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Turbine to Users: We own your CC information
Omicron099
Member Posts: 25
I have recently stopped playing LOTRO. So today I went and officially canceled my account, however while doing so I saw no option to remove my CC and billing information from there system. Having been a victim of random charges by unsaid company in the past I wanted to remove my info so that my subscription would not accidentally be restarted. Seeing no way to do this from Turbines website, I contacted support, who basically said,
You either keep your CC information in our system or the game that you PAID for will no longer work, ever.
Full story at http://www.mmocrunch.com/?p=28
Please digg if you find this policy completely unacceptable.
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Turbine_to_Users_We_own_your_CC_information
Comments
I find having only the option for re-occuring subscriptions on the shady side, so I think this is somewhat criminal.
Like he says in the article, it's all about treating your customers like criminals. If you assume everyone you ever deal with is going to steal from you, they're less likely to succeed... at least in theory.
Just one of many reasons why I will never play a game from Turbine.
Digged the article. Good work reporting such nonsense.
Sounds like standard operating procedure for MMO billing. If we're going to serve a shovel of shit to Turbine, why not make sure everyone gets a helping?
Seriously, it's taken you people this long to realize that MMOs are a scam? You'd think after grinding the same boring content for a number of hours in the triple digits and still forking over a sub so you can continue to be bored would be your first tip!
Another retarded complaint. Of course they own your cc information. It's part of their permanent records! Every company with an ounce of sense will keep track of all transactions made, including the full payment method and credit card information used. If you truly believe that companies delete your credit card info after purchase or after you cancel service, you are one ignorant person.
Could they have handled the situation better? Of course. They should have appeased your ignorance by telling you that credit card info has been removed for further billing purposes. But oh well. People make stupid mistakes.
Some days I think that the majority of MMO players are becoming so involved in these virtual worlds that they lose real world common sense. Either that or we're dealing with a lot of ignorant kids who may never know how the real world works.
thats not what was said in the article. The POINT was that they would remove the billing information, but then the game would be deactivated permanently, basically costing me $50 to remove my info.
It was not about whether they would actually delete the info completely 100% throughout there system. They obviously need to keep records. It was about gamers RIGHT to play a game they PAID for regardless of whether or not their CC information is listed on the site and in their active billing system.
Please read the story thoroughly before making yourself look like a "retard"
MMOCrunch
Credit card info is an important piece of identification in online transactions. I would imagine it's doubly important in this case because there isn't even a secret question/answer policy in place.
Removing your credit card info would completely compromise the validity of the account itself, and is probably not even an option in their software anyway because it's such a crazy idea from a record keeping perspective. It makes absolute sense that the account would have to be deleted entirely. There's not enough official identifying information left to prove it against the permanent records.
Prevents account sales pretty well, eh?
Now with 57.3% more flames!
The POINT is that you are going overboard on this issue. You are the one making a big deal out of nothing. Every single time that you use your credit card ANYWHERE, you run the risk of someone double charging or charging again in the future. The fact that you're getting all bent out of shape about it is what is ridiculous.
Obviously, the employee you worked with made a booboo. Indeed, the policy you're talking about is pure retardation. But this wouldn't have ever been a problem had you not been so anal about a situation that demands nothing more then canceling the subscription. You're the jerk who just couldn't let it go and had to create a scene. If you're all this uptight about an MMO provider double charging your credit card, are you this anal to every place you've ever done business with a credit card? I doubt it. THAT's the point.
Business requires trust, from both the consumer and the provider. You have the opportunity to charge back illegitimate charges at any time with no cost to you. There is no need to be so uptight about it, and then to further try and harm a company's reputation by throwing a temper tantrum. I feel no pity for you.
And no, I don't play LOTRO (for anyone who may have contemplated the stereotypical fanboi routine).
I shouldn't be forced to keep my CC information active in their system to keep a game I paid for. End of story.
MMOCrunch
Do you plan to sell your account? If not, this should not be a major issue. If they still charge you next month, and you keep records of your cancellation, including the email they sent you confirming your cancellation, they are in for very bad publicity, at the cost of $10 or $15 for you. I doubt they would risk ruining their reputation to scam $10/15. They are rich enough to live with $10 less. At the end of the day, they will still have to refund the excess charge.If you are not selling your account, no one else can read your profile, only you and turbine. So you are still safe after cancelling the account. Removing CC information on your profile does not remove the information in their database. If you are the designer of the billing system, will you go back to update every old tape and file backup after a customer cancels his account?
On the other hand, if you are trying to sell your account, this policy is somewhat effective in creating troubles in the way.
So are you selling your account?
The issue is larger than me not wanting to have my CC accidentally charged. It's the fact that the Gaming Industry is more and more treating the customer as a criminal in the same way the Music and Movie Industry are. If someone pays for a product, they should be able to use it freely without restriction.
Take BioShock, it has an installation limit, 2 installs I think, maybe 3? Are you saying thats ok? The're only preventing users from installing it on friends comps. So lets turn our heads.
No, it does not matter they are trying to prevent piracy. What if I own 4 comps? What if I have to reinstall cause of a virus, crash?
It started with those game ID numbers that you had to enter before a game could be installed. We turned our heads to that and now there are dozens of anti-piracy systems. None which make installation for the user easier. I remember buying HL2 and waiting 2 days before I could play because of their registration process.
If you give an inch they will take a mile. I have stated my opinion on this subject and thats all I'll say.
MMOCrunch
Omicron099,
Sorry to tell you this, but anytime you put information on the net, it stays there permanently, even when you think you have successfully deleted it, just ask Paris Hilton!
Hey Zaxxon23,
You have issues, man. To be honest, you're hurting yourself and your future postings here far more then you're hurting anyone else. And you deserve it. Next time, count to ten before typing down a tantrum.
Remember No one like a forum Troll and you seriously read like one.
and I'm sure you will have some choice words for me as well.
If you need to reinstall? Yes I reinstall all games every 2 months, I typically upgrade my hardware every 2 months for work purposes. Reinstalling is just running the DVDs and then patching. CC and game ID numbers do not factor in. Multiple computers? Yes I play my game at home, at gf's home, parent's home, and at multiple friends' places. I just go there, log in with my username and pwd and boom it goes. No CC issues, no game ID issues, all I need is a copy of Lotro installed with the latest patch.
Actually this game does allow multiple copies installed. You do not need the DVD in drive to play, you are allowed to give your DVD to your friends to install along with your buddy keys for them to experience a free trial. So there is no issue of piracy. After all, what are you trying to perform piracy on? The game is P2P, and you pay a lumpsum to create a permanent account (if your buy the box or buy it online), and monthly fees to keep playing. There is nothing for you to pirate.
Your argument about paying for a product is again invalid. You pay for the right to play when their game world is up. That is all, you do not own the game, nor the epic armor that drops for you, nor the characters. You cannot sell them for real world cash. There are restrictions placed clearly in the EULA when you pay for the right to play with an account, and you will have to agree to it before you can play. If you do not like the EULA you should not be playing. YES there are restrictions, like restrictions placed when you hire a car. You are not allowed to sell the car.
As for your feeling that the MMO industry is pushing further and further, sorry I do not feel so. After all, its a voluntary purchase. If you do not like the MMO industry, go find another entertainment. I hate the movies, so I stop visiting cinemas and stop buying movie DVDs, no grumbles or web posting.
Because I identify someone who is unreasonable? Think about the facts here. This guy goes nutty about an insignificant issue, and then attempts to harm a company's reputation both on fansites and on his website, which he is apparently marketing as an MMO information/blog site. People like this deserve to be exposed and their logic nullified when they attempt to financially impact a company who has not wronged them.
If you dispute the facts, and feel that he has a reasonable complaint, then that's fine. But considering your comment to the OP, I think that you actually agree with me. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the OP about his unreasonable smear campaign, but as long as we put up with people like this the more they run their mouths and damage reputations that did nothing to deserve it.
cancel your credit card, get a new credit card. Problem solved.
Every MMO company does it. They use that information for account security so they can get a better idea if accounts have been sold or if an account needs to be recalled they can see the credit card information that opens the account.
Pretty much the only people that would be upset about this are people wanting to do something illegal with their copy of the game. (i.e. selling their account)
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
To the OP:
Read the above quote and follow it's advice.
It is simple and effective.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
I sold an EQ account years ago, had not played it for months, it had been cancelled. Find a charge on my card a year later for Everquest. The guy that bought my account ordered the expansion online and instead of using his billing info which he had put in there for monthly fees, it used my CC info to pay for his expansion. Luckily the guy was really nice and paid me back for that.
Currently Playing: Nothing (waitinf for WAR)
Retired: AC2, EVE, DAoC, EQ, WoW
So, where on that shit site or in the screenshot that you have posted does anyone at Turbine admit "We own your CC information" ? The community here may have a large percentage of stupid users but it isn't digg yet so don't start with over sensationalized topics.
The one thing I agreed with was the limit placed on installations. Sometimes I get misty eyed thinking about the simpler times of Starcraft. Oh protoss carriers, you were so fearsome.
Anyway if I feel like uninstalling and then later reinstalling I should be able to however many times I wish.
If you are not being responded to directly, you are probably on my ignore list.
All you folks that are complaining about this are absolutely correct. And you should NEVER use your credit card to EVER buy anything ANYWHERE again!
Because EVERY company that you make a purchase from with your credit card maintains that information permanently. EVERY single one. EVERY single time.
So, either live with it, or go Cash-Only in your life.
Now, STFU !
Did any of you morons read his linked post for crying out loud. What he is saying is that even if he cancels they are saying he wont even get the time he ALREADY PAYED FOR. For crist sake I don't think anyone read your freaking post man.
Other then that that is total crap I have yet to see anything like that in any game ive played so I don't know what the hell people are talking about when they say all mmos are like this.
I usually cancel my sub right after I pay for a moonth so I don't forget about it and I HAVE done this in
UO,WOW,SWG,Lineage,EVE,COV, and and prolly more that I'm not thinking about so to all you saying all company's TOTALY Delete you ACCOUNT if you remove you CC info(even if you have time in the month left) your all a bunch of saps.
Now to all you im refering to go back to the top of this post click the damn link he provided and read the post!!!!!
Now When i refer to removing you cc info I mean so that it wont auto resub. Everyone knows that rrecords are kept in databases but you can stop payments by removing the cc for sub auto activate and I think thats what he is talking about.
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
I DID read the post. There are TWO issues being addressed in the OP text and in the links :
1. That companies keep CC information permanently. They all do that.
2. That if you CANCEL or otherwise REMOVE your CC information from Turbines system, you will NOT be allowed to resub using THAT Credit Card. ALL companies operate like that! If you invalidate your Credit Card with a company, ANY COMPANY, that's it! That card is dead to that company.
Learn how things work in the world.
Or, don't participate.
Newbs.
What he is talking about is completely removing the Credit Card information from their database. Meaning having no record of the credit card information. Turbine stated that if you do that then the account that was originally opened with that credit card is closed permantently. This would prevent account sales...
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)