Let me start out by saying that Ive been following this game for quite some time. Im a huge fan of WAR and ofmmos in general. My first being shadowbane and from there I played Star Wars Galaxies, DAOC, and WoW.
Now in every mmo Ive played there have crowd control abilities. You know them as seduce, stun, mesmerize, fear, sheep, roots, silences and slows (slows to attack speed/casting/run speed). Im a little concerned that there will be no Crowd Control in WAR. Im not sure if it will game breaking but crowd control just seems like that one thing that should always be there.
For instance, my mage in wow...theres so much CC I dont know where to start. I can steal other peoples buffs and hots, I can silence, I can freeze people in place, I can slow them and there attacks and last not but not least I can Sheep them. I just cant immagine what a fight would be like between me and a warrior if we were both playing with no cc whatsoever. I bolt him, he keeps running, I bolt him again, he keeps running, I decide to run and he never catches me or I decide to hold my ground and he gets to me and 3 shots me.
With no cc, it just feels like that is taking half the strategy out of pvp. What do you guys think?
It's sad that people these days cannot see past the horizons of World of Warcraft.
Also sad that the OP says that he cannot imagine what a fight would be like with no CC whatsoever.
This shows a serious lack of MMO experience -- and I blame WoW for this.
Back in old Asheron's Call, there was NO crowd control whatsoever. None. No snares, no mez, nothing. You could vuln someone so that they would take more damage -- but do nothing at all to control the other player.
And, Asheron's Call had some of the most exciting PvP action ever made.
Probably because instead of stopping or preventing players from fighting through CC methods, they let them fight.
~~~
I just wish people would get their heads out of that hole in the ground called World of Warcraft and actually realize and experience a wider variety of MMORPGs.
I remember Asherons call. To make up for the lack of CC, casters and ranged pcs would hide in buildings in town, and just shoot or cast on you through the walls. Going to town was hazardous to your health, no guards to help you, no non-pvp zones, just a bunch of DD undodgeable, unresistable spells, throwing knives, arrows flying at you. Try and make it to the 3rd floor before you HP is gone, lol. I think game developers have learned from their mistakes, or just aren't stupid or lazy enough to make the same ones any more.
Applying WoW classes and abilities to WAR mechcanics simply doesnt work. Whats the point in the comparison. You really have to stop comparing the two and stop trying to rationalise your WoW knowledge onto what they are doing in WAR.
There is cc in the game from the list that you called CC. There are very limited long term CC effects tho.
There are knockbacks, knockdowns, Throws (good and bad), slows, roots, Blinds (which really make the screen dark and smokey), etc , etc.
So to say there is no CC is off however there is no long term CC (and really in wow pvp there is none so...) DAOC had some serious ones?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
No crowd control? No one sided battles? Count me in!!!! People actually get to control their characters in battle will definetly put excitement back into the game, might even be epic battles instead of whole sale slaughter....COOL!
Im surprised at how popular this thread was. Thanks for putting your two cents in. It was definitely much more interesting to read than it was to write the initial post.
At least 10 of you need to actually read thru the posts. It has been stated over and over again that there will be "SOME" Crowd Control. I initially was not aware of that fact but was made aware maybe 2 pages into the post. So why are there still people who beleive there will be no CC in WAR? Read the whole thread. Its not that many pages long.
To the melee, I cant help that Im a caster at heart. I hope you all die at range before you get a chance to swing on me.
excellent thread to be honest. crowd control can come in many forms, and in some games its way to powerful and others useless, but having low end crowd control will force pvp'rs to find new and probably more interesting tactics. Ive been watching war for the last few months and am excited about release dates. I cant get into beta but am willing to wait either way.
I alpha/beta'd fury before I quit playing it and I can tell you, crowd control there was extremely easy with the over powered ae stun skills and such, I'd hate to see long term CC, never have been a fan of it and I play just about any class in games, so I try to learn ways around it.
For alot of those who posted, this was an excellent thread to read on the subject. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Playing: Not much actively. Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001 --------------------------
Coming from DAOC as a sorcerer and having my I WIN button (aoe-mez) was great but to be honest it wasnt all it was cracked up to be. Casters at range were great but get in there face and the game was over for them. From that standpoint it felt very unfair.
Going from DAOC to WoW and playing casters that could actually get off a cast vs a melee in combat and having so many get away skills/cc, spoiled me in terms of CC. I wrote this thread because coming from that game, it colored my opinion to such a degree that I couldnt immagine having no cc (I understand there is some) and to be honest even less CC in a game scares me.
CC for me is sort of like side dishes and condiments in a meal. The original meal, lets say Lasagna is great. But add some parmesean, a loaf of sourdough bread, a caesar salada and some wine and its EVEN BETTER.
WoW in this respect did this great. You have your basic melee/caster and stealth classes. PvP with that alone would be fun. But add in a warriors charge, a mages iceblock, a warlocks fear, a druids ability to break out of movement impairing effects, a couple racials and a trinket and the game of PvP has ALOT more flavor.
This is definately a good thread on an interesting topic. Characters that are built around CC are much, much too powerful in most PVP situtions and can ruin the fun for others. So when I read that Warhammer was spreading all the CC out among every class I was thrilled. Additionally, making the powerful abilities Morale abilities is very nice.
Another theme I'm getting from the devs is that no one is really squishy. Even the mages can stand in and take a few hits before they go down. In a sense, everyone is built for WAR. Try not to let preconceived notions from other games slip in here. You will not be 1 or 2 shotted by anyone. (from my understanding)
Watching videos and reading interviews combat seems to resolve a bit slower and thus becomes more strategic as opposed to twitch. With the lack of one or two classes being CC kings this will require players to work together more to accomplish a goal.
To me, it looks like they are replacing heavy CC with good strategy and teamwork. (COLLISION DETECTION!!!!!11one) Doesn't sound boring to me!
<p>Grif just said it but I would like to add to that in War caster classes are not like wow and will not be 1 or 2 shotted in melee. Quite a few of them are able to stand toe to toe with melee damage classes. Comparison with how the War system works with WoW is like apples and oranges.</p>
Comments
It's sad that people these days cannot see past the horizons of World of Warcraft.
Also sad that the OP says that he cannot imagine what a fight would be like with no CC whatsoever.
This shows a serious lack of MMO experience -- and I blame WoW for this.
Back in old Asheron's Call, there was NO crowd control whatsoever. None. No snares, no mez, nothing. You could vuln someone so that they would take more damage -- but do nothing at all to control the other player.
And, Asheron's Call had some of the most exciting PvP action ever made.
Probably because instead of stopping or preventing players from fighting through CC methods, they let them fight.
~~~
I just wish people would get their heads out of that hole in the ground called World of Warcraft and actually realize and experience a wider variety of MMORPGs.
I remember Asherons call. To make up for the lack of CC, casters and ranged pcs would hide in buildings in town, and just shoot or cast on you through the walls. Going to town was hazardous to your health, no guards to help you, no non-pvp zones, just a bunch of DD undodgeable, unresistable spells, throwing knives, arrows flying at you. Try and make it to the 3rd floor before you HP is gone, lol. I think game developers have learned from their mistakes, or just aren't stupid or lazy enough to make the same ones any more.
Applying WoW classes and abilities to WAR mechcanics simply doesnt work. Whats the point in the comparison. You really have to stop comparing the two and stop trying to rationalise your WoW knowledge onto what they are doing in WAR.
There is cc in the game from the list that you called CC. There are very limited long term CC effects tho.
There are knockbacks, knockdowns, Throws (good and bad), slows, roots, Blinds (which really make the screen dark and smokey), etc , etc.
So to say there is no CC is off however there is no long term CC (and really in wow pvp there is none so...) DAOC had some serious ones?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Im surprised at how popular this thread was. Thanks for putting your two cents in. It was definitely much more interesting to read than it was to write the initial post.
At least 10 of you need to actually read thru the posts.
It has been stated over and over again that there will be "SOME" Crowd Control. I initially was not aware of that fact but was made aware maybe 2 pages into the post. So why are there still people who beleive there will be no CC in WAR? Read the whole thread. Its not that many pages long.
To the melee, I cant help that Im a caster at heart.
I hope you all die at range before you get a chance to swing on me.
excellent thread to be honest. crowd control can come in many forms, and in some games its way to powerful and others useless, but having low end crowd control will force pvp'rs to find new and probably more interesting tactics. Ive been watching war for the last few months and am excited about release dates. I cant get into beta but am willing to wait either way.
I alpha/beta'd fury before I quit playing it and I can tell you, crowd control there was extremely easy with the over powered ae stun skills and such, I'd hate to see long term CC, never have been a fan of it and I play just about any class in games, so I try to learn ways around it.
For alot of those who posted, this was an excellent thread to read on the subject. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Playing: Not much actively.
Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001
--------------------------
Just as a side comment.
Coming from DAOC as a sorcerer and having my I WIN button (aoe-mez) was great but to be honest it wasnt all it was cracked up to be. Casters at range were great but get in there face and the game was over for them. From that standpoint it felt very unfair.
Going from DAOC to WoW and playing casters that could actually get off a cast vs a melee in combat and having so many get away skills/cc, spoiled me in terms of CC. I wrote this thread because coming from that game, it colored my opinion to such a degree that I couldnt immagine having no cc (I understand there is some) and to be honest even less CC in a game scares me.
CC for me is sort of like side dishes and condiments in a meal.
The original meal, lets say Lasagna is great. But add some parmesean, a loaf of sourdough bread, a caesar salada and some wine and its EVEN BETTER.
WoW in this respect did this great. You have your basic melee/caster and stealth classes. PvP with that alone would be fun. But add in a warriors charge, a mages iceblock, a warlocks fear, a druids ability to break out of movement impairing effects, a couple racials and a trinket and the game of PvP has ALOT more flavor.
This is definately a good thread on an interesting topic. Characters that are built around CC are much, much too powerful in most PVP situtions and can ruin the fun for others. So when I read that Warhammer was spreading all the CC out among every class I was thrilled. Additionally, making the powerful abilities Morale abilities is very nice.
Another theme I'm getting from the devs is that no one is really squishy. Even the mages can stand in and take a few hits before they go down. In a sense, everyone is built for WAR. Try not to let preconceived notions from other games slip in here. You will not be 1 or 2 shotted by anyone. (from my understanding)
Watching videos and reading interviews combat seems to resolve a bit slower and thus becomes more strategic as opposed to twitch. With the lack of one or two classes being CC kings this will require players to work together more to accomplish a goal.
To me, it looks like they are replacing heavy CC with good strategy and teamwork. (COLLISION DETECTION!!!!!11one) Doesn't sound boring to me!
-- Griff
<p>Grif just said it but I would like to add to that in War caster classes are not like wow and will not be 1 or 2 shotted in melee. Quite a few of them are able to stand toe to toe with melee damage classes. Comparison with how the War system works with WoW is like apples and oranges.</p>