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Why I'm scared for the Bioware MMO (which is probably Star Wars)
KatanOmega
Member Posts: 51
I was happy about the prospect of a Bioware/Star Wars MMO. Now I'm not so sure.
Have you guys played Mass Effect?
While yes the story is great and I did have fun playing through it. The technical side of the game is a mess.
How did Bioware let their triple A title and new original IP get released in this condition.
The texture pop ins and outs are a plague on this game. This is pretty common in Unreal Engine 3 games but in Mass Effect it is especially bad.
The frame rate is almost never constant, slow down occurs so much that in combat you actually think that you've been hit with a slow attack but then realize you just dropped to 6 fps.
The AI is horrible, your squad is pretty much worthless and if you depend on them they will get you killed. The enemy AI seems to consist of taking cover or rushing you and bashing you in the face. Which is fine if they would have given you a response for this. Unfortunatly though 9 times out of 10 there are multiple enemies rushing you at the same time and you are screwed. As I said before don't expect any help from your squad because 9 times out of 10 they will be blocked.
It seems that with everything Mass Effect did right on the creative side (Score, Story, Character Interaction) it did something wrong on the technical side of the game. I'm amazed it's getting the high marks it has from reviewers, calling these issues a minor inconvienece. Are they high?
Anyway I'm just saying I'm starting to think that Bioware might not be the best company to release an MMO if they are going to release games in this condition. Especially not a Star Wars game.
[url=www.angry-gamers.net][sigpic]
By katanomega at 2009-03-11[/sigpic][/url]
Comments
Didn't Bioware indicate that they are more interested in developing their own Intellectual Property, indicating that they are NOT making a Star Wars game?
Having said that, I trust they will be able to get their act together for whatever they are doing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They have said that, but then again, it was also said that supposedly they would never work again with LA because of how strict they are... and yet, they partnered up again. So who knows really.
I found this on the official Bioware forums a while back, and it pretty much answers your question, as it seems Bioware has retracted their previous statements about only wanting to work on their own IP's etc...
http://forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=473550&forum=41&sp=105
Game Owner
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
From: El Paso
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Joined: 13 Sep 2004
From: Austin, Texas
And yes, my comments about focusing on existing BioWare intellectual properties were pre-MMO announcement.
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It really is that simple.
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now.
We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
I'm not surprised with BioWare having such a bugged release.
Their most famous effort, Knights of the Old Republic (1, not 2, since another company did KoTOR2), was severely bug-ridden on release. It took quite a while for BW to square it away. However, fans and reviewers loved it despite the sheer amount of bugs.
Neverwinter Nights was bug-ridden on release also.
BioWare has been rather hit or miss when it comes to bug-free releases.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I was wondering if u have played the game .... i have pass it 5 times now, and dind enconter any thing u have say here ... my squad have save me about 1001 times, but they arent perfect i know but not as bad as u say about them.
I dont know if u ever listen to some ppl of game sites and other review saying this is the first game that give us the experience of the new game genarasion ?
The only enemy that have rush on me was the krogan warlord, and i have played the game on easy, veteran and hardcore.
I play games since the old spectrum and this is by far the best game i ever played in my live, simply beutiful
Sorry for my english not my native lang
I found this on the official Bioware forums a while back, and it pretty much answers your question, as it seems Bioware has retracted their previous statements about only wanting to work on their own IP's etc...
http://forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=473550&forum=41&sp=105
Game Owner
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
From: El Paso
_________________
Let me put it this way; in an attic somewhere theres a portrait of you getting pretier.
Community Coordinator
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: My throne atop a mound of skulls
_________________
Leading the fight to prevent Household Monks.
Designer
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
From: Austin, Texas
And yes, my comments about focusing on existing BioWare intellectual properties were pre-MMO announcement.
_________________
It really is that simple.
I was around during those days on the forums. Glad you dug that up because I remember it well. You can't rule out anything at this point, except D&D.
I really think that people are blowing these technical issues a bit out of proportion. I've run through the game almost three times, now, and I've locked up at most, three times. It really is a minor inconvenience, in my opinion. Sure, it can be a pain in the ass, but I've locked up on a ton of other X-Box 360 games that have scored high in reviews, as well. Most Bioware games that I own, have their share of bugs, Knights of the Old Republic included. Sure, they could have spent a few more months hammering out the texture bugs and framerate issues, but at what cost? They'd just dumb down the graphics, and give the never-happy gamers something else to complain about.
On another note, the game can't be THAT bad in the eyes of the buyers. It's been on sale for a short time and it's already sold over 1,000,000 copies. I really think that you're making mountains out of mole hills, here. I don't see any legitimate argument in any of the points you made to make me worried for the Bioware MMO. Mass Effect would had very few testers for how expansive the game was. MMOs almost always have their Beta Tests where you have thousands of people playing. Even if you get a few hundred people out of those thousands, you're still getting quality control.
Um you're worried about the BioWare MMO because of Mass Effect?
I think I'd be a tad more worried about the EA bug...
Research the history of EA's MMO's or the ones they've bought... then you can start to worry.
[quote]Originally posted by Fion
Originally posted by KatanOmega
What really worries me about Bioware's MMOG? This article;
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15386
Where the games co-director basically says the only way to make a successful MMOG after WoW is to make the simplest most basic game possible, and to treat players like mindless dullards who don't want any real choice, want their hands held through every bit of content and who are to dumb to actually know what they want at all. Oh and that the best company to make a MMOG is one that has absolutely no experience at all. Ah huh, he's a popus ass and I fear the Bioware game is going to suck monkey balls simply because it will be designed for the lowest common denominator and anyone with half a mind need not apply.
Couldn't have said it better myself
It's sad really because developers who think this way are starting to turn me off of gaming. Then again I can see it as a god send because then I can focus on more productive activities. I do hope Bioware's MMO doesn't become as simplistic as you make it sound because I really do want a good sci fi mmo and my hops are that Bioware will deliver.
I am worried. Once Bioware goes downhill in 2 years because of EA"s power mad VP's that will give another studio a chance to rise up. Kinda sad.
Texture Popping is a problem in the UE3 engine and is seen in all UE3 games. Though I agree it is a bigger issue in ME then most.
Framerate issue is do to the limitations of the Xbox360. Even with a field of view of like 50 in their games these days, the system just cant handle the graphical excellence that gamers are asking for.
AI is horrible because consoles suck at AI. Why? Because so much of their processing power is used to push graphics as high as possible, theres barely any flops left over for complex AI. This was something many industry insiders were warning about when the 360 and PS3 were in development. Now we are seeing it happen.
Oh and the reviewers aren't 'high' they got paid to give the game a high score. Example? See Halo 3 reviews on metacritic.com. MS's 9 million dolor 'ad campaign' also made sure it got a bunch of %100 ratings, no matter how much the solo campaign sucked and the multiplayer simply a shadow of former self.
(and yes I am a biased 'elitist' PC gamer)
Do I expect technical problems in Bioware's MMOG? You bet your ass. It's an MMOG. Technical problems and bugs are the name of the game. As polished as it is out of the game it is unavoidable.
What really worries me about Bioware's MMOG? This article;
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=15386
Where the games co-director basically says the only way to make a successful MMOG after WoW is to make the simplest most basic game possible, and to treat players like mindless dullards who don't want any real choice, want their hands held through every bit of content and who are to dumb to actually know what they want at all. Oh and that the best company to make a MMOG is one that has absolutely no experience at all. Ah huh, he's a popus ass and I fear the Bioware game is going to suck monkey balls simply because it will be designed for the lowest common denominator and anyone with half a mind need not apply.
Its these "dullards" as you call that now pay the way in gaming you only have to look at the uk tv adds for the 360 to see that they are desperatly trying to atract "the casual gamer" nintendo has really forced this issue and while it may not directly be related to MMO's en masse its going to be a big factor from now on.The hardcore game is gone deal with it and move on its the simpler game that will win the war now and this will please the moneymen
The big fact is yes games that are more 'causal' or games anyone can really sit down and play are the way to go. Lets face it this year alone has shown that there are more gamers now then before. The Wii and Nintendo DS are making a killing. Halo 3 made more money on it's first day and first week then any of the movies that have come out this year. And well this year has given Gamers a ton of great titles, but there's a few things I've kinda seen over the past year and a half...
The first being games are getting somewhat 'dumbed' down. Look at Rainbow 6:Vegas, it really doesn't play like the old Rainbow 6 titles, it's story and plot is more like something from 24, and the game play is MUCH faster then the old Rainbow 6 titles. Command and Conquer 3 and World in Conflict are dare I say, much more easy to get into then other RTS titles. C&C 3 is much faster, and World in Conflict is to a point as well. Hell the two big MMO's out there are WoW and Second Life. I hate saying it but I have tried out WoW in the last two weeks and ya know... I like it! Easy to get into, easy to play, the grind isn't as bad as any of the other MMO grinds have been. And Second Life, well I have friends who really enjoy it...
See I feel that those making the games are tired of dealing with the whole hardcore mindset. It's not just SWG, look at Fallout 3. Here we have a game that's coming out next year, and if you look at the games forums you'll see a ton of posts about 'why' Fallout 3 will suck. Yes you do have people giving a "Lets wait and see." but hell it looks like the SWG forums sometimes.
Hardcore Gamers are going to have to start being more open and willing about the games coming out. I've said it before in the case of SWG, the Pre-CU was a somewhat good system... However it just wasn't the 'right' system for a Star Wars game. Yes you'll have the sandbox games, but I'm sorry it's going to be a nitch market for them. That's not a bad thing at all, however the games that will be based on big name IP's will most likely be easy to play and get into games, aimed at everybody rather then a few.
Like I said, none of this is a bad thing... Granted you will get cases like SWG, and really I'm glad in someways SWG has been messed up... Yeah I know that sounds bad, but think and look at it this way. Now other Dev's can look at everything that went wrong with SWG from the start and not make the same moves that those working on SWG did.
Flame away.
This is really blown out of proportion to be fair to Bioware. I have completed the game three times now and completed all the quests in the game so feel somewhat qualified to answer this. Yes there are texture pop ins and outs but they are very minor and few and far between.
Frame rate drop I have only experienced a couple of times whilst playing the game and have never experienced it in battle (normally frame rate drop occurs just after the console has loaded a new area into memory).
Are you sure you have actually played this game? The AI is bloody good in my opinion. The only issues I have found is a few pathing issues with team members getting stuck, aside from that, certainly my team members behave exactly as I would expect and like them to.
Yes the creative side of the game is awesome but then so is the battle engine, there really is nothing as satisfying as maxing out your adept skills and throwing your enemies around the screen like rag dolls!
It rightly has high marks simply because it is trully an immersive gaming experience. If they bring half of that immersion to a mmorpg, I for one will be a happy gamer.
The only gripe I would have is that perhaps the game is not long enough (certainly it isnt in the same league as Oblivion when it comes to content) .
If anyone doubts Biowares credentials to create an MMORPG, try to remember how good BG2 (probably the best RPG ever created in my humble opinion) was and is.
My only problem is that Bioware has to partner with LucasArts to even allow the notion that there maybe a New Star Wars MMO in the future. Most believe that Lucasarts was the WoW clone influence that caused the NGE in the first place. Oh well, its their license , if they want to use it like toilet paper, its up to them. Its up to us to make sure it gets flushed.
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You'd think Lucasarts would've learned from their MANY mistakes in the past. Star Wars Desktop Adventures??? Star Wars: Teras Kasi Masters??? (Ters Kasi Masters was when the street fighter craze came along, it was a joke) It really makes you wonder what the heck they're smoking whenever they come up with these ideas. I do hope though that Lucas arts will stay at a distance, or better yet, just back off completely and let professional, more qualified people do the job.
Well, partially.
Does anyone remember the CU? During the time of the CU there were some different models put on the table...
Two of those were the "CU" and the "NGE". Well, the CU was accepted and the NGE supposedly "scrapped". SOE, kept developing the NGE - even without the knowledge of the community managers and some key developers. When the "CU" failed to bring back as many people as they liked, they published the NGE.
My theory is their thinking was like this:
"Ok, we've rebalanced and put in the combat upgrade, but more people are subscribing to WoW. We're Star Wars dammit! We should have all those subscribers! Where was the WoW-model combat upgrade? Put it in so we can be like Wow!!!"
Greed killed SWG. Pure greed. Sometimes I wonder if LucasArts DID ok this.
As far as LucasArts, I know that new games, ideas, and storylines (as of about 2 years ago), now have to be personally approved by George Lucas. I'd say that the failures that have been made in the gaming industry with the IP caught his eye more than once.
I agree on LA comments concernin' their negative influence on games developed by other companies as seen in SWG and infamous NGE fiasco.
that said. I beleive LA should only approve and not influence the development of certain features or ideas. they can't just jump in and say let there be jedi for everyone! that's what happened to SWG and that's exaclty why it failed IMO.
I'll tell you why I don't want Bioware to make a Star Wars mmo. Because you'd have the SWG "pre-CU vets" crying on Biowares' forums because Bioware didn't make "their" game the way "they" wanted it. So you just end up giving the crybabies ( how many years has it been now? ) yet one more community to harass and ruin the experience for.
Just my $.02 on the issue.
Random thoughts....
I must have a magical version or a supped up Xbox or some shit...never once had a probelm with Mass effect, and have played through it more times than I care to mention. My only problem was it was way too short and as of yet there hasn't been anything neww added to it via live. paid for or otherwise.
I think everyone wants a deep experiance....but deep experiance dosen't neccasrily mean bleed for every inch and jump through hoops.
Is Bioware doing Kotoro? I have zero clue and two of my bestest freinds are employees of Bioware (they are that tight lipped) Personally I hope they are...... Simply because I know that there will be zero tollerance for some of the shit that was allowed in the SOE SWG community,, and they want have two idiots standing besides a flag as a "mission".
With opinions like that do you get change?
I'm not worried, i've beat mass effect 3 times and i'm still not bored with it. Speaking of this MMO, I've heard it's actually a Sonic MMO.....