wait, wait, wait DAoC had Item Decay I did not know they did this? was item decay applicable to only player crafted items or everything?
Everything. The lower the quality, the faster the decay. Quality also affects DPS and actual armor rating. So more skilled crafters were more likely of making masterpiece (100 quality) items. The higher the quality the more imbue points they have, which allows more bonuses to be spellcrafted into the items.
EDIT: Forgot durability. As items decay they lose stats on a % basis. You can repair them, but that decreases the durability. When durability gets too low, the item is useless and unrepairable. So the crafters pretty much make all the gear since even the best epic gear eventually wears out. At least when I played.
omg thats so freakin' awesome! I must play this game now. since EVE is timed based hopefully I can play it concurrently with that. Thank you so much you taught me something lol
It's been fun tagging along as games have evolved over the years. It seems right now that there is a consensus that MMORPGs are sort of stuck in a repetitive rut. Even the game developers are not happy, since most them are losing profits to WoW. The solution will have to be some game that can break the mould. The mould that it must break is the very shape of WoW - the accumulation of all MMORPGs leading up to the perfection that is WoW. Like Starcraft, Diablo, and Warcraft; a Blizzard game only reiterates the features and design that we've already seen. When that design is trumped, it disappears. I have faith in MMORPG gamers because they are explorers and dreamers. People who imagine something larger than a deathmatch in an FPS. MMORPGs are already breaking the mould of what games are. Perhaps it's premature to ask for something further down the road of video game evolution. One thing is for certain - the evolution of games is inevitable. WoW has perfected the last generation of MMORPGs, and many of the upcoming games are simply trying to beat WoW, or are trying to draw a small niche of gamers. Eventually our attention will be drawn away from WoW towards some new game that we can't even imagine right now - something that will be innovative and ground-breaking. This game will be as alien to WoW as WoW is alien to Chrono trigger. I'm afraid that we'll have to wait for this game. There is alot of cheese in MMORPGs, like there is in movies and music. It's strange that one genre can draw so many poorly implemented games. The failures will slowly reinforce the movement by game developers towards a game that is original. I'm taking a long break from MMORPGs - I have a degree to focus on. When I come back, I think I will be drawn by something none of us have thought of, something we haven't seen before. I'm not being pessimistic or optimistic - I'm simply pointing out the inevitable. Those that are new to this genre might not understand what I'm saying, and might argue with me. Those that hve been here for a while will know exactly what I'm talking about. Let us take a second and probe the future. Somewhere amidst the vast unknowns is the WoW killer. Who will make it?
wait, wait, wait DAoC had Item Decay I did not know they did this? was item decay applicable to only player crafted items or everything?
Everything. The lower the quality, the faster the decay. Quality also affects DPS and actual armor rating. So more skilled crafters were more likely of making masterpiece (100 quality) items. The higher the quality the more imbue points they have, which allows more bonuses to be spellcrafted into the items.
EDIT: Forgot durability. As items decay they lose stats on a % basis. You can repair them, but that decreases the durability. When durability gets too low, the item is useless and unrepairable. So the crafters pretty much make all the gear since even the best epic gear eventually wears out. At least when I played.
omg thats so freakin' awesome! I must play this game now. since EVE is timed based hopefully I can play it concurrently with that. Thank you so much you taught me something lol
Sure thing. ToA added artifacts though, which put a dent in the crafted gear, but most people play on classic because they don't like ToA.
One more thing.... Your avatar disturbs me... It always seems to be... watching me.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
The only thing that will kill wow is Blizzard catering to a small minority of their community if they contenue to do that, then the game will die because they will no longer have the elements that made the game successful in the first place.
But they have seen their mistake you can tell by what has been added after BC launch. And if you look at the features of the next expansion they are aiming to fix alot of problems that wow currently has.
They are constantly improving the game, adding new content, get rid of crap content etc they have made a lot of mistakes but they are being addressed... slowly.
If other game developers are just going to constantly make wow style game mechanics they will fail, does anyone honestly think that people will quit wow to play a game that is just like wow with better graphics, and a few unique bits of fluff? especially when wow is improving constantly.
Thats why warhammer wont beat wow, that is why lord of the rings hasnt beaten wow the core gameplay is still the same. People will just complain the games feel like wow get bored quickly since they are playing the same mechanics they are obviously bored of before, and either do one of 2 things quit mmos, or go back to wow hoping it has gotten better.
Age of conan is not a contender one of the things you need to beat wow is low system specs, and a family friendly appeal for the game, 2 things age of conan does not have so theres no point getting your hopes up it will be the next wow because it won't.
The only way any game will beat wow in any way is to be totally different down to the core gameplay whislt being polished, i wont say like wow because lord of the rings i would consider much more polished than wow was at launch and still slightly more polished than wow is now. And also as mentioned by having low system specs as in any one and their mum can play it just like wow.
There are a few games in development that look like, and some just claim that they have those things but we will have to wait and see. But i wont give any hopes up on warhammer, and age of conan being the next big thing they will be lucky to have 500k-600k subs each which is respectable, they are just doing to many things that have been done before that have proven to not equal a successful game atleast not by a true competitor to wow kind of way.
Lastly, does it really matter if anyone beats wow? personally i am looking forward to POTBS and TCOS neither of which are very likely to pull huge numbers, as long as the game is fun though who cares? Hopefully both do well, same with AION, and Age of conan since they are all different if developers can see that these games can do well when they are not using everquest mechanics then the mmo market would not be so stagnant.
Btw it should probably be noted i dont like world of warcraft played it got fed up of Blizzard messing up the game and then slowly realizing their mistake then even more slowly fixing it I believe they still havent got that new patch and i quit over 6 months ago now lol.
Sims online is also one of the best selling games, does that mean that it's good? Good at what? Good at making money? Yes. Good at appealing to a lot of people? Yes. A good game? Well..that's all a matter of taste, which is exactly my point. Popular is not always good. Hell, having sex with donkey's in some countries is popular from what I have heard. Anyway, you can't say something is good just because a lot of people like it, as it is all a matter of PERSONAL taste. The end.
Everything in the world comes down to personal taste. I personally love the taste of shit, therefore it is a better food.
Thanks for you excellent argument. Now feel free to leave this post while the rest of us have some discussing to do...
I think WoW is catered to the young and inexperienced. I think the game is boring, easy and goes by too quickly. But I think WoW has done one good thing for MMORPGS, it made alot of developers open their eyes. We will get many many more MMORPGS because of WoW. Will all of them be good? Nah. It will keep this market open and alive though. I would like to add the MMORPG genre is so popular now and has such a huge fan base. It is time to cater games to certian type of gamers, instead of trying the all in one method. You will have a much more satisfied customer of you did this. The market is big now, we should have different flavors of MMORPGs out there of great quality. We should have the easy ones, the difficult ones, the sci fi, fantasy, skill based, level based, class based, deep, shallow, kiddie themed, adult themed, soloing ones, grouping ones, pvp ones, pve ones. Does that not make sense to anyone but me, I hope not.
I think it would give that particular audience you are aiming for the experience they are after much more accurately. That is what I am waiting for, I hate playing these all in one games, give me a game more tailored to my playstyle please.
I agree wholeheartedly. I would love a game for the mainstream and another game for the small percentage (.05% ) of people who enjoy sitting in naxx five hours every night while questing and workin gon alts the other 10 hours of the day that they are awake.
The only thing that will kill wow is Blizzard catering to a small minority of their community if they contenue to do that, then the game will die because they will no longer have the elements that made the game successful in the first place. But they have seen their mistake you can tell by what has been added after BC launch. And if you look at the features of the next expansion they are aiming to fix alot of problems that wow currently has. They are constantly improving the game, adding new content, get rid of crap content etc they have made a lot of mistakes but they are being addressed... slowly. If other game developers are just going to constantly make wow style game mechanics they will fail, does anyone honestly think that people will quit wow to play a game that is just like wow with better graphics, and a few unique bits of fluff? especially when wow is improving constantly. Thats why warhammer wont beat wow, that is why lord of the rings hasnt beaten wow the core gameplay is still the same. People will just complain the games feel like wow get bored quickly since they are playing the same mechanics they are obviously bored of before, and either do one of 2 things quit mmos, or go back to wow hoping it has gotten better. Age of conan is not a contender one of the things you need to beat wow is low system specs, and a family friendly appeal for the game, 2 things age of conan does not have so theres no point getting your hopes up it will be the next wow because it won't. The only way any game will beat wow in any way is to be totally different down to the core gameplay whislt being polished, i wont say like wow because lord of the rings i would consider much more polished than wow was at launch and still slightly more polished than wow is now. And also as mentioned by having low system specs as in any one and their mum can play it just like wow. There are a few games in development that look like, and some just claim that they have those things but we will have to wait and see. But i wont give any hopes up on warhammer, and age of conan being the next big thing they will be lucky to have 500k-600k subs each which is respectable, they are just doing to many things that have been done before that have proven to not equal a successful game atleast not by a true competitor to wow kind of way. Lastly, does it really matter if anyone beats wow? personally i am looking forward to POTBS and TCOS neither of which are very likely to pull huge numbers, as long as the game is fun though who cares? Hopefully both do well, same with AION, and Age of conan since they are all different if developers can see that these games can do well when they are not using everquest mechanics then the mmo market would not be so stagnant. Btw it should probably be noted i dont like world of warcraft played it got fed up of Blizzard messing up the game and then slowly realizing their mistake then even more slowly fixing it I believe they still havent got that new patch and i quit over 6 months ago now lol.
You addressed several concrete problems with WoW. Blizzard seems to cater to hardcore PvE raiders - which is alienating the other 6.999999 million players.
One thing you said that I agree with 10000% is this
"The only way any game will beat wow in any way is to be totally different down to the core gameplay whislt being polished"
Many people act like the WoW killer will be some MMORPG that has better instances, better graphics, more accessibility to poor computer, better marketing, funner grinding, and more hybridization. They are dead wrong.
The only MMORPG that can beat WoW will be a revolutionary MMORPG that gives us a new type of persistent world. This will likely result in many other similar revolutionary RPGs being developed within 5 years of release and an eventual 'perfection' of the genre by EA, Blizzard, or SOE. Hopefully, if the new genre is dynamic enough, we will see lots of spinoffs that are equally fun.
Sims online is also one of the best selling games, does that mean that it's good? Good at what? Good at making money? Yes. Good at appealing to a lot of people? Yes. A good game? Well..that's all a matter of taste, which is exactly my point. Popular is not always good. Hell, having sex with donkey's in some countries is popular from what I have heard. Anyway, you can't say something is good just because a lot of people like it, as it is all a matter of PERSONAL taste. The end.
Everything in the world comes down to personal taste. I personally love the taste of shit, therefore it is a better food.
Thanks for you excellent argument. Now feel free to leave this post while the rest of us have some discussing to do...
So 9+ have played WoW. When it comes to the next MMO do you think they will all accept the same kind of game? I played WoW for over a year and upon calling it quits, I was sick of static worlds, I was sick of doing quests A-M, then moving to the next zone, and really the final nail in the coffin was the raiding nature of the end game. Even at level 60 I was out killing 20 thingys in Slithern. The point is all the follow on games I've played /checked out- Vanguard, Everquest 2, LOTRO, Sword of the New World, they were all been there, done that.
Today I broke down and got my hands on Tabula Rasa. I'm not expecting anything great, but who knows I love Planetside for 18 months, so maybe I'll be surprised.
----------------------- Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW. Current MMO: Current Games: L4D, Skyrim Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR. Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
I don't honestly care anymore what kills WoW. Yes I play it still somewhat (it's getting boring at level 61) but I just REALLY want a good SW MMO to come out, not what we have now. Then I'll be happy to switch games and even if it doesn't kill WoW I still won't care as long as a new SW MMO will bring enough of a community to enjoy the game with.
IMO there is no such thing as a WoW killer, well maybe a game based on starcraft. WoW brought most of their subscribers from battle net so the only way I see them leaving WoW, would be to go to another game made by blizzard.
The only way I could see a game beating WoWs current sub numbers if they have it based on a really popular IP. The problem with that though is I don't know of any other IP out there that has more fans with computers that can play a modern game than blizzard's fan base.
There are more popular IPs out there no doubt, like star wars, harry potter, maybe warhammer but I doubt they have enough fans with good computers to rival WoW. WoW was ingenious because almost all of their fans had computers that could run the game they were making.
Originally posted by osc8r So WOW is good? ...good at making money, yes, but a good game? Well that's all a matter of opinion. To me WOW has already been killed, numerous times - as there are plenty of MMO's I rate higher than WOW. Though, if you are solely talking about beating (killing) WOW's sub numbers, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, at least not until Blizzard makes a new MMO.
Yes, WOW is good. Unless you mean to imply that their millions of subscribers are idiots (which is pretty much the consensus on this site). Good is subjective. Subscriptions aren't. By the sheer number of subs that WOW has, I'd say it's good enough to beat the crap out of every other game on the market. Hell I'm sick to death of WOW, but I'm not going to join the anti-WOW league that goes around slamming the game every chance they get and denying anything good about it.
bah, I need to go to bed.
Sims online is also one of the best selling games, does that mean that it's good? Good at what? Good at making money? Yes. Good at appealing to a lot of people? Yes. A good game? Well..that's all a matter of taste, which is exactly my point.
Popular is not always good. Hell, having sex with donkey's in some countries is popular from what I have heard.
Anyway, you can't say something is good just because a lot of people like it, as it is all a matter of PERSONAL taste.
The end.
Absolutely correct when u apply this to yourself only. When you post on a website frequented by other people, you HAVE to adjust your attitude to other people. If you think something is good but 10 people say it sux, then i would say that something does suck. When you compare something (good/bad is a form of comparison) you have to remove personal taste and judge that something completely objectively - in other words, if something A has support from 200 people, and something B has 500, then something B is better then something A.
Is WoW good? yes
is McDonalds good? yes
is Dark and Light good? no
is killing a human being for no reason good? no
is human slavery good? no
I bet even the most ridiculous questions (like the last 2) would get both types of answers. No question would ever get 100% yes or 100% no. You actually proved my own point with your donkey example, just becuase SOME people in SOME countries consider donkey sex good, MOST people in MOST countries dont consider donkey sex as good. Conclusion: sorry, but donkey sex is NOT good.
Originally posted by osc8r So WOW is good? ...good at making money, yes, but a good game? Well that's all a matter of opinion. To me WOW has already been killed, numerous times - as there are plenty of MMO's I rate higher than WOW. Though, if you are solely talking about beating (killing) WOW's sub numbers, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, at least not until Blizzard makes a new MMO.
Yes, WOW is good. Unless you mean to imply that their millions of subscribers are idiots (which is pretty much the consensus on this site). Good is subjective. Subscriptions aren't. By the sheer number of subs that WOW has, I'd say it's good enough to beat the crap out of every other game on the market. Hell I'm sick to death of WOW, but I'm not going to join the anti-WOW league that goes around slamming the game every chance they get and denying anything good about it. bah, I need to go to bed.
Sims online is also one of the best selling games, does that mean that it's good? Good at what? Good at making money? Yes. Good at appealing to a lot of people? Yes. A good game? Well..that's all a matter of taste, which is exactly my point. Popular is not always good. Hell, having sex with donkey's in some countries is popular from what I have heard. Anyway, you can't say something is good just because a lot of people like it, as it is all a matter of PERSONAL taste. The end.
Absolutely correct when u apply this to yourself only. When you post on a website frequented by other people, you HAVE to adjust your attitude to other people. If you think something is good but 10 people say it sux, then i would say that something does suck. When you compare something (good/bad is a form of comparison) you have to remove personal taste and judge that something completely objectively - in other words, if something A has support from 200 people, and something B has 500, then something B is better then something A. Is WoW good? yes is McDonalds good? yes is Dark and Light good? no is killing a human being for no reason good? no is human slavery good? no I bet even the most ridiculous questions (like the last 2) would get both types of answers. No question would ever get 100% yes or 100% no. You actually proved my own point with your donkey example, just becuase SOME people in SOME countries consider donkey sex good, MOST people in MOST countries dont consider donkey sex as good. Conclusion: sorry, but donkey sex is NOT good.
To the OP, there will be no wow-killer. Know your enemy before you set about killing it. Wow's dominant place in the market place stems from two causes that can't be "killed."
1. Wow is constantly advertising their game. You only need to look at pepsi and coke (sugar water) to know the power of advertising.
2. The Blizzard Brand name - all gamers on this planet know the Blizzard brand name. The brought multiplayer RTS to the world; they've made a lot of fun (and funny) games. In life, reputation counts.
So, unless you somehow halt Blizzard advertising or go on a ten-year smear campaign of their brand image, you won't do much to affect their revenues. And unless you go through the same growing pains they did when serving the Asian market, you won't be breaking into that market anytime soon.
In other words, engaging gameplay is NOT what makes WoW a dominant force in the marketplace. They made a reasonably fun, painfully easy game to appeal to the masses. I have no desire to play such a carebear, hand-holding game of frequent and meaningless rewards.
That said, I am personally a fan of Blizzard due to their awesome RTS games; and I am happy they are at the top. They can personally thank Everquest for showing Blizzard devs such a good time that they decided to make their own. If this is news to you, I suggest you do some research.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I'm just hoping for a "WoW Survivor" to surface in the near future. I just want to see a game that is not an EQ clone pull a million subs so it can have the revenue to keep progressing. Then there will at least be something different in the MMORPG world that is at least a real option. It would spur more games to be non-EQ clones and maybe at some point we could have a true selection of quality games that catered to all the different gameplay styles that exist.
I really hope WAR is one of these games, and I think Stargate Worlds and the Bioware MMO (if it is Star Wars) can do the same in a few years. However, like many are saying, blizzard is already developing the successor to WoW's legacy. I'm sure it will be another EQ clone as well.
To the OP, there will be no wow-killer. Know your enemy before you set about killing it. Wow's dominant place in the market place stems from two causes that can't be "killed." 1. Wow is constantly advertising their game. You only need to look at pepsi and coke (sugar water) to know the power of advertising. 2. The Blizzard Brand name - all gamers on this planet know the Blizzard brand name. The brought multiplayer RTS to the world; they've made a lot of fun (and funny) games. In life, reputation counts. So, unless you somehow halt Blizzard advertising or go on a ten-year smear campaign of their brand image, you won't do much to affect their revenues. And unless you go through the same growing pains they did when serving the Asian market, you won't be breaking into that market anytime soon. In other words, engaging gameplay is NOT what makes WoW a dominant force in the marketplace. They made a reasonably fun, painfully easy game to appeal to the masses. I have no desire to play such a carebear, hand-holding game of frequent and meaningless rewards. That said, I am personally a fan of Blizzard due to their awesome RTS games; and I am happy they are at the top. They can personally thank Everquest for showing Blizzard devs such a good time that they decided to make their own. If this is news to you, I suggest you do some research.
While all the points you made are 100% true - there are counteracting reasons that WoW won't last forever.
1. People get bored of the same old same old
2. Competition will steal gamers (maybe bleed it slowly, as some are suggesting)
3. You can only be certain that one thing will always happen in the future - Change
The MMORPG has taken unexpected twists and turns since it's beginning - I see no reason why it would suddenly stall and stay the same as it is for the next two decades.
Originally posted by Tierce I'm just hoping for a "WoW Survivor" to surface in the near future. I just want to see a game that is not an EQ clone pull a million subs so it can have the revenue to keep progressing. Then there will at least be something different in the MMORPG world that is at least a real option. It would spur more games to be non-EQ clones and maybe at some point we could have a true selection of quality games that catered to all the different gameplay styles that exist. I really hope WAR is one of these games, and I think Stargate Worlds and the Bioware MMO (if it is Star Wars) can do the same in a few years. However, like many are saying, blizzard is already developing the successor to WoW's legacy. I'm sure it will be another EQ clone as well.
I can get behind that... can it be a sci fi MMO though instead of WAR? I'm honestly getting tired of Orc v. Elf fantasy MMO's I really hope Bioware's MMO is SW because I honestly couldn't get into the whole star gate TV series. The only one's I could enjoy were Farscape and Babylon 5.
The "WoW killer" exists only in the wet dreams of the WoW haters, who often simply can't fathom that to have mainstream appeal and success you need a number of factors that hardly any other company or brand can provide - possibly nobody. Those looking for a "WoW killer" - most often a "revolutionary MMOG" - generally fail to see that their idea of this game appeals only to a core group of gamers who will never be sufficient to financially support a game of the size of WoW unless the subscription fee was vastly higher than any current MMOG.
List below very much based on a list made by Gordon Walton of BioWare. Too tired to dig up the interview / article now.
Keys to WoW's success that anybody may copy:
Low system specs
Gentle learning curve, both game system and UI
Solo friendly
Few but meaningful choices (too many choices and the general player worries about making the wrong choice)
Support for PvPers
Token attention to RPers
Keys to WoW's success that only a few can copy:
More than a decade's experience in running online gaming services (Battle.net)
Content, content, content (this costs tons of money)
Polish, polish, polish (this costs tons of money too)
Keys to WoW's success that virtually nobody can copy:
It's f'ing Blizzard! The marketing strength of that developer brand is simply overwhelming. While they're not known for innovation, they are for perfection. Few, if any, can get anywhere close on this point.
First Western MMOG to really penetrate the Chinese market. With some time to go before a potential challenger can start thinking outside US and EU, who knows where they'll go next.
Any company thinking they'll give Blizzard a run for the title any time soon had better run a reality check or two, and if they come out thinking they'll make it are either delusional or having some aces on their hands that I can' possibly fathom at this time.
But... we will surely have successful MMOGs coming up. Or at least I really hope so. PotBS, AoC, WAR, I think and hope they'll do well, and in my own wet dreams they all reach 500k. As will every other MMOG that comes out, but no way they'll kill WoW. Only Blizzard can possibly do that, and the way they're doing things right now it's just getting bigger and bigger.
I'm just hoping for a "WoW Survivor" to surface in the near future. I just want to see a game that is not an EQ clone pull a million subs so it can have the revenue to keep progressing. Then there will at least be something different in the MMORPG world that is at least a real option. It would spur more games to be non-EQ clones and maybe at some point we could have a true selection of quality games that catered to all the different gameplay styles that exist. I really hope WAR is one of these games, and I think Stargate Worlds and the Bioware MMO (if it is Star Wars) can do the same in a few years. However, like many are saying, blizzard is already developing the successor to WoW's legacy. I'm sure it will be another EQ clone as well.
I very much second Bane82's support for this. I don't think a million is needed though. 300k should be enough, while 500k would be great. But the publishers need to realise that before they start making budgets based on 2 million subscribers and then give developers impossible deadlines and budgets to complete the game when they realise those 2 millions are not gonna happen.
Reasonable expectations, and a budget to go with them, please. Blizzard didn't aim and plan for 9 millions. Neither should anybody else.
The "WoW killer" exists only in the wet dreams of the WoW haters, who often simply can't fathom that to have mainstream appeal and success you need a number of factors that hardly any other company or brand can provide - possibly nobody. Those looking for a "WoW killer" - most often a "revolutionary MMOG" - generally fail to see that their idea of this game appeals only to a core group of gamers who will never be sufficient to financially support a game of the size of WoW unless the subscription fee was vastly higher than any current MMOG. List below very much based on a list made by Gordon Walton of BioWare. Too tired to dig up the interview / article now. Keys to WoW's success that anybody may copy:
Low system specs Gentle learning curve, both game system and UI Solo friendly Few but meaningful choices (too many choices and the general player worries about making the wrong choice) Support for PvPers Token attention to RPers
Keys to WoW's success that only a few can copy:
More than a decade's experience in running online gaming services (Battle.net) Content, content, content (this costs tons of money) Polish, polish, polish (this costs tons of money too)
Keys to WoW's success that virtually nobody can copy:
It's f'ing Blizzard! The marketing strength of that developer brand is simply overwhelming. While they're not known for innovation, they are for perfection. Few, if any, can get anywhere close on this point. First Western MMOG to really penetrate the Chinese market. With some time to go before a potential challenger can start thinking outside US and EU, who knows where they'll go next.
Any company thinking they'll give Blizzard a run for the title any time soon had better run a reality check or two, and if they come out thinking they'll make it are either delusional or having some aces on their hands that I can' possibly fathom at this time. But... we will surely have successful MMOGs coming up. Or at least I really hope so. PotBS, AoC, WAR, I think and hope they'll do well, and in my own wet dreams they all reach 500k. As will every other MMOG that comes out, but no way they'll kill WoW. Only Blizzard can possibly do that, and the way they're doing things right now it's just getting bigger and bigger.
There are many companies with more experience than Blizzard. Blizzard only really had RTS experience prior to WoW. There are plenty such as Mythic who have experience with MMO's prior to making another. The population of this Earth is constantly growing and there are therefore more people able to play video games. I don't see any problem with seeing a game getting in the 5+ million active subscribers area in the future.
You also have to understand that more than 70% of WoW's subscribers are from asia and asia minor quite a few of those subscribers being goldfarmers. WoW is one of the LEAST money related games, in the sense that gold doesn't do as much for you in WoW as most other MMORPG's. A game that currency is more valued in can acquire more Chinese subscribers since they will have more business to do.
I once again can't stress enough how Blizzard is not the only juggernaut. RTS games have usually always had less of a following than FPS or RPG games. Starcraft and Warcraft were great but they were never the kings of online gaming at any point in time other than the fact that they were popular and fun.
Comments
Everything. The lower the quality, the faster the decay. Quality also affects DPS and actual armor rating. So more skilled crafters were more likely of making masterpiece (100 quality) items. The higher the quality the more imbue points they have, which allows more bonuses to be spellcrafted into the items.
EDIT: Forgot durability. As items decay they lose stats on a % basis. You can repair them, but that decreases the durability. When durability gets too low, the item is useless and unrepairable. So the crafters pretty much make all the gear since even the best epic gear eventually wears out. At least when I played.
omg thats so freakin' awesome! I must play this game now. since EVE is timed based hopefully I can play it concurrently with that. Thank you so much you taught me something lol
yes
yes
EverQuest 3, errr Vanguard 2
Everything. The lower the quality, the faster the decay. Quality also affects DPS and actual armor rating. So more skilled crafters were more likely of making masterpiece (100 quality) items. The higher the quality the more imbue points they have, which allows more bonuses to be spellcrafted into the items.
EDIT: Forgot durability. As items decay they lose stats on a % basis. You can repair them, but that decreases the durability. When durability gets too low, the item is useless and unrepairable. So the crafters pretty much make all the gear since even the best epic gear eventually wears out. At least when I played.
Sure thing. ToA added artifacts though, which put a dent in the crafted gear, but most people play on classic because they don't like ToA.omg thats so freakin' awesome! I must play this game now. since EVE is timed based hopefully I can play it concurrently with that. Thank you so much you taught me something lol
One more thing.... Your avatar disturbs me... It always seems to be... watching me.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
The only thing that will kill wow is Blizzard catering to a small minority of their community if they contenue to do that, then the game will die because they will no longer have the elements that made the game successful in the first place.
But they have seen their mistake you can tell by what has been added after BC launch. And if you look at the features of the next expansion they are aiming to fix alot of problems that wow currently has.
They are constantly improving the game, adding new content, get rid of crap content etc they have made a lot of mistakes but they are being addressed... slowly.
If other game developers are just going to constantly make wow style game mechanics they will fail, does anyone honestly think that people will quit wow to play a game that is just like wow with better graphics, and a few unique bits of fluff? especially when wow is improving constantly.
Thats why warhammer wont beat wow, that is why lord of the rings hasnt beaten wow the core gameplay is still the same. People will just complain the games feel like wow get bored quickly since they are playing the same mechanics they are obviously bored of before, and either do one of 2 things quit mmos, or go back to wow hoping it has gotten better.
Age of conan is not a contender one of the things you need to beat wow is low system specs, and a family friendly appeal for the game, 2 things age of conan does not have so theres no point getting your hopes up it will be the next wow because it won't.
The only way any game will beat wow in any way is to be totally different down to the core gameplay whislt being polished, i wont say like wow because lord of the rings i would consider much more polished than wow was at launch and still slightly more polished than wow is now. And also as mentioned by having low system specs as in any one and their mum can play it just like wow.
There are a few games in development that look like, and some just claim that they have those things but we will have to wait and see. But i wont give any hopes up on warhammer, and age of conan being the next big thing they will be lucky to have 500k-600k subs each which is respectable, they are just doing to many things that have been done before that have proven to not equal a successful game atleast not by a true competitor to wow kind of way.
Lastly, does it really matter if anyone beats wow? personally i am looking forward to POTBS and TCOS neither of which are very likely to pull huge numbers, as long as the game is fun though who cares? Hopefully both do well, same with AION, and Age of conan since they are all different if developers can see that these games can do well when they are not using everquest mechanics then the mmo market would not be so stagnant.
Btw it should probably be noted i dont like world of warcraft played it got fed up of Blizzard messing up the game and then slowly realizing their mistake then even more slowly fixing it I believe they still havent got that new patch and i quit over 6 months ago now lol.
VANGUARD
Thanks for you excellent argument. Now feel free to leave this post while the rest of us have some discussing to do...
One thing you said that I agree with 10000% is this
"The only way any game will beat wow in any way is to be totally different down to the core gameplay whislt being polished"
Many people act like the WoW killer will be some MMORPG that has better instances, better graphics, more accessibility to poor computer, better marketing, funner grinding, and more hybridization. They are dead wrong.
The only MMORPG that can beat WoW will be a revolutionary MMORPG that gives us a new type of persistent world. This will likely result in many other similar revolutionary RPGs being developed within 5 years of release and an eventual 'perfection' of the genre by EA, Blizzard, or SOE. Hopefully, if the new genre is dynamic enough, we will see lots of spinoffs that are equally fun.
Everything in the world comes down to personal taste. I personally love the taste of shit, therefore it is a better food.Thanks for you excellent argument. Now feel free to leave this post while the rest of us have some discussing to do...
How's your donkey going these days?
So 9+ have played WoW. When it comes to the next MMO do you think they will all accept the same kind of game? I played WoW for over a year and upon calling it quits, I was sick of static worlds, I was sick of doing quests A-M, then moving to the next zone, and really the final nail in the coffin was the raiding nature of the end game. Even at level 60 I was out killing 20 thingys in Slithern.
The point is all the follow on games I've played /checked out- Vanguard, Everquest 2, LOTRO, Sword of the New World, they were all been there, done that.
Today I broke down and got my hands on Tabula Rasa. I'm not expecting anything great, but who knows I love Planetside for 18 months, so maybe I'll be surprised.
-----------------------
Past MMOs- Planetside, WoW.
Current MMO:
Current Games: L4D, Skyrim
Tried- ATITD, EQ2, SoR, Vanguard,SL,LOTRO,SotNW,SWTOR.
Anticipating- GW2, Planetside2
I dont think we're going to see a WoW killer until a unique MMO akin to darkfall or that new well online comes out
WoW was not able to 'kill' EQ1, AO, DaOC or any other mainstream MMORPG that was active at the time of the release of WoW.
Why would anyone expect a new game to 'kill' WoW when it comes out? I would expect WoW to be around for at least another Decade, or more.
When it dies, it will be the Death of a Thousand Cuts; not from the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique.
Good Hunting
I don't honestly care anymore what kills WoW. Yes I play it still somewhat (it's getting boring at level 61) but I just REALLY want a good SW MMO to come out, not what we have now. Then I'll be happy to switch games and even if it doesn't kill WoW I still won't care as long as a new SW MMO will bring enough of a community to enjoy the game with.
IMO there is no such thing as a WoW killer, well maybe a game based on starcraft. WoW brought most of their subscribers from battle net so the only way I see them leaving WoW, would be to go to another game made by blizzard.
The only way I could see a game beating WoWs current sub numbers if they have it based on a really popular IP. The problem with that though is I don't know of any other IP out there that has more fans with computers that can play a modern game than blizzard's fan base.
There are more popular IPs out there no doubt, like star wars, harry potter, maybe warhammer but I doubt they have enough fans with good computers to rival WoW. WoW was ingenious because almost all of their fans had computers that could run the game they were making.
bah, I need to go to bed.
Sims online is also one of the best selling games, does that mean that it's good? Good at what? Good at making money? Yes. Good at appealing to a lot of people? Yes. A good game? Well..that's all a matter of taste, which is exactly my point.
Popular is not always good. Hell, having sex with donkey's in some countries is popular from what I have heard.
Anyway, you can't say something is good just because a lot of people like it, as it is all a matter of PERSONAL taste.
The end.
Absolutely correct when u apply this to yourself only. When you post on a website frequented by other people, you HAVE to adjust your attitude to other people. If you think something is good but 10 people say it sux, then i would say that something does suck. When you compare something (good/bad is a form of comparison) you have to remove personal taste and judge that something completely objectively - in other words, if something A has support from 200 people, and something B has 500, then something B is better then something A.Is WoW good? yes
is McDonalds good? yes
is Dark and Light good? no
is killing a human being for no reason good? no
is human slavery good? no
I bet even the most ridiculous questions (like the last 2) would get both types of answers. No question would ever get 100% yes or 100% no. You actually proved my own point with your donkey example, just becuase SOME people in SOME countries consider donkey sex good, MOST people in MOST countries dont consider donkey sex as good. Conclusion: sorry, but donkey sex is NOT good.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
To the OP, there will be no wow-killer. Know your enemy before you set about killing it. Wow's dominant place in the market place stems from two causes that can't be "killed."
1. Wow is constantly advertising their game. You only need to look at pepsi and coke (sugar water) to know the power of advertising.
2. The Blizzard Brand name - all gamers on this planet know the Blizzard brand name. The brought multiplayer RTS to the world; they've made a lot of fun (and funny) games. In life, reputation counts.
So, unless you somehow halt Blizzard advertising or go on a ten-year smear campaign of their brand image, you won't do much to affect their revenues. And unless you go through the same growing pains they did when serving the Asian market, you won't be breaking into that market anytime soon.
In other words, engaging gameplay is NOT what makes WoW a dominant force in the marketplace. They made a reasonably fun, painfully easy game to appeal to the masses. I have no desire to play such a carebear, hand-holding game of frequent and meaningless rewards.
That said, I am personally a fan of Blizzard due to their awesome RTS games; and I am happy they are at the top. They can personally thank Everquest for showing Blizzard devs such a good time that they decided to make their own. If this is news to you, I suggest you do some research.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I'm just hoping for a "WoW Survivor" to surface in the near future. I just want to see a game that is not an EQ clone pull a million subs so it can have the revenue to keep progressing. Then there will at least be something different in the MMORPG world that is at least a real option. It would spur more games to be non-EQ clones and maybe at some point we could have a true selection of quality games that catered to all the different gameplay styles that exist.
I really hope WAR is one of these games, and I think Stargate Worlds and the Bioware MMO (if it is Star Wars) can do the same in a few years. However, like many are saying, blizzard is already developing the successor to WoW's legacy. I'm sure it will be another EQ clone as well.
1. People get bored of the same old same old
2. Competition will steal gamers (maybe bleed it slowly, as some are suggesting)
3. You can only be certain that one thing will always happen in the future - Change
The MMORPG has taken unexpected twists and turns since it's beginning - I see no reason why it would suddenly stall and stay the same as it is for the next two decades.
I can get behind that... can it be a sci fi MMO though instead of WAR? I'm honestly getting tired of Orc v. Elf fantasy MMO's I really hope Bioware's MMO is SW because I honestly couldn't get into the whole star gate TV series. The only one's I could enjoy were Farscape and Babylon 5.
The "WoW killer" exists only in the wet dreams of the WoW haters, who often simply can't fathom that to have mainstream appeal and success you need a number of factors that hardly any other company or brand can provide - possibly nobody. Those looking for a "WoW killer" - most often a "revolutionary MMOG" - generally fail to see that their idea of this game appeals only to a core group of gamers who will never be sufficient to financially support a game of the size of WoW unless the subscription fee was vastly higher than any current MMOG.
List below very much based on a list made by Gordon Walton of BioWare. Too tired to dig up the interview / article now.
Keys to WoW's success that anybody may copy:
Keys to WoW's success that only a few can copy:
Keys to WoW's success that virtually nobody can copy:
Any company thinking they'll give Blizzard a run for the title any time soon had better run a reality check or two, and if they come out thinking they'll make it are either delusional or having some aces on their hands that I can' possibly fathom at this time.
But... we will surely have successful MMOGs coming up. Or at least I really hope so. PotBS, AoC, WAR, I think and hope they'll do well, and in my own wet dreams they all reach 500k. As will every other MMOG that comes out, but no way they'll kill WoW. Only Blizzard can possibly do that, and the way they're doing things right now it's just getting bigger and bigger.
Reasonable expectations, and a budget to go with them, please. Blizzard didn't aim and plan for 9 millions. Neither should anybody else.
You also have to understand that more than 70% of WoW's subscribers are from asia and asia minor quite a few of those subscribers being goldfarmers. WoW is one of the LEAST money related games, in the sense that gold doesn't do as much for you in WoW as most other MMORPG's. A game that currency is more valued in can acquire more Chinese subscribers since they will have more business to do.
I once again can't stress enough how Blizzard is not the only juggernaut. RTS games have usually always had less of a following than FPS or RPG games. Starcraft and Warcraft were great but they were never the kings of online gaming at any point in time other than the fact that they were popular and fun.