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LOTRO like combat?
Player_420
Member Posts: 686
I must admit im interested in the game. But I really see LOTRO style/WOW style combat....something more fast and fun like EQ2 style or even Vanguards would be nice...but even those arent that great...I hope over these next two months they really revise their combat system for the idea that this game will revolve around pvp
I play all ghame
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I hope in these 2 months they are going to change the combat system to more challenge style. With the current combat system everyone will just spam morales as soon as they pop up anyway. Maybe add actions like dodge/block/parry to make combat more realistic so when ppl are out of action bar they can go to defense mode instead of doing none style swing or sitting there doing nothing as a caster.
The only game that has ever implemented dodging is ac1, which was actually a bug in their code which devs (as it always happens) decided to make into a "design" of the game. Also, aoc is trying to do that to, but aoc isn't realeased so meh. So, chances of war implementing a none diec roll based dodge/parry/block are pretty much 0.
How is spamign morale abilities as soon as they build up is any different than timer dumping? Except you can sit afk for 10min, get all your timers up, run out, timer dump like a noob, kill someone with little they could do about it, then go afk for another 10 min (actually happens decently often in daoc atm) Morale abilities also open up some strategy that can't be found with timers. This like styles/auras that decrease enemy morale gain or increase your own, it just adds one more "utility" for classes other than damage, healing or cc.
Depending on how morale works (they seemed to go through at least 2 different versions) one might want to hold of on using lower tier morale abilities and save up for the big ones. Again, this is a tactic that can't be found in a game with timers, since you just timer dump if they are up or cry if they aren't.
Morale also puts people on equal level, when you engage another group, both your morales are at 0, instead of perhams them having all timers up while most of yours are down because you just fought another group. It also makes adding on people's fight a risky move, since while your morale is at 0 their might have already build up theirs and would have a decent advantage on anyone who wanted to add for easy rps
last but not least, War uses action points instead of mana/endurence, action points regen very fast. According to people who played at game shows, you can spam styles for 20-30 seconds none stop, and even then it regens to full in about 15-20 seconds. So I doubt you'll be standing there doign nothign or auto attacking all that often.
All in all, was has a very good combat system with some innovation in the form of morale. Aside from active dodging (which probably cannot work in large scale fights anyway) I am not sure what else people could want from a combat system.
I'm sorry man but there isnt really anything innovative about their combat system. I think a AoC type combat system mixed with active dodging, parrying and shield blocking would make one badass system. Make it more real then just spamming hotkeys. I think WaR and AoC both have incredible ideas wish somehow they can find a way to combine both.
I'm not interested in learning to block, dodge or parry, and more interested in thinking about what's the better combo/counter to the current class of player I'm facing. (yes, I guess thats the more traditional MMO style ala EQ, but I like it, so no reason to change from my perspective)
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Aoc has an in-your-face innovative combat. War is going more with evolutionary approach (to everything not just combat) as such, you will see familiar combat but with some new twists and new ideas. Morale replacing long timered abilities is one of those. Using fast regenerating action points instead of slow regened mana is another one. Most classes having ither a sub system besides (like grudge, fury etc) or somethign else, like blork's combo system is yet another one (yes wow tried this too, but wow only has 2 melee classes)
So, you can't really highlight one part of war's combat and claim it's awesome, it's the combination of all those things, that in theory, should produce a fun combat system, that is new enaugh for people to enjoy it but stil familiar enaugh so people don't spend the first half an hour trying to figure how to do things.
Aoc on the other hand has very clear things that make it's combat innovative. Real time combat (not really real time imo, but meh) "active dodging" etc, great for marketing but who knows how it will play out, especially once you get 50 people on your screen and start laging.
I guess insce I like daoc's combat system, and think wow's combat system is pretty good, I am looking forward to war's combat system since it's a mix of the two plus some new ideas. There are of course people who apparently tired of auto attack (who knows why) and who want a more twitch based game to show of their skill. I feel that a good mmo can provide plenty of ways to show one's skill withotu making it an fps game.
I'm sorry man but there isnt really anything innovative about their combat system. I think a AoC type combat system mixed with active dodging, parrying and shield blocking would make one badass system. Make it more real then just spamming hotkeys. I think WaR and AoC both have incredible ideas wish somehow they can find a way to combine both.
If by active you mean the character does it and not the player sure thing. I am not as quick or agile or strong as my character. I expect IT to do those actions for me... you know because this is a RPG.
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lol i think its funny the people who say they dont want an auto attack i mean if u dont have auto attack what are u gonna do sit there until u get action points or mana back. anyways the combat system is a lot diffrent from wows in the sense that the serious dmg skills or actions are instead the top ranked morale abilities where in comparison WOWs serious dmg spells / attacks like MS and POM pyro are almost spammable so THINK before u say something is like something else. cause the fact is WARs combat system doesnt truelly have much in common with WOW's
Have you ever thought about having to press buttons to attack? You know, like abilities. And the fact that you get some abilities earlier than others, or that you kill your enemy slower of faster doesn't change the way the system works. It certainly changes the way you play with it, but not its principles. In that sense, all combat systems in fantasy games and most others are variations upon the EQ model. That means WAR has similar combat to WoW in the same way WoW has similar combat to EQ or EQ 2. Not exactly the same, but still similar. That system works wonders for PvE, but for a game which is PvP-driven, I'd say we need a lot more activity and dynamism in the system. Maybe not dodging, and "real time" stuff, but sorts of counterattacks and circumstancial abilities which can be implemented in a turn-based system to give it a little more flavor and adrenaline.
Have you ever thought about having to press buttons to attack? You know, like abilities. And the fact that you get some abilities earlier than others, or that you kill your enemy slower of faster doesn't change the way the system works. It certainly changes the way you play with it, but not its principles. In that sense, all combat systems in fantasy games and most others are variations upon the EQ model. That means WAR has similar combat to WoW in the same way WoW has similar combat to EQ or EQ 2. Not exactly the same, but still similar. That system works wonders for PvE, but for a game which is PvP-driven, I'd say we need a lot more activity and dynamism in the system. Maybe not dodging, and "real time" stuff, but sorts of counterattacks and circumstancial abilities which can be implemented in a turn-based system to give it a little more flavor and adrenaline.
i never said i dont use buttons to do attacks what i meant was that after uve used up all ur mana or action points what will u do with out auto attack.....ud just sit there. and by counter attacks are u meaning crap like overpower for warriors and wow and stuff. if ur meaning stuff like that and im willing to bet WAR will having something along those lines
Yes the combat system has to be good especially since the game is so PVP oriented. Adding counter attacks or a combination of fighting styles from various MMOs might give it the flare it needs to be a good game.
Its just refreshing to see a game like WAR to come out. There combat is relatively innovative and different. I stop playing games like this due to them all looking the same and I stuck with EVE for 4 years. Now I am looking at leaving the game for this and a few other MMO's coming out. I am pretty hyped out WAR its a refreshing change from the boring MMO's out currently.
Daoc had the same basic combat as eq (auto attack etc) though it had style chains which was quite innovative for its time, and still is a pretty unique system. It also has/had some of the best group based pvp. So I am not sure if an mmo *needs* a more active system to have good pvp combat, perhaps soem people want an mmo with a more active combat system, but that certanly doesn't mean that a more active system is what a pvp based mmo needs.
Combat system just needs to be fun and have some things to make it fun. For example, in daoc, you had dps/cc/healing, but you also had peel'ers and with toa bodyguards, as well as interupters/floater (basicaly a player whose role in a group was to run aroudn and interupt as many people as one could) Because of the nature of open rvr (some battles would span an entire "zone" ) there were quite a few tactics developed for group pvp, both 8v8 and 8vszerg.
In comparison, look at wow, it has the same dps/cc/heals, but it lacks daoc's (annoying) interupt system, so there is really no floater. Because of how soft cc (snares) is done in wow, it's almost impossible to peel with it (if you snare someone, chances are their target is snared too, so you can't peel them) and there is nothing like bodyguard, and so you don't really have a peeler ither (you do have cc users who peel, but that's usually more in the basic "cc everyone" sense rather than daocs where you actually had someone whose job was to peel)
So, daoc's group combat had 5 different "aspects" if you will, all of which had effect on an outcome of a fight, where as wow has only 3, add to that that wow due to beign a pve game has an out of wack damage/hp ratio for players, and wow's group combat, while fun, feels lackign compared to daoc's.
You don't need active dodging or whatever, you just need to have things that don't fall into cc/dps/heal but still have effect on a fight, to make the combat more in depth and more fun. Seems like war should have some of those extra things, whcih should make war's combat pretty fun
i agree with ur statement about wows dmg to health ratio flipping mages even, before TBC and the health buffs to every 1, would pyroblast u for 8k then POM pyro u again for 5k like jesus christ
There is not that much difference on Guild Wars system and WOWs. Skills with cooldown, casting time manacost and so on. Standard stuff.
And Yet on is good for PVE and another is great for PvP.
So basicly what WAR needs is not new stuff to be able to be great for RvR , but balance!
well actually yes WAR needs new stuff cause then whats the point of goin to a new game if it look and feels the same as the one u just quite. and if u mean balance between PVE and PVP that wont happen when the game background is nothing but fighting and the title of the game implies fighting each other
well actually yes WAR needs new stuff cause then whats the point of goin to a new game if it look and feels the same as the one u just quite. and if u mean balance between PVE and PVP that wont happen when the game background is nothing but fighting and the title of the game implies fighting each other
Don't get off topic here ! In this topic some people raises consern that the system is not suited for PvP, without inventions and new stuff. This is done with the usual WoW comparison. And if your experience comes from WoW its quite possible to feel that something is missing in PvP. And then blame the standard skill set and call for new stuff!
My point is that the standard system in MMOs have produced both good PvE (WOW as exsample) and PVP games (guild Wars as exsample others mention DAoC) and therefore new stuff is not a MUST to make a good RvR. But implementation and balance is. As not many MMO's yet have got a good balance between PvE and PvP, within the standard frame of skills with manacost, cooldown and so on.
New stuff can be nice, but is it needed? (and we are still talking about the standard skill setup) New stuf is also a risk because it can fail to improve the game. And btw how many FPS does come with new stuff when it comes to game mechanicsth ? And people still goes for the newest one!
Active dodge/parry/miss has problems with it. Like say are casters going to move while casting so they can d/p/m?
RPGs have been about thought and strategy for the most part over speed like FPS. WoW really moved more to a twitch style of play. It takes takes one type of skill and replaces it with another. Personally I like slower combat with more thought into what you do next over just doing the highest dmg attack I can before the other guy does his.
You also lose a lot of possible customers. There are loads of MMORPG players that are not able to play twitch type games. So as far as making money do you choose to make a game few can play or do you make a game that almost anyone can play, even the fans of twitch gaming?
IMO beating someone in pvp because I outsmarted them is much more fun then beating them because I was able to spam my damage abilities faster.
Also have to consider when looking at people fighting in WAR most are new to the game, many of the videos you see are from game shows where people have never played before. If for example you put 20 people in a Warsong Gulch match in Warcraft that had never played before but had played MMOs before so had the general idea of how it worked what do you think that combat would look like? I am willing to bet slow, most likely annoyingly slow.
well actually yes WAR needs new stuff cause then whats the point of goin to a new game if it look and feels the same as the one u just quite. and if u mean balance between PVE and PVP that wont happen when the game background is nothing but fighting and the title of the game implies fighting each other
Don't get off topic here ! In this topic some people raises consern that the system is not suited for PvP, without inventions and new stuff. This is done with the usual WoW comparison. And if your experience comes from WoW its quite possible to feel that something is missing in PvP. And then blame the standard skill set and call for new stuff!
My point is that the standard system in MMOs have produced both good PvE (WOW as exsample) and PVP games (guild Wars as exsample others mention DAoC) and therefore new stuff is not a MUST to make a good RvR. But implementation and balance is. As not many MMO's yet have got a good balance between PvE and PvP, within the standard frame of skills with manacost, cooldown and so on.
New stuff can be nice, but is it needed? (and we are still talking about the standard skill setup) New stuf is also a risk because it can fail to improve the game. And btw how many FPS does come with new stuff when it comes to game mechanicsth ? And people still goes for the newest one!
lol my bad i was not specific enough when i said that war needed knew stuff i meant like a diffrent combat system. which is does bring. i love the look of the WAR combat system it puts me in my happy place. i just would not want to play a game that had the same combat interface as WOW or a few select other games.also when i said balance would not happen since a majority of WAR revolves around RVR i mean the PVP and PVE would never be 50/50 in WAR more like 80/20
Actually the defining factor in Guild Wars that makes it a better PvP game is that it only allows 8 skills to be equipped at a time, as compared to the massive amount of skills in WoW. This made Guild Wars players alot more, dare I say...smarter, 'cause they had to think about synergies between their skills. Also, since everyone's armor was the same at the highest level there really was no difference in stats...It's merely about skill. As opposed to WoW which has pretty much thrown stats to the wind as I've seen Rogues in BC with over 10k hitpoints.
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There may be defence skills as well. Checking out their pod casts on the skills system it seems there are dozens of skills you can choose from. At least it wont be like Vanguard where you know every skill the other person has and it comes down to the first drop mostly. WAR should have natural variety unless the skills are unbalanced and everyone goes for the same uber killing one.
Be nice to have natural defensive skills that assist with blocking against different types of attacks. Also if you add in too many 'manual' moves then the game will lag to hell. imo
well if you really paid attention to the podcasts which im sure you did you'll see that it is still similiar to guild wars being that you can only have a few i believe its about 9 skills equiped any given time but are allowed to change which ones you use. also there its TONS of skills a person can get both tactical, action, and PVE but you will never be able to get them all so u have to choose which ones you want carefully
Hate to break it you but the combat system in WAR from what I have tried at the show was button smashing and about as boring as you get.
Hate to break it you but the combat system in WAR from what I have tried at the show was button smashing and about as boring as you get.
hate to break it to you but im willing to bet money u were never at the show. not to add your noobish for saying what you just did since the show was awhile ago or any show for that matter and the game has not been released.
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