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TCoS: Only MMO Getting It Right

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  • Ravel_RPRavel_RP Member Posts: 127
    Originally posted by bezado


     
     
    Fair enought, but how can you tell how much polish a game needs by simply looking at videos and reading? I find that statement quit unfair when you say the game needs a lot of polish. I mean I can never tell how much a game needs polishing or fixing by just looking at the videos and reading.

    It is a talent. Been polishing it on games like Spellborn. In the case of PotBS it looked to me that character combat was far from being finished, but since I have not been following that game as attentive as I have Spellborn, AoC and WAR, maybe I am at fault here. But, it is the impression I did get.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    I'm not saying don't check out the game. By all means look into it.  The art style is more then decent, the game play is questionable, the class choices are debateable, the lore is somewhat interesting.  I mean if you want to say which game sounds better between spellborn and the other two, spellborn promises some really great stuff. Frankly DarkFall sounds the most appealing to me on paper, but we all have yet to see what they offer.  Aiming your attacks just to end up having to roll through a skill bar doesn't make the combat revolutionary, it makes it almost pointless.  Instead of having a timer on skills they make you roll for them, it's really the same thing. The "chains" don't really bring anything Vanguard didn't already try to introduce, I mean ultimately its a jumble of different things just put into one package.  The only good thing about it, is you have a rolling bar, which allows you to slot certain skills at one time so you don't have a long bar at the bottom where you can select your skills. (at least this is what they boast)

    I'm not saying this game isn't worth anyones time it's still in my top 5 games coming out, and it's slotted one step higher on the list then DarkFall mainly because TCOS actually has something to show for their time. (whether it's what they promised or not, thats a different story). 

    I don't think this game is going to blow away any of the others, and here's the main reason why:

    People want to try new exciting games.

    This isn't going to be the end all of games, there are just about 5 really interesting games that all plan to come out in the matter of a year or so.  AoC, WAR, TCOS, DarkFall, Aion, all of these games are worth looking at.  When someone is playing TCOS and they see all the great stuff you can do in WAR that you can't do in TCOS, they might want to give it a try.  I think the millions of MMO players are going to start to fan out into a more dispersed group instead of spending all their time with WoW.  TCOS will get some, but I don't think it's going to be the biggest hitter of the new MMO's



  • Ravel_RPRavel_RP Member Posts: 127
    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    This isn't going to be the end all of games, there are just about 5 really interesting games that all plan to come out in the matter of a year or so.  AoC, WAR, TCOS, DarkFall, Aion, all of these games are worth looking at.  When someone is playing TCOS and they see all the great stuff you can do in WAR that you can't do in TCOS, they might want to give it a try.  I think the millions of MMO players are going to start to fan out into a more dispersed group instead of spending all their time with WoW.  TCOS will get some, but I don't think it's going to be the biggest hitter of the new MMO's

    Difficult to predict, but I think all of these games will draw their audiences. Problem with AoC, WAR and Darkfall is that they are much stronger overlapping each other than PotBS, TcoS and Aion. On the other hand people might be in for something new and with that crowd TCoS is a promising candidate. But who knows.

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  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

    Combat is based on your skill-DECK, as you might be aware of there's a couple conceptual card-games around the world that apply this term. Basically, it comes down to selecting cards, in combinations that fit your playstyle. The best example of this is Magic the Gathering, because that's the longest living and best-known cardgame available.

    Basically, you have a bunch of cards, that are your starter cards. Then you have the backbone of your deck, which are the main-abilities, from which you bring forth your combo's and you have some heavy finishers, to which you hang on, untill the moment arises where you have a breakpoint in combat.

    Also, combat in TCoS is about aiming ( your mouse ) and it's not click and select.

    So in other words, justl ike in Magic the Gathering, the developers can expand skills, without endangering balance. You simply have a max of x openers, y backbones and z finishers you can use, so you can't ever have "too many skills" and you'll have to select them carefully.

    The difference between a firebased(red) deck and a waterbased(blue) deck in Magic the Gathering is also very huge.

     

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Aristea


    Combat is based on your skill-DECK, as you might be aware of there's a couple conceptual card-games around the world that apply this term. Basically, it comes down to selecting cards, in combinations that fit your playstyle. The best example of this is Magic the Gathering, because that's the longest living and best-known cardgame available.
    Basically, you have a bunch of cards, that are your starter cards. Then you have the backbone of your deck, which are the main-abilities, from which you bring forth your combo's and you have some heavy finishers, to which you hang on, untill the moment arises where you have a breakpoint in combat.
    Also, combat in TCoS is about aiming ( your mouse ) and it's not click and select.
    So in other words, justl ike in Magic the Gathering, the developers can expand skills, without endangering balance. You simply have a max of x openers, y backbones and z finishers you can use, so you can't ever have "too many skills" and you'll have to select them carefully.
    The difference between a firebased(red) deck and a waterbased(blue) deck in Magic the Gathering is also very huge.
     

    I've never really been interesting in Magic the Gathering, or any card games really.  The thing is, if you are aiming with your mouse and selecting your skills with (your number keys?)  Then what do you do if you need to dodge, or run after someone?



  • gerhard45gerhard45 Member Posts: 44

    No Healer?

    This Game  can only be good then

  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181
    Originally posted by maskedweasel


     
    Originally posted by Aristea


    Combat is based on your skill-DECK, as you might be aware of there's a couple conceptual card-games around the world that apply this term. Basically, it comes down to selecting cards, in combinations that fit your playstyle. The best example of this is Magic the Gathering, because that's the longest living and best-known cardgame available.
    Basically, you have a bunch of cards, that are your starter cards. Then you have the backbone of your deck, which are the main-abilities, from which you bring forth your combo's and you have some heavy finishers, to which you hang on, untill the moment arises where you have a breakpoint in combat.
    Also, combat in TCoS is about aiming ( your mouse ) and it's not click and select.
    So in other words, justl ike in Magic the Gathering, the developers can expand skills, without endangering balance. You simply have a max of x openers, y backbones and z finishers you can use, so you can't ever have "too many skills" and you'll have to select them carefully.
    The difference between a firebased(red) deck and a waterbased(blue) deck in Magic the Gathering is also very huge.
     

     

    I've never really been interesting in Magic the Gathering, or any card games really.  The thing is, if you are aiming with your mouse and selecting your skills with (your number keys?)  Then what do you do if you need to dodge, or run after someone?

    You move away.

     

    It's almost shocking, I know.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    So you move away using wasd while keeping your mouse targeted and hitting the number keys to attack.  I think you're going to be missing a hand or two extra in there.



  • rishakirishaki Member Posts: 181

    Originally posted by Pontifus


    No healer class?
    They're not getting my money or my time, then.
    And I had such high hopes for Spellborn, too.

     

    There will be healer, but a hybrid kind. But if you want you can place a heal spell on each tire of your deck.

    s. I love being a healer, i think its more fun  than being up front killing stuff. As a healer i can also see how good players really are since i notice everything they do. I mostly play with frindes and i help them out when i see them fuck up :) Ofc pug can be rude but remember its kids we are dealing with and if acting mature it will work out for the better most of the times.

     

    Isuess that i had with healer in previus games is .

    1. Ppl spam me to joi groups ect, this can  become a problem since i end up doing stuff that i really dont want to do just to help frindes out. Better not making to much frindes :S

    2. Hard to solo, some stuff i want to do alone. In wow all i could do was farm herbs ect rest i needed help with or els it took like 20 times longer.  I dont want to make an alt to solo, i want to do it myself sometimes.. whitout to much pain.

    Everything els i like about being a healer except being healer in LOTRO ,  thiere healing class was really boring.

  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

     

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    So you move away using wasd while keeping your mouse targeted and hitting the number keys to attack.  I think you're going to be missing a hand or two extra in there.

     

    Number keys are for nubs :) no offense.

     

    Assuming you played WoW and probably something low-difficulty, like a caster or hunter, you might come a long way using the number keys while using WASD, but playing a tank, like I have for 2 years, you need some serious skill to be able to pull off the fireworks. WASD movement, but QERTFGHZX1,2,3,4 and ~ + any of those in combination with alt and ctrl.

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  • NetzokoNetzoko Member Posts: 1,271

    Originally posted by Aristea

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


     
    Originally posted by Aristea


    Combat is based on your skill-DECK, as you might be aware of there's a couple conceptual card-games around the world that apply this term. Basically, it comes down to selecting cards, in combinations that fit your playstyle. The best example of this is Magic the Gathering, because that's the longest living and best-known cardgame available.
    Basically, you have a bunch of cards, that are your starter cards. Then you have the backbone of your deck, which are the main-abilities, from which you bring forth your combo's and you have some heavy finishers, to which you hang on, untill the moment arises where you have a breakpoint in combat.
    Also, combat in TCoS is about aiming ( your mouse ) and it's not click and select.
    So in other words, justl ike in Magic the Gathering, the developers can expand skills, without endangering balance. You simply have a max of x openers, y backbones and z finishers you can use, so you can't ever have "too many skills" and you'll have to select them carefully.
    The difference between a firebased(red) deck and a waterbased(blue) deck in Magic the Gathering is also very huge.
     

     

    I've never really been interesting in Magic the Gathering, or any card games really.  The thing is, if you are aiming with your mouse and selecting your skills with (your number keys?)  Then what do you do if you need to dodge, or run after someone?

    You move away.

     

    It's almost shocking, I know.

    Correct, it has skill buttons, but they don't automatically hit the selected target. I like to think of it like Diablo 2, it's the game the system reminds me of the most.  You can see a fireball flying towards you, but you can move your avatar out of the way and avoid it completely.

     

    As for some of the comments about people liking being a healer... You can still heal, but every class can do it. I see this is a positive point because groups don't have to struggle for hours trying to find a healer before they can do a dungeon. I remember having a terrible time trying to find a damn priest in WoW.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    So you move away using wasd while keeping your mouse targeted and hitting the number keys to attack.  I think you're going to be missing a hand or two extra in there.

     

    Number keys are for nubs :) no offense.

     

    Assuming you played WoW and probably something low-difficulty, like a caster or hunter, you might come a long way using the number keys while using WASD, but playing a tank, like I have for 2 years, you need some serious skill to be able to pull off the fireworks. WASD movement, but QERTFGHZX1,2,3,4 and ~ + any of those in combination with alt and ctrl.



    You're thinking of WoW, this has a rolling skill deck, you only have 5 choices at a time.  You also have to aim while using them.  Thankfully it will be a different experience compared to WoW.



  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

     

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    So you move away using wasd while keeping your mouse targeted and hitting the number keys to attack.  I think you're going to be missing a hand or two extra in there.

     

    Number keys are for nubs :) no offense.

     

    Assuming you played WoW and probably something low-difficulty, like a caster or hunter, you might come a long way using the number keys while using WASD, but playing a tank, like I have for 2 years, you need some serious skill to be able to pull off the fireworks. WASD movement, but QERTFGHZX1,2,3,4 and ~ + any of those in combination with alt and ctrl.



    You're thinking of WoW, this has a rolling skill deck, you only have 5 choices at a time.  You also have to aim while using them.  Thankfully it will be a different experience compared to WoW.

     

    I'm sorry, but I thought you were referring to the fact that you had to use numbers with WASD, while I just told you, that you don't. I could be wrong of course, about you implying the first and me correcting with the latter, but, I'm not.

    The 5 skill ladder is publicly known and completely irrelevant to the point.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    So you move away using wasd while keeping your mouse targeted and hitting the number keys to attack.  I think you're going to be missing a hand or two extra in there.

     

    Number keys are for nubs :) no offense.

     

    Assuming you played WoW and probably something low-difficulty, like a caster or hunter, you might come a long way using the number keys while using WASD, but playing a tank, like I have for 2 years, you need some serious skill to be able to pull off the fireworks. WASD movement, but QERTFGHZX1,2,3,4 and ~ + any of those in combination with alt and ctrl.



    You're thinking of WoW, this has a rolling skill deck, you only have 5 choices at a time.  You also have to aim while using them.  Thankfully it will be a different experience compared to WoW.

     

    I'm sorry, but I thought you were referring to the fact that you had to use numbers with WASD, while I just told you, that you don't. I could be wrong of course, about you implying the first and me correcting with the latter, but, I'm not.

    The 5 skill ladder is publicly known and completely irrelevant to the point.



    The reason I'm pointing it out (so noone gets confused) is if you are aiming with your mouse.  walking with your wasd keys, and still have to use the number slots 1-5 to attack, it makes the combat slightly more complicated.  Sure you could remap the keys (if they allow it) . But the only real way to tell how great it will be is to play it right?



  • fantarosfantaros Member Posts: 394

    As far as skills are concerned i read somewhere that u can hotkey everything, meaning you are not consticted to using the number keys.

     

    All classes will have access to some kind of healing spells. Does that mean u cannot be a healer? Certainly not! Some classes will have access to more and better healing spells than others. U can can spec for healing if u want to.  And sincerely i dont think that giving the tank a self heal on a timer is gonna cripple the need for healers at all. Will the rogue be able to heal? yes. Will it be group efficient for the rogue to act as the grp's healer? .....

  • AristeaAristea Member Posts: 181

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Aristea


     
    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    So you move away using wasd while keeping your mouse targeted and hitting the number keys to attack.  I think you're going to be missing a hand or two extra in there.

     

     

     

     and still have to use the number slots 1-5 to attack

    I just explained twice that you don't and still you say it again oO

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  • IndeedIndeed Member Posts: 62

    You can also allocate your skills in that way that you stretch your index finger to get them off, like E,R,T,F,G on qwertz-keys. Basically two hands are enough but if you are a heavy smoker an additional hand comes in handy.

  • mutantmagnetmutantmagnet Member Posts: 274


    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Netzoko The second key element is that there's no stupid healer classes. Yes, no more will some poor soul be forced to roll a healer to get a group, then stand in the back and push buttons. In TCoS, everyone heals.

    Thank you very much, another reason to ignore this game.
    I want to play an RPG, not another solo game with glorified multiplayer.


    You have to look at the abilities they listed so far. Everyone heals but everyone heals differently.


    Rune Mages has a heal that works only when allied players stand on top of rune they drew and deal damage to an enemy.
    Skinshifters have a heal that only works if the target dies in eight seconds.

    To see more class abilities I suggest you go here.

  • GilgameeshGilgameesh Member UncommonPosts: 412

     

    Originally posted by ste2000

    Originally posted by Netzoko



    The second key element is that there's no stupid healer classes. Yes, no more will some poor soul be forced to roll a healer to get a group, then stand in the back and push buttons. In TCoS, everyone heals.




    Thank you very much, another reason to ignore this game.

    I want to play an RPG, not another solo game with glorified multiplayer.

     

    Uhm, i think would be much better looking at the official site, read what the game offers and then decide if it worth the money and time or not.

    It seems to me the game has some interresting innovation compared at the actual market.

    Listen, try and decide when you really have a knowledge of it. Ignoring in advance don't give you any knowledge of what you could miss or not.

     

     

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    Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org

  • PanturaPantura Member Posts: 54

    It's funny you should mention that having a healbot class/few classes is what makes MMO an MMO. That totally the opposite of what I think.

    I can't think of anything more freshening that having no dedicated healers. Of course we've been told that the Void Seer will have the best starting point to be a good healer but everyone still can and have to help out keeping their friends alive.

    So far looking at the skills we're shown from the classes, every class has skills that are really good if either someone else has debuffed an opponent for you or you debuff an enemy for your friend.

    Edit: You should really check www.tcos.com/news/skillpop/skills_overview.html if you haven't done it yet.

  • Dis_OrdurDis_Ordur Member Posts: 1,501

    Isn't this game speculated to be Vaporware?

    Any game that has pushed back beta AND release as much as this game is indicating of some problems.  Does TCoS have a publisher yet? 

    Personally, I predict a vaporware version of Ryzom...

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  • saiviorsaivior Member Posts: 57

    The only problem with you claiming it to be vaporware is that they just signed a large production deal with Frogster for distributing TCoS in Asia. You can read about the deal here.

    What they are missing is a US publisher, though, and I think that is why they keep pushing back the release date.

  • Ravel_RPRavel_RP Member Posts: 127
    Originally posted by saivior


    The only problem with you claiming it to be vaporware is that they just signed a large production deal with Frogster for distributing TCoS in Asia. You can read about the deal here.



    The deal with Frogster is already a year old. The deal in question here is a deal of Frogster with a partner in Japan.

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  • ZorvanZorvan Member CommonPosts: 8,912

    When the game launches, and manages to retain 90% of its subscriptions when the first wave of free 30 day subs is over, then we'll say it got it right. Until then its just another game on the horizon.

  • KensaikenKensaiken Member Posts: 2

    A lot of FPS games have you; moving with your WASD, aiming with your mouse, firing (sometimes two modes of fire or more), jumping and crouching, all during combat.

    So, it shouldn't be difficult. And if your mouse has 7-10 buttons, then it'll be even easier.

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