7.11.09 fyi America is the name of the continent. Canadians, Mexicans even cubans are also americans. United States is the name of the country. The ongoing occupation of Iraq is just a continuation of sadam's persecution against Kurd and sheite moslems. Bathest sadam from suni-arab-syria sole reason for assuming the 1968 dictatorship of Iraq was to help increase it's suni population from 8% to nearly 35% while committing genocide against the Kurds; and along the way became the payed US asset against pro-comunist sheite-Iran after Iran rebeled against the US backed overthrow of their "DEMOCRATICALLY" elected government and US enforced install of the shah dictatorship. As long as the US can try to force a sheite-suni-kurd fiasco (not much different than the jew-philistine fiasco in Yisrael) in Iraq the neverending occupation is assured. And as long as the US forces acceptance of arab-suni with persian-sheite the merging of persian-Iran and arab-Iraq back into 1935 Persia will be prevented. Much to the delight of all other suni dictatorships/monarchies in the area.
Whether the soldier agrees or disagrees with the war or his political opinion is immaterial. He is a soldier and is under obligation to do what he is told. If the soldier wants to object to the war he can do so after his service. While under the service of his country the soldier is obligated to do what he is told without question. The leaders are the ones who should be held accountable.
[Just my opinion but going AWOL in times of war is treason to me.] The internet probably knows if that's true. I'm too lazy to look. Is it less of a threat to the country to not step up at all and fight Some of us will never go willingly. If this is considered a time of war and you don't fight are you also committing acts against your country, this stuff is touchy.
I stopped being lazy:
People who are away for more than 30 days but return voluntarily or indicate a credible intent to return may still be considered AWOL, while those who are away for fewer than 30 days but can credibly be shown to have no intent to return (as by joining the armed forces of another country) may nevertheless be tried for desertion or in some rare occasions treason if enough evidence is found.
[Just my opinion but going AWOL in times of war is treason to me.] The internet probably knows if that's true. I'm too lazy to look. Is it less of a threat to the country to not step up at all and fight Some of us will never go willingly. If this is considered a time of war and you don't fight are you also committing acts against your country, this stuff is touchy.
I stopped being lazy:
People who are away for more than 30 days but return voluntarily or indicate a credible intent to return may still be considered AWOL, while those who are away for fewer than 30 days but can credibly be shown to have no intent to return (as by joining the armed forces of another country) may nevertheless be tried for desertion or in some rare occasions treason if enough evidence is found.
I've seen alot of recruiters and they definitely do try and make tons of promises to get you to join. But I have to tell you, through all of it, if YOU aren't the one asking the questions you need to ask, or being political enough to know whats going on, then you really shouldn't have a right to say or complain when things start happening.
The big problem here with this fellow is, he signed up for something, and he didn't like it, so he didn't do it. Thats the exact opposite of being a soldier. Rule number 1 is to do what your told. By not doing so, or by being "lazy" due to poor performance to many would be known in the military as a "Failure to Adjust."
Instead of doing so, this guy just didn't show up for duty which is the most Un-American thing he can do. He wouldn't even take a punishment for not taking orders, he just ran and didn't do what he was supposed to. Nothing says more about your character then how you handle yourself, and this guy handled himself like a jerk. I'd like to say I am NOT in the military, because I knew what I would be signing up for, and I didn't. I could do more with my life where I am now, doing what I'm doing now, then if I did join. I made a commitment where I am now, and I will follow it through to the end. This man made a commitment and didn't even take the punishment for not following through. Anyone who does this should be penalized to the full extent, even worse then if they did own up to it.
To all those that decide they want to flame me, just take into account that I'm pushing the fact that those in the military sign up for their duty, noone literally twists their arm. When you are 18 you are more then capable of making your own decisions, and everyone should be accountable for their own decisions right?
I don't think you have to worry about flaming this thread has been suprisingly flame free, but now that I have said this they will probably come out of the woods.
Lol that would be funny but I already posted a negative comment there and it was deleted! but that would be hilarious!
Of course it was. Because these people are always right. Or else. You look at the rest of his comments? We can't have a Negative-Nelly fudging up his wall of people kissing his ass can we?
Anywho.. wasn't there a case like this from some Hawaiian guy? Hm.. it was similar I think.. oh, I remember- He enlisted before we invaded Iraq but refused to deploy. Can't recall if they indicted him or not.
Edit: This guy. Isn't it ironic that the guy from the letter complains about Fox, and that article about the guy complaining about the same things is on Fox?
I've seen alot of recruiters and they definitely do try and make tons of promises to get you to join. But I have to tell you, through all of it, if YOU aren't the one asking the questions you need to ask, or being political enough to know whats going on, then you really shouldn't have a right to say or complain when things start happening. The big problem here with this fellow is, he signed up for something, and he didn't like it, so he didn't do it. Thats the exact opposite of being a soldier. Rule number 1 is to do what your told. By not doing so, or by being "lazy" due to poor performance to many would be known in the military as a "Failure to Adjust." Instead of doing so, this guy just didn't show up for duty which is the most Un-American thing he can do. He wouldn't even take a punishment for not taking orders, he just ran and didn't do what he was supposed to. Nothing says more about your character then how you handle yourself, and this guy handled himself like a jerk. I'd like to say I am NOT in the military, because I knew what I would be signing up for, and I didn't. I could do more with my life where I am now, doing what I'm doing now, then if I did join. I made a commitment where I am now, and I will follow it through to the end. This man made a commitment and didn't even take the punishment for not following through. Anyone who does this should be penalized to the full extent, even worse then if they did own up to it. To all those that decide they want to flame me, just take into account that I'm pushing the fact that those in the military sign up for their duty, noone literally twists their arm. When you are 18 you are more then capable of making your own decisions, and everyone should be accountable for their own decisions right?
I think it's silly to expect an 18 year old to be completely aware of todays politics and able to look through all the suggercoating, promises and lies. 18 year old are still teens, very, very young. Imo, too young to get involved in things such as a war.
If I bought into the things I was told and would find out innocent people suffer and die because of my actions, I would quit as well, no matter the consequences. No matter if the military demands you don't desert, there is also such a thing as the feeling of conscience.
Don't blame them too harshly, DeaconX. They have been programmed so thoroughly that they cannot see it, let alone get free of it. It's sad, but not very surprising.
Well that's unfortunate that he didn't read the contract he signed. Actually the military does wise people up really quick. It teaches discipline and order. You may be on aleart at any time and when in bed have to be at the airport in 1 hour wearing the proper attire. You have to be organized right down to dotting the i's and crossing the t's. I really think Israel got it right when they require every citizen to serve in the military. It really helps a person to mature.
A soldier should not be concerned about politics. Just doing his duty. When their service is over they do get special priveledges for the rest of their lives. They can buy goods at the commisary for a reduced price without taxes and they also get to use the infirmary at no charge. I thank those who have served in the military for thier service. Vets definitely have my respect providing they follow through to the end.
Sounds like this criminal signed up for the college benefits and when they said mount up we're going to Iraq he crapped his pants. Sgt. Coward is his new name.
I've seen alot of recruiters and they definitely do try and make tons of promises to get you to join. But I have to tell you, through all of it, if YOU aren't the one asking the questions you need to ask, or being political enough to know whats going on, then you really shouldn't have a right to say or complain when things start happening. The big problem here with this fellow is, he signed up for something, and he didn't like it, so he didn't do it. Thats the exact opposite of being a soldier. Rule number 1 is to do what your told. By not doing so, or by being "lazy" due to poor performance to many would be known in the military as a "Failure to Adjust." Instead of doing so, this guy just didn't show up for duty which is the most Un-American thing he can do. He wouldn't even take a punishment for not taking orders, he just ran and didn't do what he was supposed to. Nothing says more about your character then how you handle yourself, and this guy handled himself like a jerk. I'd like to say I am NOT in the military, because I knew what I would be signing up for, and I didn't. I could do more with my life where I am now, doing what I'm doing now, then if I did join. I made a commitment where I am now, and I will follow it through to the end. This man made a commitment and didn't even take the punishment for not following through. Anyone who does this should be penalized to the full extent, even worse then if they did own up to it. To all those that decide they want to flame me, just take into account that I'm pushing the fact that those in the military sign up for their duty, noone literally twists their arm. When you are 18 you are more then capable of making your own decisions, and everyone should be accountable for their own decisions right?
I think it's silly to expect an 18 year old to be completely aware of todays politics and able to look through all the suggercoating, promises and lies. 18 year old are still teens, very, very young. Imo, too young to get involved in things such as a war.
If I bought into the things I was told and would find out innocent people suffer and die because of my actions, I would quit as well, no matter the consequences. No matter if the military demands you don't desert, there is also such a thing as the feeling of conscience.
Well lets also take into account Mr. Average Joe 18 year old who thinks he's big enough to drink, and smoke and do drugs and make their own choices because they know better. I mean if they think they're so smart at 18 to put themselves in compromising situations then they should be competant enough to make their decisions regarding work - work ethics and jobs alike.
They are old enough to read the contacts they sign, and not to feel obligated to anything they haven't signed into yet, an what really gets me, eventhough I didn't join the military, my best friend did, and I told him not to, I tried to explain it to him, and he's 24 years old. Against my (and his family's) protest he joined. He had an obligation to follow through with his decision. When he didn't want to be in the Navy anymore, he took the consequences, all of them.
Now if you make a decision and you find out innocent people will be killed in the process of you fulfilling the part of your contract that YOU signed, then thats your place to do so. What gets me is, this guy thinks he can just walk away from an obligation and hide his way through life. It doesn't matter where you work, or what you do, when you have an obligation you stick to it or you suffer the consequences.
What if he was a father who decided his kids were too annoying so he wouldn't take care of them anymore? You can't just quit because you don't like things, and instead of taking care of your kids, you just walked away from the situation. Just.. didn't come home one day. Or something even closer, what if you worked for a big company and put in time to make a big presentation to get more business, but on the presentation day, you just decide never to come to work again. I mean you have people counting on you, you made an obligation...
This guy, if he was in the military has others counting on him to do his job, and when he just walks away he could cost those that counted on him alot more then some money or some ideals, it could cost someone a life.
Now take into consideration that there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps more, of people in the military doing their job. They each count on eachother for support, every one of them, and many of them probably hate what they do. The question is, if it was your Moral AND Legal obligation to keep your fellow countrymen alive in a time of war, and hundreds of people who dislike what they're doing and the reasons why they are doing it, keep at their jobs to protect the rest, then why should this one guy decide that he is so much above the rest, that he can just forget his obligation to his country, and his fellow men.
It's just common sense and it doesn't matter what country you fight for, or what job you work for, or what family you live with.
It wouldn't bother me so much if there were more penalties or this guy could bear a consequence or two, but of course he won't. I hope they deport him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
He ran out on his obligation and those who counted on him. He is trash. Good news is this is very likely to be a complete pile of shit. True or not the actions by the individual are cowardly. (besides the "speech" is full of so much idealistic speak in an attempt to make it sound significiant that its ridiculous and childish past the first few paragraphs.) Oh and then its the IVAW group a widely discredited group who has in the past promoted liars..ie Jesse MacBeth. whatever.....
If you feel that strongly about it why dont you take his place after all that defensive line now has a gap in it why dont you fill it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
It's ironic because that "oppressive military regime" is the very thing protecting his right to say this. He mentions it at the very beginning but doesn't go into detail...I wonder what his real reasons for going AWOL are. Assuming this isn't fiction written as propaganda for the website it's posted on. I'm not just going to believe he was in the military because he says so, I guess I'm just not that gullible. That said, you should know what you're getting yourself into when you join a military -- and it ain't lollipops and snow cones. EDIT: Seems he's claiming to be affiliated with IVAW ... I guess that gives him some credibility as being a soldier. Not that that means much.
I thought I knew what I was getting myself into when I joined the military and went to Iraq. I didn't though.
I was very naive and thought that I was tough enough to handle what I would see and have to do. Now I know better. And I know you guys don't know me personally and are unable to make a meaningful judgment but all I can say is that I am a relatively strong person. I can take a lot psychologically and still come out fighting. But I have become a mess lately. Since coming back I have had to finally admit to myself that something is wrong in my head. Terribly wrong. Something I am not able to understand or make sense of. It took my family to finally beat me down into asking for help.
Oh, and let me add one more thing. It's not the V.A. that is helping me so much anymore. I don't think many people know this, but there are a lot of outside sources that are stepping up to the plate to help people like me. I have become not only emotionally sick, but lately it has turned into a physical expression with terrible headaches, muscle aches and stiffness, insomnia to no end, and skin problems that include everything from eczema to a huge rash running along nerves in my legs. The V.A. has all but given up on me. In a desperate attempt to "push me off" on someone else I am being sent to Texas to an organization established by Ross Perot. He has a facility setup to help veteran's who are not receiving the help they need and who need time to heal and recover.
It's not all what you guys think. And honestly, you don't know what you're getting in to when you sign up. How could you???? By something you saw on t.v.
Please, all I can ask is don't try to pass judgment on people. Saying things like "you know what you're getting into when you sign up," to me shows nothing but naivety . I don't say that out of any hostility or to criticize, I just say it out of experience. Don't look at us who speak out and throw us to the side. There are times when I say things that I have no idea where they came from. I'm angry, sad, scared, and feel utterly helpless most of the time.
I don't know who this guy is that wrote this so I can't say anything in his personal defense, but some of the things he says ring true to my beliefs as well. I wouldn't wish what I saw or had to do on my worst enemy. I mean that!
Therre our the people who say they are shocked by what they do over there. And then there are the contradicting stories. My old teacher had two of her students come back from Iraq. They had said how the news justs hows the worst and how they are building schools and giving power to areas that never had it. So tell me why there can be such a jump in stories. Also this was just not a word story they did have pictures of what they did to help.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
It's ironic because that "oppressive military regime" is the very thing protecting his right to say this. He mentions it at the very beginning but doesn't go into detail...I wonder what his real reasons for going AWOL are. Assuming this isn't fiction written as propaganda for the website it's posted on. I'm not just going to believe he was in the military because he says so, I guess I'm just not that gullible. That said, you should know what you're getting yourself into when you join a military -- and it ain't lollipops and snow cones. EDIT: Seems he's claiming to be affiliated with IVAW ... I guess that gives him some credibility as being a soldier. Not that that means much.
I thought I knew what I was getting myself into when I joined the military and went to Iraq. I didn't though.
I was very naive and thought that I was tough enough to handle what I would see and have to do. Now I know better. And I know you guys don't know me personally and are unable to make a meaningful judgment but all I can say is that I am a relatively strong person. I can take a lot psychologically and still come out fighting. But I have become a mess lately. Since coming back I have had to finally admit to myself that something is wrong in my head. Terribly wrong. Something I am not able to understand or make sense of. It took my family to finally beat me down into asking for help.
Oh, and let me add one more thing. It's not the V.A. that is helping me so much anymore. I don't think many people know this, but there are a lot of outside sources that are stepping up to the plate to help people like me. I have become not only emotionally sick, but lately it has turned into a physical expression with terrible headaches, muscle aches and stiffness, insomnia to no end, and skin problems that include everything from eczema to a huge rash running along nerves in my legs. The V.A. has all but given up on me. In a desperate attempt to "push me off" on someone else I am being sent to Texas to an organization established by Ross Perot. He has a facility setup to help veteran's who are not receiving the help they need and who need time to heal and recover.
It's not all what you guys think. And honestly, you don't know what you're getting in to when you sign up. How could you???? By something you saw on t.v.
Please, all I can ask is don't try to pass judgment on people. Saying things like "you know what you're getting into when you sign up," to me shows nothing but naivety . I don't say that out of any hostility or to criticize, I just say it out of experience. Don't look at us who speak out and throw us to the side. There are times when I say things that I have no idea where they came from. I'm angry, sad, scared, and feel utterly helpless most of the time.
I don't know who this guy is that wrote this so I can't say anything in his personal defense, but some of the things he says ring true to my beliefs as well. I wouldn't wish what I saw or had to do on my worst enemy. I mean that!
I'm sorry to hear that you are having so many problems. Psychologically when you run into issues like this it can cause physical problems if you don't get mental help as well. I'm not saying that to be mean I'm just saying it because I understand what stress - mental stress in particular - can do to ones body.
I completely agree that you did things that you didn't want to do, and you wouldn't wish those things on anyone. I totally understand and agree with you there. But what people aren't completely understanding when they sign up, is they lose their right to complain. They lose their rights, basically. I knew that, and that's why I didn't sign. My best friend wasn't so lucky, he thought he would still be able to hang out with friends all day on his ship, and meet tons of cool people.
I'm trying to push the issue that with all these kids going into the military, they use very little brainwork to get there. Many of them go against the wishes of the people who care about them. And what really gets me, is alot of them bitch about how they hate it so much, and then re-enlist when the time comes.
So when people sign their contracts and get sworn in, and don't understand what it means to take orders and fulfill them to the end, then they obviously shouldn't have signed up in the first place.
To break it down just a little bit for the current situation, if this guy KNEW he was joining the military and that he would have to fulfill all his orders and go to war if our country ever went to war (supposing he joined before the war) but when war time came he decided he didn't agree with it, then that is the direct opposite of being a soldier.
Also keep in mind I have a lot of respect for our military because of what they do. The reason I don't do it. I just think its a real cowards way out, to run so you don't take punishment for not doing something you are obligated to do. I don't care if the guy has problems and doesn't want to do it, I think he should just pay the price for it.
It's ironic because that "oppressive military regime" is the very thing protecting his right to say this. He mentions it at the very beginning but doesn't go into detail...I wonder what his real reasons for going AWOL are. Assuming this isn't fiction written as propaganda for the website it's posted on. I'm not just going to believe he was in the military because he says so, I guess I'm just not that gullible. That said, you should know what you're getting yourself into when you join a military -- and it ain't lollipops and snow cones. EDIT: Seems he's claiming to be affiliated with IVAW ... I guess that gives him some credibility as being a soldier. Not that that means much.
I thought I knew what I was getting myself into when I joined the military and went to Iraq. I didn't though.
I was very naive and thought that I was tough enough to handle what I would see and have to do. Now I know better. And I know you guys don't know me personally and are unable to make a meaningful judgment but all I can say is that I am a relatively strong person. I can take a lot psychologically and still come out fighting. But I have become a mess lately. Since coming back I have had to finally admit to myself that something is wrong in my head. Terribly wrong. Something I am not able to understand or make sense of. It took my family to finally beat me down into asking for help.
Oh, and let me add one more thing. It's not the V.A. that is helping me so much anymore. I don't think many people know this, but there are a lot of outside sources that are stepping up to the plate to help people like me. I have become not only emotionally sick, but lately it has turned into a physical expression with terrible headaches, muscle aches and stiffness, insomnia to no end, and skin problems that include everything from eczema to a huge rash running along nerves in my legs. The V.A. has all but given up on me. In a desperate attempt to "push me off" on someone else I am being sent to Texas to an organization established by Ross Perot. He has a facility setup to help veteran's who are not receiving the help they need and who need time to heal and recover.
It's not all what you guys think. And honestly, you don't know what you're getting in to when you sign up. How could you???? By something you saw on t.v.
Please, all I can ask is don't try to pass judgment on people. Saying things like "you know what you're getting into when you sign up," to me shows nothing but naivety . I don't say that out of any hostility or to criticize, I just say it out of experience. Don't look at us who speak out and throw us to the side. There are times when I say things that I have no idea where they came from. I'm angry, sad, scared, and feel utterly helpless most of the time.
I don't know who this guy is that wrote this so I can't say anything in his personal defense, but some of the things he says ring true to my beliefs as well. I wouldn't wish what I saw or had to do on my worst enemy. I mean that!
You seem to be one of the few people on this site who say sane things. I hope you get well soon and start feeling better.
It seems reading some peoples posts that they have a huge case of the Mr. Bigshot's. I haven't served in the military or even been anywhere near death (other than animals) so I can't begin to speak about it. My sister almost died a while back and I remember just feeling this strange dreamlike way the whole time. Almost like I couldn't believe it was happening and reality would be back soon if I just waited. For it to have really happened I can't begin to imagine.
I think there's just a lot of people on these forums who are full of themselves and have a lack of skill when it comes to empathy There is a real positiveness in stoicism. But some guys get an attempt at being stoic mixed up with just being callous. They're not the same things at all.
I am really sorry this happened to you Gnome. I have a friend who fought in Vietnam 40 years ago and it still haunts him. He thinks he killed the enemy when he didn't have to. He was the mechanic and his group was under fire so he shot back. And no matter what anyone tells him he has nightmares every night. I never had to go through this so I don't fully understand. But I can imagine it must be hell. What bothers me is that the government seems to abandon the vets when it is convenient to do so. I am glad you are receiving help. Obviously many of those who serve are going to need more extensive care and will support that effort. I think the least I can do is write my congressmen and watch more closely for the candidates who understand the horrors of war. Those who serve their country need to be one of the highest priorities.
Everyone who reads this post should take the time to look at the rest of DeaconX's posts, seems like he has an insesant need to post anti-american crap on this websites off topic forums. IF this guy was ever a member of the armed forces I just thank god that most men and women who sign up are made of better stuff than he is. The very organization he rips defends his right to express himself freely the way he is.
I am not at all anti-american... the fact that you see it that way saddens me. But I'm also not a blindly patriotic lemming brainwashed to cheer on a government regime that is quite literally RAPING the American ideology the nation was built upon.
THAT is not patriotic... that's blind loyalty.
I'm not burning American flags, I'm not protesting to destroy America... if you're not aware of what's going on, sorry for you. Get with it. Start thinking critically and just basically, start paying attention.
I LOVE what America CAN stand for. And it's by far not the only nation with problems hell there are nations in much worse shape. America has great potential but it IS the superpower of the world and because I do care about the world I live in, I care about what happens to America.
So is it ProAmerican to let things slip including freedoms? Guess I got the constitution all wrong.
DeaconX
i sincerely wish that everyone in the US could look at the big picture this well
He served 6 years. You only need to serve 1 in the Army. So he really hasn't committed any crimes even by Army Standards. Also he left before the 6 months were added to the Armies required serve time.
Still thats why I didn't join the army. You don't have a choice in who you attack, where your deployed, and the orders your given.
To echo some of what Gnome said: no one really knows what they're getting into when they join up. Some people *think* they know, and, to be honest, some people do indeed have a pretty good idea. But, no matter if you are a military brat, a spouse, or someone who went to some sort of military prep school, nothing can prepare you for being in the real military. Furthermore, no one who has been in the military can describe perfectly what it is like, we can only approximate it.
The government's enlistment efforts are almost wholely aimed at teens. Not because teens are healthier or because they're smarter, but because they're ignorant, and very few of them realize it. They are prepared to absorb as God's Honest Truth what they're told. Their supposed cynicism is a mile wide but an inch deep, and recruiters know well how to exploit it, how to play up to their self-image as young macho studs. If anything, I think the age for enlistment (and voting) should be raised to 21, but that's an argument for a different place.
Bottom line: you DO NOT really know what you're getting into when you sign up. Some people just *think* they do, and recruiters do all they can to reinforce that belief.
Comments
Whether the soldier agrees or disagrees with the war or his political opinion is immaterial. He is a soldier and is under obligation to do what he is told. If the soldier wants to object to the war he can do so after his service. While under the service of his country the soldier is obligated to do what he is told without question. The leaders are the ones who should be held accountable.
I stopped being lazy:
People who are away for more than 30 days but return voluntarily or indicate a credible intent to return may still be considered AWOL, while those who are away for fewer than 30 days but can credibly be shown to have no intent to return (as by joining the armed forces of another country) may nevertheless be tried for desertion or in some rare occasions treason if enough evidence is found.
got it from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#Absent_Without_.28Official.29_Leave
I stopped being lazy:
People who are away for more than 30 days but return voluntarily or indicate a credible intent to return may still be considered AWOL, while those who are away for fewer than 30 days but can credibly be shown to have no intent to return (as by joining the armed forces of another country) may nevertheless be tried for desertion or in some rare occasions treason if enough evidence is found.
got it from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertion#Absent_Without_.28Official.29_Leave
You should post that in the comments section of the link and make a countdown to 30 days lolThey have probably been gone longer tho to say the stuff about rallying and staying public.
Lol that would be funny but I already posted a negative comment there and it was deleted! but that would be hilarious!
I've seen alot of recruiters and they definitely do try and make tons of promises to get you to join. But I have to tell you, through all of it, if YOU aren't the one asking the questions you need to ask, or being political enough to know whats going on, then you really shouldn't have a right to say or complain when things start happening.
The big problem here with this fellow is, he signed up for something, and he didn't like it, so he didn't do it. Thats the exact opposite of being a soldier. Rule number 1 is to do what your told. By not doing so, or by being "lazy" due to poor performance to many would be known in the military as a "Failure to Adjust."
Instead of doing so, this guy just didn't show up for duty which is the most Un-American thing he can do. He wouldn't even take a punishment for not taking orders, he just ran and didn't do what he was supposed to. Nothing says more about your character then how you handle yourself, and this guy handled himself like a jerk. I'd like to say I am NOT in the military, because I knew what I would be signing up for, and I didn't. I could do more with my life where I am now, doing what I'm doing now, then if I did join. I made a commitment where I am now, and I will follow it through to the end. This man made a commitment and didn't even take the punishment for not following through. Anyone who does this should be penalized to the full extent, even worse then if they did own up to it.
To all those that decide they want to flame me, just take into account that I'm pushing the fact that those in the military sign up for their duty, noone literally twists their arm. When you are 18 you are more then capable of making your own decisions, and everyone should be accountable for their own decisions right?
To Maskedweasel:
I don't think you have to worry about flaming this thread has been suprisingly flame free, but now that I have said this they will probably come out of the woods.
Its always good to keep my bases covered though
Of course it was. Because these people are always right. Or else. You look at the rest of his comments? We can't have a Negative-Nelly fudging up his wall of people kissing his ass can we?
Anywho.. wasn't there a case like this from some Hawaiian guy? Hm.. it was similar I think.. oh, I remember- He enlisted before we invaded Iraq but refused to deploy. Can't recall if they indicted him or not.
Edit: This guy. Isn't it ironic that the guy from the letter complains about Fox, and that article about the guy complaining about the same things is on Fox?
I think it's silly to expect an 18 year old to be completely aware of todays politics and able to look through all the suggercoating, promises and lies. 18 year old are still teens, very, very young. Imo, too young to get involved in things such as a war.
If I bought into the things I was told and would find out innocent people suffer and die because of my actions, I would quit as well, no matter the consequences. No matter if the military demands you don't desert, there is also such a thing as the feeling of conscience.
Don't blame them too harshly, DeaconX. They have been programmed so thoroughly that they cannot see it, let alone get free of it. It's sad, but not very surprising.
Well that's unfortunate that he didn't read the contract he signed. Actually the military does wise people up really quick. It teaches discipline and order. You may be on aleart at any time and when in bed have to be at the airport in 1 hour wearing the proper attire. You have to be organized right down to dotting the i's and crossing the t's. I really think Israel got it right when they require every citizen to serve in the military. It really helps a person to mature.
A soldier should not be concerned about politics. Just doing his duty. When their service is over they do get special priveledges for the rest of their lives. They can buy goods at the commisary for a reduced price without taxes and they also get to use the infirmary at no charge. I thank those who have served in the military for thier service. Vets definitely have my respect providing they follow through to the end.
Sounds like this criminal signed up for the college benefits and when they said mount up we're going to Iraq he crapped his pants. Sgt. Coward is his new name.
I think it's silly to expect an 18 year old to be completely aware of todays politics and able to look through all the suggercoating, promises and lies. 18 year old are still teens, very, very young. Imo, too young to get involved in things such as a war.
If I bought into the things I was told and would find out innocent people suffer and die because of my actions, I would quit as well, no matter the consequences. No matter if the military demands you don't desert, there is also such a thing as the feeling of conscience.
Well lets also take into account Mr. Average Joe 18 year old who thinks he's big enough to drink, and smoke and do drugs and make their own choices because they know better. I mean if they think they're so smart at 18 to put themselves in compromising situations then they should be competant enough to make their decisions regarding work - work ethics and jobs alike.
They are old enough to read the contacts they sign, and not to feel obligated to anything they haven't signed into yet, an what really gets me, eventhough I didn't join the military, my best friend did, and I told him not to, I tried to explain it to him, and he's 24 years old. Against my (and his family's) protest he joined. He had an obligation to follow through with his decision. When he didn't want to be in the Navy anymore, he took the consequences, all of them.
Now if you make a decision and you find out innocent people will be killed in the process of you fulfilling the part of your contract that YOU signed, then thats your place to do so. What gets me is, this guy thinks he can just walk away from an obligation and hide his way through life. It doesn't matter where you work, or what you do, when you have an obligation you stick to it or you suffer the consequences.
What if he was a father who decided his kids were too annoying so he wouldn't take care of them anymore? You can't just quit because you don't like things, and instead of taking care of your kids, you just walked away from the situation. Just.. didn't come home one day. Or something even closer, what if you worked for a big company and put in time to make a big presentation to get more business, but on the presentation day, you just decide never to come to work again. I mean you have people counting on you, you made an obligation...
This guy, if he was in the military has others counting on him to do his job, and when he just walks away he could cost those that counted on him alot more then some money or some ideals, it could cost someone a life.
Now take into consideration that there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps more, of people in the military doing their job. They each count on eachother for support, every one of them, and many of them probably hate what they do. The question is, if it was your Moral AND Legal obligation to keep your fellow countrymen alive in a time of war, and hundreds of people who dislike what they're doing and the reasons why they are doing it, keep at their jobs to protect the rest, then why should this one guy decide that he is so much above the rest, that he can just forget his obligation to his country, and his fellow men.
It's just common sense and it doesn't matter what country you fight for, or what job you work for, or what family you live with.
It wouldn't bother me so much if there were more penalties or this guy could bear a consequence or two, but of course he won't. I hope they deport him.
He's not only AWOL he's a deserter. Good riddance and he deserves what he gets imo.
Erm those are the same thing are they not?
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
If you feel that strongly about it why dont you take his place after all that defensive line now has a gap in it why dont you fill it?
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
I was very naive and thought that I was tough enough to handle what I would see and have to do. Now I know better. And I know you guys don't know me personally and are unable to make a meaningful judgment but all I can say is that I am a relatively strong person. I can take a lot psychologically and still come out fighting. But I have become a mess lately. Since coming back I have had to finally admit to myself that something is wrong in my head. Terribly wrong. Something I am not able to understand or make sense of. It took my family to finally beat me down into asking for help.
Oh, and let me add one more thing. It's not the V.A. that is helping me so much anymore. I don't think many people know this, but there are a lot of outside sources that are stepping up to the plate to help people like me. I have become not only emotionally sick, but lately it has turned into a physical expression with terrible headaches, muscle aches and stiffness, insomnia to no end, and skin problems that include everything from eczema to a huge rash running along nerves in my legs. The V.A. has all but given up on me. In a desperate attempt to "push me off" on someone else I am being sent to Texas to an organization established by Ross Perot. He has a facility setup to help veteran's who are not receiving the help they need and who need time to heal and recover.
It's not all what you guys think. And honestly, you don't know what you're getting in to when you sign up. How could you???? By something you saw on t.v.
Please, all I can ask is don't try to pass judgment on people. Saying things like "you know what you're getting into when you sign up," to me shows nothing but naivety . I don't say that out of any hostility or to criticize, I just say it out of experience. Don't look at us who speak out and throw us to the side. There are times when I say things that I have no idea where they came from. I'm angry, sad, scared, and feel utterly helpless most of the time.
I don't know who this guy is that wrote this so I can't say anything in his personal defense, but some of the things he says ring true to my beliefs as well. I wouldn't wish what I saw or had to do on my worst enemy. I mean that!
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Therre our the people who say they are shocked by what they do over there. And then there are the contradicting stories. My old teacher had two of her students come back from Iraq. They had said how the news justs hows the worst and how they are building schools and giving power to areas that never had it. So tell me why there can be such a jump in stories. Also this was just not a word story they did have pictures of what they did to help.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I got military recruiters to stop calling me when I said I was to much of a patriot to serve an unconstitutional govt.
probably on someones watch list now as well. hopefully I don't need to buy fertilizer anytime soon.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I was very naive and thought that I was tough enough to handle what I would see and have to do. Now I know better. And I know you guys don't know me personally and are unable to make a meaningful judgment but all I can say is that I am a relatively strong person. I can take a lot psychologically and still come out fighting. But I have become a mess lately. Since coming back I have had to finally admit to myself that something is wrong in my head. Terribly wrong. Something I am not able to understand or make sense of. It took my family to finally beat me down into asking for help.
Oh, and let me add one more thing. It's not the V.A. that is helping me so much anymore. I don't think many people know this, but there are a lot of outside sources that are stepping up to the plate to help people like me. I have become not only emotionally sick, but lately it has turned into a physical expression with terrible headaches, muscle aches and stiffness, insomnia to no end, and skin problems that include everything from eczema to a huge rash running along nerves in my legs. The V.A. has all but given up on me. In a desperate attempt to "push me off" on someone else I am being sent to Texas to an organization established by Ross Perot. He has a facility setup to help veteran's who are not receiving the help they need and who need time to heal and recover.
It's not all what you guys think. And honestly, you don't know what you're getting in to when you sign up. How could you???? By something you saw on t.v.
Please, all I can ask is don't try to pass judgment on people. Saying things like "you know what you're getting into when you sign up," to me shows nothing but naivety . I don't say that out of any hostility or to criticize, I just say it out of experience. Don't look at us who speak out and throw us to the side. There are times when I say things that I have no idea where they came from. I'm angry, sad, scared, and feel utterly helpless most of the time.
I don't know who this guy is that wrote this so I can't say anything in his personal defense, but some of the things he says ring true to my beliefs as well. I wouldn't wish what I saw or had to do on my worst enemy. I mean that!
I'm sorry to hear that you are having so many problems. Psychologically when you run into issues like this it can cause physical problems if you don't get mental help as well. I'm not saying that to be mean I'm just saying it because I understand what stress - mental stress in particular - can do to ones body.
I completely agree that you did things that you didn't want to do, and you wouldn't wish those things on anyone. I totally understand and agree with you there. But what people aren't completely understanding when they sign up, is they lose their right to complain. They lose their rights, basically. I knew that, and that's why I didn't sign. My best friend wasn't so lucky, he thought he would still be able to hang out with friends all day on his ship, and meet tons of cool people.
I'm trying to push the issue that with all these kids going into the military, they use very little brainwork to get there. Many of them go against the wishes of the people who care about them. And what really gets me, is alot of them bitch about how they hate it so much, and then re-enlist when the time comes.
So when people sign their contracts and get sworn in, and don't understand what it means to take orders and fulfill them to the end, then they obviously shouldn't have signed up in the first place.
To break it down just a little bit for the current situation, if this guy KNEW he was joining the military and that he would have to fulfill all his orders and go to war if our country ever went to war (supposing he joined before the war) but when war time came he decided he didn't agree with it, then that is the direct opposite of being a soldier.
Also keep in mind I have a lot of respect for our military because of what they do. The reason I don't do it. I just think its a real cowards way out, to run so you don't take punishment for not doing something you are obligated to do. I don't care if the guy has problems and doesn't want to do it, I think he should just pay the price for it.
I thought I knew what I was getting myself into when I joined the military and went to Iraq. I didn't though.I was very naive and thought that I was tough enough to handle what I would see and have to do. Now I know better. And I know you guys don't know me personally and are unable to make a meaningful judgment but all I can say is that I am a relatively strong person. I can take a lot psychologically and still come out fighting. But I have become a mess lately. Since coming back I have had to finally admit to myself that something is wrong in my head. Terribly wrong. Something I am not able to understand or make sense of. It took my family to finally beat me down into asking for help.
Oh, and let me add one more thing. It's not the V.A. that is helping me so much anymore. I don't think many people know this, but there are a lot of outside sources that are stepping up to the plate to help people like me. I have become not only emotionally sick, but lately it has turned into a physical expression with terrible headaches, muscle aches and stiffness, insomnia to no end, and skin problems that include everything from eczema to a huge rash running along nerves in my legs. The V.A. has all but given up on me. In a desperate attempt to "push me off" on someone else I am being sent to Texas to an organization established by Ross Perot. He has a facility setup to help veteran's who are not receiving the help they need and who need time to heal and recover.
It's not all what you guys think. And honestly, you don't know what you're getting in to when you sign up. How could you???? By something you saw on t.v.
Please, all I can ask is don't try to pass judgment on people. Saying things like "you know what you're getting into when you sign up," to me shows nothing but naivety . I don't say that out of any hostility or to criticize, I just say it out of experience. Don't look at us who speak out and throw us to the side. There are times when I say things that I have no idea where they came from. I'm angry, sad, scared, and feel utterly helpless most of the time.
I don't know who this guy is that wrote this so I can't say anything in his personal defense, but some of the things he says ring true to my beliefs as well. I wouldn't wish what I saw or had to do on my worst enemy. I mean that!
You seem to be one of the few people on this site who say sane things. I hope you get well soon and start feeling better.
It seems reading some peoples posts that they have a huge case of the Mr. Bigshot's. I haven't served in the military or even been anywhere near death (other than animals) so I can't begin to speak about it. My sister almost died a while back and I remember just feeling this strange dreamlike way the whole time. Almost like I couldn't believe it was happening and reality would be back soon if I just waited. For it to have really happened I can't begin to imagine.
I think there's just a lot of people on these forums who are full of themselves and have a lack of skill when it comes to empathy There is a real positiveness in stoicism. But some guys get an attempt at being stoic mixed up with just being callous. They're not the same things at all.
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All Rights Reversed
I am really sorry this happened to you Gnome. I have a friend who fought in Vietnam 40 years ago and it still haunts him. He thinks he killed the enemy when he didn't have to. He was the mechanic and his group was under fire so he shot back. And no matter what anyone tells him he has nightmares every night. I never had to go through this so I don't fully understand. But I can imagine it must be hell. What bothers me is that the government seems to abandon the vets when it is convenient to do so. I am glad you are receiving help. Obviously many of those who serve are going to need more extensive care and will support that effort. I think the least I can do is write my congressmen and watch more closely for the candidates who understand the horrors of war. Those who serve their country need to be one of the highest priorities.
I am not at all anti-american... the fact that you see it that way saddens me. But I'm also not a blindly patriotic lemming brainwashed to cheer on a government regime that is quite literally RAPING the American ideology the nation was built upon.
THAT is not patriotic... that's blind loyalty.
I'm not burning American flags, I'm not protesting to destroy America... if you're not aware of what's going on, sorry for you. Get with it. Start thinking critically and just basically, start paying attention.
I LOVE what America CAN stand for. And it's by far not the only nation with problems hell there are nations in much worse shape. America has great potential but it IS the superpower of the world and because I do care about the world I live in, I care about what happens to America.
So is it ProAmerican to let things slip including freedoms? Guess I got the constitution all wrong.
DeaconXi sincerely wish that everyone in the US could look at the big picture this well
He served 6 years. You only need to serve 1 in the Army. So he really hasn't committed any crimes even by Army Standards. Also he left before the 6 months were added to the Armies required serve time.
Still thats why I didn't join the army. You don't have a choice in who you attack, where your deployed, and the orders your given.
To echo some of what Gnome said: no one really knows what they're getting into when they join up. Some people *think* they know, and, to be honest, some people do indeed have a pretty good idea. But, no matter if you are a military brat, a spouse, or someone who went to some sort of military prep school, nothing can prepare you for being in the real military. Furthermore, no one who has been in the military can describe perfectly what it is like, we can only approximate it.
The government's enlistment efforts are almost wholely aimed at teens. Not because teens are healthier or because they're smarter, but because they're ignorant, and very few of them realize it. They are prepared to absorb as God's Honest Truth what they're told. Their supposed cynicism is a mile wide but an inch deep, and recruiters know well how to exploit it, how to play up to their self-image as young macho studs. If anything, I think the age for enlistment (and voting) should be raised to 21, but that's an argument for a different place.
Bottom line: you DO NOT really know what you're getting into when you sign up. Some people just *think* they do, and recruiters do all they can to reinforce that belief.