I am cetainly not on any "whohaa train" conserning these ideas. They sound too euphoric for me, and i think people want to "stuggle" to gain various buffs/gains in character devolpment.
No grinding, no quest grinding, developing strength and size through just by useing of various armors (WTH), no level or skill top to reach for, no goals other than walking around and.. and...what? Dont even think PvP would be fun in this kinda system, sound to FPS like and i hate FPS
This being said - i do think there is too much numbers around now, but removing it all, is too extreme. I think we need to find the golden middle. Spellborn seems to be on the right path.
I am cetainly not on any "whohaa train" conserning these ideas. They sound too euphoric for me, and i think people want to "stuggle" to gain various buffs/gains in character devolpment. No grinding, no quest grinding, developing strength and size through just by useing of various armors (WTH), no level or skill top to reach for, no goals other than walking around and.. and...what? Dont even think PvP would be fun in this kinda system, sound to FPS like and i hate FPS
I find your lack of faith disturbing (and FPSs rule!)
I think you are all forgetting the simplicity that lies within the rules and framework of the Mother of all RPGs, D&D. It's a simple Dx system. There's no ridiculous math involved (although before 3.0 edition, the way armor class was calculated and considered was a bit confusing at first...), and it's still probably one of the better structured types of RPGs around.
There's not really that much math that is needed, and the game is still incredibly fun (with the right crowd, of course). Sure, it's not as realistic as some of the math involved with more and more of these emerging MMOs, but then again, think about the meaning behind RPG -- Role-Playing Game. And according to Wikipedia:
A role-playing game is a game "...in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters...". With the emphasis on fictional -- not real. Fantasy.
Ehh, that's my two-cents anyhow.
People get lost in customization and trying to be the 1337est people out there. They forget that a large purpose for playing Role-Playing games in the first place was never to be the best at something -- it's for the story and for the company. Games are supposed to be fun, not arduous, complicated, and only a competition.
I find it contradictory, too, that many "MMORPGs" tack on "RPG" to the end of their name(s). It's clearly a false statement...
The extreme opposite to this kind of system is found in FPS's, where everyones armor and weapons are equalized with the rest being left up to ones twitch skills.
The question you have to ask yourself is how much do you want to rely on youre reflexes and how much on your strategic planning? MMO's today are heavily favoured in the planning part when it comes to combat, ie planning your skills and attributes and armor stats - number crunching. They are extereme opposistes in gameplay style that I think can reach a happy middle.
Since you're looking for something inbetween Id say the only game out there right now that bridges the gap between unfair mindless rpg's and fair pvp fps shooters is Guildwars. Where you still require twitch and as well stats are important but not so important that it determines the outcome of the battle. Everyone reaches max level failry quickly and even armor stats or uber items cant overcome a well planned well timed attack combo.
Depending on how on or off you are at your game it can mean the difference between slaughtering a mob of 10 monsters or getting slaughtered by just one of these monsters.
Since you seem to be coming to the realization that most fantasy RPG's are mindless and reward the wrong type of player (carebear) you should try out more FPS games and if it has to be fantasy what Guild Wars is doing is spot on. Like any other skill based game I find I have to polish up my skills to get to the level I was when I left.
Numbers are NO different than words, they just describe greater detail and provide more information. Theres no difference really, the difference is that some dont want to get into that level of detail, and really when it comes down to it, its just laziness and if you dont want to win, you shouldnt play games where winning is the goal. But there can be a happy medium and I think Guild Wars right now has found the best middle ground.
Combat can only benefit from a skill based system with no levels! Too much development time and resources are directed toward quests. If we bring NPC quests to a minimum, we free up huge quantities of our valuable resources that can be applied to features that are more fun and last longer than 5-30 minutes before being tossed away for the next quest.
A skill based system will be filled so completely with interesting and unique skills that two people who both choose to be warriors can fight in a completely different manner without even a single skill in common. Also, the battle system does not necessarily have to be twitch-based simply because you don't have visible statistics; I find that a rather shallow method of thinking.
If you can't understand what I'm saying, visit the blog I'll be starting to explain all of my theories and ideas about the most innovative and fun MMORPG my imagination can conceive to be plausible.
ALSO: Guild Wars isn't really an MMORPG.
=========== The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us! The Guild.
Comments
Woah. This thread went places.
LODECLAW
For
President for 2008.
<p align="center"><a href="http://cyborg.namedecoder.com">;
<img src="http://cyborg.namedecoder.com/webimages/edox-DRAGEN.png"; width="240" height="180" alt="Digital Robotic Android Generated for Efficient Nullification" border="0"></a>
<br /><a href="http://cyborg.namedecoder.com"><small>Get Your Cyborg Name</small></a></p>
I am cetainly not on any "whohaa train" conserning these ideas. They sound too euphoric for me, and i think people want to "stuggle" to gain various buffs/gains in character devolpment.
No grinding, no quest grinding, developing strength and size through just by useing of various armors (WTH), no level or skill top to reach for, no goals other than walking around and.. and...what? Dont even think PvP would be fun in this kinda system, sound to FPS like and i hate FPS
This being said - i do think there is too much numbers around now, but removing it all, is too extreme. I think we need to find the golden middle. Spellborn seems to be on the right path.
I find your lack of faith disturbing (and FPSs rule!)
Qaze - Atheist, Nihilist, Sadist.
WinRAR.rar
Mudkip Video
I don't get it. You want to play something like The Sims Online but in a fantasy setting?
Kind of hard to avoid math when you have this thing called combat. And with combat and math come DPS whores, and people will compare damage done.
If it's any consolation, my server on EQ2 has quite a few fancypants type people who spend long hours building out new wardrobes.
I think you are all forgetting the simplicity that lies within the rules and framework of the Mother of all RPGs, D&D. It's a simple Dx system. There's no ridiculous math involved (although before 3.0 edition, the way armor class was calculated and considered was a bit confusing at first...), and it's still probably one of the better structured types of RPGs around.
There's not really that much math that is needed, and the game is still incredibly fun (with the right crowd, of course). Sure, it's not as realistic as some of the math involved with more and more of these emerging MMOs, but then again, think about the meaning behind RPG -- Role-Playing Game. And according to Wikipedia:
(which everyone knows it always completely true
)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game
A role-playing game is a game "...in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters...". With the emphasis on fictional -- not real. Fantasy.
Ehh, that's my two-cents anyhow.
People get lost in customization and trying to be the 1337est people out there. They forget that a large purpose for playing Role-Playing games in the first place was never to be the best at something -- it's for the story and for the company. Games are supposed to be fun, not arduous, complicated, and only a competition.
I find it contradictory, too, that many "MMORPGs" tack on "RPG" to the end of their name(s). It's clearly a false statement...
The extreme opposite to this kind of system is found in FPS's, where everyones armor and weapons are equalized with the rest being left up to ones twitch skills.
The question you have to ask yourself is how much do you want to rely on youre reflexes and how much on your strategic planning?
MMO's today are heavily favoured in the planning part when it comes to combat, ie planning your skills and attributes and armor stats - number crunching. They are extereme opposistes in gameplay style that I think can reach a happy middle.
Since you're looking for something inbetween Id say the only game out there right now that bridges the gap between unfair mindless rpg's and fair pvp fps shooters is Guildwars. Where you still require twitch and as well stats are important but not so important that it determines the outcome of the battle. Everyone reaches max level failry quickly and even armor stats or uber items cant overcome a well planned well timed attack combo.
Depending on how on or off you are at your game it can mean the difference between slaughtering a mob of 10 monsters or getting slaughtered by just one of these monsters.
Since you seem to be coming to the realization that most fantasy RPG's are mindless and reward the wrong type of player (carebear) you should try out more FPS games and if it has to be fantasy what Guild Wars is doing is spot on. Like any other skill based game I find I have to polish up my skills to get to the level I was when I left.
Numbers are NO different than words, they just describe greater detail and provide more information. Theres no difference really, the difference is that some dont want to get into that level of detail, and really when it comes down to it, its just laziness and if you dont want to win, you shouldnt play games where winning is the goal. But there can be a happy medium and I think Guild Wars right now has found the best middle ground.
Thank you very much, Sir OP. I regret (not really) to inform you, however, that I am not an American citizen.
===========
The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us!
The Guild.
Come now, people! Use your imaginations!
Combat can only benefit from a skill based system with no levels! Too much development time and resources are directed toward quests. If we bring NPC quests to a minimum, we free up huge quantities of our valuable resources that can be applied to features that are more fun and last longer than 5-30 minutes before being tossed away for the next quest.
A skill based system will be filled so completely with interesting and unique skills that two people who both choose to be warriors can fight in a completely different manner without even a single skill in common. Also, the battle system does not necessarily have to be twitch-based simply because you don't have visible statistics; I find that a rather shallow method of thinking.
If you can't understand what I'm saying, visit the blog I'll be starting to explain all of my theories and ideas about the most innovative and fun MMORPG my imagination can conceive to be plausible.
ALSO: Guild Wars isn't really an MMORPG.
===========
The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us!
The Guild.
I think this thread kinda died now that Lodeclaw did a blog lol
Qaze - Atheist, Nihilist, Sadist.
WinRAR.rar
Mudkip Video
Oh, is that why it died? Oops!
===========
The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us!
The Guild.