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DF may of missed it's boat
With the new combat system seen in AoC, DF may be already out dated before it even releases. If the combat system in AoC is a success which many people feel it will be, then it could very well put an end to the old style attack and run up close and let your toon do all the work type of combat. DF has some great ideas, that seem to stem from older, more hard-core style MMOs like UO. However, times are changing and what gets big subs is going to demand some innovative techniques. I feel that if DF is still alive, it will need seriously revamped even before it could get close to anouncing beta.
Comments
its already been revamped at least twice.
Thats why its been in development forever.
Hopefully they wont keep reworking over and over.
Everything is moving into aim, click, attack now. AoC will be that way, but so is TCOS and TR, and who knows what else. DF will just be another one like it, but it looks overall that *IF* darkfall comes out in a reasonable amount of time, it seems to have the most depth out of any game I've seen. Or so they say, again, all just speculation.
1) It has to run well on a large number of PC's (i.e. WOW).... if users must have state of the art hardware to play it well...expect a smaller player base.
2) DF needs to make FFA PVP more popular by making it work well. Other than EVE, few games have made much progress since Shadowbane. DF's skill based system should give it an edge over AOC and its level based system..unless the separate PVP levels mean that a level 1 player in theory could also be level 20 in PVP and be competitive w/o having to grind any PVE.
3) Sure, AOC has some nice innovations including its combat system (verdict is out on that though), DF has its own, with ship combat, attackable player cities in the open world to name a few.
4) Of course, DF is actually going to have to be released. AOC appears to be closer in this regard, however as we all know...until the game actually goes live one never knows what's going to happen (right PE?)
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow ok you actually made me log in and post, usually i just read the forums and try to stay away from posting. Darkfall is a FPS, meaning you do all of the work, personally AoC's combat looks like crap, its a fake version of a FPS, but thats just my opinion. darkfall is a full FPS you have to hit every attack dodge every blow, their is no fake combat rolls, so really i think darkfall will be the one outdating AoC, but thats just my opinion please research a little more before you make posts like this though, its not very hard to find out its a FPS
Honestly research doesn't have much to do with it. Since DF is only speculation at this point there is no valid research that would discern any type of combat. If you take the small blurps on FPS as your validated research then so be it, but I won't give it much credit until it is atleast functional with actual players, as seen in beta. AoC's combat system, while IYO is crap, is actually a functional combat system that is able to work with multiple players.
It appears that you're giving more credit to a combat system that may not even exsist than a combat system that has already won a good amount of praise. Of course, DF's so called FPS system has potential to be great, but it also has potential to be crap. But being the first to be innovative will pay off. Taking a back seat and letting all these new innovative games come out will not be in the benefit to DF. I'm not advocating pushing crap out (ex. Vanguard) before it's ready, but timing is crucial when it comes to subscriptions.
Honestly research doesn't have much to do with it. Since DF is only speculation at this point there is no valid research that would discern any type of combat. If you take the small blurps on FPS as your validated research then so be it, but I won't give it much credit until it is atleast functional with actual players, as seen in beta. AoC's combat system, while IYO is crap, is actually a functional combat system that is able to work with multiple players.
It appears that you're giving more credit to a combat system that may not even exsist than a combat system that has already won a good amount of praise. Of course, DF's so called FPS system has potential to be great, but it also has potential to be crap. But being the first to be innovative will pay off. Taking a back seat and letting all these new innovative games come out will not be in the benefit to DF. I'm not advocating pushing crap out (ex. Vanguard) before it's ready, but timing is crucial when it comes to subscriptions.
Well, most people that have been following DF for a long time have, at some point in time, tried out a single player game called Mount and Blade. It's well known that the combat system in Darkfall is heavily influenced by this game. For good reason too since Mount and Blade has a pretty damn good system. One thing that impressed me was the way mounted combat works. While being very powerful, you can't go running around doing 90 degree turns at breakneck speeds and if your hose gets stopped and 2-3 guys swarm you, well you're fucked. I can only imagine that the Darkfall combat system will be as good or better than Mount and Blade.Oh and when i heard the AoC dev say you couldn't kill guildmates, i died a little inside.
AoC doesnt have manual block....................and it doesnt have ffa pvp.........................and you can only build castles in a special zone, tons of instances........grind for levels and gear. How can you even compare the two?
Honestly research doesn't have much to do with it. Since DF is only speculation at this point there is no valid research that would discern any type of combat. If you take the small blurps on FPS as your validated research then so be it, but I won't give it much credit until it is atleast functional with actual players, as seen in beta. AoC's combat system, while IYO is crap, is actually a functional combat system that is able to work with multiple players.
It appears that you're giving more credit to a combat system that may not even exsist than a combat system that has already won a good amount of praise. Of course, DF's so called FPS system has potential to be great, but it also has potential to be crap. But being the first to be innovative will pay off. Taking a back seat and letting all these new innovative games come out will not be in the benefit to DF. I'm not advocating pushing crap out (ex. Vanguard) before it's ready, but timing is crucial when it comes to subscriptions.
Sorry Stellos, you are wrong, research has everything to do with it. Funcom might not be quiet as tight lipped as the DFO devs, but that doesn't mean the combat system in DFO is any less real than AOC.You giving credit some place, or me giving creidt someplace really all boils down to opinion, because unless you have experienced the beta or demo a one of the CON's, then it is opinion, not fact.
Honestly research doesn't have much to do with it. Since DF is only speculation at this point there is no valid research that would discern any type of combat. If you take the small blurps on FPS as your validated research then so be it, but I won't give it much credit until it is atleast functional with actual players, as seen in beta. AoC's combat system, while IYO is crap, is actually a functional combat system that is able to work with multiple players.
It appears that you're giving more credit to a combat system that may not even exsist than a combat system that has already won a good amount of praise. Of course, DF's so called FPS system has potential to be great, but it also has potential to be crap. But being the first to be innovative will pay off. Taking a back seat and letting all these new innovative games come out will not be in the benefit to DF. I'm not advocating pushing crap out (ex. Vanguard) before it's ready, but timing is crucial when it comes to subscriptions.
Sorry Stellos, you are wrong, research has everything to do with it. Funcom might not be quiet as tight lipped as the DFO devs, but that doesn't mean the combat system in DFO is any less real than AOC.You giving credit some place, or me giving creidt someplace really all boils down to opinion, because unless you have experienced the beta or demo a one of the CON's, then it is opinion, not fact.
I suppose I'd respond to that, but it appears you wrote it while intoxicated and standing on your head because I can't make sense out of your writing.
You're correct, if in fact you are trying to say that it is based on opinion. I can't quite tell if that's what you're saying, but I think it is. DF is of course based on all speculation because there is no hard evidence that the game even exsists. I'm just doubting, and I hope I'm wrong, that DFs combat system will be up to par by the time it releases in comparison to available MMOs. You can only throw out the combat system so many times before you throw out the baby with the bathwater. If they are going to take all this time in making a game, how many times do you think their combat system has changed since.....what...appx. 2000?
The day that AoC comes up with an actual PvP video I just might take this thread seriously. Until then I'll just LOL!
yea me too LOL
there is plenty of evedince the game exist what features are in already and how close to beta it is is what hasnt been prooven
BUT 2005 beta was for testign seiges out they said screw it and decided to add more stuff
we know ship combat is in we havent seen crafting or player housing vids >.> thats the only thing really we havent seen everything else we have seen to a point but its there stellos really go look at the vids go look at the 400 plus screenshots ><
I had to reply on this one,
Darkfall is the only project that is trying to bring the mmorpg genre to the next level.
You talk about more work ... but honestly WoW raiding and grinding was alot more work then SWG ever was.
Just trying to compare sandbox vs linear games here.
Also if you get faction/guild pvp right, then you can get a good system like in EvE Online.
Then about being forced to click buttons and FPS style vs regular mmorpg style combat, I had the best times in Planetside because of the FPS style combat, also Oblivion style combat is alot more fun for me then the regular mmorpg style combat.
But I thought that AoC style combat was also FPS style ...
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By building on 7 year old ideas? That's an interesting way of doing it...
I have no clue what you're talking about , but I do know that I just reported you for harassment and forging quotes that I never made...
And no I am not losing steam. In fact , everything I say is so on point that it seems to aggravate you to no end. Don't blame me for Darkfalls obvious and lengthy shortcomings... blame the people building it.. harassing me for pointing out the obvious isn't going to further your deluded cause.. just get you a nice ban.
Personally I am really looking froward to DF. I don't see any shortcomings. Will there be greifers? It is likely there will be a few, but on the other hand for killing people they will get negative standings with all the cities near by so they won't be able to trade and pick-up supplies plus everyone will want to kill them.
I am not sure why you think its not real. Lots of games have long development times. PotBS has been in development for 5 years. DF since 2001/02? Since then they have also witnessed the massive success of WoW pulling in hundreds of millions of dollars a year and i would guess they are in no rush to release a product that doesn't have a chance of taking a share of that market.
By building on 7 year old ideas? That's an interesting way of doing it...
Thats kind of funny that you brought that up because it IS a strange way of doing it. Everyone promises the world, and DF has literally promised a world. Whether it comes out or not is a different story, and whether it comes out with everything they promise, thats another story entirely.
HOWEVER, 7 years of ideas is quite a thing to build on, and the thing is, it's not even really 100% of their ideas. They are striving (or at least we think they are) to create a completely sandbox game, that is polished in a way that would make users want to actually play it. It's something that hasn't been done before. How close have we come? SWG pre NGE? Maybe Vanguard? Not even close to what DF has promised. Even WAR and AoC haven't promised the kind of depth that DF has,
And these are all things that aren't revolutionary, they've been around, just they haven't been around in one game that works properly. I'm somewhat interested to see how this will turn out.
OP: I think the way you're looking at it is kind of backwards. I haven't read enough about AoC to rebuttle your statements, but what I can say is that I don't really think combat systems get 'outdated' in the way you talk about it. There are various types of combat systems that have been used in the past. The manual aim (or any variant of it) is nothing new to MMO's. From what I remember in Asheron's call, you had to manually aim your spells to hit your opponent. Same thing here, but I think they are taking it to the next level. I'd like to do some research on the AoC Combat System to get an idea of what they are trying to do, but do you see my point?
Yes I do see your point. I just feel that AoC combat system proves to be fairly innovative and well functional when stacked up against other MMOs previously released or those set to release in 2008 as well such as WAR. I just do not think that DFs current alleged FPS style that is talked about frequently will match up well when put to an actual stress test. My orginal point was that, IF DF is actually being developed, then they started a long long time ago and combat is a very crucial part of an MMO espectially one like DF and therefore, I imagine their FPS style that they first created will evolve but not change completely - leaving it a creation of the past. I just can't see how something created so long ago will stack up against the new combat styles that will be seen Q2 '08 of games that were in the more "fast paced" development.
By building on 7 year old ideas? That's an interesting way of doing it...
Tabula Rasa started development in 2001, so thats around 6 and a half years.
Compare TR's feature list to Darkfalls.
And now, think before posting a reply.
And to the OP, AoC and Darkfall are games that are worlds apart.
The combat system is VERY different, Darkfall is an FPS and AoC is a third person game with button hitting for different styles of swings etc (Unique indeed, but that doesn't make it better)
Which combat system is better? Matter of opinion. And in my opinion, Darkfall.
Then why don't you go play Tabula Rasa?
What does Tabula Rasa have to do with darkfall? Absolutely nothing.
If you think by saying Tabula Rasa was announced in 2001 justifies darkfalls shortcomings , you're way off base.
darkfall doesn't have Ncsoft behind it , nor Richard Garriott. Not to mention you can actually buy and play that game right now.
I never followed Tabula Rasa but I'am pretty sure it had a hell of alot more credibility while it was in development.
So maybe DF's development timetable isn't that far off....considering the fact it has promised far more features, isn't backed by one of the largest MMORPG companies in the business and had to be reworked in 2005.... just like TR did in 2004.
I mean, if it took NCSoft and RG this long to deliver TR...and DF's timetable makes much more sense....
Good job Lance.... glad to see you supporting DF
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Exactly, while we don't know what DF will end up being, we do know what AoC already is - a mass-market carebear game masked behind a Mature rating and content.
We also do know what AoC's combat is like too. Sure there are special moves, but they are not much more than nifty looking animations - you still just stand next to enemies and swing away. Anything in the area of your swinging is hit.
What interests me the most about DF is the proposed FFA PvP and full loot design and concept. No other upcoming fantasy MMO I know of is proposing the same level of gameplay and features. It's something different and I hope it eventually arrives.
DF didn't miss the boat, it's going in a completely different direction than AoC.
Exactly, while we don't know what DF will end up being, we do know what AoC already is - a mass-market carebear game masked behind a Mature rating and content.
We also do know what AoC's combat is like too. Sure there are special moves, but they are not much more than nifty looking animations - you still just stand next to enemies and swing away. Anything in the area of your swinging is hit.
What interests me the most about DF is the proposed FFA PvP and full loot design and concept. No other upcoming fantasy MMO I know of is proposing the same level of gameplay and features. It's something different and I hope it eventually arrives.
DF didn't miss the boat, it's going in a completely different direction than AoC.
FFA PVP and full loot design will either make or break this game IF it ever comes out. True FFA PVP would mean high lvl ganking or full groups rolling single or lowbies etc. Giant guild running around destroying small guilds towns etc. All this = little to no player base and eventuall closing of the game. I love pvp and I can handle player looting but pretty much all my gaming friends hate this kind of thing, and they wont go neer it. If you make people afraid to pvp then you wont have much pvp at all, and thats all I really like to do at max lvl.