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The giant misconception of EVE-Online.
tck_tokyo
Member Posts: 125
One of the things that really gets to me is people that don't know what they're talking about when they review something, or others who have no scope of understanding in that their own personal opinon does not apply to everyone else. I've been playing EVE-Online now for just over a year, and I figured it's about time I laid down my two pennies.
EVE-Online is not a bad game, but some people would say it is because it doesn't involve buying an assault rifle, some ammo and then repeatedly quick switching between your knife and sidearm, whilst jumping like an idiot to your favorite camping spot.
The area of controversy is generally not the graphics/audio of the game, since they speak for themselves and are pretty much impossible to argue against. They're just too damn good. On the other hand the part where too many get confused is the gameplay value:
EVE is one of the most innovative, exhilirating and rewarding games I have ever played in my entire life. The learning curve is a long one, yes, but stop for a few seconds and consider why, it's not long because the interface or the game in itself was structured badly, it's difficult to learn because of it's complexity, because of all that it has to offer. During gameplay in EVE you can/will experience social challenges, emotional challenges, market management and analyzation, corporation management and supervising, recruitment strategies (how to get in to a corporation and how to promote the one you are already in), maintaining corporate and personal economics, the complexities of attempting to control space 'territory', interstellar commerce (trading, advertizing and bargaining), manufacturing, researching, bounty hunting (NPC and PC, of which the latter is far more entertaining but also more risky), working for agents, industrial labour (mining for example), working with other players in a squadron for mining operations or large scale search and destroy/recon. operations that you yourself can set up, warfare is also of course incorporated in EVE. As you can tell there is much to offer, and obviously I can't list everything, but there I've laid down some examples for those of you who aren't already veteran players and know what EVE is all about.
Another one of the things which makes EVE so loveable is the fact that it's so incredibly community driven. The entire state which the universe of EVE is in now is based on player actions, and that's what really makes you feel like you're part of this world, like you're really role-playing/simulating in an entertaining and realistic manner. The market is player driven as well, and it works fantastically, already after a year; high-end mineral prices have gone up by as much as four fold, and if you stay in touch with current events you'd know why (i.e. pirate control of the outer regions where law enforcement has no control has placed these entities in the hands of more ruthless players who are strong because they don't follow as many rules or have as much to lose, hence those players/corporations have an easier time holding on to the territory which contains asteroids which yield that specific mineral, and so those who do get a hold of it have something of a monopoly on the item, of course it's much more complicated than that and it's on a much larger scale, but that is a basic overview of why one of the major economical problems in the universe exists currently). Also, the majority of the community is slightly older than that of other games, I've never before met so many late 20 to early 40 year olds in a game, and that range of gamers is much more mature obviously, so you don't have to deal with as many a##hats as usual, and it just generally radiates a much better, more realistic, feel.
Agreed, this game is not for everyone, it takes time, and if that is something you do not have to offer, then it's not for you. If you need quick action, then it's probably not for you either (because it is very realistic and you do need to put effort in to it to be rewarded, but this is what makes the rewards worth so much more when you finally acheive them). Just because it's not for you however does not mean that you can't admit that it's a very well made game/simulation. People that automatically come to the conclusion that it's a bad game because they played it over a span of time and didn't understand it, didn't get as far as they wanted or ran into some other miniscule problem and decided to just blame the game and call it "bad" should go back to playing Counter-Strike. Please do, because we don't want players like you in the EVE community anyway.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
Comments
I just hated how easy to 'exploit' it was at launch (mining in 0.0 in starting ship/equip) couple with the fact that basically you had to mine, mine and mine some more to get any cash - then the devs went and nerfed mining (no omber in 1.0 anymore) and then increased the pirates in the lower zones (good move) but never penalised those that took advantage of it earlier (creating the 'haves' and 'have nots') with no way for new players to ever bridge the gap
Then there was the uncontrolable PvP (M00 camping 1.0 stations and ganking everyone) so you could lose everything in a heartbeat (add the fact that cloning wasnt in at launch) and the fact that all the factories/labs were taken (ok they changed this later but still gave early starters a massive edge that would never be closed)
The game was just too unbalanced/unfair and will _never_ be fixed without a new server/server wipe - new players need to become mining whores to the big corps if they ever want a hope of any of the cool stuff
You don't have to mine to make money. Instead of taking the next agent your training agent gives you, look up the info for a military "corp" like Republic fleet and take an agent from there. You get non-stop kill jobs. You get the reward for taking down pirates(almost all the time but sometimes you get mercs), money for completeing the job, bonus from completeing the job in a certain time and then any loot you don't need you can reprocess and sell the minerals. At the beginning of the game you can sometimes make up to 40k a job that only takes you 20 minutes to complete.
New players joining EVE now have it easier than at any stage of the game.
There are varieties of routes towards making money and contrary to popular beliefs not all of them involve mining!
The changes to combat and the increased importants of frigates means that new pilotcs can actually play important roles in fleet engagements within a few weeks of starting the game.
Agent missions have also been greatly enhanced since the start and a newbie with a bit of persistence and hardwork can get to a level 3 dropping implants within a couple of weeks.
We had a starter in our corp who had earned 100 million isk within 3 weeks of starting the game (almost enough for a top tier battleship).
There is a whole plethora of guides and advice on starting your characters, making money and PvP that were not around at the start and Corps generally are a lot wealthier and willing to help new pilots out.
I can remember it took me months to get my first cruiser - New players now can be flying them in a couple of weeks.
Amarr Victor
stupid double post bug.
I can assure you that any player who took thier newbie ship with their two mining lasers into 0.0 space when the game was launched over a year ago have spent all that money and are no longer financially benefiting from the experience. I did not benefit from that and I have closed the gap along with hundreds of others.
You can catch up financially in eve and not mine a single asteroid. It just takes a little creativity.
New players need to become mining whores to the big corps if they ever want a hope of any of the cool stuff.
Find a new corp if you do not want to be a mining whore. There are plenty of corps in the game and not all of them focus on mining. And to prevent that from happening research the corps your looking at. Just do not join the first corp that ask you to join. The corp I'm in does mine alot, but that is the choice of the members. I prefer to do agent missions and mine when we have a mining op going on.
Argean...... Caldri
Rebel Mining Guild
Eve-Online
Eve-Online
I really miss Eve, I played the beta and release but I quit when I lost 3 Mallers and a battleship. I have thought about taking it back up but I figured it would be pointless considering all the training I have missed at this juncture. That is one element that has bothered me about the game is that its impossible to even fathom catching up because all the skills are trained in 'real-time'. This means players in from the beginning of the game will always be the best provided they have kept up with their training. There is no way to put in extra effort and powerlevel, so to speak.
Eve is still, without a doubt, one of the best games I've ever played. If you lose though, you lose big.
If your looking for a small Mining Corp, Look me up. We're focused in 0.0 Space for the rich minerals and NPC Hunting. Specialising in production and trade my Character's name is "An Gof" an experienced Character since Beta.
- Malkavian
"When you find youself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
No I completely agree, the game is not perfect. Old problems still linger and it's bothersome but wiping the server is definitely not the way to do it. I think it's good that the oldest players have something of an advantage over the newer ones, since after all it's an RPG and they were in this world first, and they were the dedicated ones who went through it during all of the initial bugs and patches etc etc. As is with things like research slots that advantage is a bit too unbalanced though, as you say. Factories are no longer an issue but yes research slots need a fixing, it's absolutely retarded that you need to look on the open market to buy them from other people for millions, this just needs some sort of balancing however, i.e. make more labs, make them more expensive to keep, place them differently, etc.
One area I completely disagree with you on is about new players. New players in EVE have an easier time than ever to get into the game and fast, in fact I think many of them are spoiled. There are more small-mid sized corporations than ever that are more than willing to give newest recruits tons and tons of extremely good advice, as well as lower end frigates for free or at extremely good discounts, and so on. Plus with the community EVE has it's usually not too hard to get in a group with people and join in on an operation somewhere to make money, even in a frigate. Again I'd like to emphasize (as I wrote elsewhere in these forums) how important it is to join a corporation in the beginning, but make sure it's an easy going one with loose regulations, and make sure that you DO NOT HAVE TO SLAVE MINE. There are many corporations out there that fit those characteristics.
If it's a big corporation/alliance that you want to join, yes you're probably going to have to slave mine, but this makes sense doesn't it? Other people worked their way up, now you need to work your way up. And don't just expect that if you sit around and do nothing besides the obligatory mining every week you'll get anywhere in the corporation because you won't. Just like in a modern day corporation you won't get anywhere unless you're active, creative, innovative, and do more than just the bare minimum. Follow those guidelines if you want to get somewhere in the larger corporations, after all it's a real person that founded and directs them, and so their needs are only realistic. If starting from the bottom is not for you, or if you're a beginner, then I strongly suggest joining a medium or small sized corporation, or if you really think it can get off; start your own!
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
Yes you don't have to mine, but bounty hunting is not the only other way out. Industry is a larger field than just mining..
Within industry there is trading (where you can either get a hold of items from your own adventures or from others in your corporation for example if you want to be the middleman, and deal with people selling and/or buying and/or trading with them, as well as bartering), manufacturing (use blueprints to build items you decide are worth good money in the market, and then manufacture them), supplying (transporting items is something most would consider dirty work, but hey someone's got to do it.. the upside is that since no one wants to do it, couriers often receive quite sizeable amounts of ISK for doing not so much), market analyzation and handling (if you really want to become a business man, you can begin looking at all of the entities or atleast a large field of entities which exist in EVE and travelling between regions, get an idea of what the market is like, and has been using the history charts to get an idea of where prices are and where they have been and why; from here you begin to stay in touch with current events, talk to people, buy information, do whatever you have to do but find out what's going on in EVE and how they affect the items you're interested in, then what sounds a lot more simple than it is: buy low and sell high, in between regions or simply between constellations since place and time mean everything- if you know what you're doing and you do it right, business men can become very rich off of others' labour) and of course there is even more to it.
Within combat there are various different ways of going at it, you can either do agent missions within security, this is for the people that want to get a steady line of work, working for an NPC corporation that has expectations and need them to be delivered, you can also choose PC bounty hunting, searching over long amounts of time for your prey, and probably assembling a small squadron of other bounty hunters, eventually when you find the bounty in the right place at the right time, you all strike and the heavy bounty is yours, this is a more sporadic, less secure, and extremely risky way of getting cash, but it can be lots of fun. Also of course you can go hunting in asteroid belts and other spots where rats love to camp and hunt them down just for the sake of Concord. Or if you're into protecting even more, you can get jobs either by freelancing or working for a corporation and escorting miners/haulers/the like.
Don't feel isolated to the obvious things, there's more out there than you think.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
Fantastic points I agree in every way. Now with the mega patch/expansion Shiva coming out it's going to get even more spiced up, I'm sure corporations would be willing to have newer players tagging along in level 4 missions/complex's and scenarios since they will require squadrons, and yes as you say more and more elite frigates are coming out and they have vital roles, plus they're making the initial ones better regarding tracking and other things. I won't even start talking about temporary outposts etc.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
The game has changed a lot Liqz. Yes, there is the fact of catching up in terms of skill points but read my thread on the overview of the skill system - it doesn't really matter in the long run. The recent changes mean that a dude in a battleship stacked full of 425's hasn't a hope in hell of hitting a fast moving frigate, especially up close no matter what mods he has fitted. That's just for combat. You also have to bear in mind that players who have 10mil SP+ etc, have a lot of level 5 skills and they can take 6 days to a month to learn even with implants and with only an extra 5% bonus compared to a level 4 skill which takes a day maybe. Level 5 frigate skill is 1/2 a mil SP on it's own and takes a fortnight - catching up isn't the issue.
I've been playing EVE since beta, and had the game readily installed for when the retail servers went live. I'm still playing it aswell so it can't be that bad. It really is a game with many facets though, so the more you scratch beneath the surface the more you will get out of the game. Likewise, the more you put into the game the more rewards you get and I don't mean just mining non-stop. I totally sympathise with all the people that say mining can be soul-destroyingly boring because it can be. Then again a well organised group mining session with your Corp can be a fun event.
I agree with the author of this thread. It isn't for everyone and that's cool. No-one will ever make a game that satisfies us all. I still see a lot of people that have been playing the game for over 10 months and have never left their starter NPC Corp so it caters for the solo player, but I do personally recommend joining a Corp to get the most from it. Find a corp that plays the game the way u want to play. The top organisations take the game really seriously which is why they are top$. My bunch are a collective of freelancing old farts that do hat they want when they want. We do have an agenda and corp direction though and do get together for group events, whether it's a NPC hunt or mining session. Every member in a corp mine gets an equal share, whether they mine or haul - very much agree with Hardin on that issue. It took me about 2 months to get my Exeqeror on my own, but our new recruits can afford a cruiser in 2 or 3 mining sessions. In fact it takes them longer to learn the skills than to buy the ship.
Jippy
BOMB
Ah, yes that is true. I heard many rumors about how to get around it, but it's a very difficult one. One of the things I always thought would naturally make this slightly better is the fact that eventually when players start reaching level 4ish on most of the skills they really want, they'll end up spending ages and ages on level 5s which only advances them so much more, whilst other people are training their 1s, 2s, 3s etc, where they are getting alot more results for alot less time. My point is that the older players have a much slower acceleration later on, while the newer player have a much much higher acceleration, but you're right, newer players will never hit the top speed that older players do. At the same time being an older player myself, I feel it's almost fair, since I was there from the beginning, I want something to show for it, and more than just a date.
Yes EVE is definitely a game of high stakes because of it's incredible level of realism, of course that's what makes the rewards worth so much more though, compare killing a person in EVE to killing a person in some random first person shooter.
Also, I do understand that the experiences you've been through were tough, losing that much is a pain in the a##. But I honestly don't think that it's QUITE that bad anymore. With the right insurance and a paid clone, even if the worst possible scenario takes place you only lose a certain percent of what your ship was worth, and that percent loss should not be too hard to handle if you could really afford to buy the ship in the first place, since using it you should have been making equally more money than you would in a lower class ship. What I'm trying to say is, do not buy/fly a ship that you can't afford to use, notice that just the ships cost is not enough, you need to have enough for the ship, then it's modules and then it's insurance, and remember to always keep your clone up to date. Come back and join us mate
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
Damn u type fast tck_tokyo LOL
Jippy
BOMB
Hehe, I know
I figured it only fair to respond to the majority of the members that responded here in my thread. Going to check yours out... right... now.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
my rule of thumb with ships is to keep a BS miner in empire. My old faithful Dominix does not leave empire ever, and wont. ITs my fail safe, and i can lose every other ship and peice of equipment and isk and still pull myself out of the whole. As the old axiom goes " dont place all your eggs in one basket". If you can afford to lose a ship, then dont use it, that way you will never go through that pain and stress of losing it.
insurance have come a long way from the beta and the system is pretty fair and should protect you finacialy. there has to be a loss of some sort, or whats the point. a game that handed you everything on a plate without effort would suck. and about catching up, well we are not born fully developed, it takes time and there are always people ahead of you. that is life. but instead of thinking "i can never be teh uber-est" think, i can make some new m8s who have alot of skill and wealth and they can help me in so many ways to help me move ahead. in this way a new player does not only benifit from the new content, new rules, new eq, new ships, new agents etc.. that were not in game at release, but they can benifit from the wisdom those that were have garnered, and not have to make all the the dumb mistakes, or test 100 methods to find the best one. so look on the bright side if you could
I don't think there is a single player in the game who can be considered so uber that he will win every combat battle because of his skills. There are too ship setup combinations that you can't possibly defend against any and every type of attack. If you're setup for long range then your dead at short range. If you setup for short range your dead at long range. If you setup for both then you're weak in both. The possiblities are endless.
Originally posted by imasig
I don't think there is a single player in the game who can be considered so uber that he will win every combat battle because of his skills. There are too ship setup combinations that you can't possibly defend against any and every type of attack. If you're setup for long range then your dead at short range. If you setup for short range your dead at long range. If you setup for both then you're weak in both. The possiblities are endless.
That's true, PVP is extremely unpredictable, which I think is good, otherwise the one with more SP would always win. Plus the factor that you can get into squadrons and mix tactics makes for even more combinations.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
bluewolf@warcry.com
Horizons Warcry
Saga Of Ryzom Warcry
Public Relations - http://www.boardsmd.com
bluewolf@warcry.com
Horizons Warcry
Saga Of Ryzom Warcry
Agreed..
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
This is really good advice to go by. My corp learned this lesson the hard way. We had a call to battle out in 0.0 space to help out the alliance we belong to. Things did not go well, we where out gunned. Out of 7 peps only 1 left with his ship. We spent the next 2 weeks mining to get the needed ores for the BS's that were lost. So now the corp has backup mining rigs and I'm sure some of they guys do also. We are not a rich corp so the BS's lost were for both combat and mining.
tck_tokyo I would like to thank you for the really in-depth posts. You are the first person I have seen do this. Most of the ones I have read bash the game instead of explain the game as it is. Yes other people have posted decent ones also but not to the same length that you have. And to the rest of the peps that have posted to this thread also thanks. I think this thread should be read by anybody thinking about playing the game.
Argean...... Caldri
Rebel Mining Guild
Eve-Online
Eve-Online
Well thank you very much, that was the kind of response I was hoping for of course, and I'm happy to hear that someone agrees with me. I think far too many look at this game "shallow-mindedly", but I suppose if that's the way they reason they never would have made it in the EVE community anyway. Just as a tip to future players however, DO read this thread and DO try the game if you think you might be interested. With the given knowledge this thread supplies you hopefully you'll be less shallow about judging it. Of course if you don't end up liking the game that's fine too, the line is getting old now but I'll repeat it one more time: this game is not for everyone. Sorry to hear about your losses Argean, but I guess there's no lesson like experience right? Good luck in your future voyages.
//Anjelle (ingame)
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
The game of Eve itself is a 'long' game and there is nothing wrong with that. But for players who have played for a long time and done many things in the game (maybe most things available), then at some point the game needs to bring more content to satisfy those that have played for a very long time.
New game play needs to be introduced at some point. Not new ship/modules, but actual game mechanics for the betterment of the game. You can only do the same repeatative things in Eve so many times until you are finally done playing it.
Things that might help the game could be things that were on the retail box that some of us have on our shelves. Things like Bounty Hunting (Need tools for it to work), Corporate Markets (Shares don't work and neither does the tax system), Player Owned Stations (was supposed to be out a year ago), etc....
The completion of Castor is not even over and players on the forums still believe that Shiva will be out in a few months, I don't see how it can. All of the bugs have not been finished in the current incarnation (Castor) and they just rebalanced game play yet again.
I had fun with Eve, had some boring times with Eve, but it still was a very nice introduction to the world of MMORPG's. While I may have really enjoyed it when it was released and slowly lost interest, then picked back up, then lost some interest, then picked up; there has not been any new content/action to keep myself interested for another round of problems with the latest patch.
Newbies do have it easier, but that is a good thing. They can specialize a little more now that those of us in the beginning. I left with almost 17mil in skills, but I had to be able to do many things. Newbies don't have to do everything now, they can choose areas where they want to go (except being a production player since they will never have the steep skill requirements that many other players have now) but can choose many pilot skills to specialize. Gone will be the days that us long time players had to have level 4's for all guns and ships because we didn't know what would get nerfed next; that bat hopefully can only swing so many times before the player base gets a bit pissed off.
I would think that a newbie entering the game can now choose a race, train only guns/ships for that race, and specialize in frigate/cruiser operations. They will be ready in a few months time to fly any special cruisers that come into the game. They don't necessarily have to go to battleship status if they don't want to. Before in Eve, biggest ship with best weapons gets the job done; that hopefully is being worked on so that it won't be the case now.
The future of Eve play for a newbie is greatly enhanced, but I can't go back to the grind. I could never go back knowing I left with so many skill points and over a billion in assets. Going back to no isk and a starter ship would be too depressing.
If you have never played a MMORPG, go for it. If you have never tried a space game, go for it. Only you who sign up to try it will know if it is right for you. I even think this site gives away a starter kit key that will let you try the game to see if it suits your game play (You download the game now and don't need the retail kit). It's time consuming, it can be fun, it can be frustrating, but at some point; it will be like other games on the shelf behind you, it will not be played any longer while you move onto something else.
@Condor-->;
I can totally sympathize with alot of your points, I have understanding for them because I've been there myself (although I've not played QUITE as much as you), I do however feel that your post was way too pessimistic, your view towards the game seems to have lost all the spice that you must have at some point had, I believe CCP had initially intended for the game to be suitable for casula gamers as well, and someone playing as much as it seems that you've played probably wouldn't find it entertaining anymore after so much time. I personally think EVE has alot to offer and with the upcoming stuff it'll be even more fun, I guess if you play too often and too much you'll lose interest, but what game has prevention for that?
Safe sailing whatever you do.
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I love rain, the color gray, and small apartments.
I hate CS, the term n00b and this thing --> ^^
But that's just me.
bluewolf@warcry.com
Horizons Warcry
Saga Of Ryzom Warcry
Agreed..
I guess you two didnt play the first couple of months of retail - M00 camped 1.0 starter stations and ganked any and everyone there (including concord) and players starting after about month 2 (when most of the 'balance holes' had ben removed) had to basically become mining whores of large corps to get anywhere - now I'm happy if those things got fixed (according to your posts) but I wont be coming back to find out
Eve (like so many other online games) had massive potential but just wasnt done justice (at least not at launch anyway)