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lvl grindin in games today (rant)
hellsfear
Member UncommonPosts: 83
its all there is to-do in ALL online games today.Theres no base meaning, and no storyline. b-4 it was like "ur a time traveling cop, who plays by his/her own rules , and Billy Bob just kidnapped ur daughter 
,killed both of ur hamsters 
, and ripped ot ur freashly planted dasies 
. And ur the only one who can stop him!! and it all ends out in a fight 
and it ends with "Billy" dead and u with a black eye and a few missing teeth 
. But NOOOOOO... ya just learn how to play get to lv 15 or 20 start a guild and grind, grind, grind. then u get bored sop playin and get banned,
yes banned. FYI no this is not from personal experiance. i just wany a game WITH A POINT!! AND STAYS TO IT , and doesent just forget it hafway into the game.
thx for listining to my rant,
-hellsfear
ps: pole hs been edited in
Comments
I agree. There are no more plots. And, now games are all computer based. you just sit and watch. Thats why I prefer FPS/TPS. Your character is as good as YOU are, not just botting to level 50, and pwning newbs that are all lv 2. In FPS/TPS, if you hack to lv 50, and go against an experienced level 1, he is gonna MAUL YOUR ARSE!
So, WarRock, Crysis beta, CS:S(though their vocab consists of: F*** S**t Gay, Fag, OMG, WTF.)
the point to all mmo's since time began has been the grind....no matter how they disguise it, you'll find it somewhere. In fact, I'd venture to say, w/o the grind...you don't have an mmorpg....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
im srry this may sound stupid but whats Fps/Tps?
Im not sure if i missed the point of your post but lets go kick billys ASS
Kings and Sons of God
Travel on their way from here
Calming restless mobs
Easing all of their, all of their fear
Strange times are here.
.........why not, it has a point doesent it
? 
but its
FPS= First Person Shooter TPS= Third Person Shooter
majora4 talking about fps's on an mmo site= dumb/irrelevant
I think it means first person shooter and third person shooter could be wrong though.
I agree with your post except some games stick to a story line alittle to much or maybe just the wrong way.
Like not being able to be evil in LOTRO but then the games like WOW where the story line hardly matters brings about a lack of depth for me. Grind is a part of MMOs but that doesnt mean there can't be a point to it. I am looking forward to WAR. Maybe they will do a good job of balancing the overall story as part of the grind. Also PotBS looks good as a kinda of create your own story line by what you choose to play type MMOs.
Hope this made sense.
Kings and Sons of God
Travel on their way from here
Calming restless mobs
Easing all of their, all of their fear
Strange times are here.
Well, Yeah, FPS/TPS is first/third person shooter. And, I am reffering to FPSMMORPGs, like CS:S and Warrock.
Exactly.
Lack of imagination and fantasy, i mean grind? , sorry is a word invented by people who simply do not seem to get involve'd with a game. All they seem to see is grind and when you ask them make a new toon all they can think of is "i'm not gonna grind those lvl's again" The not able to say "Cool lets make fun with a new toon"
You see it's not the games that are grind it's people who make it a grind. When people learn to play games again and not treath there games like it is a job then we would see allot more happy gamers, but untill people will continue to play these games like a job i feel we havn't heard the last of the word GRIND.
games give players goals, and players pursue those goals. that's been gaming ever since pong. hell, ever since the earliest board games, even. it's what gaming is.
it's a "grind" when the only engaging goals have to do with character progression. gaining xp, skills, equipment, etc. as opposed to say, in a sp rpg, where the goal is to follow a storyline, change the gameworld, etc.
i think there are ways of getting away from that in mmos, giving players goals that aren't just about watching thier pet toons grow, but it'd take some innovation, which mmo devs are either lacking, or afraid of taking risks on.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I would agree with you, but I can't because I know better and I actually know what the word grind means when referring to MMO's. Grinding is killing creatures for XP. Questing is something different. Sure that word can be applied to questing in a literal sense but MMO folks usually apply the word questing or adventuring.
So, lesson recap: Grinding = killing creeps...can also be called training.
Questing = um...doing quest or a.k.a; Adventuring.
Now....there are a few games out there that actually try to thwart grinding by giving better XP for questing. However, questing is meaningless if it isn't memorable which imo most happen to be. This is where innovation is needed. I once again have to refer to one game and one game only who tried to make questing memorable; Guild Wars. Clear cut storyline that no matter what I do...I will never forget it.
I may have not remembered each quest, but I do remember each area because of the story. The way the story was intertwined with progression made me that much more attached to it's pve. However, because the lvl cap was so low it made me care about my characters less. Honest mistake on their part. They couldn't have know that would happen. Now in GW2 the cap will be higher.
As I have lvled in other games with higher caps, I have cared about them because of time put in. Flip side is that while caring about my character...I gave two shits about the story, quest, plotlines, etc etc etc. The three B's; Bland, Boring and Bullshite. Half the time I'm not even reading the text. Just scanning towards " Collect ____fill in the blank and return them to so and so. No connection beyond that.
So, in the end I think that it's not what option can we add to a game to make it ours (as most MMO's basically have the same key componets which incidentally makes it an MMO whether we all think so or not), it's more of how do we connect players to our world. In turn I think this is where all the innovation should be focused: Story telling.
FPS= First Person Shooter TPS= Third Person Shooter
majora4 talking about fps's on an mmo site= dumb/irrelevant
Maybe you didn't notice this was the general area, and games besides MMO's have been discussed many times on this site, especially FPS/TPS. Not only the fact that these type of games can actually influence new ideas, but the reverse also.
Did you really just say that CS:S is an MMO?
I would agree with you, but I can't because I know better and I actually know what the word grind means when referring to MMO's. Grinding is killing creatures for XP. Questing is something different. Sure that word can be applied to questing in a literal sense but MMO folks usually apply the word questing or adventuring.
So, lesson recap: Grinding = killing creeps...can also be called training.
Questing = um...doing quest or a.k.a; Adventuring.
Now....there are a few games out there that actually try to thwart grinding by giving better XP for questing. However, questing is meaningless if it isn't memorable which imo most happen to be. This is where innovation is needed. I once again have to refer to one game and one game only who tried to make questing memorable; Guild Wars. Clear cut storyline that no matter what I do...I will never forget it.
I may have not remembered each quest, but I do remember each area because of the story. The way the story was intertwined with progression made me that much more attached to it's pve. However, because the lvl cap was so low it made me care about my characters less. Honest mistake on their part. They couldn't have know that would happen. Now in GW2 the cap will be higher.
As I have lvled in other games with higher caps, I have cared about them because of time put in. Flip side is that while caring about my character...I gave two shits about the story, quest, plotlines, etc etc etc. The three B's; Bland, Boring and Bullshite. Half the time I'm not even reading the text. Just scanning towards " Collect ____fill in the blank and return them to so and so. No connection beyond that.
So, in the end I think that it's not what option can we add to a game to make it ours (as most MMO's basically have the same key componets which incidentally makes it an MMO whether we all think so or not), it's more of how do we connect players to our world. In turn I think this is where all the innovation should be focused: Story telling.
I really have to disagree with this. To me grinding does not equal killing mobs. Actually I do agree more with Reklaw.
Grinding does not exist. Grinding is a state of mind. It is only real to you. If you are bored with something and continue doing it, you will feel grind. How do we know that grinding does not equal killing mobs? Because many people enjoy doing that, and so it is fun for them and so does not exist. To other people grinding does equal killing mobs and is not fun for them, and so they are totally bored and feel the only reason they are doing it is to get xp for a level or skill.
Therefore if some people enjoy the activity it is not a grind, if some people don't, it is a grind. Since it comes down to whether or not you enjoy it, grind is simply a state of mind, it doesnot exist. It is entirely your perception. Which means it can exist in every game depending on your point of view (as we can see from dozens of other threads like this), or in none (again as we can see in dozens of other threads, with people saying grind is that, grind is that this game has less, no it has more...)
In summary again grinding can only be labeled as one activity or another if that is the activity that you don't like doing.
Venge Sunsoar
Damn... I guess I'm grinding here at work today....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I said in the literal anything can be grinding in game, but when the word was passed around in games of old which you would know if you played them that GRIND = KILLING MOBS FOR XP. Google it. Ask longtime MMO folks what people are referring to when saying the word grind. How many times have you heard the word Asian grinders? These games are about killing endless mobs and questing in these is pure back burner.
Disagree all you want. Sure the actual meaning of the word can be applied to many things in a game or even the real world for that matter, but when speaking about MMO culture...it's referring to killing creeps for xp. Just like Rock and Roll can be applied to many things, but when speaking about music...it's a particular type.
What do you think people are talking about when saying they are "GRINDING" to LVL faster? TWO ROUTES TO LEVELING GRINDING V.S. QUESTING. There is much debate in many games as to which is faster to reach lvl cap. Play a few MMO's and learn your lingo FOO.
GRINDING, QUESTING, LFG, GLF, OMW, LEECHING, KS or kill stealer, IC or in character, DOT or damage over time, MOBS, KITING, DPS, CAREBEAR, BIND CAPMING, AoE, AGGRO, PROC, BUILDS, FARM, ALTS, GIMPING, TANKS, WTS, WTB, PULLING, NERF, POWERLEVELING, SNARES, TAPPING, SPECS, STACKING refers to spell stacking, TWINKING, PVE, NUKING, XP, SOULBOUND, BINDING, MAIN (big one here), RARES, LOOT, CAMP, SPAWNKILLING, PK, GRIEFING, Ganking...all have particular attachments when speaking about MMO's, but when applied to other things mean different things.
OOH, don't let me forget...SPIKERS, INTERUPTERS, TWISTING, ROOTS, BOTTS, CORPSE RUNNING, IRL, KoS, LINKING, MEZ, old school MOOs, Mule or BANK, NINJA, PAT, QQ, PUGZ, DKP, GM's, LoS, ROLLING, COH, MEDDING, REZ, SHARD, etc etc etc.
And coming from someone who joined this site three years ago. Hmm, you should know this stuff by now.
Grind is the work a heroe must do, to finally become one. It's the part they don't show in the movies. It's what a heroe need to do so he can have a castle, a nice magic weapon, and enough money to pay for his/her army. I honestly think that players who complain about grind are the ones who though that they were supposed to be the "aragorn" or "luke" of the game world they started to play. This raises a quiestion, if everyone is uber, who's really uber?. Most players who think this way should stick with pc, p3 or xbox role playing games, because their is no MMO that will satisfy your needs.
Sorrey Sovren again I have to disagree. I did play games of old, not meridiant 59 type old but I've been playing since just after the Kunark expansion in EQ.
Grinding never really meant killing mobs, it always meant something that was boring, you know... a grind. It just so happens that in that game thats what you did most of the time was just kill mobs.
Venge Sunsoar
W/E is all I can say to that...you keep your meaning and the rest of the interwebz will keep ours. Easy as that. Like I said, take a look at how the word is used in what context around age old forums and text that are still around when referring to this subject. It's plain as day. Even on this site also. I repeat...LEARN YOUR LINGO.
*EDIT* OK, I just looked the word up on several sites referring to MMO SLANG and pretty much across the board they all list GRINDING AS KILLING CREATURES for XP. LOL... even wiki has it listed this way (read beyond the first line which talks about how it's used in MMORPGS) which is really nothing to be relied upon , but may be an indicator. OOPS....even the terminology sections for EQ, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, SWG, and VANGUARD has grinding down as killing creatures for XP.
Like I said...the literal meaning can be applied to anything, but when applied to MMOs it's lingo. You never hear anyone say "OOH, I'm Quest grinding" do you? You do hear however rep grinds = killing somemone for something. Title grinds in guildwars is or has been the only time I have heard that word applied as such something different than the usual. Being that not all titles in that game require killing...most do, however a few do not.
*EDIT 2* I'm finished with this...it's pointless. It actually took a few minutes to realize that I actually really don't care about this and no point in going any further for me especially when there are bigger issues for me to be worried about on the planet.
W/E is all I can say to that...you keep your meaning and the rest of the interwebz will keep ours. Easy as that. Like I said, take a look at how the word is used in what context around age old forums and text that are still around when referring to this subject. It's plain as day. Even on this site also. I repeat...LEARN YOUR LINGO.
*EDIT* OK, I just looked the word up on several sites referring to MMO SLANG and pretty much across the board they all list GRINDING AS KILLING CREATURES for XP. LOL... even wiki has it listed this way (read beyond the first line which talks about how it's used in MMORPGS) which is really nothing to be relied upon , but may be an indicator. OOPS....even the terminology sections for EQ, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, SWG, and VANGUARD has grinding down as killing creatures for XP.
Like I said...the literal meaning can be applied to anything, but when applied to MMOs it's lingo. You never hear anyone say "OOH, I'm Quest grinding" do you? You do hear however rep grinds = killing somemone for something. Title grinds in guildwars is or has been the only time I have heard that word applied as such something different than the usual. Being that not all titles in that game require killing...most do, however a few do not.
*EDIT 2* I'm finished with this...it's pointless. It actually took a few minutes to realize that I actually really don't care about this and no point in going any further for me especially when there are bigger issues for me to be worried about on the planet.
See thats the thing. You do hear about quest grinding. In EQ2, WoW, and LOTR especially you hear about quest grinding over and over again.
The only reason you think that grinding referred to killing mobs over and over again was because thats all there was to do. Now that there is millions of qeusts you hear quest grinding. so again grinding is just repetitive activity that you don't like.
So You need to learn the meaning behind the words.
Venge Sunsoar
If mmos stuck to a story more, then you'd be complaining it was too linear. They dump the story (mostly) and let people do what they want and go where they want and then you get complaints about lack of story.
Its a no-win situation for the mmo devs I think.
------------------------------
"Everything is awesome. Fundamentally."
Grind = gameplay you don’t like
Playing a game that you don’t like = you are addicted and need therapy.
Ok I said I was done, but you said I need to learn the meaning behind the words, so now I back. Not once have I ever heard the term quest grinding in all the years I've played MMO's. Even in Lord of the rings where questing is pretty much the foundation of gaining any xp. Certainly more than killing mobs.
See...what I gather from you disagreeing with me is that you think I'm wrong. BUT EVEN YOU STATE THAT PEOPLE APPLIED THE WORD GRINDING TO KILLING MOBS BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THERE WAS TO DO...supposedly, I remember questing being in quite a few older MMO's.
How many times do I have to repeat this, is it not getting through to you? THE LITERAL DEFINITION OF THE WORD GRIND, GRINDING CAN BE APPLIED TO MANY THINGS IN OR OUT OF A GAME. But usually when it comes to terminology associated with MMO's it's referring to killing mobs for the reason you yourself said, because it was all there was to do. How do you think associations start.
Slang like cool when referring to certain things doesn't mean it's cold. What planet are you from?
I am fully objectionable when it comes to this as I actually do see where it can be used in many areas. But you disagreeing with me is just coming off as you don't see why my view is this way and that I am just wrong.
So then let me ask you this...When someone mentions grind in a game to you, what part of the game do you think they are speaking of? If I were thinking questing in this instance, most times I would be wrong.
*EDIT* That said, I see where a few of your points are coming from, it doesn't seem that you see mine. Now I'm finished with this.
I don't believe that grind is needed in MMORPGs anymore.
If you look at games like Everquest and WoW it is clear that you would be able to just start people at high levels and they would still be challenged by all the PvE & PvP content.
It isnt the grind of MMORPGs that are challenging, it's the endgame. I don't know why people would play an MMORPG to do the grind only, that would seem kind of boring and repetitive. It's a decent time waster if that is what you want, but I prefer challenging content, puzzles, things like that. I realize this is now gone from all MMORPGs because they make you do useless 1-2 month grinds just to get to the highest level.
If they made leveling more challenging I might support it, but they trivialized it ever since WoW came out and now we have games that just give you experience for running from one place to another. They should make it very difficult to level if they want to keep grind systems in, then the game would actually be challenging during leveling. Right now it is free exp designed only to waste your time.