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Are " dynamic " Control Points also instanced / is TR fake ? (YES)
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If its by design then I retract my former flames and agree its a good deal.
I think we have to wait and see about this, as I don;t think anyone knows yet what the higher level zones will do (instancing-wise) once they are highly populated. The game is only officially 3 days old.
As far as beta goes, is there anyone here that can comment on the higher level zones being "uninstanced" by design or by low pops?
Originally posted by Jenuviel
The one danger I see is that, as the playerbase eventually matures into the top levels, the high-end game will become saturated and there won't be any way to avoid opening multiple instances of those top tier maps. If that's the case, then the concerns are well-founded.
Yes , those are my concerns and i think they make sense. I read somewhere that outdoor maps are limited to a certain nr. of people ( 300 ). So i assume that once everyone has max lvls that the high lvl outdoor maps will have various copies (instances) of themselves.
Originally posted by Jenuviel
That said, I think it only becomes a serious problem if you let it. If you're the type of player who'd switch instances just because it's easier, well...that's on you.
I tend to pick a map instance when I log in and stay there until I log out. I don't hop around based on who's in control of what. If it becomes a serious problem as things advance, though, I don't see why they couldn't just add in a "cooldown" timer for instance hopping.
Yes. In my first post i wrote about instance switching to get to quest npcs for example or bypass problems in general. I would actually never do it if i would play tabula rasa. I played my first on a C64 when it was uptodate and i think i have not cheated one time until today
But to me personally, virtual worlds are all about immersion and such a heavy instancing breaks it for me. So yes for me its really Outdoor World instancing = fake. This is just my definition and i can understand if someone does not.
I dont have a problem with instancing of dungeons or missions tho, which TR also has. Just the " Mainworld " has to be no -instanced to me. This is of course just my personal point of view and the way i personally " feel games ".
@ Mithrandol i accept your apolgy (how could i not, looking at your avatar
Thanks, accepted as well
I hear ya there! It's a jungle in here for sure
There's so much mixed emotion right now about TR. You've got folks who love it passionately and folks who hate it passionately and very little inbetween it seems. Hopefully NC issues a trial soon and folks can find out for themselves and avoid all of us rabid fanbois and vicious haters
I have a pretty long post on the first page here with my experiences written out about the game so far. It's a little biased since I am truly having more fun than in any other mmorpg out there, and I have played them all minus WWIIO. But there are some things I don't like as well about TR and they are in there too.
I'm not as much of a fanboi as they make me out to be, I just find myself going extreme on the people who love to trash us as a playerbase and not the game itself, especially when they aren't playing it. (note : this doesn't go for those who don't like the game and express that without lying and attacking the people enjoying the game).
Anyway, cheers! Hopefully you get a chance to try it someday
I think you'll find the instancing a non-issue for the most part, but that's just me 
/salute
Well, that's exactly what I meant, so run with that.
The points are not instances per say, at least not in the common understanding of what that means.
Wach server has few instances, but once you are in it the points are not, it not liek you see a loading screen anywhere but the "instances".
does that make sence ?
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
If your instance has the control point controlled by the bane, and you switch to another instance:
If you switch instances, the mission to take back the control point doens't complete, you have to go back and actually take the CP from the bane.
If you switch instances, you get no attack tokens for fighting bane at the control point, you have to go back to the instance where they have the CP and kill the bane at the CP.
If you switch instances, you do not get the satisfaction of taking the CP or the fun of doing it.
At any given point different people have different needs at a CP - some people need to take it, some people need to defend it, some people need to hand in (non-CP) related missions to NPCs.
The instancing system works this beautifully. If you need to defend, you can join all the people defending in an instance. If you need to attack, you can go join all the people attacking in another instance.
Of course all CPs start off controlled by the Bane (AFAIK), so if you simply go to an empty instance, it's not going to have an open CP, you are going to have to take it. This is no way takes away from the immersion. At any given point there are other people effecting the world. It works perfectly. The system for switching instances is the same as for teleporting inside the zone - any time you step on a teleporter to go somehwere, you have a choice of destinations within your instance and within others, so you don't have to do anything special to go elsewhere. If you are traveling to a CP, the travel process is the same for your isntance and another.
You have your opinion of what breaks immersion for you and that's fine. You are being told by those that play the game that it doesn't break immersion. But honestly, you would need to try it to know.
We would all love to have a game that has one massive shared world, but technology simply isn't there, nor is it entirely viable (imagine if 8 million WOW players all decided to visit same city...). The only game that tried (DnL) failed miserably. Everything else has some manner of instancing.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
In TR there is several same regions, per example Wilderness has 10, but they arent instances they are mini-servers that you can switch when the others are full. The World remains dynamic!
offtopic: I wish the Instances like Caves of Donn, etc... have had an outpost to form a party.
So wait....
"dynamic" control points being instanced is a horrible immersion breaker..
BUT
Raiding to kill some "epic named boss" repeatedly and after yet another 100 groups have done so is perfectly fine?
Neither are more right or wrong than another.
Sure, i will wait for you.
To me it is a difference if a whole world is instanced or just some side dungeons, it should'nt be so hard to figure that one out. Instancin allways breaks immersion to some degree but degrees can vary and the degree of a game that instances the whole world is the highest that can be.
Whats the point to take Cp's and change THE world if there is not THE world but t TONS of them that you can change/ switch to with ease ?
And allthough you can call servers also instances it makes a huge difference and i will tell you why : Because the population is bound to the server like us humans to earth. Thats is much more real than tabula rasas instancing, where people can switch instances aka worlds.
If for example in AO the clans take all omni bases in an area, its visible to all habitants of that world ( server ) and on the website map.
Thats just much more immersive than if it was possible to switch the world with a few mouseclicks.
And most mmos do not instance the " outside world " just dungeons afaik.
Darkfall and Warhammer will also not instance the outside world which will be much more immersive because if the world is changed, it is changed to everyone ultimately ( to the fixed population of the server) and they can't escape that (virtual) reality with just a few mouseclicks by switching to another copy of the world.
Well to take your WoW example:
imagine every big area as an "instance" so duskwood would be an instance and
elwyn forest would be an instance
now stormwind wouldnt be an instance by itself -it is part of the "elwyn forest" instance
so you see what you call instances" are really big areas in TR
furthermore everytime you get to a border you can select in which instance you will
go so you can play with your friends
-now to the good part of this system
where you have in wow 10servers you got in tr 10instances so you
can play together with a lot more people
and if the are is overcrowded there will be simply more open instances and that means
less lag for you
-now decide for yourself if you like it or not
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Sure, i will wait for you.
To me it is a difference if a whole world is instanced or just some side dungeons, it should'nt be so hard to figure that one out. Instancin allways breaks immersion to some degree but degrees can vary and the degree of a game that instances the whole world is the highest that can be.
Whats the point to take Cp's and change THE world if there is not THE world but t TONS of them that you can change/ switch to with ease ?
And allthough you can call servers also instances it makes a huge difference and i will tell you why : Because the population is bound to the server like us humans to earth. Thats is much more real than tabula rasas instancing, where people can switch instances aka worlds.
If for example in AO the clans take all omni bases in an area, its visible to all habitants of that world ( server ) and on the website map.
Thats just much more immersive than if it was possible to switch the world with a few mouseclicks.
And most mmos do not instance the " outside world " just dungeons afaik.
Darkfall and Warhammer will also not instance the outside world which will be much more immersive because if the world is changed, it is changed to everyone ultimately ( to the fixed population of the server) and they can't escape that (virtual) reality with just a few mouseclicks by switching to another copy of the world.
When you take the control point called Landing Zone in Wilderness3 (or LZ3 as it's referred to in-game), that control point is now taken for the entire world. Anyone that comes to LZ3 will see that waypoint as taken. So basically the difference is not that it has no effect on teh world but that there are 3 of them that ALL have an effect on the world. So if you want the world to be bane-free, you have to take 3 different control points - LZ1, LZ2 and LZ3.
Think of it this way. If the same zone had these 3 identical Control Points standing next to each other, it wouldn't bother you that you can just go into the 2nd one if the 1st one is bane controlled. The way TR sets it up, is exactly the same only with instances.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Sure, i will wait for you.
To me it is a difference if a whole world is instanced or just some side dungeons, it should'nt be so hard to figure that one out. Instancin allways breaks immersion to some degree but degrees can vary and the degree of a game that instances the whole world is the highest that can be.
Whats the point to take Cp's and change THE world if there is not THE world but t TONS of them that you can change/ switch to with ease ?
And allthough you can call servers also instances it makes a huge difference and i will tell you why : Because the population is bound to the server like us humans to earth. Thats is much more real than tabula rasas instancing, where people can switch instances aka worlds.
If for example in AO the clans take all omni bases in an area, its visible to all habitants of that world ( server ) and on the website map.
Thats just much more immersive than if it was possible to switch the world with a few mouseclicks.
And most mmos do not instance the " outside world " just dungeons afaik.
Darkfall and Warhammer will also not instance the outside world which will be much more immersive because if the world is changed, it is changed to everyone ultimately ( to the fixed population of the server) and they can't escape that (virtual) reality with just a few mouseclicks by switching to another copy of the world.
I do agree with you on much of your thoughts. I see a big "realism" factor to a single world per server, however, having played TR quite a bit over the past 3 months, I am not sure how this could be accomplished. Anyone who has played it will tell you that TR easily has more mobs per zone than any other MMORPG in existance. I mean, it's not uncommon at all (in fact it's quite common) to have hundreds and hundreds of Bane just being dropped in, non-stop, within a 50 foot radius! Keep in mind this is happening all of the entire zone, especially with the high populations per zone right now.
I don't know how they'd accomplish that without instancing. Nobody else has done it so I don't think it's possible. Last night, around 11pm on Pegasus server, the first 3 instanced of the Wilderness zone were reading "high" population. Each instance can hold 300 players. So there were almost 900 players in the first three instances alone! Not to mention the amount of mobs that pour in on top of them every few seconds!
I guess the only way around it would be to shut down the instances and open more servers. I'd rather have the instances personally, but I can fully understand that you wouldn't agree with it.
EvE pulls off some crazy stuff like 35k logged in at one time. That's some pretty amazing stuff on a single world server farm. Maybe some current mmorpg developers should look to CCP for some server infrastructure advice. Although, as much as I've played EvE, I have never seen 900 or even 300 people in one area all fighting hundreds and thousands of mobs.
But in TR, for me, people hopping instances in the lower level zones is no different than people hopping to alts on other servers in other games... i mean, if I was playing ShadowBane and someone was holding a control point, I could easily hop to my alt on another server and have a whole different scenerio going on at that spot. The only difference to me is the fact that I'd have to log out and back in, an extra minute at best.
But in an ideal world, we'd have what you propose, but this industry is still an infant, 11 years old and learning more every day.
/salute
Hi,
there is no doubt that instancing has alot of good aspects. Some people value those aspects higher than the negatives.
I personally want to play in a virtual world with a fixed population which is bound to a server and that can not escape the game world changes so easily.
You can get defence and Assault tokens that give you nice goodies. So control point are not meaningless. Most of the time I want the base to be capture by the bane because I need those assault tokens
Hm , this reminds me of WoW Instance Raiding
Hm , this reminds me of WoW Instance Raiding
Thankfully it's nothing like WoW raiding, not even remotely.
The problem is your argument is flawed. I pointed it out earlier in my post but I think you missed the meaning. Seperate instances with differing results is no less immersion breaking than killing an epic named mob for the 30th time after watching numerous other groups defeat them. The problem is one of these games don't have to cater to everyone. One thing this game does offer is flexibility to those with less free time to dedicate to gaming. Even a faster way into action. Arguing over the use of instancing is like stating the Mona Lisa is a piece of shit because you don't personally like the color scheme. These kind of arguments are like those that came up months before about LOTRO and how shitty its PvP was.
whether the instance is dungeon or world the outcome is your actions seem pretty pointless since they had no real bearing effects on the world.