Layoffs have removed core designers and the ones responsible for the foundation of the game. That's why some have quit the game over them being fired. I suppose opinions vary from those who play a day to day game on pure "fun factor", and those who plan to build and develop characters. Personally,I find it very hard to log into a game and have fun knowing that the company running it is going to turn it into something I won't like in the future. Also, I find it hard to ante up the money to help facilitate any such changes.
You "KNOW" what the company is going to do in the future.... wow. We have a psychic in the house everybody. Amazing. Can you tell me what the winning lottery numbers will be this week as well please.
Loothur VonRichten Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
I like the game, It has improved so much since launch as far as game performance goes, anyone who quit for performance reasons should take another look at it.
Layoffs have removed core designers and the ones responsible for the foundation of the game. That's why some have quit the game over them being fired. I suppose opinions vary from those who play a day to day game on pure "fun factor", and those who plan to build and develop characters. Personally,I find it very hard to log into a game and have fun knowing that the company running it is going to turn it into something I won't like in the future. Also, I find it hard to ante up the money to help facilitate any such changes.
You "KNOW" what the company is going to do in the future.... wow. We have a psychic in the house everybody. Amazing. Can you tell me what the winning lottery numbers will be this week as well please.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I guess you could argue that SOE has improved EQ2, so perhaps the same will be the case with VG in 2010, although my crystal ball doesn't see that far.
I don't think this is a question of seeing thinks as half full vs half empty. It is a question of faith and backing it up with the most important thing a gamer has, their time. Basing that faith on SOEs words versus their actions is the balancing point. Some people see the leadership familiar with and passionate about making Vanguard leaving or getting fired as a bad sign. Couple that with SOEs past track record for fixing games like MxO and SWG and there is no reason to believe their words. Neither view is wrong. If you choose to believe SOE will continue to develop things that were not already in production by Sigil then that is fine too.
The real tests come now that Sigil is being absorbed into SOE prime and they have run out of material that was already in production when the game was still owned by Sigil (that includes the ancient port warehouse).
If things do shape up it is pretty easy to come back.
It does not take a team to make a great game, it takes someone with a good idea. All you have to do then is pay someone one to do the work. The Vanguard team tried to bring to much into the game to soon, thats why half the content was not there. You can play vanguard 3 diffrent ways, and it takes forever to create that much content, plus a craplod of money, which is where soe steped in. Vanguard is heading into a postive direction, and some people hate that because soe is behind it. Thanks to so Vanguard made it out of developement, yes they did release early but they had to get some income to continue. Soe make alot of bad business moves, get over it. But they are improving, they have turned eq2 into a crappy game into something fun to play, now there working on vanguard. If you played Vanguard at lanch, then played it today, theres no way you can say its not a better game, cause it is hands down. People should not bash the game if they havent played it within the last month, but no, they want to see soe burn for SWG or some crap. Grow up.
It does not take a team to make a great game, it takes someone with a good idea. All you have to do then is pay someone one to do the work. The Vanguard team tried to bring to much into the game to soon, thats why half the content was not there. You can play vanguard 3 diffrent ways, and it takes forever to create that much content, plus a craplod of money, which is where soe steped in. Vanguard is heading into a postive direction, and some people hate that because soe is behind it. Thanks to so Vanguard made it out of developement, yes they did release early but they had to get some income to continue. Soe make alot of bad business moves, get over it. But they are improving, they have turned eq2 into a crappy game into something fun to play, now there working on vanguard. If you played Vanguard at lanch, then played it today, theres no way you can say its not a better game, cause it is hands down. People should not bash the game if they havent played it within the last month, but no, they want to see soe burn for SWG or some crap. Grow up.
Yep. You nailed it perfectly. People are too caught up in their hate to realize they are missing out on what is quite possibly the best MMORPG to date. I pitty them, but it's their loss really. I for one absolutely love my time in Vanguard right now. And, yes I completely agree that SoE has done a complete 180 on EQ2, and is finally making something great out of that game too. The Kunark expansion makes me want to resub my station access just to check it out.
Loothur VonRichten Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
The thing that the VanHaters on here are failing to realize in their one-liner "look at me cause I am cool for hating Vanguard" replies is that there ARE people making posts recently JUST TO SAY HOW MUCH THEY LIKE THE GAME. Think about this for half a second. Yes I realize the VanHaters will not even take half a second cause they are already hitting reply to throw in their cute 10-year-old one-liner reply. Those of you that thought about it for a second, what does that mean that people recently have been taking time out of their lives to post on the official forums that they like the game? More then enough people love to point out when things are bad. Hell, look at the World of Warcraft forums if you want to see it. Every second of every day, there is somebody more then willing to point out the bad things in an MMORPG. Rarely if ever do people take the time to post that they LIKE an MMORPG. It just doesn't happen often. Those people that like the MMORPGs are in the game playing them. That's what I am trying to point out here. Recently there have been numerous posts on the official forums by individuals stating how much they love the game, how they came back to the game and it is awesome, and thanking the devs for doing a great job. When you see a negative post in an MMORPG, you have to realize that it's a dime a dozen (more like a dime a thousand), but when you see a positive post in an MMORPG, that is priceless. For every one person that will take the time to go to the official MMORPG forum and post how happy they are with the game, there are a thousand others who feel the same way and wont take the time to go post. So, when you see a LOT of people doing it, that means there is something going on there really good. Ok VanHaters... let your one-liner hate spew forth. Yes. We all know you played in beta and you hated it and you played when it was released and you hate it... and because you hated it then, then it obviously sucks now even though you haven't played the game after Game Update 1, Game Update 2, or Game Update 3.1. Yes. You know it all sucks cause you are the great and powerful VanHater ... stalker of the MMORPG forums.. hater of all that is SoE. Fear thee.... eeeewww... ahhhh....
Spoken like a true Vanboi. Now that we got the insults out of the way (You labling everyone with anything negative to say about the game as being a Vanhater, and me pointing out the even more obvious that you are a vanboi etc.)
Ok so who are you? Random poster xxx shouting out how wonderfull VG is and how anything positive said about VG must mean more then a hundred negatives, and we should believe you why? Ok Ok lets say i am a Vanhater and my whole life revolves around seeing VG die (it doesn't and I don't even list myself as a hater simply as someone that played and like the MAJORITY didn't like it. My Opinion nothing more nothing less take it or toss it) That still brings us back to why believe you and ignore all the negative posts? Are you honest, are you truthfull, are you a SOE Dev or perhaps simply a lonely Vanboi player wanting more people to play VG and share your view point? What in the end makes any positive thing said about VG anything more then drivel from a rabid fanboi, or a despirit dev? Your Logic to put it simply is flawed. To boil it down your post seems to state any negative VG comment = Lies, any positive VG comment = 100% truth with a army of silent believers behind it. Sorry that is simply BS
In the end I suggest everyone who wants to try VG do so (with a buddy key or when theres a free trial) and see for themselves, If they like it cool, if they hate it too maybe then they will see theres just as much BS Vanboi spin as any hater spin here.
I am a long term MMO fan: UO, EQ, AC, AO, EQ2, WOW and now Vanguard.
I just started and I think Vanguard is a lot of fun. It is highly playable these days but there are still bugs and the game takes a powerful computer to run at max settings. I play on an ancient 2.3 Ghz, 1 Gig, GF 6800 and I can play pretty well with the graphics turned all the way down. My wife has a better computer and this game simply looks beautiful on hers.
I like vanguard because combat and the character classes/spells/abilities have greater complexity than any other game out there. It is a lot like the old EQ1 on steroids. I like to level via quests instead of grinding and this game has endless quests. The quests are more interesting and innovative that the competition (WOW is close behind though).
The thing that the VanHaters on here are failing to realize in their one-liner "look at me cause I am cool for hating Vanguard" replies is that there ARE people making posts recently JUST TO SAY HOW MUCH THEY LIKE THE GAME. Think about this for half a second. Yes I realize the VanHaters will not even take half a second cause they are already hitting reply to throw in their cute 10-year-old one-liner reply. Those of you that thought about it for a second, what does that mean that people recently have been taking time out of their lives to post on the official forums that they like the game? More then enough people love to point out when things are bad. Hell, look at the World of Warcraft forums if you want to see it. Every second of every day, there is somebody more then willing to point out the bad things in an MMORPG. Rarely if ever do people take the time to post that they LIKE an MMORPG. It just doesn't happen often. Those people that like the MMORPGs are in the game playing them. That's what I am trying to point out here. Recently there have been numerous posts on the official forums by individuals stating how much they love the game, how they came back to the game and it is awesome, and thanking the devs for doing a great job. When you see a negative post in an MMORPG, you have to realize that it's a dime a dozen (more like a dime a thousand), but when you see a positive post in an MMORPG, that is priceless. For every one person that will take the time to go to the official MMORPG forum and post how happy they are with the game, there are a thousand others who feel the same way and wont take the time to go post. So, when you see a LOT of people doing it, that means there is something going on there really good. Ok VanHaters... let your one-liner hate spew forth. Yes. We all know you played in beta and you hated it and you played when it was released and you hate it... and because you hated it then, then it obviously sucks now even though you haven't played the game after Game Update 1, Game Update 2, or Game Update 3.1. Yes. You know it all sucks cause you are the great and powerful VanHater ... stalker of the MMORPG forums.. hater of all that is SoE. Fear thee.... eeeewww... ahhhh....
Spoken like a true Vanboi. Now that we got the insults out of the way (You labling everyone with anything negative to say about the game as being a Vanhater, and me pointing out the even more obvious that you are a vanboi etc.)
Ok so who are you? Random poster xxx shouting out how wonderfull VG is and how anything positive said about VG must mean more then a hundred negatives, and we should believe you why? Ok Ok lets say i am a Vanhater and my whole life revolves around seeing VG die (it doesn't and I don't even list myself as a hater simply as someone that played and like the MAJORITY didn't like it. My Opinion nothing more nothing less take it or toss it) That still brings us back to why believe you and ignore all the negative posts? Are you honest, are you truthfull, are you a SOE Dev or perhaps simply a lonely Vanboi player wanting more people to play VG and share your view point? What in the end makes any positive thing said about VG anything more then drivel from a rabid fanboi, or a despirit dev? Your Logic to put it simply is flawed. To boil it down your post seems to state any negative VG comment = Lies, any positive VG comment = 100% truth with a army of silent believers behind it. Sorry that is simply BS
In the end I suggest everyone who wants to try VG do so (with a buddy key or when theres a free trial) and see for themselves, If they like it cool, if they hate it too maybe then they will see theres just as much BS Vanboi spin as any hater spin here.
Who am I? I am Jemand VonRichten of the Seradon server in Vanguard. I have never attempted to hide my identity in game, and I have openly posted it many times. I am more then willing to discuss with you the game in-game at any time. Send me a tell. Who are you?
No. I am not a dev. No. I do not work for Sony Online Entertainment. No. I have no vested financial interest in Sony Online Entertainment. No. The sky is not falling. And, yes. I have been accused of being a dev before. You aren't the first VanHater to make that assumption. But, gratz on your attempt to discredit me.
I am simply a Vanguard gamer that loves the game and is sick of hearing all the VanHaters cry about how Sigil screwed them. Get over it. Vanguard today is NOTHING like it was in beta or release. It isn't owned by Sigil anymore, and yes a lot of the people that used to work on it are now gone. Are you seriously upset about them losing their jobs after the absolutely HORRIBLE job they did on the beta and release? The game is now fully in the hands of Sony Online Entertainment, and that can only mean good things compared to where it was with Sigil.
Now again... who are you? I look forward to speaking with you in game. Unless of course you are just another person here spreading hate on a game you don't actually play.
Loothur VonRichten Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
It does not take a team to make a great game, it takes someone with a good idea. All you have to do then is pay someone one to do the work. The Vanguard team tried to bring to much into the game to soon, thats why half the content was not there. You can play vanguard 3 diffrent ways, and it takes forever to create that much content, plus a craplod of money, which is where soe steped in. Vanguard is heading into a postive direction, and some people hate that because soe is behind it. Thanks to so Vanguard made it out of developement, yes they did release early but they had to get some income to continue. Soe make alot of bad business moves, get over it. But they are improving, they have turned eq2 into a crappy game into something fun to play, now there working on vanguard. If you played Vanguard at lanch, then played it today, theres no way you can say its not a better game, cause it is hands down. People should not bash the game if they havent played it within the last month, but no, they want to see soe burn for SWG or some crap. Grow up.
Oh really?
Raph Koster made one of the best games ever created in Star Wars Galaxies and he left the project shortly after launch. Look what happened to that project when you just "pay someone else to do the work". It too had a launch similar to Vanguard.
Something else getting glossed over is that all the positive changes getting implemented in Vanguard to date come from the Sigil team, not SOE. It is the same people making the game now as it was at launch, just that there are about 55 less of them as of last week and 80 less overall as of last monday.
Time will tell how SOE does with the game after Port Warehouse. Then we will see what SOE is doing that Sigil wasn't already working on. That is where Vanguards future is uncertain. Everything to date is simply Sigils work slowed down by staff cuts. Once the team merges with SOE San Diego and the majority of Vanguard visionaries gone we will see.
I am just not that impressed by some performance improvements, server mergers, promises of a raid zone and a free trail with no time to live date over the last 10 months.
It is the same people making the game now as it was at launch, just that there are about 55 less of them as of last week (Which really should have been stated as of this summer.) and 80 less overall as of last monday.
Maybe you are right maybe not. But you don't have to make things up as you go. SOE have hired a few devs since they took over the game and crew from Sigil. And the only figures (speculations but from QforQ radio guy) for those that left have been 14 people, you really don't have to stretch the speculative figure more.
Lidane: i agree with what you say but dont you also think that the people that like the game have as much right to have thier own opinion as the people that dont like the game do? you ask why people feel the need to stick up for thier game, well it's the same the other way friend! why do the people that dont like the game feel the need to try to talk others out of playing it? why not let everyone make up thier own mind?
I think what has to be taken into consideration is the history-- and hostility-- surrounding Vanguard.
During the game's development, and even up through the early days of the launch, anyone who posted anything that was less than glowing, and which didn't blow sunshine and roses up Brad McQuaid's arse was immediately flamed by the hardcore fans and defenders of VG. If you had any issues with the game, you were branded an idiot, a liar, a mindless hater, a troll, or too stupid/immature/lazy to handle a "real MMO". Oh, and you were obviously trying to run the game on a Commodore 64 and were just too cheap to upgrade your PC.
Just look through the archives of this forum. The proof is all there.
That attitude lasted for years. And it only served to poison the well of any goodwill that the game might otherwise have had. And once Sigil fully imploded and we started to see just how messed up things had been behind the scenes, two distinct camps firmly entrenched themselves-- those that felt vindicated, or who had a sense of schadenfreude over VG falling apart and its mass exodus of players, and those who were more determined than ever to circle the wagons and defend VG to the death.
There's also a third camp, with people like me in it. I played the game in beta and shortly after launch, and I wasn't all that impressed. However, I've kept an eye on it from the sidelines just to see how things have played out since Sigil fell apart, and to see where things are headed for this game.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion-- good, bad, or, like me, somewhere in between. If someone feels morally obligated to defend this or any other game, that's fine. Go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised if you see me standing off to the side scratching my head in confusion as you do it.
It's funny but reading to all the replys of my post i still fail to see things your way! to me i can't help but think that while you all may be able to give clever replys, i think that is the main problem. to me i just go by what i see.
Soe take over: game has improved steadily ( for me )
Soe improve eq2 steadily: i play this too.
People get fired. Game mechanics are ALREADY in! More updates planned so game is still steadily moving forward.
now ok things might go bad, if they do then my opinion may change. But at the moment i am playing the game and having fun yes but my main goal is to progress a char like i did back in the old eq days. and that is happening in a very enjoyable game. All this and they have cut back? so if they keep cutting back will it get even better for me? Why is it that people notice the cutting back and believe it but in the same paragraph read the part where it says that they will BENEFIT from the experience of other game stafff such as eq/eq2, but they fail to believe that part?
Lets keep it simple! if you are worried about progressing your char in a game that you feel is dying, then dont waste your money and play a different game. Let me make my own mistakes, I am 34 years old and have been playing these games for the last 12 years so i know what i am getting into, as do most who play these games. I have said this before and i will say it again! I promise to come back and eat eggs if your all right. I dont mind being wrong i just mind presuming and losing out that's all The big thing is i never played SWG so i have no reason to not trust SOE. After all the gave eq what they wanted, more raid content and they have made big strides for eq2 too. Add to that they took over Vg and have actually improved it. So please understand why i trust them
It is the same people making the game now as it was at launch, just that there are about 55 less of them as of last week (Which really should have been stated as of this summer.) and 80 less overall as of last monday.
Maybe you are right maybe not. But you don't have to make things up as you go. SOE have hired a few devs since they took over the game and crew from Sigil. And the only figures (speculations but from QforQ radio guy) for those that left have been 14 people, you really don't have to stretch the speculative figure more.
I did forget to say "about 80 less", but I forgot to the word -about-. I was trying to convey that they were rough numbers.
That aside, I think my numbers are as close to the truth as we have. Sigil was originally 104 members when I counted them. SOE stated publically they kept 45. 104-45=60 gone, I erred and said 55 since they move 6 people to other non-vanguard projects. The last reports has anywhere from 14 to 18 total fired/leaving people (and in worse speculation that is all that stayed). Again going with caution that leaves about 27 people left on the vanguard team. 104-27 = 77 people left.
I don't think I stretch the truth any here with my on the fly calculation earlier.
Shukes,
While EQ2 has improved it was SOEs flag ship and it got a big budget and their best/brightest. I highly doubt Vanguard will be getting the same royal treatment and in fact the visionaries who made the great aspects of VG are getting canned or leaving. That worries me more than anything else to be honest. While you point to EQ2's 3 year turn around you also don't acknowledge what SOE did to SWG and MxO. Keep in mind that Vanguard is a far cry away from EQ2 in terms of revenues and much more similar to MxO/SWG, rough speculations of course.
Yes the dev team is tiny compared to what it was and the game has improved. All said and done the game has some performance boost to show for 10 months of work. That is about it. For me, the problem was never performance as I ran the game with no hitches on high settings.
Given all that we have to see I just don't see the game rebounding. It looks like it would be a couple months of fun and then run out of game. I don't want to play a game for a short time and then sit around waiting for potential to develope, espeically with SOE in charge. I've done that ride to many times.
If they do prove me wrong and make the game great I don't mind saying I am wrong. Vanguard really looks like it could be a great game, but the mountain it has to climb is very tall and the clock is most surely ticking.
I agree friend i really do. i just want to wait to see what happens next before i presume anything that's all i played eq from release and had to wait around so many times finding things to do as i had played all content and at the min i am plodding along at a nice steady pace in VG as i dont have the time for eq sinks anymore.
It's not that i dont acknowledge what happened with SWG friend i just can't comment on something i dont know anything about. That would be wrong of me. I only played SWG for 2 weeks and found myself levelling so fast things just seemed to easy and no risk o i stopped playing
I played Vanguard and put up with the performance, it wasn't as bad as most people claimed, it was annoying at times, but for the most part it ran OK (it didn't run well, but it ran well enough to group without serious problems MOST of the time) The problem started with the double exp weekends and constant changes making the exp curve easier. We were flying through levels faster that the game could handle, we could see the signs Incomplete Bridge ahead, some of us flew off the end, and some hit the brakes. I was exploring dungeons under my level, crap exp but still fun, despite the intermittent performance issues, which were tolerable. Carried on levelling, allbeit much slower than I normally would have chose and still could see no content ahead, about level 47 I gave up.
With no more content in sight, it seemed pointless to continue. The server population was decimated by then, nearly all the players I knew having quit for the very same reason. There was nothing for the very active players to do.
I feel making the exp curve easier and easier, so content you started at a suitable level you outlevelled way before the content was fully completed was a huge mistake I loved the extended dungeon crawls poking about genuinely exploring, it was fun. Sigil needed to make levelling much longer, none of the highly active players would have been put off by that, they were enjoying the dungeons, but there was only so much fighting grey mobs one can do. We all wanted to get away from the WoW-esque level to cap in 10 days then the game starts philosophy. Still, the level curve was made easier and easier.
Had they made levelling slower, soloing tougher, released details of the raid content earlier perhaps enough people would have stuck by the game to keep it moderately successful. The whiners who would have quit after the first month would have left no matter what, it wasn't WoW there was no pleasing them. There was a significant population who wanted to play the game and would have stuck with it but for the fact there was literally nothing to do. Had Sigil catered for this crowd they would have had a decently sized, very loyal fanbase. All they needed was to provide something for players to do at max level, instead they deliberately had players hitting max level faster and faster, with nothing awaiting them when they got there. People just got to 45-50 and quit, if they got that far it wasn't the performance that was the deciding factor, most people I knew grumbled about poor performance, but wasn't the issue that killed the game for them.
People might suggest, level slower enjoy the game more, I did enjoy the game, I explored many of the dungeons fully and still no content at max level. This was the population they wanted, the highly commited gamer, of course we were gonna play the game at a high pace, and they left nothing for their target audience to do once we got there.
Will I play VG again? Unlikely, but maybe, but it'd take a serious amount of rebuilding, I wouldn't tolerate the irritations that I put up with at launch, and there better be a whole lot of imaginative and challenging end game content for me when they offer the free month to show the old population how they turned it around.
I have to admit to loving this game, BUT! i find myself agreeing with everything you just said. That is the biggest gripe i have with this game. i can solo through levels way too fast and things my level are just too easy. i want to be challenged by mobs my level and find it diificult with anything above. though at level 31 i find myself looking for level 33-34 3 dot mobs just for s decent challenge. I can only hope that when they eventually do release an expansion that it has a tougher set of mobs/quests etc to do. It's very rare while i am exploring that i have to keep an eye out for that angry wandering dragon.
I have to agree with the things you say friend! That is my only gripe with this game, it's just too easy. everything else i can put up with. The graphics are great, the gameplay is fun, the crafting is excellent. the exploration is the best part of the game! but, it's just too easy. I am hoping that future patches/exp may add more challenging content
I have to admit to loving this game, BUT! i find myself agreeing with everything you just said. That is the biggest gripe i have with this game. i can solo through levels way too fast and things my level are just too easy. i want to be challenged by mobs my level and find it diificult with anything above. though at level 31 i find myself looking for level 33-34 3 dot mobs just for s decent challenge. I can only hope that when they eventually do release an expansion that it has a tougher set of mobs/quests etc to do. It's very rare while i am exploring that i have to keep an eye out for that angry wandering dragon.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With the exception of the amount of players that left due to performance (which is impossible to pin down), I agree with Hillsy 100%. I made all the same attempts to slow my leveling, yet keeping some sense of challenge, and that was before rest XP was introduced.
I do believe that more players quit from poor performance than from lack of end game, although the latter was definitely an issue for quite a few players (I doubt that it was close to 10% of the 175,000 that have quit). So, the recent performance enhancements, memory leaks in particular, were a desperate measure in my opinion. SOE will also have to clean up the complete game to near perfection before they can release the trial.
Comments
Loothur VonRichten
Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
I like the game, It has improved so much since launch as far as game performance goes, anyone who quit for performance reasons should take another look at it.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I guess you could argue that SOE has improved EQ2, so perhaps the same will be the case with VG in 2010, although my crystal ball doesn't see that far.
I don't think this is a question of seeing thinks as half full vs half empty. It is a question of faith and backing it up with the most important thing a gamer has, their time. Basing that faith on SOEs words versus their actions is the balancing point. Some people see the leadership familiar with and passionate about making Vanguard leaving or getting fired as a bad sign. Couple that with SOEs past track record for fixing games like MxO and SWG and there is no reason to believe their words. Neither view is wrong. If you choose to believe SOE will continue to develop things that were not already in production by Sigil then that is fine too.
The real tests come now that Sigil is being absorbed into SOE prime and they have run out of material that was already in production when the game was still owned by Sigil (that includes the ancient port warehouse).
If things do shape up it is pretty easy to come back.
It does not take a team to make a great game, it takes someone with a good idea. All you have to do then is pay someone one to do the work. The Vanguard team tried to bring to much into the game to soon, thats why half the content was not there. You can play vanguard 3 diffrent ways, and it takes forever to create that much content, plus a craplod of money, which is where soe steped in. Vanguard is heading into a postive direction, and some people hate that because soe is behind it. Thanks to so Vanguard made it out of developement, yes they did release early but they had to get some income to continue. Soe make alot of bad business moves, get over it. But they are improving, they have turned eq2 into a crappy game into something fun to play, now there working on vanguard. If you played Vanguard at lanch, then played it today, theres no way you can say its not a better game, cause it is hands down. People should not bash the game if they havent played it within the last month, but no, they want to see soe burn for SWG or some crap. Grow up.
Yep. You nailed it perfectly. People are too caught up in their hate to realize they are missing out on what is quite possibly the best MMORPG to date. I pitty them, but it's their loss really. I for one absolutely love my time in Vanguard right now. And, yes I completely agree that SoE has done a complete 180 on EQ2, and is finally making something great out of that game too. The Kunark expansion makes me want to resub my station access just to check it out.
Loothur VonRichten
Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
Spoken like a true Vanboi. Now that we got the insults out of the way (You labling everyone with anything negative to say about the game as being a Vanhater, and me pointing out the even more obvious that you are a vanboi etc.)
Ok so who are you? Random poster xxx shouting out how wonderfull VG is and how anything positive said about VG must mean more then a hundred negatives, and we should believe you why? Ok Ok lets say i am a Vanhater and my whole life revolves around seeing VG die (it doesn't and I don't even list myself as a hater simply as someone that played and like the MAJORITY didn't like it. My Opinion nothing more nothing less take it or toss it) That still brings us back to why believe you and ignore all the negative posts? Are you honest, are you truthfull, are you a SOE Dev or perhaps simply a lonely Vanboi player wanting more people to play VG and share your view point? What in the end makes any positive thing said about VG anything more then drivel from a rabid fanboi, or a despirit dev? Your Logic to put it simply is flawed. To boil it down your post seems to state any negative VG comment = Lies, any positive VG comment = 100% truth with a army of silent believers behind it. Sorry that is simply BS
In the end I suggest everyone who wants to try VG do so (with a buddy key or when theres a free trial) and see for themselves, If they like it cool, if they hate it too maybe then they will see theres just as much BS Vanboi spin as any hater spin here.
I am a long term MMO fan: UO, EQ, AC, AO, EQ2, WOW and now Vanguard.
I just started and I think Vanguard is a lot of fun. It is highly playable these days but there are still bugs and the game takes a powerful computer to run at max settings. I play on an ancient 2.3 Ghz, 1 Gig, GF 6800 and I can play pretty well with the graphics turned all the way down. My wife has a better computer and this game simply looks beautiful on hers.
I like vanguard because combat and the character classes/spells/abilities have greater complexity than any other game out there. It is a lot like the old EQ1 on steroids. I like to level via quests instead of grinding and this game has endless quests. The quests are more interesting and innovative that the competition (WOW is close behind though).
Spoken like a true Vanboi. Now that we got the insults out of the way (You labling everyone with anything negative to say about the game as being a Vanhater, and me pointing out the even more obvious that you are a vanboi etc.)
Ok so who are you? Random poster xxx shouting out how wonderfull VG is and how anything positive said about VG must mean more then a hundred negatives, and we should believe you why? Ok Ok lets say i am a Vanhater and my whole life revolves around seeing VG die (it doesn't and I don't even list myself as a hater simply as someone that played and like the MAJORITY didn't like it. My Opinion nothing more nothing less take it or toss it) That still brings us back to why believe you and ignore all the negative posts? Are you honest, are you truthfull, are you a SOE Dev or perhaps simply a lonely Vanboi player wanting more people to play VG and share your view point? What in the end makes any positive thing said about VG anything more then drivel from a rabid fanboi, or a despirit dev? Your Logic to put it simply is flawed. To boil it down your post seems to state any negative VG comment = Lies, any positive VG comment = 100% truth with a army of silent believers behind it. Sorry that is simply BS
In the end I suggest everyone who wants to try VG do so (with a buddy key or when theres a free trial) and see for themselves, If they like it cool, if they hate it too maybe then they will see theres just as much BS Vanboi spin as any hater spin here.
Who am I? I am Jemand VonRichten of the Seradon server in Vanguard. I have never attempted to hide my identity in game, and I have openly posted it many times. I am more then willing to discuss with you the game in-game at any time. Send me a tell. Who are you?
No. I am not a dev. No. I do not work for Sony Online Entertainment. No. I have no vested financial interest in Sony Online Entertainment. No. The sky is not falling. And, yes. I have been accused of being a dev before. You aren't the first VanHater to make that assumption. But, gratz on your attempt to discredit me.
I am simply a Vanguard gamer that loves the game and is sick of hearing all the VanHaters
cry about how Sigil screwed them. Get over it. Vanguard today is NOTHING like it was in beta or release. It isn't owned by Sigil anymore, and yes a lot of the people that used to work on it are now gone. Are you seriously upset about them losing their jobs after the absolutely HORRIBLE job they did on the beta and release? The game is now fully in the hands of Sony Online Entertainment, and that can only mean good things compared to where it was with Sigil.
Now again... who are you? I look forward to speaking with you in game. Unless of course you are just another person here spreading hate on a game you don't actually play.
Loothur VonRichten
Wood Elven Ranger of the Florendyl RP Server
Raph Koster made one of the best games ever created in Star Wars Galaxies and he left the project shortly after launch. Look what happened to that project when you just "pay someone else to do the work". It too had a launch similar to Vanguard.
Something else getting glossed over is that all the positive changes getting implemented in Vanguard to date come from the Sigil team, not SOE. It is the same people making the game now as it was at launch, just that there are about 55 less of them as of last week and 80 less overall as of last monday.
Time will tell how SOE does with the game after Port Warehouse. Then we will see what SOE is doing that Sigil wasn't already working on. That is where Vanguards future is uncertain. Everything to date is simply Sigils work slowed down by staff cuts. Once the team merges with SOE San Diego and the majority of Vanguard visionaries gone we will see.
I am just not that impressed by some performance improvements, server mergers, promises of a raid zone and a free trail with no time to live date over the last 10 months.
Maybe you are right maybe not. But you don't have to make things up as you go. SOE have hired a few devs since they took over the game and crew from Sigil. And the only figures (speculations but from QforQ radio guy) for those that left have been 14 people, you really don't have to stretch the speculative figure more.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I think what has to be taken into consideration is the history-- and hostility-- surrounding Vanguard.
During the game's development, and even up through the early days of the launch, anyone who posted anything that was less than glowing, and which didn't blow sunshine and roses up Brad McQuaid's arse was immediately flamed by the hardcore fans and defenders of VG. If you had any issues with the game, you were branded an idiot, a liar, a mindless hater, a troll, or too stupid/immature/lazy to handle a "real MMO". Oh, and you were obviously trying to run the game on a Commodore 64 and were just too cheap to upgrade your PC.
Just look through the archives of this forum. The proof is all there.
That attitude lasted for years. And it only served to poison the well of any goodwill that the game might otherwise have had. And once Sigil fully imploded and we started to see just how messed up things had been behind the scenes, two distinct camps firmly entrenched themselves-- those that felt vindicated, or who had a sense of schadenfreude over VG falling apart and its mass exodus of players, and those who were more determined than ever to circle the wagons and defend VG to the death.
There's also a third camp, with people like me in it. I played the game in beta and shortly after launch, and I wasn't all that impressed. However, I've kept an eye on it from the sidelines just to see how things have played out since Sigil fell apart, and to see where things are headed for this game.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion-- good, bad, or, like me, somewhere in between. If someone feels morally obligated to defend this or any other game, that's fine. Go on with your bad self. Just don't be surprised if you see me standing off to the side scratching my head in confusion as you do it.
It's funny but reading to all the replys of my post i still fail to see things your way! to me i can't help but think that while you all may be able to give clever replys, i think that is the main problem. to me i just go by what i see.
Soe take over: game has improved steadily ( for me
)
Soe improve eq2 steadily: i play this too.
People get fired. Game mechanics are ALREADY in! More updates planned so game is still steadily moving forward.
now ok things might go bad, if they do then my opinion may change. But at the moment i am playing the game and having fun yes but my main goal is to progress a char like i did back in the old eq days. and that is happening in a very enjoyable game. All this and they have cut back? so if they keep cutting back will it get even better for me? Why is it that people notice the cutting back and believe it but in the same paragraph read the part where it says that they will BENEFIT from the experience of other game stafff such as eq/eq2, but they fail to believe that part?
Lets keep it simple! if you are worried about progressing your char in a game that you feel is dying, then dont waste your money and play a different game. Let me make my own mistakes, I am 34 years old and have been playing these games for the last 12 years so i know what i am getting into, as do most who play these games. I have said this before and i will say it again! I promise to come back and eat eggs if your all right. I dont mind being wrong i just mind presuming and losing out that's all
The big thing is i never played SWG so i have no reason to not trust SOE. After all the gave eq what they wanted, more raid content and they have made big strides for eq2 too. Add to that they took over Vg and have actually improved it. So please understand why i trust them 
I did forget to say "about 80 less", but I forgot to the word -about-. I was trying to convey that they were rough numbers.Maybe you are right maybe not. But you don't have to make things up as you go. SOE have hired a few devs since they took over the game and crew from Sigil. And the only figures (speculations but from QforQ radio guy) for those that left have been 14 people, you really don't have to stretch the speculative figure more.
That aside, I think my numbers are as close to the truth as we have. Sigil was originally 104 members when I counted them. SOE stated publically they kept 45. 104-45=60 gone, I erred and said 55 since they move 6 people to other non-vanguard projects. The last reports has anywhere from 14 to 18 total fired/leaving people (and in worse speculation that is all that stayed). Again going with caution that leaves about 27 people left on the vanguard team. 104-27 = 77 people left.
I don't think I stretch the truth any here with my on the fly calculation earlier.
Shukes,
While EQ2 has improved it was SOEs flag ship and it got a big budget and their best/brightest. I highly doubt Vanguard will be getting the same royal treatment and in fact the visionaries who made the great aspects of VG are getting canned or leaving. That worries me more than anything else to be honest. While you point to EQ2's 3 year turn around you also don't acknowledge what SOE did to SWG and MxO. Keep in mind that Vanguard is a far cry away from EQ2 in terms of revenues and much more similar to MxO/SWG, rough speculations of course.
Yes the dev team is tiny compared to what it was and the game has improved. All said and done the game has some performance boost to show for 10 months of work. That is about it. For me, the problem was never performance as I ran the game with no hitches on high settings.
Given all that we have to see I just don't see the game rebounding. It looks like it would be a couple months of fun and then run out of game. I don't want to play a game for a short time and then sit around waiting for potential to develope, espeically with SOE in charge. I've done that ride to many times.
If they do prove me wrong and make the game great I don't mind saying I am wrong. Vanguard really looks like it could be a great game, but the mountain it has to climb is very tall and the clock is most surely ticking.
I agree friend i really do. i just want to wait to see what happens next before i presume anything that's all
i played eq from release and had to wait around so many times finding things to do as i had played all content and at the min i am plodding along at a nice steady pace in VG as i dont have the time for eq sinks anymore.
It's not that i dont acknowledge what happened with SWG friend i just can't comment on something i dont know anything about. That would be wrong of me. I only played SWG for 2 weeks and found myself levelling so fast things just seemed to easy and no risk o i stopped playing
I played Vanguard and put up with the performance, it wasn't as bad as most people claimed, it was annoying at times, but for the most part it ran OK (it didn't run well, but it ran well enough to group without serious problems MOST of the time) The problem started with the double exp weekends and constant changes making the exp curve easier. We were flying through levels faster that the game could handle, we could see the signs Incomplete Bridge ahead, some of us flew off the end, and some hit the brakes. I was exploring dungeons under my level, crap exp but still fun, despite the intermittent performance issues, which were tolerable. Carried on levelling, allbeit much slower than I normally would have chose and still could see no content ahead, about level 47 I gave up.
With no more content in sight, it seemed pointless to continue. The server population was decimated by then, nearly all the players I knew having quit for the very same reason. There was nothing for the very active players to do.
I feel making the exp curve easier and easier, so content you started at a suitable level you outlevelled way before the content was fully completed was a huge mistake I loved the extended dungeon crawls poking about genuinely exploring, it was fun. Sigil needed to make levelling much longer, none of the highly active players would have been put off by that, they were enjoying the dungeons, but there was only so much fighting grey mobs one can do. We all wanted to get away from the WoW-esque level to cap in 10 days then the game starts philosophy. Still, the level curve was made easier and easier.
Had they made levelling slower, soloing tougher, released details of the raid content earlier perhaps enough people would have stuck by the game to keep it moderately successful. The whiners who would have quit after the first month would have left no matter what, it wasn't WoW there was no pleasing them. There was a significant population who wanted to play the game and would have stuck with it but for the fact there was literally nothing to do. Had Sigil catered for this crowd they would have had a decently sized, very loyal fanbase. All they needed was to provide something for players to do at max level, instead they deliberately had players hitting max level faster and faster, with nothing awaiting them when they got there. People just got to 45-50 and quit, if they got that far it wasn't the performance that was the deciding factor, most people I knew grumbled about poor performance, but wasn't the issue that killed the game for them.
People might suggest, level slower enjoy the game more, I did enjoy the game, I explored many of the dungeons fully and still no content at max level. This was the population they wanted, the highly commited gamer, of course we were gonna play the game at a high pace, and they left nothing for their target audience to do once we got there.
Will I play VG again? Unlikely, but maybe, but it'd take a serious amount of rebuilding, I wouldn't tolerate the irritations that I put up with at launch, and there better be a whole lot of imaginative and challenging end game content for me when they offer the free month to show the old population how they turned it around.
I have to admit to loving this game, BUT! i find myself agreeing with everything you just said. That is the biggest gripe i have with this game. i can solo through levels way too fast and things my level are just too easy. i want to be challenged by mobs my level and find it diificult with anything above. though at level 31 i find myself looking for level 33-34 3 dot mobs just for s decent challenge. I can only hope that when they eventually do release an expansion that it has a tougher set of mobs/quests etc to do. It's very rare while i am exploring that i have to keep an eye out for that angry wandering dragon.
I have to agree with the things you say friend! That is my only gripe with this game, it's just too easy. everything else i can put up with. The graphics are great, the gameplay is fun, the crafting is excellent. the exploration is the best part of the game! but, it's just too easy. I am hoping that future patches/exp may add more challenging content
You want a challenge... level up a Druid.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With the exception of the amount of players that left due to performance (which is impossible to pin down), I agree with Hillsy 100%. I made all the same attempts to slow my leveling, yet keeping some sense of challenge, and that was before rest XP was introduced.
I do believe that more players quit from poor performance than from lack of end game, although the latter was definitely an issue for quite a few players (I doubt that it was close to 10% of the 175,000 that have quit). So, the recent performance enhancements, memory leaks in particular, were a desperate measure in my opinion. SOE will also have to clean up the complete game to near perfection before they can release the trial.