next on the menu for me and I'll probably be alot more happier paying 9.95 a month for a great rpg rather than paying 15 bucks a month for dull recycled mmo games. Ofcourse this is just my opinon so to each their own