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A lot of people in my opinion have an incorrect view of the way this game is supposed to work.
Cabe2323
Member Posts: 2,939
IT seems like a lot of people are complaining that the game doesn't play like a traditional MMO. Where people need to work together in rigid class specific functions. Instead the game has a lot of everyone just killing stuff while grouped together.
Honestly what were people expecting? Did these people who are complaining never play Diablo 1 or 2? Thta was exactly what Diablo 1 and 2 were like. You had a group of friends all fighting mobs pretty much individually while completing levels. The mobs went down so quickly yet came fast so each person was constantly clearing out bad guys on their own.
There was no tank and spank in that game. There was no constant one class healing or using crowd control while another class did the damage. That isn't the way Action RPGs are played. So why do people seem to come into this game with unrealistic ideas about how the game should work?
MMO doesn't mean that you have to play rigid class roles and work as a team. Asheron's call 1 (which imo is one of the best MMOs ever made) allowed constant soloing of almost all of the content. When you grouped up it was to kill mobs more quickly not because you had to have certain classes.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
100% agreement with you
D1 & D2 didn't cost $10.00/month.
This game is a disaster. It's Vanguard all over again.
This is not a game that follows the modern definition of a MMO. I think HG:L is exactly what it was meant to be and I have enjoyed it so far. Killing, looting and killing some more. Large groups can be fun when you see the massive waves of demons coming at you from every direction
Diablo/Diablo 2 weren't mmorpgs, either. You cleared that up nicely.
What a shame it isn't still 1997.
Gamers have progressed.
I agree that the multiplayer (assuming it is ever debugged) is the same as it was in Diablo.
The thing is, the player isn't. We have all moved on.
Non team based multiplayer games no longer hold our attention, any more than Pong still did over Diablo in 1997. No one plays Deathmatch anymore either. It bores them. The level of sophistication in multyiplayer games has grown with it's customer base.
It's not that Hellgate's multiplayer, isn't like Diablo, it's that it is. It still is. A decade on.
Which is fine. But don't be suprised if people prefer to play those thousands of other games out there that have more to offer. That have progressed. Where the players do actually interact with eachother other than in a chatbox.
Hellgate's multiplayer isn't exciting.
And while we are at it, it isn't even as exciting as Diablo's. At least in Diablo the map was so big that when your group all went off their own solo rampages, the screen didn't end in 30 seconds time.
It's ok that Hellgates MP is poor, because ten years ago all games had MP that poor. Now I've heard it all.
This isn't the only game Ex Diablo dev's made.
Sorry but World of Warcraft and Guild Wars are the true sequels to Diablo. Not this.
You assume everyone doesn't enjoy multiplayer like this, yet all we hear are complaints about team based rigid role specific MMOs. People are tired of them. Everything comes back in a cycle and it is time for another Diablo style game. One that is based on just fun!
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
A fun game will garner positive reviews regardless of what genre it comes from (unless the reviewer is biased to one genre or another). That is, in my opinion.
As an FPS, HGL is hurting more than it would be hurting as an MMORPG. After playing the Crysis demo, HGL does not seem fun. Review HGL as an MMORPG, where it stands the best chance.
Perhaps it fits into it's own genre? I don't know. Ultimately, we end up discussing the philosophy of reviewing and this thread gets nowhere towards it's intended answer :P.
I actually think the OP is a rather insightful person, who is enjoying the innovative aspects of HGL.
He enjoys it, I do not - we debate our different views through the forum. There is no need to insult the intelligence of someone who takes a different view.
Very well said. *clap clap*
what a load of crap...
A good game design is a good game design. Period.
Your idea of "progress" in game design as increased complexity is so incredibly wrong that I am at a loss for words to counter this nonsense. Any successful professional game designer would rofl on this.
As for endless HG:L bashing on these threads I'm gettin kinda tired. The game is buggy and there is a lot of room for improvement, however it has a heart of gold - regardless of all its current unpolish I haven't had this much fun playing a game in a DECADE. This tells you something mate. I would BURY any MMORPG without auction house or meaningful PvP on release... not to mention instancing which I truly do loathe.
However, again this game is FUN and it is so much different in the very PHILOSOPHY of gaming from all the other anal nitpicking crappers of unfun (most other MMOs atm) that it is quite hard to compare it to any other game because there is nothing to compare it to (except Diablo 2 ofc). It is FUN - the basic function of any game... After playing HG:L cooperatively with people I know I hate the thought of doing the same in WoW for example. If HG:L is a rollercoaster ride with your mates then WoW is helping your grandma up the stairs and GW taking her out for a walk in the park.
Any successful game design like ID soft or Unreal? You didn't noticew the difference in sophisticatiuon between Doom's multiplayer and Quake Wars then. You didn't see any change between Unreal and Unreal Tournment. Good old deathmatch games are still best selling concerns I suppose.
Ultima Online is still outselling WoW. Righto.
You might notice that ALL successful games producers have advanced their multiplayer gametypes.
All of them.
Please name the "successful game designers" who haven't advanced their software in the last 10 years.
I can't think of a single one.
It's not just a phenomenon found in games either, you will also see the user base getting more educated and demanding more advanced features in each genereation of cars, music, television show, telephones, in fact in every aspect of technology products and commercial art.
For me, although I'm finding the bugs a real interuption to multiplayer gameplay, that's not enough to put me off playing.
What will put me off is that it's just a boring multiplay. There isn't any interaction between players. The multiplayer in this game is sub Diablo standard. It not only hasn't advanced the genre, it has gone backwards a step. Maps this small don't work as well.
I fail to see what is so exhilarating about the co-operative play in Hellgate. How exactly are you co-operating with each other?
I find the single player far more exhilerating. The mobs aren't all dead before I get there, and without being demolished by 5 people at the same time, the bosses take more than 1 second to fight. Sometimes I even have to think about how to approach a mob fo monsters so that I don't die!
Are you a proffessional game designer then? I'm sure you are, good for you.
99.999% of the people playing games are NOT game designers; and it is their decision whether or not a game is good.
Baff brought up valid points. The endless grind is starting to fade. Players are driven through Diablo II on an endless repetitive search for superior items - that will not function on modern gamers like it did back in the 90s. Teamwork IS a more important aspect when it comes to multiplayer games, and HGL is not based around, nor will ever be based around, teamwork. I've played the game enough by now to realize that my party members do not even have to aid me in team instances. Occassionally, you get together and fire at the same burning zombie for a while, but the teamwork is nothing but a huge puff of shitty special effects.
WoW made progress beyond Diablo II. It kept the aspects that are still important, and got rid of the unnecessary.
If you're saying that game design does not evolve - well, that would totally defeat the purpose of game makers releasing new games. I agree that increased complexity is not necessarily the point of game evolution - and I don't think bash meant what he said in the way that it could be interpretted. But yes, games have evolved and I hope you aren't arguing against that.
Why don't you guys who think WoW is so much better go back to it and leave us alone then?
Personally I think World of Warcraft is one of the worst games on the market. Blizzard took what was a promising game and then destroyed it by creating their current endgame scheme. But I guess that is what happens when they place EQ1 people in charge of the game design.
I have had more fun playing Hellgate in 1 day then I have had in any MMO since Dark Age of Camelot.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Because I want to discuss my disappointment with others who have been disappointed.
Wow has it's problems too, but is only half as deep in the rabbit-hole as HGL is...
Sometimes you have to wonder about those hating the game and post on the HGL forums. Honestly, these guys probably never played the game at all.
It's a hacknslash game with rpg,fps and mmo elements combined into one. It isn't going to be for everyone but that doesn't make it a bad game at all.
One of the most pathetic manifestation of childish is spending hours & hours on forums bashing the games that have disappointed you .
Its like crying your girlfriend doesnt love you anymore.Really sad but you better tell your friends because no one but them cares about your little drama.
Hellgate London teaches you to use the forums in order to post what problem/issue you're currently experiencing with the game code which is sad to say the least.
CURRENTLY PLAYING SHAIYA
I remember back in the day diable I supported the groundbreaking feature of random level generation. I am sure they make some improvement over random level generation in HGL, but it is no where near groundbreaking feature anymore.
Can we just accept the fact that HGL is not as good as it could have been.
1) I agree and I hope they fix that in the future.
2) Yes and no people can argue that...
3) Thats sort of 2 but err ok lol..
4) you should play WoW... Theres 24 char slots of subscribers and the point of it is a fast mmorpg that does not take months to get to 50 like wow... You can make 10 of the same class with diffrent tree's or maybe even diffrent sets.
SNIP
Can you reword your 4th point, i assume you mean "you should play [some other game not WoW]"
Thanks
No WoW is a good word.
SNIP
I actually mean because of the fact he pretty much says, you should play wow because its not like wow, that doesn't make sense so I was hoping to receive his actual input as I assume he didn't mean to say wow and had a misstype.
5. Each class is designed to be self-sufficient. There is no need/reason to team together. To make matter worse, the poorly designed user interface/char window make it harder to interactive with other players. I argue that HGL is not multiplayer friendly.
5. Each class is designed to be self-sufficient. There is no need/reason to team together. To make matter worse, the poorly designed user interface/char window make it harder to interactive with other players. I argue that HGL is not multiplayer friendly.
I never had problems soloing Baal with my poison necro, bone necro, summoner necro, special-build-curse-necro, orb sorx, blizzard sorx, fireball/meteor sorx, hybrid sorx, dual wield barb, tank barb (for a lack of better words ) ww barb, lightning amazon, bowazon and the few paladins I made either.
I see a pattern.
Respec is also something new-age that should simply be kept away from this type of game, otherwise the replayability will be reduced to 0 and cookiecutter builds ruin the fun of playing.
5. Each class is designed to be self-sufficient. There is no need/reason to team together. To make matter worse, the poorly designed user interface/char window make it harder to interactive with other players. I argue that HGL is not multiplayer friendly.
Respec is also something new-age that should simply be kept away from this type of game, otherwise the replayability will be reduced to 0 and cookiecutter builds ruin the fun of playing.
Zero replayability has nothing to do with respec. The problem with zero replayability and cookie cutter builds are the results of too little skills, too little feasible skills combos, no complex skills-interactions, not enough environment/external factors to affect the effectness of skills, not enough status effect.....etc ( I can go on foever about what are lacking...)