So I see that the screen writers are staying active while on strike...that is good to know. ahahahaha comic gold! As for the topic... a lot of the stuff they mention is why lots of us don't want to be in the military to begin with. We mention the stuff and it means nothing, let it come from a veteran and it gets press - go figure. Dunno about you guys but to DIE for something I need to believe in the cause and I just don't for this war. I think American leaders toss their weight around in other countries and are grasping at straws trying to remove all terrorists on the planet by taxing our countries economy and the result will be... ya continued trash talk about american policy, no one will appreciate it if it works. We need to look at some of our own issues internally like outsourcing our citizens into a jobless state or reduced wages, the cost of college even tho it has become mandatory, homeless folks that can't get help, our prison system being overwhelmed, welfare still existing tho the depression is OVER yet it's ok to just breed for money and they even give earned income credit on taxes for it. Teenagers know that the government will pay for it if they get knocked up, the milk, the hospital bill, the vitamins, continued healthcare. They instigate these losers to keep breeding maybe hoping that if they are uneducated enough they can use them for troops just by wagging a flag and telling them "good ol boys love their nation". My brother got kicked out of the navy because he was so lazy, wouldn't get up for his watch etc. His commander even sent my mother a letter asking him to straighten up, she could only reply, I'm his mother but he's an adult - he won't listen to me. He went in because of the lies they told him about education expenses paid. He quit smoking to go in healthy. Then when he got to Japan they were so bored, he started smoking again. Sure, they will pay for you to go to their study programs but you don't get to chose your training. He wanted to go for engineering, they put him into a warfare program on ship control because they said they put you in what you tests show you to be proficient at. Now I don't know how marketable that would be in the real world on a resume. I know what buttons to press to shoot missiles. Anyway, once they removed him, they wanted all the money back for the training and have started garnishing his wages for it.
No offense intended but if your post was intended to make the navy look bad, It really only succeeded in making your brother look bad. The navy needs to function is they just allowed everyone to pick a job don't you think everyone would pick engineer or doctor or something they could make a load of money with after discharge. They give you G.I. money after your discharge to train your self with real world skills, your brother was unable to make it to that point, and frankly as a tax payer and am glad he is being held financial accountable.
I also am sorry to inform you that the so called lies about post service education are not lies. I have three friends now and many in the past who have taken advantage of the G.I. bill.
I never claimed he was a saint. But there were untruths imparted to him. I recognize he wasn't good at the job and deserved to be let go but his unhappiness stemmed from their deception. As for paying back the money, that was small print in the contract people don't read - something to the effect of if you aren't here x years you owe us your training cost back. It would hurt less if he had got training that he could take into the real world is the point. He was told he could choose his area of study then was told a different story by a different dept. The fact that commander could not control him and was petitioning his MOTHER to control him from across the world shows some incompetency in his leadership. That's nice that your friends were treated fairly but all aren't. Once you are in, you don't get the choice of where they put you or what happens is the jist, they can tell you anything to get you to sign just like any job that makes promises they don't put in writing.
I don't understand either why welfare recipients aren't forced to pay back the money they used myself but that's offtopic eh
I have to comment.
1. It does not matter what part of the US military one is stationed in. Just by HAVING being in the military on ones resume, (with an honorable discharge) is an incredible enhancement. It means nothing that he was given a position that was not directly related to what he wanted to later seek in the civilian world.
2. His commanding officier's attempt to contect his mother was an attempt at giving him a SECOND CHANCE. I agree this was beyond his commanding officier's job description. It was a judgement call, and made for the reason that the commanding officier saw him THROWING AWAY an incredible oppertunity, and was trying to find anyway to give him an incentive to get the job done.
3. Before anyone signs any contract - mortgage, college scholarship, car loan - one always reads the fine print. Yes the military paid for his training. But guess who pays for the military? Other American taxpayers. You are darn right he should be held accountable for coming up short on his end.
4. ALL he had to do was continuing being a MAN! Serve out the contract he signed. Perform his job to the best of his ability. THEN when he finally got out, he could then use his advance rank, his honerable discharge, to almost 100% get any job he wanted..... after using his G.I. bill to train for it.
There are tooooooooo many stories, cases, of former soldiers, getting an honerable discharge, using their G.I. bill money to train in whatever is their field of intrest - then getting that job - even though it had NOTHING to do with their station while in the military. Tank drivers who become bankers. Air force pilots who become judges. Infantrymen who become truck drivers. Parachutists (sp) who become computer programmers.
Last, technically, no matter what job, what military station, one has, one can easily use SOMETHING about it as a boost to get any job. Lets take your example:
- You claim he was stationed on a ship, just pushing buttons? But his life dream was being an engineer?
- Alright, it's soo simple. He gets out, uses the G.I. bill to train in the field of engineering. He then goes for a job interview. He puts down that he was in the military, and had an honerable discharge.
What does his station in the miltary have to do with engineering, his interviewer asks? "I understand I will have to follow orders precisely (sp) since engineering is a very precise field. I can tell you for a fact, while stationed, I gained years of experience following orders precisely." he could respond.
He could mention, "During my military career, I was reponsible for other people. I understand if you higher me, and give me promotions, I will be responsible for other people. I can tell you for a fact I have years of experience being responsible for other people. Here are my refrences who can attest to this fact (he then lists all his commanding officers.)".
'I agree with Cabe. Once you graduate from college and get a job, a serious girlfriend or wife and maybe even have a kid, there is little chance you're going to join the military. How many people do you know drop everything and switch to a totally different career like that? Especially to a career like the military? I'm sure the army would rather recruit 22-26 year olds instead of 18-22 year olds simply because of the maturity, but they can't.'
Has it occurred to you that we could *both* be right? Things not always done for only one reason. Furthermore, different people might be doing the same thing, but for different reasons. Definitely people *join* the military for different reasons, so it shouldn't be hard to believe that the government has multiple reasons as to why they aim their recruiting efforts the way they do.
So I see that the screen writers are staying active while on strike...that is good to know. ahahahaha comic gold! As for the topic... a lot of the stuff they mention is why lots of us don't want to be in the military to begin with. We mention the stuff and it means nothing, let it come from a veteran and it gets press - go figure. Dunno about you guys but to DIE for something I need to believe in the cause and I just don't for this war. I think American leaders toss their weight around in other countries and are grasping at straws trying to remove all terrorists on the planet by taxing our countries economy and the result will be... ya continued trash talk about american policy, no one will appreciate it if it works. We need to look at some of our own issues internally like outsourcing our citizens into a jobless state or reduced wages, the cost of college even tho it has become mandatory, homeless folks that can't get help, our prison system being overwhelmed, welfare still existing tho the depression is OVER yet it's ok to just breed for money and they even give earned income credit on taxes for it. Teenagers know that the government will pay for it if they get knocked up, the milk, the hospital bill, the vitamins, continued healthcare. They instigate these losers to keep breeding maybe hoping that if they are uneducated enough they can use them for troops just by wagging a flag and telling them "good ol boys love their nation". My brother got kicked out of the navy because he was so lazy, wouldn't get up for his watch etc. His commander even sent my mother a letter asking him to straighten up, she could only reply, I'm his mother but he's an adult - he won't listen to me. He went in because of the lies they told him about education expenses paid. He quit smoking to go in healthy. Then when he got to Japan they were so bored, he started smoking again. Sure, they will pay for you to go to their study programs but you don't get to chose your training. He wanted to go for engineering, they put him into a warfare program on ship control because they said they put you in what you tests show you to be proficient at. Now I don't know how marketable that would be in the real world on a resume. I know what buttons to press to shoot missiles. Anyway, once they removed him, they wanted all the money back for the training and have started garnishing his wages for it.
No offense intended but if your post was intended to make the navy look bad, It really only succeeded in making your brother look bad. The navy needs to function is they just allowed everyone to pick a job don't you think everyone would pick engineer or doctor or something they could make a load of money with after discharge. They give you G.I. money after your discharge to train your self with real world skills, your brother was unable to make it to that point, and frankly as a tax payer and am glad he is being held financial accountable.
I also am sorry to inform you that the so called lies about post service education are not lies. I have three friends now and many in the past who have taken advantage of the G.I. bill.
I never claimed he was a saint. But there were untruths imparted to him. I recognize he wasn't good at the job and deserved to be let go but his unhappiness stemmed from their deception. As for paying back the money, that was small print in the contract people don't read - something to the effect of if you aren't here x years you owe us your training cost back. It would hurt less if he had got training that he could take into the real world is the point. He was told he could choose his area of study then was told a different story by a different dept. The fact that commander could not control him and was petitioning his MOTHER to control him from across the world shows some incompetency in his leadership. That's nice that your friends were treated fairly but all aren't. Once you are in, you don't get the choice of where they put you or what happens is the jist, they can tell you anything to get you to sign just like any job that makes promises they don't put in writing.
I don't understand either why welfare recipients aren't forced to pay back the money they used myself but that's offtopic eh
I have to comment.
1. It does not matter what part of the US military one is stationed in. Just by HAVING being in the military on ones resume, (with an honorable discharge) is an incredible enhancement. It means nothing that he was given a position that was not directly related to what he wanted to later seek in the civilian world.
2. His commanding officier's attempt to contect his mother was an attempt at giving him a SECOND CHANCE. I agree this was beyond his commanding officier's job description. It was a judgement call, and made for the reason that the commanding officier saw him THROWING AWAY an incredible oppertunity, and was trying to find anyway to give him an incentive to get the job done.
3. Before anyone signs any contract - mortgage, college scholarship, car loan - one always reads the fine print. Yes the military paid for his training. But guess who pays for the military? Other American taxpayers. You are darn right he should be held accountable for coming up short on his end.
4. ALL he had to do was continuing being a MAN! Serve out the contract he signed. Perform his job to the best of his ability. THEN when he finally got out, he could then use his advance rank, his honerable discharge, to almost 100% get any job he wanted..... after using his G.I. bill to train for it.
There are tooooooooo many stories, cases, of former soldiers, getting an honerable discharge, using their G.I. bill money to train in whatever is their field of intrest - then getting that job - even though it had NOTHING to do with their station while in the military. Tank drivers who become bankers. Air force pilots who become judges. Infantrymen who become truck drivers. Parachutists (sp) who become computer programmers.
Last, technically, no matter what job, what military station, one has, one can easily use SOMETHING about it as a boost to get any job. Lets take your example:
- You claim he was stationed on a ship, just pushing buttons? But his life dream was being an engineer?
- Alright, it's soo simple. He gets out, uses the G.I. bill to train in the field of engineering. He then goes for a job interview. He puts down that he was in the military, and had an honerable discharge.
What does his station in the miltary have to do with engineering, his interviewer asks? "I understand I will have to follow orders precisely (sp) since engineering is a very precise field. I can tell you for a fact, while stationed, I gained years of experience following orders precisely." he could respond.
He could mention, "During my military career, I was reponsible for other people. I understand if you higher me, and give me promotions, I will be responsible for other people. I can tell you for a fact I have years of experience being responsible for other people. Here are my refrences who can attest to this fact (he then lists all his commanding officers.)".
Let me give you some backstory about "manning up". He was a supporter of serving in the armed forces since high school. He had our mother petition the court for money from his trust to attend carson long military institute with his own money. He read about weapons, war history, and leaders in the field. One of the books he kept trying to push on me was about G. Patton. He was great at math and breezed through calculus. He was committed to his service. He seeked it out. He stopped smoking and worked out daily in preparation for his service. There was no step he didn't take to "man up" for the job. He left with his entire family saying no, don't. He took the crap from us telling him he was risking his life for nothing with a slap happy president in office. His fiancee threatened to break up with him if he left. She didn't but he went anyway. He spent 2 years in service. He was on the Uss John McCain during the start of the iraq trouble and they were involved. I know the earnest he went in with. I know how much planning he put into it. I know he didn't want to fail, he built himself up to do this for some time. It's all irrelevant now. Since this ordeal, he has attended school and is now an auto mechanic. He has put the navy experience behind him. I don't particularly like seeing folks speak about him as if he just decided one day to go be a hero and was a loser with no ambition that just couldn't perform so I learned not to share real life here, people aren't seeing all angles and it takes too long to explain the intricacies. They weren't there watching his excitement for years and eventual disgust. I'm happy he's out because he won't become a casualty on the news and I'm proud that he was able to tell us about his own mistakes and not just blame it all on the navy, my brother is a fine man no matter what anyone on the net thinks. He supports 2 children that aren't his and his girlfriend and works daily sometimes 12 hour days. Attacking his character and ability to man up is nonsensical if you knew him.
a_name, you need to be aware that when you post the sorts of things you posted, you're setting yourself (and your brother) up as a lightening rod for the whole subject of our occupation of Iraq and the so-called "War on Terror". There are a lot of people whose views on these things color their views on recruitment and military service.
I've avoided commenting directly about your brother's situation, even though I was in the Navy for 6 years, in part because of something I came to realize while I was in: the Navy is big. The military is big. Some parts of it are good, some bad. Some commands treat you well, others treat you like crap. You can have a good C.O., or you can have a bad one. You can have a good senior NCO running things, or you can have a complete SOB. Those are just some of the variations. So, I really don't have much to say about it other than I'm sorry your brother had such a bad time of it. Hope the rest of his life treats him better.
a_name, you need to be aware that when you post the sorts of things you posted, you're setting yourself (and your brother) up as a lightening rod for the whole subject of our occupation of Iraq and the so-called "War on Terror". There are a lot of people whose views on these things color their views on recruitment and military service. I've avoided commenting directly about your brother's situation, even though I was in the Navy for 6 years, in part because of something I came to realize while I was in: the Navy is big. The military is big. Some parts of it are good, some bad. Some commands treat you well, others treat you like crap. You can have a good C.O., or you can have a bad one. You can have a good senior NCO running things, or you can have a complete SOB. Those are just some of the variations. So, I really don't have much to say about it other than I'm sorry your brother had such a bad time of it. Hope the rest of his life treats him better.
I understand and I made a mistake by even putting it up as a story for debate, can't disagree with that. I guess I got comfortable here by posting often like I was chatting friends and the story made sense correlating that bad experiences can be had like the awol soldier's story but in hindsight the subject is filled with politics and strong opinions, I just didn't expect character attacks. We learn from our mistakes tho eh . Share nothing on this board
Buried amongst the untold affronts to the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the very spirit of the United States, this torture bill contains a definition of "wrongfully aiding the enemy" which labels all citizens who breach their "allegiance" to President Bush and the actions of his kingdom as terrorists subject to possible arrest, torture and conviction in front of a military tribunal. Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 - Crimes triable by military commissions - includes the following definition: "Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct." ref ref2 TerrorStorm edit Google altering view stats to keep TerrorStorm out of it's most viewed videos.
Evidence Loose Change 2nd ed. koolade drinkers required to ignore.
So I see that the screen writers are staying active while on strike...that is good to know. ahahahaha comic gold! As for the topic... a lot of the stuff they mention is why lots of us don't want to be in the military to begin with. We mention the stuff and it means nothing, let it come from a veteran and it gets press - go figure. Dunno about you guys but to DIE for something I need to believe in the cause and I just don't for this war. I think American leaders toss their weight around in other countries and are grasping at straws trying to remove all terrorists on the planet by taxing our countries economy and the result will be... ya continued trash talk about american policy, no one will appreciate it if it works. We need to look at some of our own issues internally like outsourcing our citizens into a jobless state or reduced wages, the cost of college even tho it has become mandatory, homeless folks that can't get help, our prison system being overwhelmed, welfare still existing tho the depression is OVER yet it's ok to just breed for money and they even give earned income credit on taxes for it. Teenagers know that the government will pay for it if they get knocked up, the milk, the hospital bill, the vitamins, continued healthcare. They instigate these losers to keep breeding maybe hoping that if they are uneducated enough they can use them for troops just by wagging a flag and telling them "good ol boys love their nation". My brother got kicked out of the navy because he was so lazy, wouldn't get up for his watch etc. His commander even sent my mother a letter asking him to straighten up, she could only reply, I'm his mother but he's an adult - he won't listen to me. He went in because of the lies they told him about education expenses paid. He quit smoking to go in healthy. Then when he got to Japan they were so bored, he started smoking again. Sure, they will pay for you to go to their study programs but you don't get to chose your training. He wanted to go for engineering, they put him into a warfare program on ship control because they said they put you in what you tests show you to be proficient at. Now I don't know how marketable that would be in the real world on a resume. I know what buttons to press to shoot missiles. Anyway, once they removed him, they wanted all the money back for the training and have started garnishing his wages for it.
No offense intended but if your post was intended to make the navy look bad, It really only succeeded in making your brother look bad. The navy needs to function is they just allowed everyone to pick a job don't you think everyone would pick engineer or doctor or something they could make a load of money with after discharge. They give you G.I. money after your discharge to train your self with real world skills, your brother was unable to make it to that point, and frankly as a tax payer and am glad he is being held financial accountable.
I also am sorry to inform you that the so called lies about post service education are not lies. I have three friends now and many in the past who have taken advantage of the G.I. bill.
I never claimed he was a saint. But there were untruths imparted to him. I recognize he wasn't good at the job and deserved to be let go but his unhappiness stemmed from their deception. As for paying back the money, that was small print in the contract people don't read - something to the effect of if you aren't here x years you owe us your training cost back. It would hurt less if he had got training that he could take into the real world is the point. He was told he could choose his area of study then was told a different story by a different dept. The fact that commander could not control him and was petitioning his MOTHER to control him from across the world shows some incompetency in his leadership. That's nice that your friends were treated fairly but all aren't. Once you are in, you don't get the choice of where they put you or what happens is the jist, they can tell you anything to get you to sign just like any job that makes promises they don't put in writing.
I don't understand either why welfare recipients aren't forced to pay back the money they used myself but that's offtopic eh
I have to comment.
1. It does not matter what part of the US military one is stationed in. Just by HAVING being in the military on ones resume, (with an honorable discharge) is an incredible enhancement. It means nothing that he was given a position that was not directly related to what he wanted to later seek in the civilian world.
2. His commanding officier's attempt to contect his mother was an attempt at giving him a SECOND CHANCE. I agree this was beyond his commanding officier's job description. It was a judgement call, and made for the reason that the commanding officier saw him THROWING AWAY an incredible oppertunity, and was trying to find anyway to give him an incentive to get the job done.
3. Before anyone signs any contract - mortgage, college scholarship, car loan - one always reads the fine print. Yes the military paid for his training. But guess who pays for the military? Other American taxpayers. You are darn right he should be held accountable for coming up short on his end.
4. ALL he had to do was continuing being a MAN! Serve out the contract he signed. Perform his job to the best of his ability. THEN when he finally got out, he could then use his advance rank, his honerable discharge, to almost 100% get any job he wanted..... after using his G.I. bill to train for it.
There are tooooooooo many stories, cases, of former soldiers, getting an honerable discharge, using their G.I. bill money to train in whatever is their field of intrest - then getting that job - even though it had NOTHING to do with their station while in the military. Tank drivers who become bankers. Air force pilots who become judges. Infantrymen who become truck drivers. Parachutists (sp) who become computer programmers.
Last, technically, no matter what job, what military station, one has, one can easily use SOMETHING about it as a boost to get any job. Lets take your example:
- You claim he was stationed on a ship, just pushing buttons? But his life dream was being an engineer?
- Alright, it's soo simple. He gets out, uses the G.I. bill to train in the field of engineering. He then goes for a job interview. He puts down that he was in the military, and had an honerable discharge.
What does his station in the miltary have to do with engineering, his interviewer asks? "I understand I will have to follow orders precisely (sp) since engineering is a very precise field. I can tell you for a fact, while stationed, I gained years of experience following orders precisely." he could respond.
He could mention, "During my military career, I was reponsible for other people. I understand if you higher me, and give me promotions, I will be responsible for other people. I can tell you for a fact I have years of experience being responsible for other people. Here are my refrences who can attest to this fact (he then lists all his commanding officers.)".
Let me give you some backstory about "manning up". He was a supporter of serving in the armed forces since high school. He had our mother petition the court for money from his trust to attend carson long military institute with his own money. He read about weapons, war history, and leaders in the field. One of the books he kept trying to push on me was about G. Patton. He was great at math and breezed through calculus. He was committed to his service. He seeked it out. He stopped smoking and worked out daily in preparation for his service. There was no step he didn't take to "man up" for the job. He left with his entire family saying no, don't. He took the crap from us telling him he was risking his life for nothing with a slap happy president in office. His fiancee threatened to break up with him if he left. She didn't but he went anyway. He spent 2 years in service. He was on the Uss John McCain during the start of the iraq trouble and they were involved. I know the earnest he went in with. I know how much planning he put into it. I know he didn't want to fail, he built himself up to do this for some time. It's all irrelevant now. Since this ordeal, he has attended school and is now an auto mechanic. He has put the navy experience behind him. I don't particularly like seeing folks speak about him as if he just decided one day to go be a hero and was a loser with no ambition that just couldn't perform so I learned not to share real life here, people aren't seeing all angles and it takes too long to explain the intricacies. They weren't there watching his excitement for years and eventual disgust. I'm happy he's out because he won't become a casualty on the news and I'm proud that he was able to tell us about his own mistakes and not just blame it all on the navy, my brother is a fine man no matter what anyone on the net thinks. He supports 2 children that aren't his and his girlfriend and works daily sometimes 12 hour days. Attacking his character and ability to man up is nonsensical if you knew him.
You completly ignored my response. I know right now it's too late, because he already get a dishonerable discharge. But even though hindsight is "20/20" one can still learn from it.
1. Your reply supports my response even more. Most people who make it through their time served, do NOT put as much work into checking out the military before they join. Yet they are able to get the job done and make it through their time served.
2. Have you ever seen that movie "An Officer And A Gentleman" ? The guy was soo close to making it, then gives up for a reason that when looked at through the lense of pure logic, makes zero sense. He did not THINK out his reason.
You claim your brother's main reason for not completing his service, was that he thought being assigned a position in the military that was NOT directly related to the position he wanted to later seek in civilian life... was a WASTE of his time, and energy. I have just now, step by numerical step, showed how any position in the military is indeed related to any position one wants to later on seek in civilian life. I even spent time thinking out examples he could have used on his resume.
Last, when anyone signs a contract to do a job, and does not complete said job.... it is the definition of NOT being a man. Your brother went through some form of hardcore bootcamp that was paid by tax payer money. Not his money. While he was serving, he earned a salary, he used items, supplies, food, drink, bed, clothing, and more... all supplied by tax payer money. He reneged on his end of the contract he signed.
Your brother was wrong. HIs MAIN reason for reneging on his end of the contract turned out to be flawed. Again, I showed in my last post how he could have turned what he saw as a dead end, into a "get any civilian job I want" card. All your brother can do now is learn from his experience.
I highly doubt the guy got a DD. He might've gotten an OTH, but probably was booted with a BCD (the infamous Big Chicken Dinner). You pretty much have to kill someone (other than the enemy) to get a DD. Only a General Court-martial can hand someone a DD; I doubt he got that.
I highly doubt the guy got a DD. He might've gotten an OTH, but probably was booted with a BCD (the infamous Big Chicken Dinner). You pretty much have to kill someone (other than the enemy) to get a DD. Only a General Court-martial can hand someone a DD; I doubt he got that.
Yeah I agree that it is quite hard to do so. My friend got out because she got a DUI (in Iceland) and they cancelled her shore Duty Orders to Spain because of it. The CMC got her orders changed to a ship out of Norfolk, well if she had taken those orders she would of lost her daughter (she was in the middle of a custody battle) so instead she got a "Hardship" discharge. And even with her DUI she got it changed administratively to Honorable so she could keep her VA benefits and her GI bill.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Army desertion up 80 percent since Iraq war link "Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003. Army desertion rates peaked at 5% (5 in 100 soldiers,) during the Vietnam war. According to the Army, about 9 in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.
In contrast, the Navy has seen a steady decline in deserters since 2001, going from 3,665 that year to 1,129 in 2007. The Marine Corps, meanwhile, has seen the number of deserters stay fairly stable over that timeframe with about 1,000 deserters a year. During 2003 and 2004 the first two years of the Iraq war the number of deserters fell to 877 and 744, respectively. The Air Force can tout the fewest number of deserters with no more than 56 bolting in each of the past five years. The low was in fiscal 2007, with just 16 deserters."
Sounds like this criminal signed up for the college benefits and when they said mount up we're going to Iraq he crapped his pants. Sgt. Coward is his new name.
The American national debt is $59 trillion anyway. Money isn't backed up by anything. It's all just paper and considering how much taxes the average citizen pays i really don't care.
This Circello is a total loser. I wont even read his writings. The US would'nt be free today if soldiers felt like him. Everything he said is lie and propaganda. Times have changed and drastic measures have to be implemented. They should throw his butt in jail for a very long time.
Do you feel that a deserter should be punished more harshly than a military recruiter who rapes underage women?
He served 6 years. You only need to serve 1 in the Army. So he really hasn't committed any crimes even by Army Standards. Also he left before the 6 months were added to the Armies required serve time. Still thats why I didn't join the army. You don't have a choice in who you attack, where your deployed, and the orders your given.
First of all, as soon as you raise your hand and take the oath, your life is the military. As long as he is not honorably discharged, the Military can prosecute to the max.
Once you take the oath, you ARE the property of the United States Goverment, period. You have no say on where to go and what to do and who tio kill. You do what they say.
When you join, you do get an education. You are trained in a field and trained in respect for authority.
They feed you, take care of your medical needs, give you housing and pay for your college when you get out.
I was in during Vietnam. I spent 6 years active duty. If I was told to give my life to save 100's more, I would of in an instant. Thats my job. This is my country and it is my duty to do what I am told, no matter what it is.
I hate cry babies that cant take the heat, but want all the bennies. It makes me sick to see all our fallen soldiers die for wimps that speak against our great country.
If you were told to go door to door in America confiscating guns because a law had been enacted banning the sale of guns to citizens you would do it?
He served 6 years. You only need to serve 1 in the Army. So he really hasn't committed any crimes even by Army Standards. Also he left before the 6 months were added to the Armies required serve time. Still thats why I didn't join the army. You don't have a choice in who you attack, where your deployed, and the orders your given.
First of all, as soon as you raise your hand and take the oath, your life is the military. As long as he is not honorably discharged, the Military can prosecute to the max.
Once you take the oath, you ARE the property of the United States Goverment, period. You have no say on where to go and what to do and who tio kill. You do what they say.
When you join, you do get an education. You are trained in a field and trained in respect for authority.
They feed you, take care of your medical needs, give you housing and pay for your college when you get out.
I was in during Vietnam. I spent 6 years active duty. If I was told to give my life to save 100's more, I would of in an instant. Thats my job. This is my country and it is my duty to do what I am told, no matter what it is.
I hate cry babies that cant take the heat, but want all the bennies. It makes me sick to see all our fallen soldiers die for wimps that speak against our great country.
FUNNY!! Your other post said something along the lines that if soldiers didn't fight america wouldn't be free now this post is saying you hate seeing our soldiers die for wimps that speak against this country. Free speech seems to be a freedom you especially hate.
Originally posted by outfctrl
This Circello is a total loser. I wont even read his writings. The US would'nt be free today if soldiers felt like him.
Everything he said is lie and propaganda. Times have changed and drastic measures have to be implemented. They should throw his butt in jail for a very long time.
You won't read his writings but you know everything he said is a lie and propaganda. lol
Comments
Nah, this sounds like the next Michael Moore film prologue, and just as truthful and objective.
No offense intended but if your post was intended to make the navy look bad, It really only succeeded in making your brother look bad. The navy needs to function is they just allowed everyone to pick a job don't you think everyone would pick engineer or doctor or something they could make a load of money with after discharge. They give you G.I. money after your discharge to train your self with real world skills, your brother was unable to make it to that point, and frankly as a tax payer and am glad he is being held financial accountable.
I also am sorry to inform you that the so called lies about post service education are not lies. I have three friends now and many in the past who have taken advantage of the G.I. bill.
I never claimed he was a saint. But there were untruths imparted to him. I recognize he wasn't good at the job and deserved to be let go but his unhappiness stemmed from their deception. As for paying back the money, that was small print in the contract people don't read - something to the effect of if you aren't here x years you owe us your training cost back. It would hurt less if he had got training that he could take into the real world is the point. He was told he could choose his area of study then was told a different story by a different dept. The fact that commander could not control him and was petitioning his MOTHER to control him from across the world shows some incompetency in his leadership. That's nice that your friends were treated fairly but all aren't. Once you are in, you don't get the choice of where they put you or what happens is the jist, they can tell you anything to get you to sign just like any job that makes promises they don't put in writing.
I don't understand either why welfare recipients aren't forced to pay back the money they used myself but that's offtopic eh
I have to comment.
1. It does not matter what part of the US military one is stationed in. Just by HAVING being in the military on ones resume, (with an honorable discharge) is an incredible enhancement. It means nothing that he was given a position that was not directly related to what he wanted to later seek in the civilian world.
2. His commanding officier's attempt to contect his mother was an attempt at giving him a SECOND CHANCE. I agree this was beyond his commanding officier's job description. It was a judgement call, and made for the reason that the commanding officier saw him THROWING AWAY an incredible oppertunity, and was trying to find anyway to give him an incentive to get the job done.
3. Before anyone signs any contract - mortgage, college scholarship, car loan - one always reads the fine print. Yes the military paid for his training. But guess who pays for the military? Other American taxpayers. You are darn right he should be held accountable for coming up short on his end.
4. ALL he had to do was continuing being a MAN! Serve out the contract he signed. Perform his job to the best of his ability. THEN when he finally got out, he could then use his advance rank, his honerable discharge, to almost 100% get any job he wanted..... after using his G.I. bill to train for it.
There are tooooooooo many stories, cases, of former soldiers, getting an honerable discharge, using their G.I. bill money to train in whatever is their field of intrest - then getting that job - even though it had NOTHING to do with their station while in the military. Tank drivers who become bankers. Air force pilots who become judges. Infantrymen who become truck drivers. Parachutists (sp) who become computer programmers.
Last, technically, no matter what job, what military station, one has, one can easily use SOMETHING about it as a boost to get any job. Lets take your example:
- You claim he was stationed on a ship, just pushing buttons? But his life dream was being an engineer?
- Alright, it's soo simple. He gets out, uses the G.I. bill to train in the field of engineering. He then goes for a job interview. He puts down that he was in the military, and had an honerable discharge.
What does his station in the miltary have to do with engineering, his interviewer asks? "I understand I will have to follow orders precisely (sp) since engineering is a very precise field. I can tell you for a fact, while stationed, I gained years of experience following orders precisely." he could respond.
He could mention, "During my military career, I was reponsible for other people. I understand if you higher me, and give me promotions, I will be responsible for other people. I can tell you for a fact I have years of experience being responsible for other people. Here are my refrences who can attest to this fact (he then lists all his commanding officers.)".
'I agree with Cabe. Once you graduate from college and get a job, a serious girlfriend or wife and maybe even have a kid, there is little chance you're going to join the military. How many people do you know drop everything and switch to a totally different career like that? Especially to a career like the military? I'm sure the army would rather recruit 22-26 year olds instead of 18-22 year olds simply because of the maturity, but they can't.'
Has it occurred to you that we could *both* be right? Things not always done for only one reason. Furthermore, different people might be doing the same thing, but for different reasons. Definitely people *join* the military for different reasons, so it shouldn't be hard to believe that the government has multiple reasons as to why they aim their recruiting efforts the way they do.
No offense intended but if your post was intended to make the navy look bad, It really only succeeded in making your brother look bad. The navy needs to function is they just allowed everyone to pick a job don't you think everyone would pick engineer or doctor or something they could make a load of money with after discharge. They give you G.I. money after your discharge to train your self with real world skills, your brother was unable to make it to that point, and frankly as a tax payer and am glad he is being held financial accountable.
I also am sorry to inform you that the so called lies about post service education are not lies. I have three friends now and many in the past who have taken advantage of the G.I. bill.
I never claimed he was a saint. But there were untruths imparted to him. I recognize he wasn't good at the job and deserved to be let go but his unhappiness stemmed from their deception. As for paying back the money, that was small print in the contract people don't read - something to the effect of if you aren't here x years you owe us your training cost back. It would hurt less if he had got training that he could take into the real world is the point. He was told he could choose his area of study then was told a different story by a different dept. The fact that commander could not control him and was petitioning his MOTHER to control him from across the world shows some incompetency in his leadership. That's nice that your friends were treated fairly but all aren't. Once you are in, you don't get the choice of where they put you or what happens is the jist, they can tell you anything to get you to sign just like any job that makes promises they don't put in writing.
I don't understand either why welfare recipients aren't forced to pay back the money they used myself but that's offtopic eh
I have to comment.
1. It does not matter what part of the US military one is stationed in. Just by HAVING being in the military on ones resume, (with an honorable discharge) is an incredible enhancement. It means nothing that he was given a position that was not directly related to what he wanted to later seek in the civilian world.
2. His commanding officier's attempt to contect his mother was an attempt at giving him a SECOND CHANCE. I agree this was beyond his commanding officier's job description. It was a judgement call, and made for the reason that the commanding officier saw him THROWING AWAY an incredible oppertunity, and was trying to find anyway to give him an incentive to get the job done.
3. Before anyone signs any contract - mortgage, college scholarship, car loan - one always reads the fine print. Yes the military paid for his training. But guess who pays for the military? Other American taxpayers. You are darn right he should be held accountable for coming up short on his end.
4. ALL he had to do was continuing being a MAN! Serve out the contract he signed. Perform his job to the best of his ability. THEN when he finally got out, he could then use his advance rank, his honerable discharge, to almost 100% get any job he wanted..... after using his G.I. bill to train for it.
There are tooooooooo many stories, cases, of former soldiers, getting an honerable discharge, using their G.I. bill money to train in whatever is their field of intrest - then getting that job - even though it had NOTHING to do with their station while in the military. Tank drivers who become bankers. Air force pilots who become judges. Infantrymen who become truck drivers. Parachutists (sp) who become computer programmers.
Last, technically, no matter what job, what military station, one has, one can easily use SOMETHING about it as a boost to get any job. Lets take your example:
- You claim he was stationed on a ship, just pushing buttons? But his life dream was being an engineer?
- Alright, it's soo simple. He gets out, uses the G.I. bill to train in the field of engineering. He then goes for a job interview. He puts down that he was in the military, and had an honerable discharge.
What does his station in the miltary have to do with engineering, his interviewer asks? "I understand I will have to follow orders precisely (sp) since engineering is a very precise field. I can tell you for a fact, while stationed, I gained years of experience following orders precisely." he could respond.
He could mention, "During my military career, I was reponsible for other people. I understand if you higher me, and give me promotions, I will be responsible for other people. I can tell you for a fact I have years of experience being responsible for other people. Here are my refrences who can attest to this fact (he then lists all his commanding officers.)".
Let me give you some backstory about "manning up". He was a supporter of serving in the armed forces since high school. He had our mother petition the court for money from his trust to attend carson long military institute with his own money. He read about weapons, war history, and leaders in the field. One of the books he kept trying to push on me was about G. Patton. He was great at math and breezed through calculus. He was committed to his service. He seeked it out. He stopped smoking and worked out daily in preparation for his service. There was no step he didn't take to "man up" for the job. He left with his entire family saying no, don't. He took the crap from us telling him he was risking his life for nothing with a slap happy president in office. His fiancee threatened to break up with him if he left. She didn't but he went anyway. He spent 2 years in service. He was on the Uss John McCain during the start of the iraq trouble and they were involved. I know the earnest he went in with. I know how much planning he put into it. I know he didn't want to fail, he built himself up to do this for some time. It's all irrelevant now. Since this ordeal, he has attended school and is now an auto mechanic. He has put the navy experience behind him. I don't particularly like seeing folks speak about him as if he just decided one day to go be a hero and was a loser with no ambition that just couldn't perform so I learned not to share real life here, people aren't seeing all angles and it takes too long to explain the intricacies. They weren't there watching his excitement for years and eventual disgust. I'm happy he's out because he won't become a casualty on the news and I'm proud that he was able to tell us about his own mistakes and not just blame it all on the navy, my brother is a fine man no matter what anyone on the net thinks. He supports 2 children that aren't his and his girlfriend and works daily sometimes 12 hour days. Attacking his character and ability to man up is nonsensical if you knew him.
a_name, you need to be aware that when you post the sorts of things you posted, you're setting yourself (and your brother) up as a lightening rod for the whole subject of our occupation of Iraq and the so-called "War on Terror". There are a lot of people whose views on these things color their views on recruitment and military service.
I've avoided commenting directly about your brother's situation, even though I was in the Navy for 6 years, in part because of something I came to realize while I was in: the Navy is big. The military is big. Some parts of it are good, some bad. Some commands treat you well, others treat you like crap. You can have a good C.O., or you can have a bad one. You can have a good senior NCO running things, or you can have a complete SOB. Those are just some of the variations. So, I really don't have much to say about it other than I'm sorry your brother had such a bad time of it. Hope the rest of his life treats him better.
I understand and I made a mistake by even putting it up as a story for debate, can't disagree with that. I guess I got comfortable here by posting often like I was chatting friends and the story made sense correlating that bad experiences can be had like the awol soldier's story but in hindsight the subject is filled with politics and strong opinions, I just didn't expect character attacks. We learn from our mistakes tho eh . Share nothing on this board
Buried amongst the untold affronts to the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the very spirit of the United States, this torture bill contains a definition of "wrongfully aiding the enemy" which labels all citizens who breach their "allegiance" to President Bush and the actions of his kingdom as terrorists subject to possible arrest, torture and conviction in front of a military tribunal.
Subsection 4(b) (26) of section 950v. of HR 6166 - Crimes triable by military commissions - includes the following definition:
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."
ref
ref2
TerrorStorm
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Google altering view stats to keep TerrorStorm out of it's most viewed videos.
Evidence Loose Change 2nd ed. koolade drinkers required to ignore.
No offense intended but if your post was intended to make the navy look bad, It really only succeeded in making your brother look bad. The navy needs to function is they just allowed everyone to pick a job don't you think everyone would pick engineer or doctor or something they could make a load of money with after discharge. They give you G.I. money after your discharge to train your self with real world skills, your brother was unable to make it to that point, and frankly as a tax payer and am glad he is being held financial accountable.
I also am sorry to inform you that the so called lies about post service education are not lies. I have three friends now and many in the past who have taken advantage of the G.I. bill.
I never claimed he was a saint. But there were untruths imparted to him. I recognize he wasn't good at the job and deserved to be let go but his unhappiness stemmed from their deception. As for paying back the money, that was small print in the contract people don't read - something to the effect of if you aren't here x years you owe us your training cost back. It would hurt less if he had got training that he could take into the real world is the point. He was told he could choose his area of study then was told a different story by a different dept. The fact that commander could not control him and was petitioning his MOTHER to control him from across the world shows some incompetency in his leadership. That's nice that your friends were treated fairly but all aren't. Once you are in, you don't get the choice of where they put you or what happens is the jist, they can tell you anything to get you to sign just like any job that makes promises they don't put in writing.
I don't understand either why welfare recipients aren't forced to pay back the money they used myself but that's offtopic eh
I have to comment.
1. It does not matter what part of the US military one is stationed in. Just by HAVING being in the military on ones resume, (with an honorable discharge) is an incredible enhancement. It means nothing that he was given a position that was not directly related to what he wanted to later seek in the civilian world.
2. His commanding officier's attempt to contect his mother was an attempt at giving him a SECOND CHANCE. I agree this was beyond his commanding officier's job description. It was a judgement call, and made for the reason that the commanding officier saw him THROWING AWAY an incredible oppertunity, and was trying to find anyway to give him an incentive to get the job done.
3. Before anyone signs any contract - mortgage, college scholarship, car loan - one always reads the fine print. Yes the military paid for his training. But guess who pays for the military? Other American taxpayers. You are darn right he should be held accountable for coming up short on his end.
4. ALL he had to do was continuing being a MAN! Serve out the contract he signed. Perform his job to the best of his ability. THEN when he finally got out, he could then use his advance rank, his honerable discharge, to almost 100% get any job he wanted..... after using his G.I. bill to train for it.
There are tooooooooo many stories, cases, of former soldiers, getting an honerable discharge, using their G.I. bill money to train in whatever is their field of intrest - then getting that job - even though it had NOTHING to do with their station while in the military. Tank drivers who become bankers. Air force pilots who become judges. Infantrymen who become truck drivers. Parachutists (sp) who become computer programmers.
Last, technically, no matter what job, what military station, one has, one can easily use SOMETHING about it as a boost to get any job. Lets take your example:
- You claim he was stationed on a ship, just pushing buttons? But his life dream was being an engineer?
- Alright, it's soo simple. He gets out, uses the G.I. bill to train in the field of engineering. He then goes for a job interview. He puts down that he was in the military, and had an honerable discharge.
What does his station in the miltary have to do with engineering, his interviewer asks? "I understand I will have to follow orders precisely (sp) since engineering is a very precise field. I can tell you for a fact, while stationed, I gained years of experience following orders precisely." he could respond.
He could mention, "During my military career, I was reponsible for other people. I understand if you higher me, and give me promotions, I will be responsible for other people. I can tell you for a fact I have years of experience being responsible for other people. Here are my refrences who can attest to this fact (he then lists all his commanding officers.)".
Let me give you some backstory about "manning up". He was a supporter of serving in the armed forces since high school. He had our mother petition the court for money from his trust to attend carson long military institute with his own money. He read about weapons, war history, and leaders in the field. One of the books he kept trying to push on me was about G. Patton. He was great at math and breezed through calculus. He was committed to his service. He seeked it out. He stopped smoking and worked out daily in preparation for his service. There was no step he didn't take to "man up" for the job. He left with his entire family saying no, don't. He took the crap from us telling him he was risking his life for nothing with a slap happy president in office. His fiancee threatened to break up with him if he left. She didn't but he went anyway. He spent 2 years in service. He was on the Uss John McCain during the start of the iraq trouble and they were involved. I know the earnest he went in with. I know how much planning he put into it. I know he didn't want to fail, he built himself up to do this for some time. It's all irrelevant now. Since this ordeal, he has attended school and is now an auto mechanic. He has put the navy experience behind him. I don't particularly like seeing folks speak about him as if he just decided one day to go be a hero and was a loser with no ambition that just couldn't perform so I learned not to share real life here, people aren't seeing all angles and it takes too long to explain the intricacies. They weren't there watching his excitement for years and eventual disgust. I'm happy he's out because he won't become a casualty on the news and I'm proud that he was able to tell us about his own mistakes and not just blame it all on the navy, my brother is a fine man no matter what anyone on the net thinks. He supports 2 children that aren't his and his girlfriend and works daily sometimes 12 hour days. Attacking his character and ability to man up is nonsensical if you knew him.
You completly ignored my response. I know right now it's too late, because he already get a dishonerable discharge. But even though hindsight is "20/20" one can still learn from it.
1. Your reply supports my response even more. Most people who make it through their time served, do NOT put as much work into checking out the military before they join. Yet they are able to get the job done and make it through their time served.
2. Have you ever seen that movie "An Officer And A Gentleman" ? The guy was soo close to making it, then gives up for a reason that when looked at through the lense of pure logic, makes zero sense. He did not THINK out his reason.
You claim your brother's main reason for not completing his service, was that he thought being assigned a position in the military that was NOT directly related to the position he wanted to later seek in civilian life... was a WASTE of his time, and energy. I have just now, step by numerical step, showed how any position in the military is indeed related to any position one wants to later on seek in civilian life. I even spent time thinking out examples he could have used on his resume.
Last, when anyone signs a contract to do a job, and does not complete said job.... it is the definition of NOT being a man. Your brother went through some form of hardcore bootcamp that was paid by tax payer money. Not his money. While he was serving, he earned a salary, he used items, supplies, food, drink, bed, clothing, and more... all supplied by tax payer money. He reneged on his end of the contract he signed.
Your brother was wrong. HIs MAIN reason for reneging on his end of the contract turned out to be flawed. Again, I showed in my last post how he could have turned what he saw as a dead end, into a "get any civilian job I want" card. All your brother can do now is learn from his experience.
I highly doubt the guy got a DD. He might've gotten an OTH, but probably was booted with a BCD (the infamous Big Chicken Dinner). You pretty much have to kill someone (other than the enemy) to get a DD. Only a General Court-martial can hand someone a DD; I doubt he got that.
Yeah I agree that it is quite hard to do so. My friend got out because she got a DUI (in Iceland) and they cancelled her shore Duty Orders to Spain because of it. The CMC got her orders changed to a ship out of Norfolk, well if she had taken those orders she would of lost her daughter (she was in the middle of a custody battle) so instead she got a "Hardship" discharge. And even with her DUI she got it changed administratively to Honorable so she could keep her VA benefits and her GI bill.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Army desertion up 80 percent since Iraq war
link
"Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003. Army desertion rates peaked at 5% (5 in 100 soldiers,) during the Vietnam war.
According to the Army, about 9 in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.
In contrast, the Navy has seen a steady decline in deserters since 2001, going from 3,665 that year to 1,129 in 2007.
The Marine Corps, meanwhile, has seen the number of deserters stay fairly stable over that timeframe with about 1,000 deserters a year. During 2003 and 2004 the first two years of the Iraq war the number of deserters fell to 877 and 744, respectively.
The Air Force can tout the fewest number of deserters with no more than 56 bolting in each of the past five years. The low was in fiscal 2007, with just 16 deserters."
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You can not have **LL **IT without b,u, s,h.
The American national debt is $59 trillion anyway. Money isn't backed up by anything. It's all just paper and considering how much taxes the average citizen pays i really don't care.
Do you feel that a deserter should be punished more harshly than a military recruiter who rapes underage women?
Once you take the oath, you ARE the property of the United States Goverment, period. You have no say on where to go and what to do and who tio kill. You do what they say.
When you join, you do get an education. You are trained in a field and trained in respect for authority.
They feed you, take care of your medical needs, give you housing and pay for your college when you get out.
I was in during Vietnam. I spent 6 years active duty. If I was told to give my life to save 100's more, I would of in an instant. Thats my job. This is my country and it is my duty to do what I am told, no matter what it is.
I hate cry babies that cant take the heat, but want all the bennies. It makes me sick to see all our fallen soldiers die for wimps that speak against our great country.
If you were told to go door to door in America confiscating guns because a law had been enacted banning the sale of guns to citizens you would do it?Once you take the oath, you ARE the property of the United States Goverment, period. You have no say on where to go and what to do and who tio kill. You do what they say.
When you join, you do get an education. You are trained in a field and trained in respect for authority.
They feed you, take care of your medical needs, give you housing and pay for your college when you get out.
I was in during Vietnam. I spent 6 years active duty. If I was told to give my life to save 100's more, I would of in an instant. Thats my job. This is my country and it is my duty to do what I am told, no matter what it is.
I hate cry babies that cant take the heat, but want all the bennies. It makes me sick to see all our fallen soldiers die for wimps that speak against our great country.
FUNNY!! Your other post said something along the lines that if soldiers didn't fight america wouldn't be free now this post is saying you hate seeing our soldiers die for wimps that speak against this country. Free speech seems to be a freedom you especially hate.
Originally posted by outfctrl
This Circello is a total loser. I wont even read his writings. The US would'nt be free today if soldiers felt like him.
Everything he said is lie and propaganda. Times have changed and drastic measures have to be implemented. They should throw his butt in jail for a very long time.
You won't read his writings but you know everything he said is a lie and propaganda. lol