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General: Beyond the MMORPG: Neverwinter Nights
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
This week in Beyond the MMORPG, Dan Fortier steps out of his usual mud-slinging role to talk about Neverwinter Nights and elements from that game that could be of use in the modern MMO.
This week for Beyond the MMORPG I figured I’d bring out the heavy artillery. The original Neverwinter Nights stands alone as one of the best RPG games ever made. Its reputation is further enhanced by its incredibility simple, yet powerful, toolset that allows players to create their own adventures and persistent worlds. The scripting used to create events and special effects in the game was fairly easy to get the hang of even before the player made script-makers were developed. Coupled with Bioware’s strong support of the community, this ease of use made it one of the most modded RPGs of all time. Even today there are dozens of persistent worlds hosting as many as sixty players at time (which is more than I can say for Dark and Light).
There are tons of great comparisons between NWN and MMOs: One of the most obvious is the faction system. This tool can be used in conjunction with customized scripts to make NPCs react properly to a player’s actions. If you run around murdering peasants it won’t be long before the town guards become hostile to you and inversely the ’bad guys’ might stop trying to put a sword in your gut. With clever use of scripting, you can create an entire web of interrelated factions that the player can gain or lose favor with by their deeds that can determine who they can accept quests from and where they can travel in safety without being chased by a lynch mob. Most MMOs have similar systems that work in more obvious ways, usually involving a player grinding reputation in order to get access to special quests or items.
Read it all here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
yeah Neverwinter Nights always has been such a great place to checkout different ideas and possibly prototype new concepts.
Less Rouge more Rogue imo.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
I rlly enjoyed the first NWN - with the expansion packs, however wasn't as keen on NWN2.
I would love the original makers of NWN1 (believe NWN2 was made by diff people) to join and make an MMORPG.
If they did, i reckon it could challenge even WoW, as there is still a v large fanbase that still play the game.
"the original Neverwinter Nights stands alone as one of the best RPG games ever made"
Overrated is the word that comes to mind when I hear Never Winter Nights.
archive.gamespy.com/articles/september03/25overrated/index2.shtml
The original makers of NWN was Bioware. Also makers of such awesomeness as Baldurs Gate, Knights of the Old Republic and the soon to be awesome Mass Effect. What Bioware gets right in games is character development and story. They are said to be making their own MMO using the Hero Engine.
Give a man fire and he''s warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he''s warm the rest of his life.
The first NWN remains the only RPG that I've ever actually finished. As I entered the final battle, my hard drive went belly-up, but I managed to get it back long enough to finish the battle and the game. NWN will always hold a special place in my gaming heart.
That said, I don't want to see an NWN MMO. It can only hope to fail against WoW, virtually the same thing set in a fantasy world but with such a huge head start that NWN wouldn't stand a chance.
-- Xix
"I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
Original Neverwinter Nights does not stand alone as one of the best RPGs ever made.
NWN stands alone as one of the best PC games ever made
People that say otherwise simply do not understand what NWN is.
I only can say, thanks Bioware - NWN was one of its kind
And thanks to NWN community for keeping this game alive and kicking every day more and more for 7 years now !
News Flash: a lot of players don't like WoW, myself included.
I never played NWN 1 or 2, but IMO what MMOs need and are missing out on is the use of that described toolset to allow players to design their own content within the game. What I found dull about WoW and CoX, and I read it from alot of people on this board about many new MMOs, is that it they are too linear and confining.
What MMOs need is to let players out of the box.
Bioware got bought out by EA. BOOOO!!!
I hate to watch EA continue to make NWN3.
NWN was to single player RPGs what WoW is to MMOs. Aproachable and easy to get into. There was absolutely nothing done in NWN that was not an approximation of a game system already in place for thirty years. Nothing. The fact that those idea have not been done right doesn't mean they're new. Don't buy that. Challenge and complexity are punished in the fantasy MMO genre by players who don't want their games to feel like work, and the single player RPGs also share that restriction. To measure the consequences of a character's actions as a numeric value, from "aggro" to "yes you can have that quest", is the perfect example of just how much RPGs can lose in the translation to MMOs. Their soul. Diablo2 was a contemporary of Planescape: Torment. Torment used the game mechanics as nothing more than a vehicle to tell a story, while Diablo2 is glorified gauntlet. There is no doubt in my mind which of those games is more mentally engaging. Here is a wake up call: people are idiots. Popular is not better, it's more often than not crap. Crap, I say.
Are you one of the Gamespy staff? It's cool to hate man but do you have any original thoughts?
Original Neverwinter Nights does not stand alone as one of the best RPGs ever made.
NWN stands alone as one of the best PC games ever made
People that say otherwise simply do not understand what NWN is.
I only can say, thanks Bioware - NWN was one of its kind
And thanks to NWN community for keeping this game alive and kicking every day more and more for 7 years now !
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed
I only recently started playing NWN1. I only have the original and one expansion.. it was in some stuff that belonged to my brother and I forgot I had it for a long time. I love playing it. There is still so much about it that I don't know, and things I haven't figured out. I expect even this original version will keep me busy for a very long time as I try to get other expansions.
It is amazing how quickly people forget. Pretty much everyone hated NWN when it first came out because of the really crappy campaign which shipped with the game. It wasn't Bioware that made NWN a great game - it was the players who modded that made a great game.
I am, tragically, one of the older gamers that can tell you that the Neverwinter Nights you are talking about is not the "Original" Neverwinter Nights. The original was actually a true MMORPG with the same engine as the original gold box DnD games. It was the first online game i ever played, so I remember it fondly, though it was not a great game by any means.
I believe it is quite possible to make a MMO like NWN. Sure balance is an issue, but balance isn't that big of a deal in PvE. One can argue that one class can fill a role better than another in PvE, which will result in all other classes for that role to be ignored. That is true, but that is the fault of the community and not the developers. If the difficulty of the content is made to be completable by any group make-up using good tactics, then the players don't have an excuse to seclude others from their group.
As for PvP, I like the concept of group balancing that DAOC came out with. I say concept, because DAoC didn't perfect it. You still have variables that can screw up the balancing, such as everyone rolling a very solo effective class for PvE, adding group imbalances in PvP. A good PvP balanced group should allow any class that can perform the duties of (Healer, tank, dps, crowd control) to be picked up by that group.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
That Neverwinter Nights was an AOL, the original America Online closed dialup network, game. And about the only thing it shared in common with the NWN of this thread (and world conciousness) is the D&D theme and the name.
NWN, the game of this thread, should be ranked in the top 5 of any Hall of Fame, Best Of, whatever games list.
Thank you Jon for posting this. NWN seriously IS the best of it's day. Of course, not the original campaign that it shipped with, but the mods that the community has created.
Play a persistant world mod on NWN and play any of todays MMOG's and you would understand. NWN was rediculous of it's day. One could actually modify the core of the game itself, create their own systems and make AI scripts.
I fully support NWN. I have all expansions and I believe I just might reinstall and check to see if any persistant worlds are still going strong.
NWN mods definitely > than a lot of todays MMOG's
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Awesome article. I appreciate it.
NWN is amazing, and has changed the way I enjoy and evaluate all games. NWN, in my view, raised the bar for many areas. I loved being able to create my own game. I would spend hours and hours on Quests and story and so forth.
Unfortunately, they killed NWN with NWN 2.
We need another game like NWN. I was hoping NWN 2 would be like NWN 1 with an easier toolset and updated graphics. It was as if NWN 2 was released before NWN 1 and NWN 1 is the more "advanced" and user-friendly game.
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Agreed
The worst thing is that NWN2 probably spelled the end to NWN as we know it. Long time ago when Bioware planned NWN they had in mind not to create a game - but a 3D tool for creating your own D&D games.
NWN2 is another story. It was made ground up as a single player rpg. The toolset will still let you do great singleplayer (or small group) mods - but things like Persistant Worlds are problem.
But when all is settled - online play and persistant worlds is what made NWN so hugely popular.
And this is why NWN2 (while not entirely financial failure) will never reach the heights of NWN1
And will unfortunately mean that we will never see NWN3
The one with great toolset and great graphic ...
I am 1 one more to think that NWN is one of the best game ever released. I was part of a team running a persistant mod back then, and it was tons of fun. The scripting system and Aurora Toolset is really powerful and I haven't seen anything that can compare nowadays. On top of that the game was innovative for its time.
It's getting a bit old though and it would be great to see a new game project based on the same concept.
Btw, great article.
Bioware are, IIRC, doing an MMO, however, they just got bought by EA, so don't hold your breath for the greatest MMO ever.
Actually, don't anyway. NWN was great, but the volume of content needed to provide that kind of depth in an MMO would probably be uneconomic.
Bioware is making a MMO and you know that they'll be pulling from their past RPG experiences, including NWN. They are smart enough to look and see and what the players made, at what they changeed, and they are going to make one hell of a MMORPG using their vast experience, talent, and knowledge.
I can't wait!
*Looks down at own sig*
AFAIK only one MMO has tried to offer Player made areas [using the MMOs toolset]...Ryzom, in the "Ryzom Ring" Obviously, it wasn't enough to save the game [Ryzom was too sandbox for mainstream gamers].
Maybe some young entreprenor will make/sell a toolset usable with Second Life to make an MMO out of it...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;