FFA pvp has alot of potential but it has been done poorly in every game that even attempts it.
First things first if you want free for all pvp the game has to be skill based, as in player skill not a skill system.
It can not be item based, you are basically going to have to go for a fps type of system where every weapon is useful and no weapon is vastley surperior to any other weapon.
Next the game needs to be built from the ground up with the attention of having ffa pvp, FFA servers do not work if the game was not built for FFA in the first place.
You should have a lot of consequences for killing someone in your own faction, this is so that it isn't a big frag fest.
The game should discourage player killing but it should be entirely feasable for people that do want to PK to do so albeit with a lot of difficulty.
This is meant to give you choices, and realistic concequences not restrictions for your gameplay style.
Anyway im going into what a sandbox pvp game is atm so ill stop, i think what the OP should of said is SANDBOX not FFA pvp. FFA pvp does not work by itself you can not just have FFA pvp other wise you will just get a gank fest and pointless griefing, basically see every mmo to date that attemps it.
The easiest thing to do is just read up on Darkfall, it is exactly what a Free for all sandbox pvp game needs to work. To bad it will probably not even have a quarter of its features if it ever releases.
Lastly, why call people carebears? so what they enjoy PvE, ever thought they may like pvp as well? Its not like people have a whole lot of choice in mmos when it comes to quality titles especially ones focusing on FFA/Sandbox type PvP systems.
Also FFA pvpers arent sociopaths or anti social ( well some are same as some pvers are but they are a minority), If anything PvP games are more social than say a PvE game like wow. It is not need to be social to be successful in a game like wow in most pvp built games it is needed or you will just get griefed non stop, and due to the small communities they usually have your actions for instance guild hoping, or w/e forms of anti social behavior will be known quickly.
Thats not to say that pve games do not have communitys like that their just isnt alot of them.
Unless by some miracle a sandbox game with a good free for all pvp system is released, and it would have to be along the lines of Darkfalls feature list to work which is why it is unlikely to happen any time soon, then we will just have to put up with out it. Theres no reason for Carebears as you call them to like FFA games there hasn't been a good one for them to base their opinion off of.
Who knows the next generation of games are obviously pvp centric, or have a good mix of pvp and pve so you might see more sandbox games in the future. The more that are attempted the more likely someone will get it right in the end
(hopefully that post made sense its quite late here but i felt like posting it seemed like an interesting thread )
- Free for all PVP. Kill a player anywhere, anytime for any reason we choose. Think for a minute what kind of world this could be. You could kill in the name of good or evil. You could protect players from harm or CAUSE them harm.
- Enjoy taking a players loot after they've been killed.
- Enjoy stealing from other players.
- Enjoy fighting against evil players and establishing order in a chaotic mmorpg environment.
- Being able to choose if your actions are "Good" or "Evil"
why would you want to encourage the kind of behavior that in real life would make you a criminal.
Do we really want our kids to be taught that settling differences with Violence is ok? Do we want them to believe that if they want something someone else has they should just take it?
The thrill you get is from doing these thing to other people and not npc's I understand that. You associate this violence with/against the person playing, not against an imaginary person/monster. There are people who allow that line to get blurred in real life they stop seeing people as people to justify their actions.
If you feel the need to unleash violence on people, either in real life or in a MMO in order to get your rush, then i hope to God you never live near me. becasue you are a short fuse away from being a bad person
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Well I'm personally not for 100% PvP myself, why, because of one lousy experience, first impressions and all that, low level newbie exploring the area, and wham! ganked..
Kinda ruins wanting to try and 'get along' with people in that environment, quite the opposite, I avoided people and interaction.
But I guess that makes me a carebear..
(Now on the other hand, OG SWG PVP <Rebs v Empire> _drool_ But that opens a whole new can of worms so I'll end it with that)
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress. That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.)
That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it. We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication. I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love.
(I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world.
The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress. That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.)
That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it. We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication. I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love.
(I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world.
The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game? because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress.
That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.) That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it.
We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication.
I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love. (I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world. The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress. That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.)
That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it. We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication. I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love.
(I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world.
The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
I'm not doing the whole coloured writing on points thing.
Your opinion on reasons for PvP is no more true than my opinion that the only reason people PvE is to grind pointlessly because it wastes the spare time they have in their lives which enables them to 'be someone' in a game to make up for them being noone in rl.
I PvP because its more challenging, there is no subsitute for it. Once you beat anything PvE you will always beat it, especially in MMO's where the AI simply isn't. Tbh in all the time I've PvP'd I've not once wished that the guy on the other end was crying into his screen at his loss, perhaps that says more about you than the genre.
You're inability to see that most people just think about what they did wrong to adjust for the next fight shows your lack empathy, we don't all think the same and people who enjoy PvP have died so many times in so many stupid ways that dieing again really does nothing other than drive you to play better, to organise your group more so for the next encounter. Maybe there are fundamentally different people some people really don't take it so personal, and others (it would appear like youself) who feel they've failed in some way. Your argument about the destruction of a the character is classic PvE thinking and in a 'good' PvP game is meaningless.
The ideal MMORPG is an individual thing, how can you tell me what my ideal MMO is? You are more confident or presumtuous than I could ever hope to be. (On a side note The lord of the Flies sounds like a great idea for an mmo, my guess is you took the story at face value and missed the point, or you just watched the film).
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
Like some others have said, I'm all for FFA pvp if it can be done correctly. That is, it needs some risk/reward system for killing in certain areas to mimic basic human morality. Eve has a pretty nice system for this with the varying levels of security. Being barred from towns etc in a ffa pvp game because your an outlaw would be a start. Despite the games I've played most of this year I greatly prefer a sandbox style game and I hope to see another good one soon.
Originally posted by vajuras Originally posted by mrw0lf Originally posted by Bane82 Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you? I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not) Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
I don't see you contributing much except flaming people who don't agree with you.
funny I have many blogs on this subject go to the blogs section to read up on my thoughts why do I have to keep rehashing my opinions every week one of these posts popup.
Originally posted by Bane82 Originally posted by vajuras Originally posted by mrw0lf Originally posted by Bane82 Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you? I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not) Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
As juvenile as this argument always seems to turn, I have to agree with Bane. Typically "PvP" is what players say, but what they really mean is "player vs helpless victim who has no idea he's about to get annihilated repeatedly for the next 2 hours." Of all the games I have played, only in the games where PvP is OPTIONAL do people actually use it to its full extent.
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not)
Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
what- when did someone say you must play on a PVP server lol I think you need to get some sleep there buddy. Age of Conan will have normal and FFA Servers I never ever said everyone needs to come to the FFA Server lmao.
you see the problem is ffa pvp doesnt work with level based games simple as that it has to be skilled based for it to be fair and to actulyl work 1 reason why shadowbane failed
I raised up recent chars on a wow pvp server. There were times where it was harsh, and there are times the pvp wastes your time. Overall, learning to deal with its ups and downs makes you a better player if you can live with the frustration. Sometimes there are skills learned in pvp that apply to pve, etc etc.
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not)
Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
what- when did someone say you must play on a PVP server lol I think you need to get some sleep there buddy. Age of Conan will have normal and FFA Servers I never ever said everyone needs to come to the FFA Server lmao.
Every single one of you morons that keep saying "why isn't there a strictly FFA PvP game???" as if somehow developers should start catering to only you and to hell with the rest of the playerbase. Now I see you're starting to backtrack, congratulations for showing your true colors.
I challenge to go find the post where I invited you to a PVP server. I'll stop posting for two weeks if you can find the post where I said I wanted a pve'er on a PVP server. I've always advocated for different rule sets.
you're really not reading anyones posts here. just flamin' away
Originally posted by darkraptor I raised up recent chars on a wow pvp server. There were times where it was harsh, and there are times the pvp wastes your time. Overall, learning to deal with its ups and downs makes you a better player if you can live with the frustration. Sometimes there are skills learned in pvp that apply to pve, etc etc.
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be PvP, quite the contrary, what (at least ht emajority of players) don't want is FFA PvP and definetely what (again, the majority, myself included) don't want is to not have the option of choose which server to play (strictly an FFA PvP server instead of having the options of RP, Normal or PvP server)
MMORPG's are supposed to be virtual worlds. The world is not and has never been a peaceful place where everyone get's along. The greatest achievement of humanity is the formation of societies. Why would you deny that ability in a MMORPG? If you can't be bad, then there is no good, you can't have order without chaos. Very basic principle here from Taoism. Do you appreciate a guildie more who has gone out of his way and risked his gear to help you, getting your gear back or saving you from being looted, or from one who meerly filled their role as a healer or whatever so they could get loot?
EVERYONE wants others to see their accomplishments. This is the whole point of multiplayer games. It is more fun and meaningful when someone else knows you have accomplished something. Why kill mindless AI over and over if you didn't gain xp and thus levels to show off your accomplishment? That is part of what makes MMORPG's fun, is showing others what you have done. The other is the social aspect, explained in first paragraph. Exploring can also be fun, sadly most MMORPG's have pathetic worlds so exploring is pretty boring.
I find it funny when anti-pvpers call ffa pvpers losers. You are the ones that take the game way too seriously. You take it personally for some reason and take it upon yourselves to make sure that FFA PVPers are told how wrong they are every chance you get. Just play the games, don't take it personally if someone beats you, you don't take it personally in football when someone tackles you do you? That is just part of the game. If you are playing a FFA pvp game then be a good sport and don't get pissed and take it personally if someone beats you.
The above paragraph is aimed at anti-pvpers. Does not mean non-pvpers, casual pvpers, rpers or what have you. It is the people that specifically try and do away with pvp from every game for some reason.
As far as levels go, well if a level 20 is vastly more powerful then a level 5, well that isn't a very well designed game. It is made around PvE with pvp thrown in. That is why it doesn't work is the designers didn't give it real thought. A higher level shouldn't nessicarily be more powerful, they should just have more options, more skills, more weapon types available to them. Spending your whole life at the computer shouldn't make you better than someone who is more skilled, but doesn't have 12 hours a day to play. A horizontal progression rather than a vertical one where power is based on the choices you make rather than playing more.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
I'm not doing the whole coloured writing on points thing.
Your opinion on reasons for PvP is no more true than my opinion that the only reason people PvE is to grind pointlessly because it wastes the spare time they have in their lives which enables them to 'be someone' in a game to make up for them being noone in rl. I PvP because its more challenging, there is no subsitute for it. Once you beat anything PvE you will always beat it, especially in MMO's where the AI simply isn't. Tbh in all the time I've PvP'd I've not once wished that the guy on the other end was crying into his screen at his loss, perhaps that says more about you than the genre. You're inability to see that most people just think about what they did wrong to adjust for the next fight shows your lack empathy, we don't all think the same and people who enjoy PvP have died so many times in so many stupid ways that dieing again really does nothing other than drive you to play better, to organise your group more so for the next encounter. Maybe there are fundamentally different people some people really don't take it so personal, and others (it would appear like youself) who feel they've failed in some way. Your argument about the destruction of a the character is classic PvE thinking and in a 'good' PvP game is meaningless. The ideal MMORPG is an individual thing, how can you tell me what my ideal MMO is? You are more confident or presumtuous than I could ever hope to be. (On a side note The lord of the Flies sounds like a great idea for an mmo, my guess is you took the story at face value and missed the point, or you just watched the film).
You are rather disingenuously conflating consensual PVP with non-consensual FFA. "People who enjoy PVP" aren't the problem. "People who enjoy inflicting PVP on people who aren't into it" are the problem, and the topic.
If you'd like to say it's normal, sane, healthy, or challening to log onto a game, deliberately look for someone who is defenseless or not involved in combat, then strike at them, loot their body, and /emote 'I azzrap3 ur corp5e!1!1!", then, please, by all means, do so. It should be good for some giggles.
Like some others have said, I'm all for FFA pvp if it can be done correctly. That is, it needs some risk/reward system for killing in certain areas to mimic basic human morality. Eve has a pretty nice system for this with the varying levels of security. Being barred from towns etc in a ffa pvp game because your an outlaw would be a start. Despite the games I've played most of this year I greatly prefer a sandbox style game and I hope to see another good one soon.
"Being barred from towns" is meaningless as generally implemented.
a)Everything you can get from a town, you can loot from some poor sucker walking out of town.
b)Your alts go to town.
c)Your best friends lawful honorable paladin of virtue and justice will happily take all of your stolen loot, sell it, and bring you back the gold. You can trust him because you're in Mr. Podowski's Home Room together.
The only way such a system could work, even a bit, would be:
a)Towns are vital. You can't 'log off' if NOT in a town. Your character remains online -- and killable -- even if you aren't. (You will be able to fight back with standard AI tactics, of course) Better make sure you're well hidden. If you are in a house, it will be possible to break into the house to kill you. (Don't let evil people stay in your house...)
b)Any 'good' character who trades with you becomes an 'acessory to a crime'. Ditto one who allows you into his house, or guild. (Guildies who turn evil will have a short window in which they can be punted, otherwise, the entire guild is flagged evil. )
c)All stolen goods are flagged. Anyone even CARRYING stolen goods is guard whomped, and the goods returned to the original owner. Protections need to be in place to keep someone from tricking an innocent into taking stolen goods, like a dialog which says "If you take this, you will be a criminal. Are you sure you want to do this?"
d)Single character per server, with severe penalties (accoutn cancelled and credit card charged) for dual boxing.
e)Permadeath for the evil. Good can't triumph over evil if evil can constasntly res. So after a certain number of deaths, an evil character is just wiped from the server. Combine with 'd', above, and you WILL have an actual triumph of order over chaos. It would be an interesting social experiment, but not financially viable. We'll see what happens if I win the lottery.
You want 'consequences'? I got your consequences right here, pal..
Like some others have said, I'm all for FFA pvp if it can be done correctly. That is, it needs some risk/reward system for killing in certain areas to mimic basic human morality. Eve has a pretty nice system for this with the varying levels of security. Being barred from towns etc in a ffa pvp game because your an outlaw would be a start. Despite the games I've played most of this year I greatly prefer a sandbox style game and I hope to see another good one soon.
"Being barred from towns" is meaningless as generally implemented.
a)Everything you can get from a town, you can loot from some poor sucker walking out of town.
b)Your alts go to town.
c)Your best friends lawful honorable paladin of virtue and justice will happily take all of your stolen loot, sell it, and bring you back the gold. You can trust him because you're in Mr. Podowski's Home Room together.
The only way such a system could work, even a bit, would be:
a)Towns are vital. You can't 'log off' if NOT in a town. Your character remains online -- and killable -- even if you aren't. (You will be able to fight back with standard AI tactics, of course) Better make sure you're well hidden. If you are in a house, it will be possible to break into the house to kill you. (Don't let evil people stay in your house...)
Not with current technology, I always thought about this though.
b)Any 'good' character who trades with you becomes an 'acessory to a crime'. Ditto one who allows you into his house, or guild. (Guildies who turn evil will have a short window in which they can be punted, otherwise, the entire guild is flagged evil. )
Sounds good.
c)All stolen goods are flagged. Anyone even CARRYING stolen goods is guard whomped, and the goods returned to the original owner. Protections need to be in place to keep someone from tricking an innocent into taking stolen goods, like a dialog which says "If you take this, you will be a criminal. Are you sure you want to do this?"
Sounds good, assuming you mean goods a thief stole and the victim or a witness was able to report it and wasn't killed. Don't see any other way you can steal from a player.
d)Single character per server, with severe penalties (accoutn cancelled and credit card charged) for dual boxing.
Hell yeah.
e)Permadeath for the evil. Good can't triumph over evil if evil can constasntly res. So after a certain number of deaths, an evil character is just wiped from the server. Combine with 'd', above, and you WILL have an actual triumph of order over chaos. It would be an interesting social experiment, but not financially viable. We'll see what happens if I win the lottery.
You have to have permadeath for all otherwise it will simply encourage pkers to roam around in giant hordes so they don't have any chance of being killed.
You want 'consequences'? I got your consequences right here, pal..
Also, a good combat system will make dual boxing difficult if not impossible to use with any effeciency.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Good post, and as expected there's a flock of carebears who decided to cry in this thread.
this guy proves one of my points.
Im all for FFA PVP , looting , the works .. but i dont want to play with this attitude.
why should i waste my time putting up with this mentality that gives the good PVP players a bad rep and does nothing but continue to drive the dagger into the heart of PVP games. this attitude is why you will never see one based wholly on FFA PVP again. No one to blame but this guy and his like minded friends.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Good post, and as expected there's a flock of carebears who decided to cry in this thread.
this guy proves one of my points.
Im all for FFA PVP , looting , the works .. but i dont want to play with this attitude.
why should i waste my time putting up with this mentality that gives the good PVP players a bad rep and does nothing but continue to drive the dagger into the heart of PVP games. this attitude is why you will never see one based wholly on FFA PVP again. No one to blame but this guy and his like minded friends.
There will always people that annoy you, the difference is, in a FFA PvP game you can do something about it.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Comments
FFA pvp has alot of potential but it has been done poorly in every game that even attempts it.
First things first if you want free for all pvp the game has to be skill based, as in player skill not a skill system.
It can not be item based, you are basically going to have to go for a fps type of system where every weapon is useful and no weapon is vastley surperior to any other weapon.
Next the game needs to be built from the ground up with the attention of having ffa pvp, FFA servers do not work if the game was not built for FFA in the first place.
You should have a lot of consequences for killing someone in your own faction, this is so that it isn't a big frag fest.
The game should discourage player killing but it should be entirely feasable for people that do want to PK to do so albeit with a lot of difficulty.
This is meant to give you choices, and realistic concequences not restrictions for your gameplay style.
Anyway im going into what a sandbox pvp game is atm so ill stop, i think what the OP should of said is SANDBOX not FFA pvp. FFA pvp does not work by itself you can not just have FFA pvp other wise you will just get a gank fest and pointless griefing, basically see every mmo to date that attemps it.
The easiest thing to do is just read up on Darkfall, it is exactly what a Free for all sandbox pvp game needs to work. To bad it will probably not even have a quarter of its features if it ever releases.
Lastly, why call people carebears? so what they enjoy PvE, ever thought they may like pvp as well? Its not like people have a whole lot of choice in mmos when it comes to quality titles especially ones focusing on FFA/Sandbox type PvP systems.
Also FFA pvpers arent sociopaths or anti social ( well some are same as some pvers are but they are a minority), If anything PvP games are more social than say a PvE game like wow. It is not need to be social to be successful in a game like wow in most pvp built games it is needed or you will just get griefed non stop, and due to the small communities they usually have your actions for instance guild hoping, or w/e forms of anti social behavior will be known quickly.
Thats not to say that pve games do not have communitys like that their just isnt alot of them.
Unless by some miracle a sandbox game with a good free for all pvp system is released, and it would have to be along the lines of Darkfalls feature list to work which is why it is unlikely to happen any time soon, then we will just have to put up with out it. Theres no reason for Carebears as you call them to like FFA games there hasn't been a good one for them to base their opinion off of.
Who knows the next generation of games are obviously pvp centric, or have a good mix of pvp and pve so you might see more sandbox games in the future. The more that are attempted the more likely someone will get it right in the end
(hopefully that post made sense its quite late here but i felt like posting it seemed like an interesting thread
)
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Well I'm personally not for 100% PvP myself, why, because of one lousy experience, first impressions and all that, low level newbie exploring the area, and wham! ganked..
Kinda ruins wanting to try and 'get along' with people in that environment, quite the opposite, I avoided people and interaction.
But I guess that makes me a carebear..
(Now on the other hand, OG SWG PVP <Rebs v Empire> _drool_ But that opens a whole new can of worms so I'll end it with that)
Oh and as for the title of the thread itself. I'm glad FFA PvPers are a dying breed, too bad it's not soon enough since a good chunk of them now are griefers. Again, as I stated before, when I want to PvP I'd rather do it in an FPS where skill actually matters and the consequences of death aren't so horrible I will stop playing.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress. That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.)
That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it. We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication. I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love.
(I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world.
The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress. That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.)
That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it. We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication. I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love.
(I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world.
The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
so, what you're saying is that you're comparing real life to a video game?
because, you know, i'm sure every kid that plays horde on world of warcraft runs around trying to kill other people with an axe, dressed up as an orc.
Have a little fire, strawman!
Remember, the whole POINT of PVP is the knowledge there is a real, live, human being controlling the avatar you're fighting. If you, as the OP said, deliberately give someone a poisonous pie in order to 'punish' them for foolishly thinking you were being generous, you are gaining pleasure by causing a real person to experience emotional distress. That's why PVP is more "fun" (for sociopaths) than killing identical-looking avatars which are known to be controlled by AI. The thrill comes in the knowledge you have inflicted pain on someone else.(Those who say "It's just a game, no one should be upset by it" are demonstrating their inability to empathize -- a classic sign of sociopathy. Someone who has put hours or weeks of work into a character is not going to feel nothing if that work is stolen or rendered meaningless. Anyone who thinks they would or should does not think like a human being.)
That's sociopathy. That's the definition of it. We can be happy if such people restrict themselves to in-game environments, but just as, in Ye Olden Days, serial killers would start with killing and torturing animals before moving on to people, I consider anyone who says "I like ganking n00bs" to be seriously warped.
Please distinguish this from any form of *consensual* conflict. (Duelling, battlegrounds, PVP flags, etc) It is one thing to have a system where every participant chooses to engage in combat -- there is no implicit sadism or cruelty in beating the crap out of someone who stepped forward and said, "Hey, you! Come and try to beat the crap out of me!" However, the OP and his sycophants rage against even the simplest limitations on their ability to inflict harm to the unsuspecting and the unwilling. That is indicative of a seriously disturbed personality, and I'd recommend counseling or medication. I have a Jack Thompson voodoo doll, and folks like the OP are the fuel which stokes his fire. The fewer of them there are, the fewer folks like him there will be. He is harmful to gaming, which is a hobby I love.
(I'd call playing a game advertised and marketed as being FFA PVP, like EVE, to be 'asking for it'. So is joining an FFA server. However, UO, the canonical example, was NOT advertised or marketed as a slauighterfest; it was supposedly an heir to the Ultima games, which focused on being an exemplar of virture and forming an adventuring party to kill monsters. It is the perfect example of how NOT to do PVP.)
Honestly, FFA PVP belongs in FPS games, where you die, you respawn, and you keep fighting, with no characters to be attached to, gear to grind for, or skills to level up. It doesn't work in an MMORPG. It is antithetical to the concept, and very alien to those of us who began with (and still play) P&P games. The ideal MMORPG is one which best mimics the P&P experience -- a party of allies taking on a hostile world.
The OP clearly would rather play "Lord Of The Flies" than "Lord Of The Rings". Sucks to be him, I guess, in oh so many ways...
I'm not doing the whole coloured writing on points thing.
Your opinion on reasons for PvP is no more true than my opinion that the only reason people PvE is to grind pointlessly because it wastes the spare time they have in their lives which enables them to 'be someone' in a game to make up for them being noone in rl.
I PvP because its more challenging, there is no subsitute for it. Once you beat anything PvE you will always beat it, especially in MMO's where the AI simply isn't. Tbh in all the time I've PvP'd I've not once wished that the guy on the other end was crying into his screen at his loss, perhaps that says more about you than the genre.
You're inability to see that most people just think about what they did wrong to adjust for the next fight shows your lack empathy, we don't all think the same and people who enjoy PvP have died so many times in so many stupid ways that dieing again really does nothing other than drive you to play better, to organise your group more so for the next encounter. Maybe there are fundamentally different people some people really don't take it so personal, and others (it would appear like youself) who feel they've failed in some way. Your argument about the destruction of a the character is classic PvE thinking and in a 'good' PvP game is meaningless.
The ideal MMORPG is an individual thing, how can you tell me what my ideal MMO is? You are more confident or presumtuous than I could ever hope to be. (On a side note The lord of the Flies sounds like a great idea for an mmo, my guess is you took the story at face value and missed the point, or you just watched the film).
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
Like some others have said, I'm all for FFA pvp if it can be done correctly. That is, it needs some risk/reward system for killing in certain areas to mimic basic human morality. Eve has a pretty nice system for this with the varying levels of security. Being barred from towns etc in a ffa pvp game because your an outlaw would be a start. Despite the games I've played most of this year I greatly prefer a sandbox style game and I hope to see another good one soon.
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not)
Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
Man you got ganked real hard. How long did he corpse camp you?
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
I don't see you contributing much except flaming people who don't agree with you.
funny I have many blogs on this subject go to the blogs section to read up on my thoughts why do I have to keep rehashing my opinions every week one of these posts popup.
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not)
Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
As juvenile as this argument always seems to turn, I have to agree with Bane. Typically "PvP" is what players say, but what they really mean is "player vs helpless victim who has no idea he's about to get annihilated repeatedly for the next 2 hours." Of all the games I have played, only in the games where PvP is OPTIONAL do people actually use it to its full extent.
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not)
Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
what- when did someone say you must play on a PVP server lol I think you need to get some sleep there buddy. Age of Conan will have normal and FFA Servers I never ever said everyone needs to come to the FFA Server lmao.
you see the problem is ffa pvp doesnt work with level based games simple as that it has to be skilled based for it to be fair and to actulyl work 1 reason why shadowbane failed
I raised up recent chars on a wow pvp server. There were times where it was harsh, and there are times the pvp wastes your time. Overall, learning to deal with its ups and downs makes you a better player if you can live with the frustration. Sometimes there are skills learned in pvp that apply to pve, etc etc.
/rant
I challenged him to an FPS match I dont think he's a pvper period. just here trollin' all day and night about losing some precious pixels on the screen he worked so hard for.
trolling? ROFL! look who's talking! at least I and many of us against FFA PvP have valid arguments. All you and players like you seem to spout off is "But I want to be able to kill you whenever I feel like it!" yeah, nice sportmanship... lol! Are you PO'd because I don't feel like feeding your e-peen? get a life pal. It's been said here and in countless other forums, if you like PvP, join a PvP server, but don't FORCE it down everyone's throats just because you feel like being an @$$ and gank lowbies (again, yet another show of good sportmsanship... not)
Somehow I feel you're not the one who's the real PvPer here.
what- when did someone say you must play on a PVP server lol I think you need to get some sleep there buddy. Age of Conan will have normal and FFA Servers I never ever said everyone needs to come to the FFA Server lmao.
Every single one of you morons that keep saying "why isn't there a strictly FFA PvP game???" as if somehow developers should start catering to only you and to hell with the rest of the playerbase. Now I see you're starting to backtrack, congratulations for showing your true colors.
I challenge to go find the post where I invited you to a PVP server. I'll stop posting for two weeks if you can find the post where I said I wanted a pve'er on a PVP server. I've always advocated for different rule sets.
you're really not reading anyones posts here. just flamin' away
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be PvP, quite the contrary, what (at least ht emajority of players) don't want is FFA PvP and definetely what (again, the majority, myself included) don't want is to not have the option of choose which server to play (strictly an FFA PvP server instead of having the options of RP, Normal or PvP server)
MMORPG's are supposed to be virtual worlds. The world is not and has never been a peaceful place where everyone get's along. The greatest achievement of humanity is the formation of societies. Why would you deny that ability in a MMORPG? If you can't be bad, then there is no good, you can't have order without chaos. Very basic principle here from Taoism. Do you appreciate a guildie more who has gone out of his way and risked his gear to help you, getting your gear back or saving you from being looted, or from one who meerly filled their role as a healer or whatever so they could get loot?
EVERYONE wants others to see their accomplishments. This is the whole point of multiplayer games. It is more fun and meaningful when someone else knows you have accomplished something. Why kill mindless AI over and over if you didn't gain xp and thus levels to show off your accomplishment? That is part of what makes MMORPG's fun, is showing others what you have done. The other is the social aspect, explained in first paragraph. Exploring can also be fun, sadly most MMORPG's have pathetic worlds so exploring is pretty boring.
I find it funny when anti-pvpers call ffa pvpers losers. You are the ones that take the game way too seriously. You take it personally for some reason and take it upon yourselves to make sure that FFA PVPers are told how wrong they are every chance you get. Just play the games, don't take it personally if someone beats you, you don't take it personally in football when someone tackles you do you? That is just part of the game. If you are playing a FFA pvp game then be a good sport and don't get pissed and take it personally if someone beats you.
The above paragraph is aimed at anti-pvpers. Does not mean non-pvpers, casual pvpers, rpers or what have you. It is the people that specifically try and do away with pvp from every game for some reason.
As far as levels go, well if a level 20 is vastly more powerful then a level 5, well that isn't a very well designed game. It is made around PvE with pvp thrown in. That is why it doesn't work is the designers didn't give it real thought. A higher level shouldn't nessicarily be more powerful, they should just have more options, more skills, more weapon types available to them. Spending your whole life at the computer shouldn't make you better than someone who is more skilled, but doesn't have 12 hours a day to play. A horizontal progression rather than a vertical one where power is based on the choices you make rather than playing more.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
You are rather disingenuously conflating consensual PVP with non-consensual FFA. "People who enjoy PVP" aren't the problem. "People who enjoy inflicting PVP on people who aren't into it" are the problem, and the topic.
If you'd like to say it's normal, sane, healthy, or challening to log onto a game, deliberately look for someone who is defenseless or not involved in combat, then strike at them, loot their body, and /emote 'I azzrap3 ur corp5e!1!1!", then, please, by all means, do so. It should be good for some giggles.
"Being barred from towns" is meaningless as generally implemented.
a)Everything you can get from a town, you can loot from some poor sucker walking out of town.
b)Your alts go to town.
c)Your best friends lawful honorable paladin of virtue and justice will happily take all of your stolen loot, sell it, and bring you back the gold. You can trust him because you're in Mr. Podowski's Home Room together.
The only way such a system could work, even a bit, would be:
a)Towns are vital. You can't 'log off' if NOT in a town. Your character remains online -- and killable -- even if you aren't. (You will be able to fight back with standard AI tactics, of course) Better make sure you're well hidden. If you are in a house, it will be possible to break into the house to kill you. (Don't let evil people stay in your house...)
b)Any 'good' character who trades with you becomes an 'acessory to a crime'. Ditto one who allows you into his house, or guild. (Guildies who turn evil will have a short window in which they can be punted, otherwise, the entire guild is flagged evil. )
c)All stolen goods are flagged. Anyone even CARRYING stolen goods is guard whomped, and the goods returned to the original owner. Protections need to be in place to keep someone from tricking an innocent into taking stolen goods, like a dialog which says "If you take this, you will be a criminal. Are you sure you want to do this?"
d)Single character per server, with severe penalties (accoutn cancelled and credit card charged) for dual boxing.
e)Permadeath for the evil. Good can't triumph over evil if evil can constasntly res. So after a certain number of deaths, an evil character is just wiped from the server. Combine with 'd', above, and you WILL have an actual triumph of order over chaos. It would be an interesting social experiment, but not financially viable. We'll see what happens if I win the lottery.
You want 'consequences'? I got your consequences right here, pal..
"Being barred from towns" is meaningless as generally implemented.
a)Everything you can get from a town, you can loot from some poor sucker walking out of town.
b)Your alts go to town.
c)Your best friends lawful honorable paladin of virtue and justice will happily take all of your stolen loot, sell it, and bring you back the gold. You can trust him because you're in Mr. Podowski's Home Room together.
The only way such a system could work, even a bit, would be:
a)Towns are vital. You can't 'log off' if NOT in a town. Your character remains online -- and killable -- even if you aren't. (You will be able to fight back with standard AI tactics, of course) Better make sure you're well hidden. If you are in a house, it will be possible to break into the house to kill you. (Don't let evil people stay in your house...)
Not with current technology, I always thought about this though.
b)Any 'good' character who trades with you becomes an 'acessory to a crime'. Ditto one who allows you into his house, or guild. (Guildies who turn evil will have a short window in which they can be punted, otherwise, the entire guild is flagged evil. )
Sounds good.
c)All stolen goods are flagged. Anyone even CARRYING stolen goods is guard whomped, and the goods returned to the original owner. Protections need to be in place to keep someone from tricking an innocent into taking stolen goods, like a dialog which says "If you take this, you will be a criminal. Are you sure you want to do this?"
Sounds good, assuming you mean goods a thief stole and the victim or a witness was able to report it and wasn't killed. Don't see any other way you can steal from a player.
d)Single character per server, with severe penalties (accoutn cancelled and credit card charged) for dual boxing.
Hell yeah.
e)Permadeath for the evil. Good can't triumph over evil if evil can constasntly res. So after a certain number of deaths, an evil character is just wiped from the server. Combine with 'd', above, and you WILL have an actual triumph of order over chaos. It would be an interesting social experiment, but not financially viable. We'll see what happens if I win the lottery.
You have to have permadeath for all otherwise it will simply encourage pkers to roam around in giant hordes so they don't have any chance of being killed.
You want 'consequences'? I got your consequences right here, pal..
Also, a good combat system will make dual boxing difficult if not impossible to use with any effeciency.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Im all for FFA PVP , looting , the works .. but i dont want to play with this attitude.
why should i waste my time putting up with this mentality that gives the good PVP players a bad rep and does nothing but continue to drive the dagger into the heart of PVP games. this attitude is why you will never see one based wholly on FFA PVP again. No one to blame but this guy and his like minded friends.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Im all for FFA PVP , looting , the works .. but i dont want to play with this attitude.
why should i waste my time putting up with this mentality that gives the good PVP players a bad rep and does nothing but continue to drive the dagger into the heart of PVP games. this attitude is why you will never see one based wholly on FFA PVP again. No one to blame but this guy and his like minded friends.
There will always people that annoy you, the difference is, in a FFA PvP game you can do something about it.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.