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TR are you being really fair to us?
twistedvenom
Member Posts: 118
The first thing I want to say is that this game is a lot of fun. The game play is great. Now here are the problems I have with this game. I’m a LVL 29 sapper and so far I have put in about 72 hours into the game so I would say I put in some hours to complain about a few things. I have a question. Why do they ship out these games that are not all the way finished? I mean is, take a lesson form Blizzard; take your time and release the game when it’s done. If that means you have to delay the game for another 6 to12 months just so you can bring out a good game, then do it. Bring out the game out with few bugs in it. Have what you want in it. I know that you will always have some type of bugs in games and I understand that. I’m not super fan boy of WOW. In fact I’m not playing WOW any more. Remember, I said I like the game play in this game in fact I love the game play its great.
I just don’t like how they put game when they are not really done. Please stop putting games out with very bad lag on it and having the game crash while you are playing, missions where you put in a lot of hard work in it just to find out that you can’t complete the mission because of a bug in the game. Not all missions are like that but I have run it about 6 of them so far like that. That hurts when you can’t finish a mission because of a bug and then I hope the letter I write to the any GM will see it and get back to me while playing to fix the problem. That happened once where a GM got back to and fixed it for me. The other times nothing. I don’t it’s fair to make the gamer go back and do that same mission over and over again. Give something to the gamer like exp or credits to say sorry about that we know there is a problem with this mission here is some exp and or credits to say sorry. To me that would take most of the sting out of it.
Also is it fair to us gamers they put out a game with stuff left out like the auction house or what they call it in the game army surplus which is now where to be found yet. Crafting in the game is kind of weird, seem not really thought out. Some type of mount in the game, again no where to be found yet, is that fair to the gamer who spent 40 to 50 dollars? I think not.
My question to TR is why are trying to put those things in later and not have it ready for us when the game comes out? Why put out an unfinished game? Also is it just me do my fellow gamers feel the same way?
Is the armor starting feel like they are being recycled. I feel some of the armor I had on at earlier levels are the same type I have on in later levels. I just wore this armor like 5-10 levels ago. I as I gain in levels I would like to have cooler armor not something I had 10 levels ago. Any one else feel that way?
This game has a lot potential in it, but so did Vanguard SOH and I played that when it had a lot of bugs in it. Most of seen what happened to Vanguard, a lot of us left the game to never to return again. Now I hear that the game is a lot better but too little to late for some of us. I do look forward to playing the game again when they get most of it fixed so I’m not really ready to give up on the game just yet but I’m getting close.
Us gamers can make or break the game. We have the power and the money to keep the game going. So why put your name on a game when it’s not fully done? You know who you are Sir.
Thanks for reading this rambling of angry gamer. Bash me if you have too but this is how I feel.
Comments
WoW had it's problems on release as well. I can remember many times where accounts were credited several days for the server being down as well as plenty of times where full rest bars were given to compensate for problems.
While TR may not have been as stellar in terms of features, it was at least playable and had a solid core to begin with. I can hardly say the same about other games, such as VG, but TR is in no way even close or even comparable to VG. From day 1 TR has been playable (and enjoyable) on my 3 year old system, and I can honestly say I haven't come across many bugs. The only bug I have yet to experience was the weapon switching bug as of recently, but that was patched within a day.
As for a finished product, well I am sure you mean "extra features included" rather than finished. Because if you meant finished, why are you paying a monthly fee to play a static game? I'm not sure what TR advertised on the boxes you purchased, but when I bought the game, I received everything they advertised. Notice I didn't say I bought the game based off artificially player hype or features promised from hear-say. I got what I payed for, and my first months subscription will be my vote and continued support to further better the already stellar game.
Now don't get me wrong, I see your concerns and you have raised some good points. I just don't think its as "unfinished/shallow" as others may think. But then again many may think I am a fanboi as well. I dunno, Ijust like the game and call BS when I see it.
Keep in mind that this game went under a massive design change. It was pretty far along in developing a swords/elves type game and they scrapped that and redesigned a sci-fi game.
I think this game has been in the works for about 5-6 years? Don't take my word for that as I am not entirely sure. Someone else can answer that question who followed more closely than I did.
In a sense you are right though. There are things still missing in the game and I suspect it is due to the design change above.
I see what you are saying but again there are things that could have been done before it went gold.
You know, when I see a melo-dramatic title in a forum.. I generally stay away from it.... but I couldn't resist this time. Here's my thing, maybe I'm too nice to these programmers/software companies but I like to give them the ole 6-months. From the moment the game is released I say to myself "Okay, this game is new, it's going to kinda suck, let's see what they can do in 6 months". Maybe I am being way to nice, maybe after a month of this game beign on the market... I should say "omg this isn't fair, you aren't being fair" but I just don't allow myself the emotional grief that comes with unhapiness/bitching/complaining/trolling etc...
Give it 6 months, if it still sucks for you... let the complaint floodgates open up. For the interim, play or don't play and don't have expectations because expectations will usually bring you dissapointment.
Anyway, I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it but a little patience could go a long way. I LOVE this game but knowing one of my best buddies and how irritated he can get with a buggy game, I told him to forget TR exists and wait 6 months to play it. Besides, by then I'll have a few lvl 50's and can load him up with gear/credits :P
Someone mentioned earlier that this game was different during development and the answer is a big YES... in the 5 years they developed this game... the first 3 were making a totally crappy game until they decided to scrap the whole project and start all over again. If you take that into account, you can see why they didn't have the money/time to pour a TON of content into this game. By all means, it' s not another Vanguard... but it does need some content/fixes/balance (hihi 6 months?) Here are the videos that show the old version of the game:
Part 1 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=uB9dHVUX2KY
Part2 - http://youtube.com/watch?v=FjE9ZfUSPbs&feature=related
You want to know why it was released now instead of later? Because the publisher wanted to start seeing a return on their investment.
Even Blizzard wanted to delay WoW a little longer so that they could add more content and features to it, but Vivendi told them they need to get it out.
It's not always the developers that decide when a game goes out the door, the publishers / investors have quite a bit of say too and they don't seem to really care about game mechanics.
With that said, I've enjoyed the game thus far and I do see tons of potential. Hopefully within the next few months we'll get an idea of what they have planned for the game.
Why do people seem to forget this about WoW? It had glaring bugs and was game breakingly unstable. I started on Stormreaver so I can only really comment on that server I guess but I'm pretty certain from what was on the forums all servers suffered the same problems.
Attempting to play with friends for an evening gaming only to sit in a que for 2 hours, on a regular basis, every night. For a PvP server only being able to really PvP 5v5 because if there were more than 10 chars kicking off spells it would take litterally 10 minutes to perform them. Items randomly dissappearing from inventories, unbeleivable inbalance. There were probably more but its a loooong time ago now.
Blizz sorted them out, over time, to the best they could but it was far from being complete game at release. The rosey specks people veiw WoW through will marr this industry and all new releases for a time to come, they expect WoW standard gameplay from day 1 and that is a very rare thing not acheivable even by WoW itself.
In short, if a game released with the same issues WoW had now it would sink fast, anothe 'had promise but under performing devs' type hype.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
It's more a opinion what feature should be in the mmorpg. Example You sayed auction house. I don't like auction houses, so I don't want them, I don't miss them and so on. My point is, it's a opinion, what You liked with the features.
How ever, I do agree that Tabula Rasa was publiched too eary. I mean it's playable from day one, but there is so many stuff that aren't really well "thinked", like design with hurry. Maybe half year more in development and TR would been a lot more "well done". Bugs aren't really big issue, because they will get fixed in time. As long the game isn't crashing or be anyway unplaybale. What TR isn't.
There is a lot of work to do in TR with abilities/skills and crafting. They are both design with potential, but doesn't work well at the moment. Not that they don't work, but more like why it's so and why would I want it?
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
I'd bet it was the publisher who said "you need to release this game."
It's smart.
Release a stable, relatively bug free game (I've only seen 2 bugs so far) that is fun to play, but just so happens to be missing a couple of features.
Release the game, start making money, use that money to further production and "finish" the game.
As long as the game is fun, I'll continue to pay for it. The more they add and change, the better.
It's more a opinion what feature should be in the mmorpg. Example You sayed auction house. I don't like auction houses, so I don't want them, I don't miss them and so on. My point is, it's a opinion, what You liked with the features.
How ever, I do agree that Tabula Rasa was publiched too eary. I mean it's playable from day one, but there is so many stuff that aren't really well "thinked", like design with hurry. Maybe half year more in development and TR would been a lot more "well done". Bugs aren't really big issue, because they will get fixed in time. As long the game isn't crashing or be anyway unplaybale. What TR isn't.
There is a lot of work to do in TR with abilities/skills and crafting. They are both design with potential, but doesn't work well at the moment. Not that they don't work, but more like why it's so and why would I want it?
Why is it ok to be just ok about a game. Is it ok when you order something or buy something from a store and when get home its missing parts? When try to talk to the manfacture they tell you that missing parts is part is being worked on and we will get to you as soon as possible. Then you ask yourself if the makers new about it why did they ship it out not complete?I do see what your saying. thanks for your input.
I think it's like saying. My hammer has lasted decades without breaking or letting me down. So You go in companys shop and start whining, why aren't my computer same. Why does it has all those problems and bugs and breaking down. Why I need to upgrade and fix it all the time?
You could say, maybe the issue is little more complex than some customers wants. Maybe some customers just want service without actually thinking, that this isn't so easy situation as with hammer. So world doesn't just chance by how You want stuff to be, they are that way because many different reasons. Publishing too early happens only one reason, running out of money or invenstors wants results for they support. Basicly most dumm action for ever, but greed doesn't have limits to understand what it's all about.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Also wow that game looks soo diff form what we have today.
To the OP, I agree a lot with what you are saying.
Just so you understand incomplete games, try playing HG:L or Fury. Now you will see two incomplete games that were released way too early and bug filed. Of the three MMOGs that released this fall TR is far and above the best one out the gate.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
To the OP
TR got pushed out the door early for one reason, and one reason only - money
Someone figured that the gaming community was gulli^H^H^H^H^Hpatient enough to pay full fare for an unfinished product, wait for several months for the game's completion, and guess what? Some people were. The same someone must have also taken a look at the other games looming large on the horizon and said 'let's get it out before AoC or Warhammer come online and suck all out oxygen away'
Frankly, many people in beta (myself most stridently) told them to hold off launch for at least another 3 months in order to deal with the shallowness and unfinished nature of the game, to no avail.
-=A=-
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ps:for an eye-opener - read this http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/30/hack-fired-negative-game-review
kinda makes you go 'hmmmm.....'
I have not played Fury or HG:L so I wish I could make comment on it. I hope this gets better because I would hate to leave such good game play. Not that the game is all bad.
Thanks for the input.
When WoW was released, it was not a complete game. I remember they offered bgs and a few things that didnt make it to release, it was added later on with patches.
I think people are missing the posters main point . . .
Yes, TR is not a "complete" game per say, and Yes allot of people in Beta wanted them to hold off. (I did also)
This was the option of allot of people after beta. Also of being a professional QA eng mine.
The type of bugs that are currently being found AFTER beta are still beta type bugs and in numbers expected of a beta (useable but buggy with high rate). Example, Rage bug they knew this was really messed up and game play breaking in beta but did not fix and the first fix (to could have been completed insanely simply and quickly - a single point change) this shows bad developing, QA or management. Which unfortunately is not uncommon. . (I know allot of people in the gaming industry)
Also where it could be argued that the game was “complete at release” . . . from that POV it very was feature light with lots of future promises (another sign of a too early release).
In short a MMO being release with out allot of the basic MMO features and what features they do have ½ baked IS a problem . . saying we will fix/add it later (we are talking basic things here) is a simple dodge. After release development is to enhance and add NEW features . . not make basic ones work correctly.
Now, the argument of . “well other mmorps are like this” is a poor argument at best . . effectively all of them suck so it is ok then this one does also?? Bad reasoning . . And this is not even accurate in the first place. Other mmorps have released effectively feature complete with plans of expiation (with various levels of bug problems). TR has been released without late game content, and without allot of basic features with plans to add them later . .this is much different!
The WOW arguments (the most common) are just as bad, since wow released with a FULL game, features and content . . . they had ALLOT of problems but this had to do mostly with scaling problems with the hordes of subscribers which they where not ready for. This changed a lot of the implementations of features but the features was there and fully functional at the start (good example is the AH - one AH in main city was ok if the server was not full . . but maxed out and with model optimizing problems this became a real problem - a real world miscalculation rather then a feature complete problem) also BGs where and are not main content, they are a real extra that if removed may not even be noticed. I am talking about core features.
WOW had ALLOT of "polish" at release!! much more then average . . which is a good selling point and might be one of the reasons people flocked to it. having said that . . they only added more end content really since . . patch 2.3 was the first to really update the overall core game UI and feel (something needed to be done for a long time) Currently they have pvp breaking pve and aritificaly added grind to offset slow content adding.
Fortunately TR is fun in a strictly quasi-FFS stand point so this will not kill it quickly and will not be so bad if they hurry . . . but there are allot of people “racing” to 50 and will hit that wall (heck even wow with all of that end game content it was released with took hard nocks at the “lack” enough of it) TR has effectively none.
I beta games for a hobby (yes I can’t get enough of QA) and am playing TR because a friend wanted be to and that so far we are having fun . . I expect that will be short lived . .and typically once people leave a game they do not come back a year latter . . so they need to continue developing on the fly and get things working and complete before the grand exodus of “normal” players (the death nell of all mmo’s)
Wow thank you.. So one out there feels my pain.
From what I hear, every MMO must contain this in order for it to be considered a finished MMO.
Those were just a few things I picked up on. Wait a minute.... your right its not a fully featured MMO because it doesn't have these items as well.
Have borrowed enough features from other MMO's? Just because TR doesn't have features other MMO's have, doesn't make it "lacking" nor does it make it such an unfinished product. I would consider WoW an unfinished MMO as well because it doesn't include various features that I WISHED it had. Calling TR out for be unfinished because it lacked some of the features listed above are only ones personal biased veiws and are hardly worth arguing because its all subjective to the player.
All things aside though, they are adding in additional content and features that the community requested and I applaud them for doing so. They responded to the community and are giving it away to them for free, considering most additional content in other MMO's are released through expansions.
From what I hear, every MMO must contain this in order for it to be considered a finished MMO.
Those were just a few things I picked up on. Wait a minute.... your right its not a fully featured MMO because it doesn't have these items as well.
Have borrowed enough features from other MMO's? Just because TR doesn't have features other MMO's have, doesn't make it "lacking" nor does it make it such an unfinished product. I would consider WoW an unfinished MMO as well because it doesn't include various features that I WISHED it had. Calling TR out for be unfinished because it lacked some of the features listed above are only ones personal biased veiws and are hardly worth arguing because its all subjective to the player.
All things aside though, they are adding in additional content and features that the community requested and I applaud them for doing so. They responded to the community and are giving it away to them for free, considering most additional content in other MMO's are released through expansions.
Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks!
The OP plight is understandable, however at very best it's a bit 'green' to have the mindset that every mmorpg that comes out to be a polished completed project of work. In fact, every mmorpg that has come out has been an ever evolving work in progress.
I also noticed there was no auction house or way to selling to other players, no in-game mailing / postal system to send friends messages or items / money while they are not online, no mounts, no large areas for role-play, no player housing, limited emotes, no way to looking at other players armor & gear, no camp fires or ways of setting up a small base in the war zone, etc - but I wasn't shocked to see any of these missing by a long shot.
The game is new and is still under development while we are leveling up. All the other things will come in time, just be patient.
I agree with the other posters, this game doesn't have degree of bugs, glitches, and problems that many other mmorpgs had at their launch. While there are some minor issues, they in no way prohibit one from playing the game and enjoying it.
Eve-Online, EQ2, DnL, SWG (Dead), Guild Wars, Anarchy Online, EQ, DAoC, Planet Side, WoW, LOTR, Tabula Rasa.
The last 3 posts summed up what i was going to say heh
Edit:
I dont see how mmo's are ever complete, i thought that is why there is the msg "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" ?? End User Agreements??
If online games came complete, we would have no Expansions. No game updates, patches, new content what-so-ever...
If you want a "complete" game, then sadly i dont think you should be shopping in the online department.
Rexx
15 bucks a month is not free
I love people like the OP his has selective memory.. Wow had just as many bugs and just as many lag issues. Its just been so long that you forget all of the problems Wow had because its on fresh on your mind.. Then you come on here and claim that blizzard did something extra or better then they launched WoW... Well they didnt. Its the simple... Give the TR devs some time to fix the bugs and make new content and in a few years you will move on to a new MMO and claim why cant they be more like TR when they launched...