Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
I'll except that, although you are starting to sound a little bit like a blizzard employee NW1 and 2 are not the issue though. The point is that a Star Wars game with Bioware on the box is going to be a major draw, ala Madden, Halo 3, Starcraft, etc......and I'd just like to say that while WoW is a very well done game it's set MMO's back by 5 to 10 years because it's gotten so big. Everyone is trying to make the next WoW money machine instead of just making an innovative product. I don't bieleve Bioware will fall into that trap though.........hopefully. Starcraft 2 does look like it's going to be a mind blowing game though and I look forward to the hours of my life I will lose playing.
I would also argue the "You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft)"
If your just talking PC games, ok. Multi-platform though the statement doesn't hold up that well.
Best selling computer ever is The Sims, ironically enough, worst selling MMO ever? The Sims Online.
There are no given trends in the industry, but Walton and the other Austin devs are following Blizzards lead, Quality over Quantity, and trying to bring their single player experience to an MMO. They admit they won't beat WoW, but they also admit they aren't trying to, they just want to compete on a decent level.
Whatever they make will do better than Lotro, but nowhere near as good as WoW, because BioWare doesn't have the global fanbase that Blizzard has. However, Star Wars does, so there is a slim chance that it can appeal to enough people to make them do better than anyone else is.
We'll see, it's still unknown whether it's Star Wars MMO or not. But, I'm quite looking forward to their MMO either way, their approach sounds fun.
Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
I'll except that, although you are starting to sound a little bit like a blizzard employee NW1 and 2 are not the issue though. The point is that a Star Wars game with Bioware on the box is going to be a major draw, ala Madden, Halo 3, Starcraft, etc......and I'd just like to say that while WoW is a very well done game it's set MMO's back by 5 to 10 years because it's gotten so big. Everyone is trying to make the next WoW money machine instead of just making an innovative product. I don't bieleve Bioware will fall into that trap though.........hopefully. Starcraft 2 does look like it's going to be a mind blowing game though and I look forward to the hours of my life I will lose playing.
I would also argue the "You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft)"
If your just talking PC games, ok. Multi-platform though the statement doesn't hold up that well.
Haha. I think i sounded as a Blizzard employee indeed. I am not one though, and I hate the turn Blizzard took after beeing aqcuired by Vivendi and released WoW. But still those three games are the reason for WoW's success and not WoW itself. And yes I am talking about pc only. I never was a fan of consoles and i dont think that a proper mmoRPG for consoles is feasible, due to the nature of the games (and the consoles). You need a keyboard and a mouse.
Originally posted by huxflux2004 Originally posted by Sovren1 Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was). as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
I'm not comparing anything...you are. If you want to compare numbers there are a multitude of games that you can do this with. Is it right though? Tally up how many copies of any warcraft game to date have been sold(exclude wow of course). And compare it to numbers sold of the bioware lineup. The fact that people still play means nothing in this. Those are enthusiasts who will buy these games till they aren't published anymore. I think you find that they can be compared pretty evenly.
If you do want to compare between competitive games then try comparing Warcraft to any other popular game out there that is still being played. How about EA's battlefield series, or counterstrike, or halo, or madden (who are all still being played pretty competitively which actually means nothing)? Blizzard made RTS; Bioware makes RPG'S. It's all apple and oranges.
So, when you take the standpoint of even throwing these two companies into a throw down (which is what you have done when you say "which doesn't compare to Blizzard's numbers"), you have to realize that these are really two different types of companies focused on very different things and that they both have huge fan bases.
My example could be something like...ooh, alot of folks still love and play Battelfield 2 (it's still top 5 games played on the old x-fire regularly which may be some sort of indication). Now what if they chose to add some lore and make it a MMOFPS? Would you then compare what blizzard has done pre-WoW to what EA has done or even EA has done with the Battelfield series?
Notice that LA, Bioware, and Blizzard all have a spot in the top 10 so you really can't say that LA and Bioware haven't made a name for themselves in PC gaming that can stand alogside blizzard. It all comes down to personal preference though. If I had my choice Tie-fighter would have been number 1 followed by half life 2
II bet all you people who think they know whats going to happen.... ARE going to be really pissed when it comes out.... all your trying to do is turn what ever it is there making in to SWG pre -cu ... not going to happen sorry Bio is going to do there own thing just like they always do
Yea, kinda pointless arguing about single player games.. I hate all of Blizzard's games except Diablo 1 and WoW, and even those are boring after the first time through.
Bioware is known for making RPG's. Just thought I would make a list of things that we are going to see at launch that SOE couldn't figure out till well into SWG's lifespan if at all. 1. Space battles- Star Wars and epic space battles go hand and hand. I wouldn't be shocked if we got personal ships, capitol ships, and a better space combat system than that JTL shit at launch. Have you played the KOTOR games? Ship combat was extremely simplistic. Don't look for depth here and certainly not an overly twitch based system. As to wether it will be better that will be a matter of opinion. 2. A true Master/Padawan system, it's cannon it can't be ignored. This would be a great community feature and really immerse players into the game together. Padawan will likely simply be a level based title. Not likely that any company will restrict a player by permanently linking them to another player. 3. A combat system that works, SOE still hasn't figured this one out. Something tells me that Bioware will get it right though. It will be turn based, and it will be deep. I mean cmon it's Bioware for christ sakes. If they truly going to keep to the KOTOR legacy then the combat system is already in place and is based on the DnD core rules. 4. Players will actually effect the story of the game. KOTOR is pretty uncharted territory in the Star Wars universe leaving Bioware to weave a tale that everyone of us will be able to effect in one way or the other. Bioware will not be shackled by the cannon of the movies so it's gonna be a free for all:) This is not a matter of KOTOR or SW canon, but more a technological and pratcicality issue with how do you allow several thousand people on one shard to change the world. Bioware has hinted the game will be ground breaking so maybe it might make it into the game perhaps in a Sith vs. Jedi control of the universe. 5. Now this one is a possibility but I'm not certain of it because few developers have the balls to do it. There is hope though considering alot of Pre-CU devs are working with Bioware Austin now. Skill based leveling. I think were going to see skill trees like we did in Pre-CU SWG and were going to be able to mix and match our templates again. The only reason this did not work in Pre-CU SWG is because SOE devs do not know how to code, balance, or test for a shit. Not likely. See my explanation of the combat system. The game rules are likely already set and will use an expanded version of what was already in the KOTOR games and will be level based with a skill point system. 6. A true Jedi vs. Sith faction system........nuff said. Actually not e-nuff said. Not sure what you mean here but perhaps it could entail control of the universe. Well thats all I can think of at the moment. I think the list above is definatly going to be in the game at launch. I mean cmon, it's not like SOE is developing the game or anything Post some of your ideas!!!!!!
Lets see...lets put the Warcraft games up against madden or something. You may say it's not the same thing, well it is when Bioware has yet to put out a game to directly compete with the WoW monster. Thus obviously not having the same type of numbers. If we are talking before WoW, well then I think they do alright in comparison.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
lol your funny.. Bio were is an awsome company whos games rock.. Bliz yea there a good company but SC sucked IMO ( READ THAT EVERY SC FAN I SAID IN MY OPINION ) SC well be same thing better Graphics, warcraft ( Never been a fan).. so to me the only really good game Blizz has made was Diablo and they let that one die to bad
Man yall act like bioware had no control when EA bought them. Im sure almost everything was in Biowares favor that if the mmo is LA publsihed and Bioware developed then really EA doesnt have that much control. And dont say it will be EA published immposible if it is SW then LA wouldnt let that happen.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Ive said this before and ill say it again. How can you be sure its even going to be kotor, and not just a completely new star wars universe. The fact of the matter is you can't. First kotor would be hard to turn into a mmo, but if they did this the game play would be allot different from the single player games. I'm almost 60% sure that its not going to be kotor but a completely new star wars mmo.
Originally posted by Arndur Man yall act like bioware had no control when EA bought them. Im sure almost everything was in Biowares favor that if the mmo is LA publsihed and Bioware developed then really EA doesnt have that much control. And dont say it will be EA published immposible if it is SW then LA wouldnt let that happen.
I totally agree here. I just can't see LA and EA splitting the profits on this one. These two companies seem to me to be very aggressive in that manner. **blanket statement** EA doesn't play well with others...til they buy them and I don't think LA is selling.
Ive said this before and ill say it again. How can you be sure its even going to be kotor, and not just a completely new star wars universe. The fact of the matter is you can't. First kotor would be hard to turn into a mmo, but if they did this the game play would be allot different from the single player games. I'm almost 60% sure that its not going to be kotor but a completely new star wars mmo.
When would you set it?
Kotor era is great imo, total freedom, lots of jedi, whether it relates to the single player games or not doesn't matter, it's 4000 years between Reven and Palpatine, plenty of time to set it in.
Clone wars & Galactic civil war are both pretty restrictive, and more combat orientated than roleplaying orientated.
Post-GCW was much happening for normal people, lots for the heroes but we won't play as heroes.
NJO was bad, the Vong are awful and the whole story has already been told in great detail.
Legacy, fairly unknown, but anything riding on the back of NJO is going to suck cause it's building on something that already sucks.
Originally posted by sukochie Ive said this before and ill say it again. How can you be sure its even going to be kotor, and not just a completely new star wars universe. The fact of the matter is you can't. First kotor would be hard to turn into a mmo, but if they did this the game play would be allot different from the single player games. I'm almost 60% sure that its not going to be kotor but a completely new star wars mmo.
If it were KotoR, I think we all know that it won't be played like the single player. I will speak for myself and not others...what appealed to me most about KotoR wasn't the gameplay or game mechanics. It was the age, the period, the story. That is what I think is or should be the foundation of any MMO. That is what I think Bioware has been good at...story telling. How can it translate to an MMO? Guild Wars told a decent story, why couldn't it be done in other MMO's?
My personal opinion is this: You can easily tell a great and very personal story through instances...and have a large and persistent world full of lore to back this up. (which incidentally is how I think they will do their MMO)
Heres hoping for orcs in battlecruisers. Lets all pray to mighty vader they do not make a star wars game.
You keep saying you think everything will be in game at launch? Have they even announced which game they are making? Or are u living in fuucking cooko land, like most people on this site.
Well sir, the only people that haven't accepted the fact that Bioware is making a Star Wars MMO are the seriously mentally challenged or SOE employees. Whoops, I guess those are kinda the same thing. Everybody knows it man, just accept it. The only reason we haven't seen an official announcment yet is probably due to lucasarts contractual agreement with SOE.
Anyway the list is things we will see at launch because Bioware is actually a good developer of games. Unlike your SOE who seems to take a dump on every IP they get their greedy little hands on. Want to go down the list................................here we go
1. SWG
2. Matrix Online
3. Pirates of the Burning Sea
4. Vanguard
5. Star Trek Online( yeah I know it's years till release but now thats SOE is involved we all know it's gonna blow)
6. Everquest 2.................even though Everquest 2 is the most succesfull MMO in SOE's stable it's still shit. God could you imagine what Bioware would have done with Everquest 2, now that would have been a worthy sequel.
Thats pretty much all I got, 6 games that should have at least 500k subs a piece but are instead circling the drain. Now I want you to go into Smedely's office and tell him you just got pwnt and do not want to come into forums you don't belong in anymore. Damn SOE employee's
Hmm lets see
Matrix Online - Developed by Warner Bros & Sega
Pirates of the Burning Sea - Developed by Flying Labs Software
Vanguard - Developed by Sigil
It seems the only two you listed that were developed by SOE were Star Wars and Everquest II which is pretty successful, no matter what you think.
Why don't you take out your pent up hatred on your spouse or something instead of trolling these forums about things you don't know about.
Matrix has been developed by SOE for a few years now and it's still a bigger turd than when it launched.
Vanguard is a wholly SOE property now, developed and published by SOE.
I'm sorry but that is solely your opinion (which you seem to spew out as fact at will). The fact is they did not develop the Matrix Online or Vanguard and the only MMORPG that is solely their creation actually sells pretty well.
SOE's only real failure was Star Wars NGE and since then people like you try to amplify every mistake they make. Stop being so dramatic, it's getting old.
no the fact that warner brothers sold the rights to the matrix online to SOE and that SOE has been developing the game for along time now is fact. Also SOE buying Sygil and aquiring and continuing to develop for vanguard is fact. I will give you pirates of the burning sea though.....that game was shit long before sony got their hands on it. Now go post in the fanbois forum where you belong.
Bioware is known for making RPG's. Just thought I would make a list of things that we are going to see at launch that SOE couldn't figure out till well into SWG's lifespan if at all. 1. Space battles- Star Wars and epic space battles go hand and hand. I wouldn't be shocked if we got personal ships, capitol ships, and a better space combat system than that JTL shit at launch. Have you played the KOTOR games? Ship combat was extremely simplistic. Don't look for depth here and certainly not an overly twitch based system. As to wether it will be better that will be a matter of opinion. Yep, played em both, and I wasn't really saying that the space combat in KOTOR should be a basis for the MMO, just that Bioware will probably have a much better system the whats currently in SWG. which in my opinion sucks ass. Don't start off your reply's with have have you ever even played (insert game name) it just makes you sound like a butthole.
2. A true Master/Padawan system, it's cannon it can't be ignored. This would be a great community feature and really immerse players into the game together. Padawan will likely simply be a level based title. Not likely that any company will restrict a player by permanently linking them to another player. Why would they have to restrict 1 player to the role of Padawan, after the player completes certain tasks he could move up to knight and take his own Padawan. Leaving the Master to take on a new Padawan. It would be an awesome community feature and not restrictive at all. While in their partnership both players could recieve various buffs and attribute bonuses from this.
3. A combat system that works, SOE still hasn't figured this one out. Something tells me that Bioware will get it right though. It will be turn based, and it will be deep. I mean cmon it's Bioware for christ sakes. If they truly going to keep to the KOTOR legacy then the combat system is already in place and is based on the DnD core rules. I'm sure this is probably true, as I'm also sure that this combat system has been improved upon and will continue to improved upon in the future. Whatever direction Bioware does take it's combat system, It's got to be better than SWG's. They haven't even managed to fix targeting yet.
4. Players will actually effect the story of the game. KOTOR is pretty uncharted territory in the Star Wars universe leaving Bioware to weave a tale that everyone of us will be able to effect in one way or the other. Bioware will not be shackled by the cannon of the movies so it's gonna be a free for all:) This is not a matter of KOTOR or SW canon, but more a technological and pratcicality issue with how do you allow several thousand people on one shard to change the world. Bioware has hinted the game will be ground breaking so maybe it might make it into the game perhaps in a Sith vs. Jedi control of the universe. Ok
5. Now this one is a possibility but I'm not certain of it because few developers have the balls to do it. There is hope though considering alot of Pre-CU devs are working with Bioware Austin now. Skill based leveling. I think were going to see skill trees like we did in Pre-CU SWG and were going to be able to mix and match our templates again. The only reason this did not work in Pre-CU SWG is because SOE devs do not know how to code, balance, or test for a shit. Not likely. See my explanation of the combat system. The game rules are likely already set and will use an expanded version of what was already in the KOTOR games and will be level based with a skill point system. We'll just have to see.
6. A true Jedi vs. Sith faction system........nuff said. Actually not e-nuff said. Not sure what you mean here but perhaps it could entail control of the universe. Pretty much what I was getting at which you discussed in no. 4
Well thats all I can think of at the moment. I think the list above is definatly going to be in the game at launch. I mean cmon, it's not like SOE is developing the game or anything Post some of your ideas!!!!!!
Bioware is known for making RPG's. Just thought I would make a list of things that we are going to see at launch that SOE couldn't figure out till well into SWG's lifespan if at all. 1. Space battles- Star Wars and epic space battles go hand and hand. I wouldn't be shocked if we got personal ships, capitol ships, and a better space combat system than that JTL shit at launch. Have you played the KOTOR games? Ship combat was extremely simplistic. Don't look for depth here and certainly not an overly twitch based system. As to wether it will be better that will be a matter of opinion. Yep, played em both, and I wasn't really saying that the space combat in KOTOR should be a basis for the MMO, just that Bioware will probably have a much better system the whats currently in SWG. which in my opinion sucks ass. Don't start off your reply's with have have you ever even played (insert game name) it just makes you sound like a butthole.
I don't believe I was being a butthole but was asking a legitimate question. IMO it is most likely that a KOTORO will be a reflection of the KOTOR games therefore I wouldn't expect a deep space combat game. I do hope it's better than SWG which is too simulator like for me. I see we do aggree on some other points however. I really am a fan of the KOTOR and look forward to KOTORO, but I also worry that fan's expectations may be a bit high. Almost every MMO launched in the last 5 years has been heralded as a ground breaking title by the developers when in truth they were simply more of the same. I truly hope that Bioware makes a groundbreaking MMO, but I would settle for a fun game that keeps me playing and is set in the KOTOR universe.
Bioware is known for making RPG's. Just thought I would make a list of things that we are going to see at launch that SOE couldn't figure out till well into SWG's lifespan if at all. 1. Space battles- Star Wars and epic space battles go hand and hand. I wouldn't be shocked if we got personal ships, capitol ships, and a better space combat system than that JTL shit at launch. heh its the best space combat of ANY MMO on the market and its near the top 10 of space combat games too. 2. A true Master/Padawan system, it's cannon it can't be ignored. This would be a great community feature and really immerse players into the game together. it will be interesting to see how anyone handles the Jedi system. dunno about the master/padawan thing 3. A combat system that works, SOE still hasn't figured this one out. Something tells me that Bioware will get it right though. It will be turn based, and it will be deep. I mean cmon it's Bioware for christ sakes. not sure what you mean by turn based....would not work in an MMO of any kind if its the turn based i am thinking of 4. Players will actually effect the story of the game. KOTOR is pretty uncharted territory in the Star Wars universe leaving Bioware to weave a tale that everyone of us will be able to effect in one way or the other. Bioware will not be shackled by the cannon of the movies so it's gonna be a free for all:) this can be done, LOTRO and Guild wars do it to a certain point and i think its a great idea. the old SWG had it in the form of player respect (i doubt many would taunt a master bounter hunter they have seen gun down Jedi in the street) 5. Now this one is a possibility but I'm not certain of it because few developers have the balls to do it. There is hope though considering alot of Pre-CU devs are working with Bioware Austin now. Skill based leveling. I think were going to see skill trees like we did in Pre-CU SWG and were going to be able to mix and match our templates again. The only reason this did not work in Pre-CU SWG is because SOE devs do not know how to code, balance, or test for a shit. oh god please be a skill based MMO. there NEEDS to be more of them 6. A true Jedi vs. Sith faction system........nuff said. i cannot believe they never put that in to pre NGE or post...its a staple part of the Star wars universe Well thats all I can think of at the moment. I think the list above is definatly going to be in the game at launch. I mean cmon, it's not like SOE is developing the game or anything Post some of your ideas!!!!!!
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
"If" in fact we are lucky enough to get a Star Wars MMO from Bioware make note that it will never reflect what SOE's gameplay did with swg. The only thing I think they should have are player apartments or houses. And the first thing they will do right is dual weapons.
SOE is very out of touch with Star Wars and its fan base-
How can it translate to an MMO? Guild Wars told a decent story, why couldn't it be done in other MMO's?
And herein lies the game's biggest challenge. I firmly believe that the more story-driven content you put in an MMO, the more persistent-world attributes need to be taken out to compensate. You provide an excellent example of this in mentioning Guild Wars.
Guild Wars has a much more involving story than most MMOs, but it is also consistently argued whether GW can actually be called an MMO due to the overabundance of instancing the game uses.
I feel BioWare's game will be similar. Heavy on story, but also heavy on instancing to the point that countless flamewars will ensue regarding it's validity as an MMO. However, it's pretty much the only way to do it.
I don't believe I was being a butthole but was asking a legitimate question. IMO it is most likely that a KOTORO will be a reflection of the KOTOR games therefore I wouldn't expect a deep space combat game. I do hope it's better than SWG which is too simulator like for me. I see we do aggree on some other points however. I really am a fan of the KOTOR and look forward to KOTORO, but I also worry that fan's expectations may be a bit high. Almost every MMO launched in the last 5 years has been heralded as a ground breaking title by the developers when in truth they were simply more of the same. I truly hope that Bioware makes a groundbreaking MMO, but I would settle for a fun game that keeps me playing and is set in the KOTOR universe.
Walton condemned current MMO developers at this years Game Developers Conference in Austin. He basically said too many companies were claiming innovation when in fact all they had done was a slight modification to an existing system.
The guys at BioWare Austin talk very good, we'll see if they deliver on what they say though.
Comments
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
I'll except that, although you are starting to sound a little bit like a blizzard employee
NW1 and 2 are not the issue though. The point is that a Star Wars game with Bioware on the box is going to be a major draw, ala Madden, Halo 3, Starcraft, etc......and I'd just like to say that while WoW is a very well done game it's set MMO's back by 5 to 10 years because it's gotten so big. Everyone is trying to make the next WoW money machine instead of just making an innovative product. I don't bieleve Bioware will fall into that trap though.........hopefully. Starcraft 2 does look like it's going to be a mind blowing game though and I look forward to the hours of my life I will lose playing.
I would also argue the "You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft)"
If your just talking PC games, ok. Multi-platform though the statement doesn't hold up that well.
/agree....they haven't annouched what game it is going to be or even when it COULD be released.....this guy must be the head designer or some thing
It's actually an Indiana Jones MMO; the teaser is going to be shown at the opening of the 4th movie....
Personal opinions.
Best selling computer ever is The Sims, ironically enough, worst selling MMO ever? The Sims Online.
There are no given trends in the industry, but Walton and the other Austin devs are following Blizzards lead, Quality over Quantity, and trying to bring their single player experience to an MMO. They admit they won't beat WoW, but they also admit they aren't trying to, they just want to compete on a decent level.
Whatever they make will do better than Lotro, but nowhere near as good as WoW, because BioWare doesn't have the global fanbase that Blizzard has. However, Star Wars does, so there is a slim chance that it can appeal to enough people to make them do better than anyone else is.
We'll see, it's still unknown whether it's Star Wars MMO or not. But, I'm quite looking forward to their MMO either way, their approach sounds fun.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
I'll except that, although you are starting to sound a little bit like a blizzard employee
NW1 and 2 are not the issue though. The point is that a Star Wars game with Bioware on the box is going to be a major draw, ala Madden, Halo 3, Starcraft, etc......and I'd just like to say that while WoW is a very well done game it's set MMO's back by 5 to 10 years because it's gotten so big. Everyone is trying to make the next WoW money machine instead of just making an innovative product. I don't bieleve Bioware will fall into that trap though.........hopefully. Starcraft 2 does look like it's going to be a mind blowing game though and I look forward to the hours of my life I will lose playing.
I would also argue the "You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft)"
If your just talking PC games, ok. Multi-platform though the statement doesn't hold up that well.
Haha. I think i sounded as a Blizzard employee indeed. I am not one though, and I hate the turn Blizzard took after beeing aqcuired by Vivendi and released WoW. But still those three games are the reason for WoW's success and not WoW itself. And yes I am talking about pc only. I never was a fan of consoles and i dont think that a proper mmoRPG for consoles is feasible, due to the nature of the games (and the consoles). You need a keyboard and a mouse.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
I'm not comparing anything...you are. If you want to compare numbers there are a multitude of games that you can do this with. Is it right though? Tally up how many copies of any warcraft game to date have been sold(exclude wow of course). And compare it to numbers sold of the bioware lineup. The fact that people still play means nothing in this. Those are enthusiasts who will buy these games till they aren't published anymore. I think you find that they can be compared pretty evenly.
If you do want to compare between competitive games then try comparing Warcraft to any other popular game out there that is still being played. How about EA's battlefield series, or counterstrike, or halo, or madden (who are all still being played pretty competitively which actually means nothing)? Blizzard made RTS; Bioware makes RPG'S. It's all apple and oranges.
So, when you take the standpoint of even throwing these two companies into a throw down (which is what you have done when you say "which doesn't compare to Blizzard's numbers"), you have to realize that these are really two different types of companies focused on very different things and that they both have huge fan bases.
My example could be something like...ooh, alot of folks still love and play Battelfield 2 (it's still top 5 games played on the old x-fire regularly which may be some sort of indication). Now what if they chose to add some lore and make it a MMOFPS? Would you then compare what blizzard has done pre-WoW to what EA has done or even EA has done with the Battelfield series?
Top 25 pc games of all time
25) IL-2 Sturmovik
Developer: 1C Company
Publisher: Ubisoft
Year Released: 2001
24) Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Developer: Red Storm Entertainment
Publisher:Red Storm Entertainment
Year Released: 1998
23) Unreal Tournament 2004
Developer: Epic Games/Digital Extremes
Publisher: Atari
Year Released: 2004
22) The Sims
Developer: Maxis
Publisher: Electronic Arts
Year Released: 2000
21) MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat
Developer: Activision
Publisher: Activision
Year Released: 1995
20) Deus Ex
Developer: Ion Storm
Publisher: Eidos Interactive
Year Released: 2000
19) Warcraft 2: The Tides of Darkness
Developer: Blizzard Entertainment
Publisher: Blizzard Entertainment
Year Released: 1995
18) Call of Duty
Developer: Infinity Ward
Publisher: Activision
Year Released: 2003
17) World of Warcraft
Developer: Blizzard Entertainment
Publisher: Blizzard Entertainment
Year Released: 2004
16) Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Developer: Bethesda Softworks
Publisher: 2K Games
Year Released: 2006
15) Grim Fandango
Developer: LucasArts
Publisher: LucasArts
Year Released: 1998
14) Company of Heroes
Developer: Relic Studios
Publisher: THQ
Year Released: 2006
13) System Shock 2
Developer: Looking Glass/Irrational Games
Publisher: Electronic Arts
Year Released: 1999
12) Battlefield 1942
Developer: Digital Illusions CE
Publisher: Electronic Arts
Year Released: 2002
11) Sid Meier's Pirates!
Developer: Microprose
Publisher: Microprose
Year Released: 1987
10) Age of Empires 2: Age of Kings
Developer: Ensemble Studios
Publisher: Microsoft
Year Released: 1999
9) Half-Life 2
Developer: Valve Software
Publisher: Vivendi Games
Year Released: 2004
8) SimCity 2000
Developer:
Publisher:
Year Released: 1993
7) Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Developer: BioWare
Publisher: Interplay/Black Isle Studios
Year Released: 2000
6) StarCraft
Developer: Blizzard
Publisher: Blizzard
Year Released: 1998
5) Fallout
Developer: Interplay
Publisher: Interplay
Year Released: 1997
4) Rome: Total War
Developer: Creative Assembly
Publisher: Activision
Year Released: 2004
3) Star Wars TIE Fighter
Developer: LucasArts
Publisher: LucasArts
Year Released: 1994
2) Civilization IV
Developer: Firaxis
Publisher: 2K Games
Year Released: 2005
1) X-COM: UFO Defense
Developer: Mythos Games
Publisher: Microprose
Year Released: 1994
This list was posted by IGN here is a link if you want to read about what criteria they used.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/772/772285p1.html
Notice that LA, Bioware, and Blizzard all have a spot in the top 10 so you really can't say that LA and Bioware haven't made a name for themselves in PC gaming that can stand alogside blizzard. It all comes down to personal preference though. If I had my choice Tie-fighter would have been number 1 followed by half life 2
Just a side note Hux...while I won't be playing an MMO on a console, Keyboards and mice:
1. can be used on some consoles going back to Dreamcast.
2. don't need to be used a la Final Fantasy.
I even remember back in 99 hooking my dreamcast up to my monitor.
II bet all you people who think they know whats going to happen.... ARE going to be really pissed when it comes out.... all your trying to do is turn what ever it is there making in to SWG pre -cu ... not going to happen sorry Bio is going to do there own thing just like they always do
Yea, kinda pointless arguing about single player games.. I hate all of Blizzard's games except Diablo 1 and WoW, and even those are boring after the first time through.
You are comparing the best products in the history of video games (diablo, starcraft, warcraft) with what? nwn and kotor? I agree that both were nice games, but nowhere near the masterpieces of blizzard. Thousands of ppl are still playing sc on battlenet and also play warcraft (dotta) and starcraft competively. And competitions are where the ppl and the moniez are. You just cant compare this to Bioware, no matter how respectable company it is (was).
as for nwn2, you are right. I dont have any numbers. but i played online nwn for years. i didnt like nwn2. my friends and the player and worldbuilder communities i participated in have the same opinion. we might be wrong though. maybe nwn2 shifted its audience to a different crowd. what i am sure about, is that it is not very popular amongst the nwn1 fans.
lol your funny.. Bio were is an awsome company whos games rock.. Bliz yea there a good company but SC sucked IMO ( READ THAT EVERY SC FAN I SAID IN MY OPINION ) SC well be same thing better Graphics, warcraft ( Never been a fan).. so to me the only really good game Blizz has made was Diablo and they let that one die to bad
Man yall act like bioware had no control when EA bought them. Im sure almost everything was in Biowares favor that if the mmo is LA publsihed and Bioware developed then really EA doesnt have that much control. And dont say it will be EA published immposible if it is SW then LA wouldnt let that happen.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Ive said this before and ill say it again. How can you be sure its even going to be kotor, and not just a completely new star wars universe. The fact of the matter is you can't. First kotor would be hard to turn into a mmo, but if they did this the game play would be allot different from the single player games. I'm almost 60% sure that its not going to be kotor but a completely new star wars mmo.
I totally agree here. I just can't see LA and EA splitting the profits on this one. These two companies seem to me to be very aggressive in that manner. **blanket statement** EA doesn't play well with others...til they buy them and I don't think LA is selling.
When would you set it?
Kotor era is great imo, total freedom, lots of jedi, whether it relates to the single player games or not doesn't matter, it's 4000 years between Reven and Palpatine, plenty of time to set it in.
Clone wars & Galactic civil war are both pretty restrictive, and more combat orientated than roleplaying orientated.
Post-GCW was much happening for normal people, lots for the heroes but we won't play as heroes.
NJO was bad, the Vong are awful and the whole story has already been told in great detail.
Legacy, fairly unknown, but anything riding on the back of NJO is going to suck cause it's building on something that already sucks.
If it were KotoR, I think we all know that it won't be played like the single player. I will speak for myself and not others...what appealed to me most about KotoR wasn't the gameplay or game mechanics. It was the age, the period, the story. That is what I think is or should be the foundation of any MMO. That is what I think Bioware has been good at...story telling. How can it translate to an MMO? Guild Wars told a decent story, why couldn't it be done in other MMO's?
My personal opinion is this: You can easily tell a great and very personal story through instances...and have a large and persistent world full of lore to back this up. (which incidentally is how I think they will do their MMO)
Anyway the list is things we will see at launch because Bioware is actually a good developer of games. Unlike your SOE who seems to take a dump on every IP they get their greedy little hands on. Want to go down the list................................here we go
1. SWG
2. Matrix Online
3. Pirates of the Burning Sea
4. Vanguard
5. Star Trek Online( yeah I know it's years till release but now thats SOE is involved we all know it's gonna blow)
6. Everquest 2.................even though Everquest 2 is the most succesfull MMO in SOE's stable it's still shit. God could you imagine what Bioware would have done with Everquest 2, now that would have been a worthy sequel.
Thats pretty much all I got, 6 games that should have at least 500k subs a piece but are instead circling the drain. Now I want you to go into Smedely's office and tell him you just got pwnt and do not want to come into forums you don't belong in anymore. Damn SOE employee's
Hmm lets see
Matrix Online - Developed by Warner Bros & Sega
Pirates of the Burning Sea - Developed by Flying Labs Software
Vanguard - Developed by Sigil
It seems the only two you listed that were developed by SOE were Star Wars and Everquest II which is pretty successful, no matter what you think.
Why don't you take out your pent up hatred on your spouse or something instead of trolling these forums about things you don't know about.
Oh and here is some more food for thought.......http://www.gamespot.com/news/6127635.html
Matrix has been developed by SOE for a few years now and it's still a bigger turd than when it launched.
Vanguard is a wholly SOE property now, developed and published by SOE.
I'm sorry but that is solely your opinion (which you seem to spew out as fact at will). The fact is they did not develop the Matrix Online or Vanguard and the only MMORPG that is solely their creation actually sells pretty well.
SOE's only real failure was Star Wars NGE and since then people like you try to amplify every mistake they make. Stop being so dramatic, it's getting old.
no the fact that warner brothers sold the rights to the matrix online to SOE and that SOE has been developing the game for along time now is fact. Also SOE buying Sygil and aquiring and continuing to develop for vanguard is fact. I will give you pirates of the burning sea though.....that game was shit long before sony got their hands on it. Now go post in the fanbois forum where you belong.
I don't believe I was being a butthole but was asking a legitimate question. IMO it is most likely that a KOTORO will be a reflection of the KOTOR games therefore I wouldn't expect a deep space combat game. I do hope it's better than SWG which is too simulator like for me. I see we do aggree on some other points however. I really am a fan of the KOTOR and look forward to KOTORO, but I also worry that fan's expectations may be a bit high. Almost every MMO launched in the last 5 years has been heralded as a ground breaking title by the developers when in truth they were simply more of the same. I truly hope that Bioware makes a groundbreaking MMO, but I would settle for a fun game that keeps me playing and is set in the KOTOR universe.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
"If" in fact we are lucky enough to get a Star Wars MMO from Bioware make note that it will never reflect what SOE's gameplay did with swg. The only thing I think they should have are player apartments or houses. And the first thing they will do right is dual weapons.
SOE is very out of touch with Star Wars and its fan base-
And herein lies the game's biggest challenge. I firmly believe that the more story-driven content you put in an MMO, the more persistent-world attributes need to be taken out to compensate. You provide an excellent example of this in mentioning Guild Wars.
Guild Wars has a much more involving story than most MMOs, but it is also consistently argued whether GW can actually be called an MMO due to the overabundance of instancing the game uses.
I feel BioWare's game will be similar. Heavy on story, but also heavy on instancing to the point that countless flamewars will ensue regarding it's validity as an MMO. However, it's pretty much the only way to do it.
The guys at BioWare Austin talk very good, we'll see if they deliver on what they say though.