So what is Obsidian Entertainment's role in the game building process? Well basically, they're the workhorses on the project. Obsidian will be overlooking all design, art and engine improvements, as well as being responsible for the story, the content and pretty much everything else in the game.
Yeah that sounds like they all worked pretty closely together.
BioWare will have a hand in the development of Neverwinter Nights 2. They have already provided Obsidian with the Aurora engine to build the game on. In addition, since they are most familiar with the Aurora engine, they will be providing technical assistance in using the engine to its fullest, and will also be looking over Obsidian's milestones and giving input to keep the project in line with the vision of the original.
Yeah Bioware did a ton of development for NW2......if you call picking up the phone, calling obsidian and asking if they are still on schedule development.
Are you trying to prove yourself wrong? From what you quoted everyone understands that they outsourced NWN2 but they were responsible for the whole thing
...will also be looking over Obsidian's milestones and giving input to keep the project in line with the vision of the original.
Does this sound to you like a friendly, kind relationship? Did Bioware give NWN to Obsidian as a gift? As a sign of true love? No mate. They outsourced it because for some reason they could not, or did not want to develop it themselves. They still wanted to keep the credit for it though. And since NWN1 was their most successfull title, it was a very bad decision. They have the whole NWN franchise connected with their company logo, but unfortunately NWN2 did not prove to be a good game.
Furthermore whether Mass Effect comes to be a good game is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that they have done nothing to improve their experience and involvement in MMOs. Dont expect an amazing title from a company with no experience in the genre. The processes needed for the development and operation of a MMORPG do not exist within Bioware, and it is going to take many years until they are established and optimized. And this means a crappy first product.
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
From and interview with the CEO of Bioware on the merger
GS: People are now wondering what is happening with some of your properties, specifically Mass Effect, which is due out next month. That's a wholly owned BioWare property, correct? GZ: Yes, it is, and it's almost done. Ray and I have both played it! There's other stuff too, there's Dragon Age, there's the Sonic RPG we're making with Sega, there's what we're doing down in Austin, and some other secret stuff as well.
Wholly owned by Bioware, that means EA doesn't get there mits on them. EA will however probably get future projects like the Mass Effect sequels, and Jade Empire. Games like Sonic and the Austin project are pre-existing deals though and will remain Bioware exclusive. Not EA/Bioware. EA does have a checkered past though. and I would be a little wary of buying any EA/Bioware games that are developed outside of the games listed above. LA on the other hand gave Bioware alot of free reign with KOTOR because the time period is set so far away from the movies and other expanded universe cannon. I wouldn't be suprised if they did the same with the MMO considering how much money the first game made them. Only time will tell though, and on the whole LA developing the NGE and pushing it on SOE. I don't think we will know exactly what happened until the game is long dead. It should be an interesting story though.
LOL
EA is BUYING Bioware/Pandemic.. that means all the IP as well as all the staff and buildings and back catalogue.
Wake up, it's just like the purchase of Oirigin, Mythic, Maxis, Bulfrog, Westwood and the other dozen developers they've swallowed up.
But, I also think EA isn't the same as it was five years ago, they've done very little to influence Mythic since their purchase and likely will let BioWare do their own thing as well, as long as it turns a profit. They've only closed down studios when they start making crap games.
Come back when you've done your research into it, and it's due out in 2009 btw.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Didn't SOE renew there SWG liscense right around 2005 early 2006...............hhhhmmmmmm I wonder if there was something in the new contract allowing Bioware to develop a new KOTOR online game. God damn I'm a crafty son of a bitch I do seem to recall SOE spouting off about how they had the exclusive rights to Star Wars online games in the past............................yeah they don't say that anymore.................hhhhmmmmmm
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 for being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
Seriously people, read the damn interviews theyve given, the two main ones can be found on my site below in the forum, along with information about the Hero Engine.
If this is a Star Wars MMO, it's not going to be anything like SWG and it's not going to matter a crap what Obsidian has done or previous BioWare teams. The Austin studio is run by the former lead of Kotor 1 and consists of Kotor 1 and ex-SOE (SWG) developers. Lot's of former people who have worked on Star Wars games. But it's still an IF.
Come back when you've done your research into it, and it's due out in 2009 btw.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Didn't SOE renew there SWG liscense right around 2005 early 2006...............hhhhmmmmmm I wonder if there was something in the new contract allowing Bioware to develop a new KOTOR online game. God damn I'm a crafty son of a bitch I do seem to recall SOE spouting off about how they had the exclusive rights to Star Wars online games in the past............................yeah they don't say that anymore.................hhhhmmmmmm
An unnamed company approached LucasArts in 2005 with a request to develop a new MMO based on Star Wars. We don't know who it was and we don't know what LucasArts said, but we know someone approached them.
Come back when you've done your research into it, and it's due out in 2009 btw.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
An unnamed company approached LucasArts in 2005 with a request to develop a new MMO based on Star Wars. We don't know who it was and we don't know what LucasArts said, but we know someone approached them.
I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
BioWare passed on NWN2 cause they didn't want to work with Atari again, who are utter arseholes about how they handle licenses, they weren't overly thrilled with LucasArts either.
It was Atari who made modules paid for, Atari who pulled support, Atari who demanded a sequel.. I wouldn't want to work with them either if they behaved like that to me. That's why there was a lot of public press about BioWare concentrating on their own IP instead.
Now they have Dragon Age soon, Mass Effect trilogy, a new Jade Empire for 360 (they want one), and an MMO. Seems to be the MMO is probably the only reason they'd want to get involved in another license again, after being burnt badly the last time they had one.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
Anyway, I go back to play World of Darkness beta.
Walton said it's in a playable state, feel free to go read the interviews he's given. I don't know whether it is Star Wars or not, but the MMO is two years into development according to Walton. And seeing as he's one of the main developers on it, I'm going to believe him over you.
From and interview with the CEO of Bioware on the merger
GS: People are now wondering what is happening with some of your properties, specifically Mass Effect, which is due out next month. That's a wholly owned BioWare property, correct? GZ: Yes, it is, and it's almost done. Ray and I have both played it! There's other stuff too, there's Dragon Age, there's the Sonic RPG we're making with Sega, there's what we're doing down in Austin, and some other secret stuff as well.
Wholly owned by Bioware, that means EA doesn't get there mits on them. EA will however probably get future projects like the Mass Effect sequels, and Jade Empire. Games like Sonic and the Austin project are pre-existing deals though and will remain Bioware exclusive. Not EA/Bioware. EA does have a checkered past though. and I would be a little wary of buying any EA/Bioware games that are developed outside of the games listed above. LA on the other hand gave Bioware alot of free reign with KOTOR because the time period is set so far away from the movies and other expanded universe cannon. I wouldn't be suprised if they did the same with the MMO considering how much money the first game made them. Only time will tell though, and on the whole LA developing the NGE and pushing it on SOE. I don't think we will know exactly what happened until the game is long dead. It should be an interesting story though.
LOL
EA is BUYING Bioware/Pandemic.. that means all the IP as well as all the staff and buildings and back catalogue.
Wake up, it's just like the purchase of Oirigin, Mythic, Maxis, Bulfrog, Westwood and the other dozen developers they've swallowed up.
But, I also think EA isn't the same as it was five years ago, they've done very little to influence Mythic since their purchase and likely will let BioWare do their own thing as well, as long as it turns a profit. They've only closed down studios when they start making crap games.
Yes, EA bought Bioware. Any pre-existing deal would remain a wholly Bioware project though. I'm done trying to explain this point. Bioware does not become EA/Bioware until the FCC approves the deal, which in turn will not be till January or later. Any games developed by Bioware in partnership with another company or on their own before that time has nothing to do with EA. After the FCC approves the deal then EA takes over but Bioware is still obligated to honor their pre-existing contracts like the Austin project and their LA/Bioware project which are one and the same.
I'm aware of how much they lie, I work for one of these gaming corporations, but I'm dillusional enough to think that everything they've said about the MMO is a lie. It may not be Star Wars, but none of that changes anything they've said about the MMO.
Guess you're just too butt sore from the way SOE and LA treated you in SWG. Nevermind, LA has been like that since they release Xwing, and no other company will change that.
Come back when you've done your research into it, and it's due out in 2009 btw.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroesare due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
Umm, Gods and Heroes is due out........NEVER, since it was canceled.
And let's not forget that Bioware has never developed or run an MMO.
I want this game to kick butt just like everyone else, but let's not get our hopes up. With both LA and EA in the mix, they are likely to cater to the lowest common denominator.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 for being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
And Bioware has based their success on the fact that Star Wars has about a billion more fans than all those games combined. Not to mention they created what is thought of by the majority of those fans as the best Star Wars game ever. Billions of fans that would buy the next Bioware Star Wars game no matter what. Let's say for a moment that people did hold Bioware responsible for the turd that is NW2. I'd say Bioware is pretty safe in taking that hit. SWG had 300 to 350k at it's height, I think the chances that those vets jumpin on to KOTOR online are pretty high. God forbid it ends up being a console MMO for the 360, Bioware would hit 500k subs in the first week. We would just have to figure out how to deal with all those live noobs.
The Austin team are big WoW fans, so if it is Star Wars, expect WoW meets Kotor. Probably won't be much from SWG they incorporate, they've already ruled out player cities.
And everyone starts somewhere, I think it any company can develop a good MMO first time, it's an RPG specialist like BioWare.
Heres hoping for orcs in battlecruisers. Lets all pray to mighty vader they do not make a star wars game.
You keep saying you think everything will be in game at launch? Have they even announced which game they are making? Or are u living in fuucking cooko land, like most people on this site.
Well sir, the only people that haven't accepted the fact that Bioware is making a Star Wars MMO are the seriously mentally challenged or SOE employees. Whoops, I guess those are kinda the same thing. Everybody knows it man, just accept it. The only reason we haven't seen an official announcment yet is probably due to lucasarts contractual agreement with SOE.
Anyway the list is things we will see at launch because Bioware is actually a good developer of games. Unlike your SOE who seems to take a dump on every IP they get their greedy little hands on. Want to go down the list................................here we go 1. SWG 2. Matrix Online 3. Pirates of the Burning Sea 4. Vanguard 5. Star Trek Online( yeah I know it's years till release but now thats SOE is involved we all know it's gonna blow) 6. Everquest 2.................even though Everquest 2 is the most succesfull MMO in SOE's stable it's still shit. God could you imagine what Bioware would have done with Everquest 2, now that would have been a worthy sequel. Thats pretty much all I got, 6 games that should have at least 500k subs a piece but are instead circling the drain. Now I want you to go into Smedely's office and tell him you just got pwnt and do not want to come into forums you don't belong in anymore. Damn SOE employee's
Hmm lets see Matrix Online - Developed by Warner Bros & Sega Pirates of the Burning Sea - Developed by Flying Labs Software Vanguard - Developed by Sigil It seems the only two you listed that were developed by SOE were Star Wars and Everquest II which is pretty successful, no matter what you think. <Mod edit>
HMMMMMMM.........and all these games too a big dump in Sony's collective lap didn't they and I'm fairly sure SOE is handling all development for Vanguard as well now that sygill does not exist anymore. The point is, when you let SOE touch your game it turns into a pile or in Vanguards case becomes a bigger pile. Correct me if I'm wrong though aren't you the one trolling in the wrong forum. The fanboi forum is one down sir, notice that the vet forum is always on top!!!
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 for being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
Don't you just love when people spew a sentence like "Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2"?
First and foremost please don't speak about large portions of their fans being lost. We know you don't really know that and this statement was probably used to beef your view up. If you are basing it on people you know, general talk or articles you've read then you may want talk about these particular instances instead of claiming to speak for supposed large portions of their fan base. I can speak from my particular discussions or talking about games, I have never really heard anything bad being said about anything Bioware has done to date. (Besides signing up to play cousin to EA).
As far as games who use their engine, well...many do. Can't fault Bioware for what other gaming co's do with their engine.
Hmm, not having the resources to create an MMO? (the post you're replying to)...um it's a well known fact that EA just bought Bioware for 800mil +. They have quite a few former designers from successful MMO's. If I recall (don't quote me on this cause I may be wrong) Blizzard dumped 40 mil into wow at start-launch.
Hmm, "whose numbers can't be compared to blizzards". Well, ya know...you gotta start somewhere. I will say that their games can be put up against Blizzards pre WoW lineup. Not genre wise, but numbers sold. I honestly have this idea in my head that when I think the best game to ever hit stores under a Star Wars name was KotoR and that I can't be alone in this.
Then again, If we are going to compare numbers sold, (which is what you are doing because Bioware has yet to release an MMO to compete against what Blizzard is doing), can we say the same thing for like Halo 3 which holds the record for most games sold in a day at like 2.4mil. Or how about compare Blizzard sales to EA's and the multitude of gaming houses they own, not to mention the games they put out themselves creation wise.
Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
**Edit** Oh yeah...someone a few post above mine said something to the effect, even if Bioware can't pull in numbers because of their name...if it's a Star Wars MMO, case closed...built in numbers.
It is my opinion(as I really don't know) that Star Wars has more fans than any IP ever or is at least THE household name when it comes to sci-fi. The only other one that I think compares would be Star Trek. Maybe more, but this is from my opinion of what I've seen and exp from birth til now.
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 for being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
And Bioware has based their success on the fact that Star Wars has about a billion more fans than all those games combined. Not to mention they created what is thought of by the majority of those fans as the best Star Wars game ever. Billions of fans that would buy the next Bioware Star Wars game no matter what. Let's say for a moment that people did hold Bioware responsible for the turd that is NW2. I'd say Bioware is pretty safe in taking that hit. SWG had 300 to 350k at it's height, I think the chances that those vets jumpin on to KOTOR online are pretty high. God forbid it ends up being a console MMO for the 360, Bioware would hit 500k subs in the first week. We would just have to figure out how to deal with all those live noobs.
The millions of blizzard customers were all gamers. the "billions" star wars fans are not all gamers. especially if you take account of the age of sw fans you will see that the vast majority of them are not gamers at all, some play games casually (prolly have played kotor) and a small amount would get into a subscription based mmo. these are most probably the player base of swg. if we add to that the reasonable expansion of the mmorpg market i'd say we can estimate around 300k-600k players. LotRO is a nice example. They released after a recent box office hit, based on the most popular fantasy books in the world. They never reached the million they were targeting and subs are going already going down. I'd be surprised if LotrO has more than 400k actually. Dont have so high hopes. Its not WoW day every day, and it will be a long time until a game beats the sub numbers of WoW, and that game will definitly not be a wow clone. The grind type of gameplay has reached its limits with wow and lineage2.
Heres hoping for orcs in battlecruisers. Lets all pray to mighty vader they do not make a star wars game.
You keep saying you think everything will be in game at launch? Have they even announced which game they are making? Or are u living in fuucking cooko land, like most people on this site.
Well sir, the only people that haven't accepted the fact that Bioware is making a Star Wars MMO are the seriously mentally challenged or SOE employees. Whoops, I guess those are kinda the same thing. Everybody knows it man, just accept it. The only reason we haven't seen an official announcment yet is probably due to lucasarts contractual agreement with SOE.
Anyway the list is things we will see at launch because Bioware is actually a good developer of games. Unlike your SOE who seems to take a dump on every IP they get their greedy little hands on. Want to go down the list................................here we go
1. SWG
2. Matrix Online
3. Pirates of the Burning Sea
4. Vanguard
5. Star Trek Online( yeah I know it's years till release but now thats SOE is involved we all know it's gonna blow)
6. Everquest 2.................even though Everquest 2 is the most succesfull MMO in SOE's stable it's still shit. God could you imagine what Bioware would have done with Everquest 2, now that would have been a worthy sequel.
Thats pretty much all I got, 6 games that should have at least 500k subs a piece but are instead circling the drain. Now I want you to go into Smedely's office and tell him you just got pwnt and do not want to come into forums you don't belong in anymore. Damn SOE employee's
Hmm lets see
Matrix Online - Developed by Warner Bros & Sega
Pirates of the Burning Sea - Developed by Flying Labs Software
Vanguard - Developed by Sigil
It seems the only two you listed that were developed by SOE were Star Wars and Everquest II which is pretty successful, no matter what you think.
Why don't you take out your pent up hatred on your spouse or something instead of trolling these forums about things you don't know about.
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 for being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
I was expecting you would ask that one . And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
And Bioware has based their success on the fact that Star Wars has about a billion more fans than all those games combined. Not to mention they created what is thought of by the majority of those fans as the best Star Wars game ever. Billions of fans that would buy the next Bioware Star Wars game no matter what. Let's say for a moment that people did hold Bioware responsible for the turd that is NW2. I'd say Bioware is pretty safe in taking that hit. SWG had 300 to 350k at it's height, I think the chances that those vets jumpin on to KOTOR online are pretty high. God forbid it ends up being a console MMO for the 360, Bioware would hit 500k subs in the first week. We would just have to figure out how to deal with all those live noobs.
The millions of blizzard customers were all gamers. the "billions" star wars fans are not all gamers. especially if you take account of the age of sw fans you will see that the vast majority of them are not gamers at all, some play games casually (prolly have played kotor) and a small amount would get into a subscription based mmo. these are most probably the player base of swg. if we add to that the reasonable expansion of the mmorpg market i'd say we can estimate around 300k-600k players. LotRO is a nice example. They released after a recent box office hit, based on the most popular fantasy books in the world. They never reached the million they were targeting and subs are going already going down. I'd be surprised if LotrO has more than 400k actually. Dont have so high hopes. Its not WoW day every day, and it will be a long time until a game beats the sub numbers of WoW, and that game will definitly not be a wow clone. The grind type of gameplay has reached its limits with wow and lineage2.
I'm not looking for WoW numbers but even by your estimates, in todays MMO world 300k to 600k is a major success!! Also I would contend that even if only 10% of all Star Wars fans are gamers and only 10% of that number signed up to play a KOTOR MMO your still looking at a Million subs easy.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine. Dec 2005 - Dec 2009 4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
Anyway, I go back to play World of Darkness beta.
Well he might be a little of in how long the MMO is in development but a interview of last year(11/27/2006)does tell some things about the game though stil no specifics about what the game is. But intresting nevertheless.
" How long has your new MMORPG been in development?
Gordon Walton, co-studio director, BioWare Austin: We announced the game around March, but we'd really started on it in the beginning of December 2005. "
Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
Comments
...will also be looking over Obsidian's milestones and giving input to keep the project in line with the vision of the original.
Does this sound to you like a friendly, kind relationship? Did Bioware give NWN to Obsidian as a gift? As a sign of true love? No mate. They outsourced it because for some reason they could not, or did not want to develop it themselves. They still wanted to keep the credit for it though. And since NWN1 was their most successfull title, it was a very bad decision. They have the whole NWN franchise connected with their company logo, but unfortunately NWN2 did not prove to be a good game.
Furthermore whether Mass Effect comes to be a good game is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that they have done nothing to improve their experience and involvement in MMOs. Dont expect an amazing title from a company with no experience in the genre. The processes needed for the development and operation of a MMORPG do not exist within Bioware, and it is going to take many years until they are established and optimized. And this means a crappy first product.
LMAO, the whole point of the argument is that Bioware did not develop NW2 Obsidian did. So while yes they did give them an engine and check in every once in awhile. It wasn't an in-house game so you can't fault Bioware for NW2 being a turd. As far as Bioware not having the resources to create a quality MMO their first time out. Haven't they been down in AUstin since 2005 gearing up to do just that, and haven't a whole shit load of developers from SOE (mainly SWG pre-cu) dropped SOE like a bad habit to go work for Bioware. Let me ask you this........what MMO did blizzard publish before WoW?
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
EA is BUYING Bioware/Pandemic.. that means all the IP as well as all the staff and buildings and back catalogue.
Wake up, it's just like the purchase of Oirigin, Mythic, Maxis, Bulfrog, Westwood and the other dozen developers they've swallowed up.
But, I also think EA isn't the same as it was five years ago, they've done very little to influence Mythic since their purchase and likely will let BioWare do their own thing as well, as long as it turns a profit. They've only closed down studios when they start making crap games.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Didn't SOE renew there SWG liscense right around 2005 early 2006...............hhhhmmmmmm I wonder if there was something in the new contract allowing Bioware to develop a new KOTOR online game. God damn I'm a crafty son of a bitch
I do seem to recall SOE spouting off about how they had the exclusive rights to Star Wars online games in the past............................yeah they don't say that anymore.................hhhhmmmmmm
I was expecting you would ask that one
. And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
Seriously people, read the damn interviews theyve given, the two main ones can be found on my site below in the forum, along with information about the Hero Engine.
If this is a Star Wars MMO, it's not going to be anything like SWG and it's not going to matter a crap what Obsidian has done or previous BioWare teams. The Austin studio is run by the former lead of Kotor 1 and consists of Kotor 1 and ex-SOE (SWG) developers. Lot's of former people who have worked on Star Wars games. But it's still an IF.
http://kotor.darksword.co.uk/
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Didn't SOE renew there SWG liscense right around 2005 early 2006...............hhhhmmmmmm I wonder if there was something in the new contract allowing Bioware to develop a new KOTOR online game. God damn I'm a crafty son of a bitch
I do seem to recall SOE spouting off about how they had the exclusive rights to Star Wars online games in the past............................yeah they don't say that anymore.................hhhhmmmmmm
An unnamed company approached LucasArts in 2005 with a request to develop a new MMO based on Star Wars. We don't know who it was and we don't know what LucasArts said, but we know someone approached them.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
Anyway, I go back to play World of Darkness beta.
Can i find that on youtube?
BioWare passed on NWN2 cause they didn't want to work with Atari again, who are utter arseholes about how they handle licenses, they weren't overly thrilled with LucasArts either.
It was Atari who made modules paid for, Atari who pulled support, Atari who demanded a sequel.. I wouldn't want to work with them either if they behaved like that to me. That's why there was a lot of public press about BioWare concentrating on their own IP instead.
Now they have Dragon Age soon, Mass Effect trilogy, a new Jade Empire for 360 (they want one), and an MMO. Seems to be the MMO is probably the only reason they'd want to get involved in another license again, after being burnt badly the last time they had one.
Walton said it's in a playable state, feel free to go read the interviews he's given. I don't know whether it is Star Wars or not, but the MMO is two years into development according to Walton. And seeing as he's one of the main developers on it, I'm going to believe him over you.
EA is BUYING Bioware/Pandemic.. that means all the IP as well as all the staff and buildings and back catalogue.
Wake up, it's just like the purchase of Oirigin, Mythic, Maxis, Bulfrog, Westwood and the other dozen developers they've swallowed up.
But, I also think EA isn't the same as it was five years ago, they've done very little to influence Mythic since their purchase and likely will let BioWare do their own thing as well, as long as it turns a profit. They've only closed down studios when they start making crap games.
Yes, EA bought Bioware. Any pre-existing deal would remain a wholly Bioware project though. I'm done trying to explain this point. Bioware does not become EA/Bioware until the FCC approves the deal, which in turn will not be till January or later. Any games developed by Bioware in partnership with another company or on their own before that time has nothing to do with EA. After the FCC approves the deal then EA takes over but Bioware is still obligated to honor their pre-existing contracts like the Austin project and their LA/Bioware project which are one and the same.
go on. believe corporate statements. they always tell the truth.
victim
I'm aware of how much they lie, I work for one of these gaming corporations, but I'm dillusional enough to think that everything they've said about the MMO is a lie. It may not be Star Wars, but none of that changes anything they've said about the MMO.
Guess you're just too butt sore from the way SOE and LA treated you in SWG. Nevermind, LA has been like that since they release Xwing, and no other company will change that.
Yes, and WAR, AoC and Gods and Heroes are due out in 2007. No way they are going to finish an MMO in less than 3 years.
Development of the BioWare MMO started in December 2005 with a premade engine called the Hero Engine.
Dec 2005 - Dec 2009
4 years. The MMO is already in a playable state according to Walton, one of the developers on it.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
Umm, Gods and Heroes is due out........NEVER, since it was canceled.
And let's not forget that Bioware has never developed or run an MMO.
I want this game to kick butt just like everyone else, but let's not get our hopes up. With both LA and EA in the mix, they are likely to cater to the lowest common denominator.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
I was expecting you would ask that one
. And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
And Bioware has based their success on the fact that Star Wars has about a billion more fans than all those games combined. Not to mention they created what is thought of by the majority of those fans as the best Star Wars game ever. Billions of fans that would buy the next Bioware Star Wars game no matter what. Let's say for a moment that people did hold Bioware responsible for the turd that is NW2. I'd say Bioware is pretty safe in taking that hit. SWG had 300 to 350k at it's height, I think the chances that those vets jumpin on to KOTOR online are pretty high. God forbid it ends up being a console MMO for the 360, Bioware would hit 500k subs in the first week. We would just have to figure out how to deal with all those live noobs.
The Austin team are big WoW fans, so if it is Star Wars, expect WoW meets Kotor. Probably won't be much from SWG they incorporate, they've already ruled out player cities.
And everyone starts somewhere, I think it any company can develop a good MMO first time, it's an RPG specialist like BioWare.
Matrix Online - Developed by Warner Bros & Sega
Pirates of the Burning Sea - Developed by Flying Labs Software
Vanguard - Developed by Sigil
It seems the only two you listed that were developed by SOE were Star Wars and Everquest II which is pretty successful, no matter what you think.
<Mod edit>
HMMMMMMM.........and all these games too a big dump in Sony's collective lap didn't they and I'm fairly sure SOE is handling all development for Vanguard as well now that sygill does not exist anymore. The point is, when you let SOE touch your game it turns into a pile or in Vanguards case becomes a bigger pile. Correct me if I'm wrong though aren't you the one trolling in the wrong forum. The fanboi forum is one down sir, notice that the vet forum is always on top!!!
Don't you just love when people spew a sentence like "Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2"?
First and foremost please don't speak about large portions of their fans being lost. We know you don't really know that and this statement was probably used to beef your view up. If you are basing it on people you know, general talk or articles you've read then you may want talk about these particular instances instead of claiming to speak for supposed large portions of their fan base. I can speak from my particular discussions or talking about games, I have never really heard anything bad being said about anything Bioware has done to date. (Besides signing up to play cousin to EA).
As far as games who use their engine, well...many do. Can't fault Bioware for what other gaming co's do with their engine.
Hmm, not having the resources to create an MMO? (the post you're replying to)...um it's a well known fact that EA just bought Bioware for 800mil +. They have quite a few former designers from successful MMO's. If I recall (don't quote me on this cause I may be wrong) Blizzard dumped 40 mil into wow at start-launch.
Hmm, "whose numbers can't be compared to blizzards". Well, ya know...you gotta start somewhere. I will say that their games can be put up against Blizzards pre WoW lineup. Not genre wise, but numbers sold. I honestly have this idea in my head that when I think the best game to ever hit stores under a Star Wars name was KotoR and that I can't be alone in this.
Then again, If we are going to compare numbers sold, (which is what you are doing because Bioware has yet to release an MMO to compete against what Blizzard is doing), can we say the same thing for like Halo 3 which holds the record for most games sold in a day at like 2.4mil. Or how about compare Blizzard sales to EA's and the multitude of gaming houses they own, not to mention the games they put out themselves creation wise.
Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
**Edit** Oh yeah...someone a few post above mine said something to the effect, even if Bioware can't pull in numbers because of their name...if it's a Star Wars MMO, case closed...built in numbers.
It is my opinion(as I really don't know) that Star Wars has more fans than any IP ever or is at least THE household name when it comes to sci-fi. The only other one that I think compares would be Star Trek. Maybe more, but this is from my opinion of what I've seen and exp from birth til now.
I was expecting you would ask that one
. And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
And Bioware has based their success on the fact that Star Wars has about a billion more fans than all those games combined. Not to mention they created what is thought of by the majority of those fans as the best Star Wars game ever. Billions of fans that would buy the next Bioware Star Wars game no matter what. Let's say for a moment that people did hold Bioware responsible for the turd that is NW2. I'd say Bioware is pretty safe in taking that hit. SWG had 300 to 350k at it's height, I think the chances that those vets jumpin on to KOTOR online are pretty high. God forbid it ends up being a console MMO for the 360, Bioware would hit 500k subs in the first week. We would just have to figure out how to deal with all those live noobs.
The millions of blizzard customers were all gamers. the "billions" star wars fans are not all gamers. especially if you take account of the age of sw fans you will see that the vast majority of them are not gamers at all, some play games casually (prolly have played kotor) and a small amount would get into a subscription based mmo. these are most probably the player base of swg. if we add to that the reasonable expansion of the mmorpg market i'd say we can estimate around 300k-600k players. LotRO is a nice example. They released after a recent box office hit, based on the most popular fantasy books in the world. They never reached the million they were targeting and subs are going already going down. I'd be surprised if LotrO has more than 400k actually. Dont have so high hopes. Its not WoW day every day, and it will be a long time until a game beats the sub numbers of WoW, and that game will definitly not be a wow clone. The grind type of gameplay has reached its limits with wow and lineage2.
Anyway the list is things we will see at launch because Bioware is actually a good developer of games. Unlike your SOE who seems to take a dump on every IP they get their greedy little hands on. Want to go down the list................................here we go
1. SWG
2. Matrix Online
3. Pirates of the Burning Sea
4. Vanguard
5. Star Trek Online( yeah I know it's years till release but now thats SOE is involved we all know it's gonna blow)
6. Everquest 2.................even though Everquest 2 is the most succesfull MMO in SOE's stable it's still shit. God could you imagine what Bioware would have done with Everquest 2, now that would have been a worthy sequel.
Thats pretty much all I got, 6 games that should have at least 500k subs a piece but are instead circling the drain. Now I want you to go into Smedely's office and tell him you just got pwnt and do not want to come into forums you don't belong in anymore. Damn SOE employee's
Hmm lets see
Matrix Online - Developed by Warner Bros & Sega
Pirates of the Burning Sea - Developed by Flying Labs Software
Vanguard - Developed by Sigil
It seems the only two you listed that were developed by SOE were Star Wars and Everquest II which is pretty successful, no matter what you think.
Why don't you take out your pent up hatred on your spouse or something instead of trolling these forums about things you don't know about.
Oh and here is some more food for thought.......http://www.gamespot.com/news/6127635.html
Matrix has been developed by SOE for a few years now and it's still a bigger turd than when it launched.
Vanguard is a wholly SOE property now, developed and published by SOE.
I was expecting you would ask that one
. And it is a very correct question. The fact is that WoW based its success on Blizzards huge playerbase. Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo had sold millions of copies and had created a massive fun club, ppl that would buy Blizzards next title no matter what. Bioware has nothing in common with Blizzard in that aspect. Actually they lost a big portion of their fans (whose numbers cannot be compared with Blizzards) with the way they managed NWN2. Blizzard made nice games and sticked to them. Its branding strategy paid off when WoW was released. Bioware on the other hand played a stupid corporate trick with its best title.
If the exact same game (wow) was developed from another company, with another name at the same year, it would struggle for subscribers.
And Bioware has based their success on the fact that Star Wars has about a billion more fans than all those games combined. Not to mention they created what is thought of by the majority of those fans as the best Star Wars game ever. Billions of fans that would buy the next Bioware Star Wars game no matter what. Let's say for a moment that people did hold Bioware responsible for the turd that is NW2. I'd say Bioware is pretty safe in taking that hit. SWG had 300 to 350k at it's height, I think the chances that those vets jumpin on to KOTOR online are pretty high. God forbid it ends up being a console MMO for the 360, Bioware would hit 500k subs in the first week. We would just have to figure out how to deal with all those live noobs.
The millions of blizzard customers were all gamers. the "billions" star wars fans are not all gamers. especially if you take account of the age of sw fans you will see that the vast majority of them are not gamers at all, some play games casually (prolly have played kotor) and a small amount would get into a subscription based mmo. these are most probably the player base of swg. if we add to that the reasonable expansion of the mmorpg market i'd say we can estimate around 300k-600k players. LotRO is a nice example. They released after a recent box office hit, based on the most popular fantasy books in the world. They never reached the million they were targeting and subs are going already going down. I'd be surprised if LotrO has more than 400k actually. Dont have so high hopes. Its not WoW day every day, and it will be a long time until a game beats the sub numbers of WoW, and that game will definitly not be a wow clone. The grind type of gameplay has reached its limits with wow and lineage2.
I'm not looking for WoW numbers but even by your estimates, in todays MMO world 300k to 600k is a major success!! Also I would contend that even if only 10% of all Star Wars fans are gamers and only 10% of that number signed up to play a KOTOR MMO your still looking at a Million subs easy.
Yeah right. We dont even have an official confirmation. We still dont know if we should actually expect a new Star Wars mmo, and you believe that the game is there in a playable state?
Anyway, I go back to play World of Darkness beta.
Well he might be a little of in how long the MMO is in development but a interview of last year(11/27/2006)does tell some things about the game though stil no specifics about what the game is. But intresting nevertheless.
" How long has your new MMORPG been in development?
Gordon Walton, co-studio director, BioWare Austin: We announced the game around March, but we'd really started on it in the beginning of December 2005. "
read the full > http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.