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Why do MMO's suck now?
B1ackjax
Member Posts: 14
Every MMO is basically the same stuff over and over and over. Questing is repetitive, kill xxx mob and get yyy reward. Deliver xxx to NPC_39234248 and get 2 copper pieces. Grind on mobs for experience just to get to end game and then what. Oh yeah, do tons more grinding to get uber gear just so you can be competitive.
Doesn't someone have a new MMO concept yet....
Comments
no because to make an MMO it costs a hell of a lot. many companies are (and i'l be honest here) too wussy to be innovative. or they mask their wussiness with claims of innovation that end up as regurgitated material. just like in any industry it will take time for the developers to break the trend...it will happen...just not anytime soon.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Dark age of Camelot's end game (before the TOA expansion) really had nothing to do with Uber Gear it was all mainly about RvR. But I do agree most games now are pretty much just grind to max then grind for gear over and over.
I'm sure we can all agree that TOA ruined that game. Furthermore, I do believe Shadowbane had the best concept out there and was the most fun and refreshing to play. Sure it had its pitfalls (bugs, bad graphics etc..) but I'd rate Shadowbane over any MMO out there today just because it wasn't a huge grind fest really, it was ALL about the pvp.
/discuss
Sarcasm aside, what you described is exactly how MMORPG's are supposed to be. Have you ever seen movies like Lord of the Rings, Dungeons & Dragons, Beowulf, King Arthur, Narnia, etc? Have you ever read fantasy themed Novels such as Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms,etc? What do these all have in common with MMORPG's? Well, you have the introduction period where you are introduced to the fantasy setting. Then there's the typical storyline / plot where your character must follow, followed by the looooong crazy fun filled epic quest adventure. Books and Movies have an ending, but MMORPG's don't end. Your character will always have more fun and interesting adventures until you the player decide to quit.
Every MMO is the same because how can the typical goal be any different? MMO's will always have it's interesting lore and content to draw the player in, and the player will choose his destiny as to how he wants to advance his character, whether it be by adventuring for wealth and fame, crafting until you reach master crafter for wealth and fame, or by killing everyone to become the best most feared and respected PVPER in the server.. This is what defines MMO's. It wont change because this is what an MMORPG is.. It's like asking when will human beings evolve and change to something else? Never because we are what we are and MMO's are what they are. U cant change it.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Yes I've seen all those movies... I am pretty sure none of those characters camped dungeons or waited for Elite Boss Mob #5464.32 to spawn for gear to be competitive. Or killing lvl 2 rabbits for XP. Have you ever killed a toad and got a sword to drop? I sure haven't.
And in those movies, it was all about the "war". In LOTR Man vs Orcs/Sauron, Narnia the evil Witch and her army vs. The lion guy and his army.
Only one game out there like this right now and its pretty much dead and that game is Shadowbane. It's ALL about you versus the opposing side. I think they need to build upon what Shadowbane did and not make more EQ clones.
Because they are all WoW clones. End of thread
HOGG4LIFE
Well, it could be that you are growing out of the genre...or at least growing faster than this genre.
Gotta ask yourself, How long have MMO's been around? How much work goes into making one? How much money goes into making one? (A relatively good one at that).
The games that are still bopping around and the games that are upcoming do have common ground because they are a part of a genre. A leap will be made sometime but that sorta thing comes around ever so often. If you look at other genres of gaming I think you will find that not much has changed from year to year either. Shit, shooters are basically still the same monster, third person action games who began using "bullet time" after john woo movies and the Matrix that made it big; are still using it. RTS games still resemble each other. Sports games definitely are pretty much the same.
No other category thus far is as complex as an MMO world. It's a huge risk to make this type of video game. Too much money involved. Once progress is made in learning how to spend less on the big points of a game then I think innovation will come on a wide scale. It's either that or you will actually get a company who wants to take a risk to break the mold.
It's all about vision I guess.
This world of video gaming is still pretty young.
The problem is that mostly all mmo players now are achievers/killers. They just play for that uber sword or whatever. There is a goal in their mind which they strive to achieve. They wanna be a badass in pvp or show of their phat loot. They rush through the game as fast as possible to achieve.
No one plays to Explore or Socialize anymore. No one is content spending time to acually figure out puzzles or strategize or anything like that. Just log on to thotbot.com or whatver and find out the easiest way to "get through" everything.
Try to take some time to enjoy the game. Explore some new things, take it all in! Enjoy the ride, do not speed to the destination!
because people buy sucky MMO's
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Eve Online.
I agree with this person especial the part where it take time. What we have to realise is that MMORPG are relitive new, and did not even had time to mature up. Infact the whole of the IT, from hard- to software did not had time to "mature" up just yet.
Take movies for exemple, just look how the acting was 10-15 years after the first movie. It was "bad" it needed time to evolve. Same goes for MMORPG's. However the problem is, the consumers are WAY more demanding then back when movies started.
Games like Darkfall, if release what they promised. Might refresh the MMO genre, but will quickly become "old" and we again will demand for something new and fresh and we get threads like these.
LAWL.
-Kill x dead space, get y reputation.
-Mine x asteroid, get y cash.
-Camp x gate, kill y player.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Big company's have a Generic template for games, They want to make them addictive to keep there cash flow constant.
They add 'Rare' content to entice players to the higher levels (Sometimes taking months = More $$$)
Then once the players are at the highest levels they PvP.. And to be a good PvP'er you need the best equipment (More time= More $$$)
Because of this, Company's only have to add new 'Rare' content, Make it hard to get, and then players are trapped always trying to better each other.
Games are competitive, you always want to be better than the other person, So you play to get the newest items.
Thats why there all the same.
Because it works for business.
Website
The problem stems i think from everyone copying the crapfest that is called WoW. Devs generally prefer to go for whats safe as making a MMO isant cheap. So they go for what seems to work.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
I agree with OP...
but EVE is a nice get away right now.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
The problem stems ofcourse from how WoW has become so many "first tries" of the genre. Similar to children sticking to tasteless meals or friends never venturing from their favourite bands, the first thing they will look for is something the same.
Its a bit of a parody of gaming, like all big hits of their originators. It leaves those questioning by the sidelines whilst the rest ride the wave of disposable gaming.
If your looking for innovation though you will never find it with advertisements or reviews. Dig around some search engines till you find something than floats your boat.
LAWL.
-Kill x dead space, get y reputation.
-Mine x asteroid, get y cash.
-Camp x gate, kill y player.
Exactly my point....
Until they combine FPS with mmorpg combat you'll never have a "skilled" mmo. Basicly put an end to "stats" and slow "wait and click" combat systems.
MIMI
Personally I think MMo's suck now because they all want WoW dollars. They think they can steal WoW players by making a WoW clone. If a company would stop focusing on the wow players and try to go for the people that dont like wow or that type of game play I think you would start seeing some pretty interesting games. However those dollar signs are just to big for them to ignore. Even though they never do end up coming close to wow.
Im not saying WoW is anything great. They sure didnt do anything new except make it stable and have very low system specs so everyone could play it. It is easy to get in to and leveling your first time around is pretty fun. Everything else was pretty much done in other MMO's before them. They were just smart enough to take their time and finish the product to the point it was playable and not a buggy mess.
Its time for developers to take a chance and try some new ideas out. No they probably wont have 9 million subs but you dont need that many to turn a profit. WoW was both the best and worst thing that has happened to the genre.
LAWL.
-Kill x dead space, get y reputation. (or.... get reputation so that you can utilize level 4 research agents which can help you make mega money w/o any real effort on your part)
-Mine x asteroid, get y cash. (or, learn the skills and abilities that let you drag in 100Million ISK per hour, which can finance that next Dreadnaught you wish to buy)
-Camp x gate, kill y player. (or join in a roaming gang and hunt down your prey. Could be all Stealth bombers, or a smalll fleet, or a small squad of inteceptors..... or get a fleet together and destroy someones POS's and take their space stations, or go rogue and be a pirate and demand money from players who pass through your space (after you blow up their ship of course)
The point being, if you don't understand where the underlying mechanics of EVE eventually take you, then you really never understood how to play EVE at all.
It really is quite different than any other game out there....but learning to appreciate its precision and balance can take many months (I'm still learning almost 6 months after I started)
Back to the OP....what exactly are you looking for?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE= sub and level up offline amiright? doesnt sound fun or interactive when a game asks you to log off to advance.
no thanks
MIMI
I agree with those who talk about the cloning of WoW.
When i started playing MMOs There was an increase in the complexity of the games. They worked hard to make the game more complex by adding better story lines, harder tasks, new useful and completely different classes and they attempted to please the few of us who played.
Take SWG for example. 30 classes in which you had to choose from. Pure crafters who controlled the economy. The fact crafted items ruled, there was decay. Docs and Ents galore.....all in one MMO who needed the other class no matter what the job was. Great! Then the downward spiral caused to MMOs from WoW.
Another thing which i really think that was done right was from Turbine. With the keys/chests in AC2. Get a group and go to a location that you know a chest is in and the groups would take out the guarding elite mob. Then everyone with a key got to loot the chest and get thier own random stated gear. A great blend of D2 stated items and % gear that everyone recieved. You didnt have to be pissed by the "Its my 10th run and i havent won a Lot yet". That was ideal...sadly we know where AC2 when after the nerf's.
BTW if you played grinding games like FFXI i think you would realize that grinding is actually nice. I loved getting a group and having that same group for hours. Most the people who hated the grouping and griding on FFXI didnt like it b/c they had no idea how to play the class they picked. It let us spot your name and basically ban you from LS's and groups......learn your roll or to bad for you. Now i spend just as much time LFG's in other MMOs as i did in FFXI, only to keep it for 30 mniutes or less and be sitting there spamming like a retard again.
MMOs were onto something for a while but the Kiddie Gen wants it all and they want it right now, for nothing. They need to be the Jedi in every game they play. Ruining games.
Man I couldn't have said it better myself. I remember when I was first playing EQ, that was basically the main reason I played. I grouped, but I also socialized, and I remember that my goal used to be to explore as much as possible. I mean as far as I'm concerned, I think EQ's world is still pretty massive by comparison to some MMO's now a days.
Thing is, and this is just from the topic, Games have become very expensive to make. No news flash there but, just how deep that rabbit goes is hard to grasp for anyone not putting the cash up personally, or quite frankly, begging for it from investors.
I remember the games that dropped you into a world and said live. That was Ultima Online. Those type of games don't exist anymore. Developers have decided gamers are too stupid to figure out how to live in a game world and make their own adventure and explore. There always has to be that damn story line. To me story lines are for books. And books belong in a library and that library should belong in town and that town should belong in a world, and if i want to play a story line i should be able to pick up that book and explore, and if i want to pick up another book and experience a story i should be able to, I'm in a library after all. Again that was Ultima Online. Then EA changed it to be more console friendly for the next gen of players and to stay competitive, so they thought. (Zipadee doo daaa.)
The biggest mistake EA had was they didn't pursue Ultima Online 2 The 3d game. Then Sony with their platform console experience, and habits of the device, made everquest, and Mythic brought Dark Age Of Camelot and so on.
My point is these console game habits have staled the market. This goes way back. How many different Donkey Kong or Pacman games pop up, tons! Do i need to bring up Tetris.. How many different ways can you make a player do the same thing?
I Wont get started on the Korean game invasion....
Developers have been doing the same thing for so long because its profitable. It can be detrimental to have a flop. The game creation process is a game in itself.
Many developers are now commercialising their singleplayer games as online multiplayer PC games and charging a fee. Not realising they just added a visual lobby in place of the room join lobby we use to see just the names of players and their chat text in.
Example Hellgate: London.
They took the Diablo2 game style and charged you a fee for the lobby and a few items the pulled out of the full game, simple items, but desirable enough to call extra content.
Back in the day we would have called that a scam and another developer trying to F@k their player base.
FoE Fist of the Empire
As it has been said before, the reason they suck is because WoW is so successful that every game wants some WoW money. No one is going to take a chance. When they do take a chance it can spell disaster so they stick to that formula. It is good to see that PoTBS and TR are actually taking a chance and not putting in Elves. It is very refreshing.
As far as the majority of these games is concerned, we will see WoW clones for a very long time. May as well just play WoW or another genre of games. WoW and it's clones are here to stay. Not only here to stay but we have many more clones coming out next year.
The biggest WoW clone of them all is the most hyped MMO for next year --> WAR. WAR is a direct copy of WoW. They did not even try to make it different a little bit. They just took WoW and put a different name on it.