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Breaking the Mold. WAR shifts focus from Gear to Skill
MrVicchio
Member Posts: 598
All the comments I get from WoW friends is they don't get why WAR is so popular, they can't understand how you cannot have GEAR as the focus. "Why should I play a game where casuals are equal to me in gear, that's retarded!"
I laugh at them to be honest. Laugh until I can laugh no more. Are people REALLY that focused on "gear" they cannot look past this and realize there is FAR MORE depth to the WAR game set up then WoW?
Seriously, hardcore players should be all over WAR like white on rice. WAR rewards those that play more, contribute to the war more, and honestly, the amount of customization, both in armor coloration, trophies and skill sets... is amazing.
In WoW you could have 3 Mages (I played a mage so I use mages, neener) of different races, and the differences between the three would be minimal. Frost, Fire and the 3 Min mage. That's IT. And each one in T4 gear would look... the same, and aside a small focus in HOW they operate....
WAR on the other hand... All three in Tier 4 gear would look different, and the focus of each would be significant. Cookie Cutters are the strength of WoW not WAR.
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Comments
WAR will still be a point and click and wait based combat system. Yes it will require skill, manging morale, identifying the correct targets for your class and training damage on the appropriate enemy. Still I have to wonder if point and click style combat isn't getting a little stale. Some of the new mmo's coming out with twitchier attack and block options seem raw right now and unpolished but it feels like they're pushing the boundaries more and adding something new rather than recycling.
Have you played WAR? Do you even know it will be any different from not just wow but any other mmo? Obviously war is going to be different they have had 3+ years after wow has been released to try to make a better game. Wow was developed some 7 years ago now. So don't act like wow is a new game. Obviusly war is coming from a different angle, yetyou flame wow and yet its different to eq2,lotro etc etc etc. Personally I dotn even see this game as anything new if you want for what you describe, then why dont you go play Daoc?. Because this is exactly Daoc but with different races. If you think armour and stats wont give you an advantage in War they sorry to say you are highly misinformed.
You telling me a little gnome mage looks the same as an undead mage? Even in the same armour they look different. Blizzard are currently working on a new mmo,and they have now all sorts of data to make a new game,whether it would be as good as wow will be highly debatable.
All you are making is assumptions and writing what you hope war will be like. Funny how when things don't work out these are the same people that will flame the game to death.
Have you played WAR? Do you even know it will be any different from not just wow but any other mmo? Obviously war is going to be different they have had 3+ years after wow has been released to try to make a better game. Wow was developed some 7 years ago now. So don't act like wow is a new game. Obviusly war is coming from a different angle, yetyou flame wow and yet its different to eq2,lotro etc etc etc. Personally I dotn even see this game as anything new if you want for what you describe, then why dont you go play Daoc?. Because this is exactly Daoc but with different races. If you think armour and stats wont give you an advantage in War they sorry to say you are highly misinformed.
You telling me a little gnome mage looks the same as an undead mage? Even in the same armour they look different. Blizzard are currently working on a new mmo,and they have now all sorts of data to make a new game,whether it would be as good as wow will be highly debatable.
All you are making is assumptions and writing what you hope war will be like. Funny how when things don't work out these are the same people that will flame the game to death.
Take a Gnome and an undead Mage side by side fully decked out in T4 Gear what's the difference between them?Yeah. WAR will but a LOT different then WoW or any other MMO out there.
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Have you played WAR? Do you even know it will be any different from not just wow bmmoany other mmo? Obviously war is going to be different they have had 3+ years after wow has been released to try to make a better game. Wow was developed some 7 years ago now. So don't act like wow is Obviuslyme. Obviusly war is coming from a diffyetyouangle, yetyou flame wow and yet its different to eq2,lotro etc etc etc. dotnonally I dotn even see this game as anything new if you want for what you descridontthen why dontDaoc go play Daoc?. Because thiDaoc exactly Daoc but with different races. If you think armour and stats wont give you an advantage in War they sorry to say you are highly misinformed.
You telling me a magele gnome mage looks the same magen undead mage? Even in the same armour they look different. Blizzard are currently workmmo,anda new mmo,and they have now all sorts of data tgame,whether game,whether it would be as good as wow will be highly debatable.
All you are making is assumptions and writing what you hope war will be like. Funny how when things don't work out these are the same people that will flame the game to death.
Take a Gnome aMagen undead Mage side by side fully decked out in T4 Gear what's the difference between them?Yeah. WAR will but a LOT diWoWrent then WoW or any other MMO out there.
And how do you know this?? You are making assumptions? or you hope it will be?
Yes there's nothing different in any character decked in tier 4 true, but you can still tell the difference betmage a gnome mage and an undead mage thats what i was saying
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Call me crazy but who cares if you look like somebody else? When you see another player on the battle field do you recognize them by the way their gear looks or by their player name? Don't get me wrong I'm all for being able to customize my char, but I don't assosiate other players by what their toon looks like, but by how well they play and my gaming experiance while with that person.
I agree that it would look sort of aqward having a million cookie cutter people running around, but with just the tiniest effort in reading the WAR official site you know there will be variances.
As far as trying to "Convert" people into the realization that there are other play styles than GEAR = PWN, well...to each his own I guess. Let them wallow in their own UBERNESS while ganking lvl 1's.
Well to the Op, this game is RvR/casual focused MMO get in, play and get out. The focus of the game isn't about "I, me, myself", the focus is about bringing your realm closer to ransacking and dominating the enemie's capital city (in my case High Elf and Dwarf).
This in effect is pretty much different than WOW's focus where I raid..raid..raid in order to get gear to pretty much "raid" some more, both are a redundant cycle where the focuses are in different areas "you will get to kill real players in a PvE environment with PvP skills" where the other is you will kill NPCs with PvE focused skills in a PvE environment.
This game will cater to all and that meaning the PvP crowd because there will be checks and balances between PvP skills and the PvE environmemt as well RvR and PvE players who will not or don't wanna bother with RvR or PvP period (the majority of MMO players who seem to be overlooked currently by guilds).
Another focus that can and hopefull will be seen in this game is a collaboration between PvP and PvE folks that make them a "force" to be reckoned with (again unlike WOW or any other game hosting PvP or PvE) where a lore that has been marketed 20+ years can be shared by all for a common goal (ransacking the capital).
While I know this post will bring out a good amount of "negative" people focusing on the WOW aspect of your post, this is the closest I could give you in response without going to indebt with the system of Warhammr/WOW comparison (usually ends up a fracking whine fest of which is better).
Personally, I am glad that this game will not host or cater to "raid" gamers as we have more than enough of them in the current MMO market today (who needs another hack and raid game.
While Warhmmer won't be different in the aspects of being a MMO there will certainly be differeances noticed as well as similarities within the game's dynamic to WOW's. Does this mean it's better "certainly not" (up to what the player is looking for).
P.S.
On a note, Although you will have people grinding their way up to tier 4 within the game to get the uber loot and hit the higher content RvR and PvE stuff (yes PvE content will be in the game if they wanna keep the customers). This game will not be a EQ or a WOW centric or orientated game (eventhough if people think it resembles it).
Common sense says to put as much if not more PvE content in the game for those who wanna do that which includes, role players, the casual MMO, lore mongers, people new to Warhammer and the overall loot mongers (Asian gold farmers included).
No, the games focus is on RvR and PvE content will always be second to this reality as it should be. There will be plenty to do and if it's not enough gearing the game for a crowd that wants to do anything BUT that which the game is focused on would be fool hardy.
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No, the games focus is on RvR and PvE content will always be second to this reality as it should be. There will be plenty to do and if it's not enough gearing the game for a crowd that wants to do anything BUT that which the game is focused on would be fool hardy.
If you think or even hint at this game not having more PvE content than RvR, you will be sorely disappointed. edit (due to NDA)
This game will be focused on the RvR and PvP aspect but, there will be PvE content and a lot of it I am thinking
Well without breaking any NDA you re wrong
i m saying no more lol
Currently Leucent and this is fact all PvE related material in the game goes toward your realms focus of sacking the capital city. This in itself is something the devs have stated time and time again, over and over on every Warhammer fansite including their own. What this entails, plenty and many a quest/zones that encompass PvE orientated quests that drives the RvR focus (PvP for WOW and EQ2 folks).
You can mark my words but when this game goes live, if you don't think there will be more PvE content in this game than you can shake a WOW stick at you will be fooling yourself.
You can mark my words but when this game goes live if you don't think there will be more PvE content in this game than you can shake a WOW stick at you will be fooling yourself.
Cities that will reset after being conquered! Wheee!Excuse my excitement. >.>
ehm war gear means absolutly nothing 0.0.0.0.0
gear currently has no impact at all at doing damage from a casters view
So what point is there to the statement that the "Best drops will come from City captures and PQ's" then if this is true? O_o
People get confused on what "pve content" means. War is an rvr focused game, it will also have a lot of pve stuff to do. The difference is, if a game is pve focused, they need people to play it. Pve is boring by default ( they can't make dynamically changing encounters, you get a scipted boss, and once you've killed it 50 times it's boring)
Because, eventually all scripted encounters become boring, but they can't pump them out fast enaugh before people are bored with it, they need another way to make sure that people do content, that they've already got bored of. Thus, all pve focused games have a never ending gear grind (eq1, wow, etc) It's a mechanic used by developers to make sure they players will do a given content after they got bored with it, thus allowing devs time to add more new content.
Rvr (or pvp) focused game, has its players doing rvr. They do not need to worry that people will becoem bored with pve content and leave, pve content is on the side, something to do for fun, it's not the reason people play rvr focused games.
As such, devs of rvr focused game don't really care how fast people can/will get bored of pve content, and don't need to put in an extra mechanic that makes sure that people will stick with that pve content after getting bored (more and more uber gear)
As such, war will have pve content, but it won't be based on a never ending gear progression like pve games are. It will just be something for you to do when rvr action is slow or you just want a break.
do you really laugh until you can laugh no more? Or are you just trying to emphasize your point?
if u have seen some of the podcasts, ull know u can pve or rvr all the way ( or do both 50/50 or 40/60) its your choice ... that means there have to be alot of pve content as well as rvr. (just to post at least SOME facts in this post)
Without being in the beta it's hard for anyone to say. PvE is a neccessary evil of MMOs since it's really the only viable way to level up since levelling up if it was all done PvP style would be a real pain.
Having said that looking at the current state of the game I'm sure it said somewhere the level cap is 40, which would seem to indicate that the team want to make it easier to reach the cap and then allow players to focus on RvR. Of course this is all pure speculation.
______________________________
WAR is coming. Look busy.
I can only agree with the OP. The lack of the insidius run for better gear, the greed and bragging of who has better gear, the exclusion "you dont have good enough gear to group with ME" - I am so sick and tired of that shit. It is what still bugs me to no end in games lik EQ2 and WOW. CoH with its skill based system was SO refreshing and felt SO much better. I really think thats one of the best things in WAR.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
From what I've read and heard (from many different sources), there will be less emphasis put on gear and more emphasis on skill and tactics 1v1 combat. You'll still have your "rock, paper, scissors" class balance to a point, but skill and tactics will even play a part in evening the playing field there too.
Let's understand something here about WoW. There was a point where they weren't even considering adding PvP in WoW, and only decided to add things like battlegrounds at the later stages of development. They built their game with a PvE/raid focus and because of that, PvP content feels very "tacked on" to a point.
WAR is focusing more attention on RvR, and are gearing the PvE content to contribute to your faction's overall success from an RvR perspective. Will the PvE components ever match up against the RvR content? Probably not, so if you're a hardcore raiding guild from WoW who just love the ridiculously endless grind of beating a dungeon to win gear just so you can compete in a higher level dungeon, well, this probably isn't the game for you.
To each his own.
Have you played WAR? Do you even know it will be any different from not just wow but any other mmo? Obviously war is going to be different they have had 3+ years after wow has been released to try to make a better game. Wow was developed some 7 years ago now. So don't act like wow is a new game. Obviusly war is coming from a different angle, yetyou flame wow and yet its different to eq2,lotro etc etc etc. Personally I dotn even see this game as anything new if you want for what you describe, then why dont you go play Daoc?. Because this is exactly Daoc but with different races. If you think armour and stats wont give you an advantage in War they sorry to say you are highly misinformed.
You telling me a little gnome mage looks the same as an undead mage? Even in the same armour they look different. Blizzard are currently working on a new mmo,and they have now all sorts of data to make a new game,whether it would be as good as wow will be highly debatable.
All you are making is assumptions and writing what you hope war will be like. Funny how when things don't work out these are the same people that will flame the game to death.
Just had to respond to this discussion based on my experiences playing the WAR beta at PAX this year. The WAR team had set up a Chaos Vs Order LAN fight, and I got the chance to play a Chaos magus. During the battle I got a chance to square off against a bright wizard, and the whole experience felt like a wizard's duel out of Lord of the Rings. Our abilities were completely different and every second I was on edge, wondering what other devestating attack the Empire guy was going to unleash on me. Do you know how I finally won? It wasn't through spellcasting - I used a morale ability to activate the scythes on my flying Chaos disc and charged. But the real fun was noticing how there was nothing similar in either appearance or abilities between the good and evil mage, which for me really enhanced the immersion factor.
Now, I played a mage in WOW for about a year 1/2, and I have to agree with Mr Vicchio - the differences between me as an undead fire mage and a gnome frost mage were relatively minimal. Alliance and horde can cast nearly the same spells (barring a few racial specialties) , which meant fights usually came down to whoever could get counterspell or sheep off fastest, or who had the most insane gear. Speaking of gear, my mage's robes may look more tattered than the gnome's robes, but if we're wearing the same equipment the overall outline and colors of our gear will be the same. Compare this with WAR, where the Bright Wizard has flaming torches on his back and fiery colored robes, while the Magus is decorated in spikes, rides around on a flying disc, and prefers dark black/blue colored gear.
WAR will offer big differences in appearance and playstyle between the two sides, and that alone makes this game interesting to me.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Have you played WAR? Do you even know it will be any different from not just wow but any other mmo? Obviously war is going to be different they have had 3+ years after wow has been released to try to make a better game. Wow was developed some 7 years ago now. So don't act like wow is a new game. Obviusly war is coming from a different angle, yetyou flame wow and yet its different to eq2,lotro etc etc etc. Personally I dotn even see this game as anything new if you want for what you describe, then why dont you go play Daoc?. Because this is exactly Daoc but with different races. If you think armour and stats wont give you an advantage in War they sorry to say you are highly misinformed.
You telling me a little gnome mage looks the same as an undead mage? Even in the same armour they look different. Blizzard are currently working on a new mmo,and they have now all sorts of data to make a new game,whether it would be as good as wow will be highly debatable.
All you are making is assumptions and writing what you hope war will be like. Funny how when things don't work out these are the same people that will flame the game to death.
Just had to respond to this discussion based on my experiences playing the WAR beta at PAX this year. The WAR team had set up a Chaos Vs Order LAN fight, and I got the chance to play a Chaos magus. During the battle I got a chance to square off against a bright wizard, and the whole experience felt like a wizard's duel out of Lord of the Rings. Our abilities were completely different and every second I was on edge, wondering what other devestating attack the Empire guy was going to unleash on me. Do you know how I finally won? It wasn't through spellcasting - I used a morale ability to activate the scythes on my flying Chaos disc and charged. But the real fun was noticing how there was nothing similar in either appearance or abilities between the good and evil mage, which for me really enhanced the immersion factor.
Now, I played a mage in WOW for about a year 1/2, and I have to agree with Mr Vicchio - the differences between me as an undead fire mage and a gnome frost mage were relatively minimal. Alliance and horde can cast nearly the same spells (barring a few racial specialties) , which meant fights usually came down to whoever could get counterspell or sheep off fastest, or who had the most insane gear. Speaking of gear, my mage's robes may look more tattered than the gnome's robes, but if we're wearing the same equipment the overall outline and colors of our gear will be the same. Compare this with WAR, where the Bright Wizard has flaming torches on his back and fiery colored robes, while the Magus is decorated in spikes, rides around on a flying disc, and prefers dark black/blue colored gear.
WAR will offer big differences in appearance and playstyle between the two sides, and that alone makes this game interesting to me.
While I can understand the point of there being difference between the factions you're still comparing 2 different classes in War to 2 of the same class in WoW
Finally, I wanted to give my two cents that, at least from my experience demoing WAR, Mr Vicchio is dead on in his statements. I do realize anything can change in 6 months of development, but as it stands now Mythic is on the right development track.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
If the actual fighting is fun, none of that will matter.
If the actual fighting is not fun, none of that will matter.
The same with Vanguard saga of heroes, this game was truly a let down and a disappointment and in my opinion named wrong (should have been EQ3) where I could be a Dark Elf Necromancer that would pretty muchc have the same exact specials and skills a Gnome Necromancer had (based on paying 10 platinum for grafts and spell books).
I think Warhammer will not be a 100% gear focused game (provided you keep everything up to level) and it is good to see developers putting in the time to make faction and career abilities different from each other (more options the better).
The same with Vanguard saga of heroes, this game was truly a let down and a disappointment and in my opinion named wrong (should have been EQ3) where I could be a Dark Elf Necromancer that would pretty muchc have the same exact specials and skills a Gnome Necromancer had (based on paying 10 platinum for grafts and spell books).
I think Warhammer will not be a 100% gear focused game (provided you keep everything up to level) and it is good to see developers putting in the time to make faction and career abilities different from each other (more options the better).
Actually I think you could liken WAR to a recently released game from a different genre; CoD4. How can you compare? Simple. While you may play against another person who has a higher rank or a better gearset (weapon or mods), if they don't have as much SKILL as you, you could very easily wipe the floor with them. I think that WAR has some of this same nature in it's own rite. It's not about twitchiness like some MMO's coming out, but rather tactics and teamwork. I suppose multiplayer RTS would be a better analogy but I don't play many of those.