Well i am sad from this news. GnH offered something different from the normal fantasy gnome/elf BS. Say what you want they didn't bring anything real new other then minions. They weren't even a new idea when they were called henchies in guild wars... Some of the comments i read are glad this dead so they can conscentrate on STO. You folks are so delusional. Do you honestly beleive that this small company can pull off a title such as STO when they couldn't even make GnH a successful game. I guess since the game is cancelled the NDA is done. They couldn't even get a stable server going for GnH. The game was good but lacked alot. STO is in major trouble with PE as the makers. It will end up in the gutter right next to GnH!
I agree on the note about STO being in trouble... It certainly doesn't instill a lot of confidence to see them scrap this game after so much time and work went in to it. Perpetual is a joke.... how they got the star trek franchise is beyond me. They can't even manage to get a guild wars clone out the door... how can you people still be excited about the prospect of them making a star trek game.
On another note, who thinks SOE will buy the remains of GnH and release it along side all their other lackluster acquisitions?
Nearly 2 years late they finally decide to cancel this game. I was saying this concept was flawed from the beginning, as they were trying to be different just for the sake of being different. Too bad it took them $30m and over 5 wasted years to come to the same conclusion.
STO is already dead. They should just give up already.
this was their only shot. everything about STO that ive read screams "stupid concept" and "doomed to fail"
starting with the fact that its star trek. then go from that bad idea to an fps on the ground and eve style ship combat in space and it all just screams "we dont know what were doing, someone help us"
least they can all go work at linden labs down the street when this whole ship sinks.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Well i've got to admit I'm kinda bummed. I played a bunch in the last few weeks and was really enjoying the game. I thought the pokemon erm, i mean minion system, was really fun even if it was still buggy (curse your non healing ass Rufus). I thought the world was gorgeous as well. I really loved running around and exploring. FInally I also really liked some of the cooler combat animations that involved interaction between the fighting models.
With that said i'm not sure the game had staying power, at least for me. I was already feeling myself start to lose a bit of interest but that could have been the team fortress 2 calling. Aside from doing quests and sort of collecting pokemon, damnit i mean minions, there was no real meta game, nothing else to do. Also, the world felt empty but i suspect that was because they had none of their global or region chat channels working. Perhaps if that was done first so people online could discuss bugs ask for help and form groups, etc, there would have been better feedback from the community.
In the end, despite being suprised, i guess I shouldn't really be. With WAR and AoC and even chronicles of spellborn, GnH was going up against some stiff competition with games that have a lot more to offer, at least in the way of the meta game.
I love the people saying it was a bad game...Hmm, It's called beta not the finished product, I would of hated to see you test DAOC at the beta stages. I agree they need to focus on STO if they had to pick one because the name alone has a big following like SWG but I hope it turns out better.
I knew this was going to happen when I saw that they were desperate for testers, and couldn't even get rid of keys for free.
I really question the talents of these guys, and I can't help but smile a little over this because of the smug attitude they've had in interviews for both this and STO. Now the fact that they've been disrespectful to their community and fans that have criticized them in any way, shape or form (constructive or not) seems to be coming back to them and biting them in the ass.
I have heard there were beta-testers who could not even get the client to run.
Obviously there were people who were able to test that game - that's not the point. If your client doesn't even LOAD properly, you need ignore class balance, ignore art asset development, ignore quest writing and focus ALL of your resources on coders to work on the basic engine so that it at least boots up for most of your testers. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't even be making an online game.
I'm sure there are other developing MMORPGs listed on this site who also have beta-test clients that aren't loading for many of their players yet the developers continue to blindly go along as though it doesn't matter
Yes, it's a beta but it's not just a test of the game, but a test of the developers to see if they know anything about resource manangement and priorities. As zOMGREI points out, it looks like these guys were all talk with little to back it up. But those are usually the ones that project the most arrogance anyway.
'07 is proving to be quite the year for weeding out the chaff of MMORPGs, hasn't it? Now we get to look forward to the Tabula Rasa train wreck.
How can star trek online be perpetuals primary focus if they were near launching gods and heroes and pulling people from the STO team to work on GnH. That doesn't make much sense.
This was one of the first MMOs that I was interested in to get me back into playing MMo's. I liked the look and the concept of the whole Roman style game. I hope STO is not ruined like a lot of people are posting. Cuz their are plenty Trekkies waiting for it.
No surprize at all... Guess SOE didn't want it. Sounded like a boring game anyways... Roman Empire? Come on... Also, watch STO. Same thing will happen.
Lol, I hope your kidding, Greco-Roman mythology is awesome, and the concept was rather fresh in comparison to whats out there. Go play your elf.
Did you play the game?
Concept means jack-shit when the game is horrible.
I have never been more dissappointed about game news. This is truly sad. And putting effort into Star Trek is a bad decision, because it will flop for certain. If they think it will have success comparable to the mediocre success of Star Wars, they are fooling themselves.
Hopefully, another outfit will buy the rights and current product and finish GnH.
its obvious that Star Trek online is going to get alot of hype from trekkys.
Actually, it's the "trekkies" who are screaming at PE the loudest for butchering the concept of Star Trek.
Funny thing is, Mr. Daron Stinnett is nowhere to be found to answer questions about G&H or STO. I get the feeling that pompous little man is unemployed now.
"STO is not being made for Trekkies." and "There's still plenty of time to cancel your subscriptions." are not the sort of remarks you make to fans of Star Trek who are concerned with the way STOs' development seems to be planned. He sank his career by opening his mouth ( another Brad), and probably helped to end one game (G&H), if not both (G&H and STO).
You're kidding...he didn't actually SAY that, did he? (The Daron Stinnett quotes.) Dude...that's amazing. It's remarks like that that tend to lead to your MMO's launch day being accompanied by an orchestra of...crickets.
Undoubtedly the best move they could have made. This game will be crushed under WAR and AoC, and waiting it out for these games to lose their hype will definitely give this game a good start.
I guess Perpetual Entertainment publish this saying by purpose. They want to attract people's attention. I guess they are developing this game as theire schedule. And they will come back to say: Ok, we finish it now, we will launch it on xxxxx.
It is a good game, i can not believe they could put them "on indefinite hold".
I liked the G&H beta. It had nice gameplay and the minions were cool (much better than the stupid GW henchmen). It had a cool setting and nice world. The maps were not very open which was good (no endless running around the map or searching for an item or boss). There were many quests but I haven't noticed any long quest chains. It still had many problems (some movement problems, hard to click on mobs, some very stupid NPCs, game crashing, ...) but nothing that couldn't be fixed.
I think the main problem with G&H was that it was similar to WoW but had nothing to really pull players from WoW (or LotRO, etc..) to it. It would also be hard to compete with other WoW-like games which will come out in the future. Basically G&H would be a game for those who get bored with WoW (or similar games).
There was also no hype around it. When I got into the beta I really expected a crappy mmo. My friends said they don't even want to try it. But I was surprised. It wasn't bad. I think that with more work it could become a good game.
Well.. Perpetual was really too optimistic to work on 2 mmos at the same time. If they want to bring out STO they should have canceled G&H long time ago.
I also don't have much hope for STO. Star Trek just isn't a good world for a mmo. Sure.. it's huge and there could be many things to do. But.. did Kirk and Spock ever go around doing quests on their own just to earn money or some cool gear? I don't think so. It was never about gear and combat.
"Kill 10 and 5 to get new boots?" That isn't Star Trek.
Ofc.. it can have different gameplay and rewards... but then noone except the biggest Star Trek fans will play it.
Best thing they could have done. They left out so many important MMO qualities, it would have flopped big time even if they addressed the bugs. How can anyone make a MMO without tradeskills?
I expect someone will come out with a Roman themed MMO, PE just does not understand the MMO genre.
It does not look good for STO either, they are ignoring the lore. Can't believe that Paramount has not yanked the ST label from the game. Current design has so little relation to the ST lore it is ridiculous.
Best thing they could have done. They left out so many important MMO qualities, it would have flopped big time even if they addressed the bugs. How can anyone make a MMO without tradeskills?
That's a pretty good point you have. And while I thought about that exact same point myself I pondered if crafting is really necessary for G&H since it had some really good drop items as loot and some of the quest rewards were really outstanding. I currently play WOW and the crafting there is some what unbalanced with all the professions. It's more beneficial per say to be an Alchemist than a Leather worker since an alchemist can harvest pretty much all the stuff for their current level that is usuable to them where as a leather worker can't . Leather workers need materials that come from mobs 5-8 levels higher to them just to be able to make a item that is useable to them for their level.
For me crafting isnt really all that important ( even though I do it ) since any great gear ( armor and weapons ) that I have ever wore in any MMO from SWG, EQ II and WOW have been obtained from either questing for them or as dropped lootable items.
Long thread and I'll admit I didn't read every single post. So if I comment on something already commented on, I apologize now.
This could put a "black eye" on roman-ish games in the future. Mythic bailed on Imperator and now G&H has been shelved. A company considering making one may think twice as they will see two previous Roman Theme games never made it to release.
What I really think happened is standard American Corporate Greed. Mythic got a hold of the Warhammer franchise so dumped Imperator to focus on the one with better odds as a money-maker. Now Perpetual is doing the same, dumping one game for the more well-known Star Trek franchise. Pesonally, I was looking more forward to Imperator and G&H that I was WAR or STO.
Oh and I agree with a previous poster, part of the reason for dropping G&H was due to them taking on STO and they couldn't handle doing both.
I guess Perpetual Entertainment publish this saying by purpose. They want to attract people's attention. I guess they are developing this game as theire schedule. And they will come back to say: Ok, we finish it now, we will launch it on xxxxx. It is a good game, i can not believe they could put them "on indefinite hold".
#1 The game was not good, if you tested it all you would know it was garbage.
#2 They have laid off people multiple times, I highly doubt with the layoffs they are putting anyone to work on GnH when they are going to have to push STO to start earning some income. So far all they have is investors giving money.
#3 There are better ways of getting attention, say......making a good game. Obviosuly they are not capable of this.
#4 Believe it mate, the game is on "indefinite hold" aka all info was wiped and STO put in its place. You will never see GnH again.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
Comments
On another note, who thinks SOE will buy the remains of GnH and release it along side all their other lackluster acquisitions?
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
LOL
Nearly 2 years late they finally decide to cancel this game. I was saying this concept was flawed from the beginning, as they were trying to be different just for the sake of being different. Too bad it took them $30m and over 5 wasted years to come to the same conclusion.
STO is already dead. They should just give up already.
starting with the fact that its star trek. then go from that bad idea to an fps on the ground and eve style ship combat in space and it all just screams "we dont know what were doing, someone help us"
least they can all go work at linden labs down the street when this whole ship sinks.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Well i've got to admit I'm kinda bummed. I played a bunch in the last few weeks and was really enjoying the game. I thought the pokemon erm, i mean minion system, was really fun even if it was still buggy (curse your non healing ass Rufus). I thought the world was gorgeous as well. I really loved running around and exploring. FInally I also really liked some of the cooler combat animations that involved interaction between the fighting models.
With that said i'm not sure the game had staying power, at least for me. I was already feeling myself start to lose a bit of interest but that could have been the team fortress 2 calling. Aside from doing quests and sort of collecting pokemon, damnit i mean minions, there was no real meta game, nothing else to do. Also, the world felt empty but i suspect that was because they had none of their global or region chat channels working. Perhaps if that was done first so people online could discuss bugs ask for help and form groups, etc, there would have been better feedback from the community.
In the end, despite being suprised, i guess I shouldn't really be. With WAR and AoC and even chronicles of spellborn, GnH was going up against some stiff competition with games that have a lot more to offer, at least in the way of the meta game.
... transmitted on 100% recycled electrons ...
I love the people saying it was a bad game...Hmm, It's called beta not the finished product, I would of hated to see you test DAOC at the beta stages. I agree they need to focus on STO if they had to pick one because the name alone has a big following like SWG but I hope it turns out better.
I have heard there were beta-testers who could not even get the client to run.
Obviously there were people who were able to test that game - that's not the point. If your client doesn't even LOAD properly, you need ignore class balance, ignore art asset development, ignore quest writing and focus ALL of your resources on coders to work on the basic engine so that it at least boots up for most of your testers. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't even be making an online game.
I'm sure there are other developing MMORPGs listed on this site who also have beta-test clients that aren't loading for many of their players yet the developers continue to blindly go along as though it doesn't matter
Yes, it's a beta but it's not just a test of the game, but a test of the developers to see if they know anything about resource manangement and priorities. As zOMGREI points out, it looks like these guys were all talk with little to back it up. But those are usually the ones that project the most arrogance anyway.
'07 is proving to be quite the year for weeding out the chaff of MMORPGs, hasn't it? Now we get to look forward to the Tabula Rasa train wreck.
How can star trek online be perpetuals primary focus if they were near launching gods and heroes and pulling people from the STO team to work on GnH. That doesn't make much sense.
This was one of the first MMOs that I was interested in to get me back into playing MMo's. I liked the look and the concept of the whole Roman style game. I hope STO is not ruined like a lot of people are posting. Cuz their are plenty Trekkies waiting for it.
Lol, I hope your kidding, Greco-Roman mythology is awesome, and the concept was rather fresh in comparison to whats out there. Go play your elf.
Did you play the game?
Concept means jack-shit when the game is horrible.
I have never been more dissappointed about game news. This is truly sad. And putting effort into Star Trek is a bad decision, because it will flop for certain. If they think it will have success comparable to the mediocre success of Star Wars, they are fooling themselves.
Hopefully, another outfit will buy the rights and current product and finish GnH.
Actually, it's the "trekkies" who are screaming at PE the loudest for butchering the concept of Star Trek.
Funny thing is, Mr. Daron Stinnett is nowhere to be found to answer questions about G&H or STO. I get the feeling that pompous little man is unemployed now.
"STO is not being made for Trekkies." and "There's still plenty of time to cancel your subscriptions." are not the sort of remarks you make to fans of Star Trek who are concerned with the way STOs' development seems to be planned. He sank his career by opening his mouth ( another Brad), and probably helped to end one game (G&H), if not both (G&H and STO).
You're kidding...he didn't actually SAY that, did he? (The Daron Stinnett quotes.) Dude...that's amazing. It's remarks like that that tend to lead to your MMO's launch day being accompanied by an orchestra of...crickets.
Agreed.
Undoubtedly the best move they could have made. This game will be crushed under WAR and AoC, and waiting it out for these games to lose their hype will definitely give this game a good start.
I guess Perpetual Entertainment publish this saying by purpose. They want to attract people's attention. I guess they are developing this game as theire schedule. And they will come back to say: Ok, we finish it now, we will launch it on xxxxx.
It is a good game, i can not believe they could put them "on indefinite hold".
I for one feel no remorse or sadness as I feel they got what was coming to them.
Screw Perpetual, another SOE type of development company on my list. I was mildly interested in Star Trek, but now I will never touch that game.
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.
I liked the G&H beta. It had nice gameplay and the minions were cool (much better than the stupid GW henchmen). It had a cool setting and nice world. The maps were not very open which was good (no endless running around the map or searching for an item or boss). There were many quests but I haven't noticed any long quest chains. It still had many problems (some movement problems, hard to click on mobs, some very stupid NPCs, game crashing, ...) but nothing that couldn't be fixed.
I think the main problem with G&H was that it was similar to WoW but had nothing to really pull players from WoW (or LotRO, etc..) to it. It would also be hard to compete with other WoW-like games which will come out in the future. Basically G&H would be a game for those who get bored with WoW (or similar games).
There was also no hype around it. When I got into the beta I really expected a crappy mmo. My friends said they don't even want to try it. But I was surprised. It wasn't bad. I think that with more work it could become a good game.
Well.. Perpetual was really too optimistic to work on 2 mmos at the same time. If they want to bring out STO they should have canceled G&H long time ago.
I also don't have much hope for STO. Star Trek just isn't a good world for a mmo. Sure.. it's huge and there could be many things to do. But.. did Kirk and Spock ever go around doing quests on their own just to earn money or some cool gear? I don't think so. It was never about gear and combat.
"Kill 10
and 5 
to get new boots?" That isn't Star Trek.
Ofc.. it can have different gameplay and rewards... but then noone except the biggest Star Trek fans will play it.
Best thing they could have done. They left out so many important MMO qualities, it would have flopped big time even if they addressed the bugs. How can anyone make a MMO without tradeskills?
I expect someone will come out with a Roman themed MMO, PE just does not understand the MMO genre.
It does not look good for STO either, they are ignoring the lore. Can't believe that Paramount has not yanked the ST label from the game. Current design has so little relation to the ST lore it is ridiculous.
That's a pretty good point you have. And while I thought about that exact same point myself I pondered if crafting is really necessary for G&H since it had some really good drop items as loot and some of the quest rewards were really outstanding. I currently play WOW and the crafting there is some what unbalanced with all the professions. It's more beneficial per say to be an Alchemist than a Leather worker since an alchemist can harvest pretty much all the stuff for their current level that is usuable to them where as a leather worker can't . Leather workers need materials that come from mobs 5-8 levels higher to them just to be able to make a item that is useable to them for their level.
For me crafting isnt really all that important ( even though I do it ) since any great gear ( armor and weapons ) that I have ever wore in any MMO from SWG, EQ II and WOW have been obtained from either questing for them or as dropped lootable items.
Long thread and I'll admit I didn't read every single post. So if I comment on something already commented on, I apologize now.
This could put a "black eye" on roman-ish games in the future. Mythic bailed on Imperator and now G&H has been shelved. A company considering making one may think twice as they will see two previous Roman Theme games never made it to release.
What I really think happened is standard American Corporate Greed. Mythic got a hold of the Warhammer franchise so dumped Imperator to focus on the one with better odds as a money-maker. Now Perpetual is doing the same, dumping one game for the more well-known Star Trek franchise. Pesonally, I was looking more forward to Imperator and G&H that I was WAR or STO.
Oh and I agree with a previous poster, part of the reason for dropping G&H was due to them taking on STO and they couldn't handle doing both.
#2 They have laid off people multiple times, I highly doubt with the layoffs they are putting anyone to work on GnH when they are going to have to push STO to start earning some income. So far all they have is investors giving money.
#3 There are better ways of getting attention, say......making a good game. Obviosuly they are not capable of this.
#4 Believe it mate, the game is on "indefinite hold" aka all info was wiped and STO put in its place. You will never see GnH again.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan