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A Question To Evangelicals
War_Eagle
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472
If you're an evangelical and reading this, please do not take offense. I am asking this out of honest curiosity.
There is something I just cannot understand. It's the way that evangelicals vote in this country. I've been watching this whole deal with Huckabee and it makes no sense to me why someone would not consider voting for someone if they are not a fellow evangelical.
Honestly, here's the way I look at it. I am a Jew, but I could care less if the person who is in the White House is a card carrying atheist/agnostic/jew/christian/buddhist/blah blah blah or whatever. As long as when it's his/her turn to make a decision he falls back on the ideals of lower or no direct taxes, increasing individuals abilities to make their own decisions without intervention, and just a sense of leave people the f*ck alone for pete's sake.
Why would it matter what religion a person is if they will stand up for what is protected to us in the Bill of Rights? Yet you see this Huckabee guy who has no interest in original intent on things that really matter to us all.
I was listening to Rush Limbaugh this morning and even he is not to keen on this Huckabee guy. I don't think I want him to be my President. He seems like the same old song and dance with a different name pasted on it. He's not going to lower taxes, decrease spending, or work on getting the government out of our lives.
So why vote for him just because he is an evangelical???? Wouldn't you rather have someone who instead turns to the Bill of Rights as their guide?
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Comments
Maybe because they like him?
I'm guessing by your name that you're a southerner and in that case have probably gotten a lot of experience with evangelicals and I'm in the same boat as you.
As for why Huckabee...I've been predicting that he was going to win the christian right's vote for a while now, especially here in the South. He's just cut from that same mold in a way that none of the other candidates can match. I also think Huckabee represents a turning point in the Republican party...before this election the fiscal conservatives have been able to use the religious right to get their candidates elected...now it's backfiring on them and the Republican party is being forced to choose between conservative candidates and a candidate that appeals to the Christian right.
That said, he's a heck of a lot more articulate than George W. Bush which makes him much more tolerable to me as a Democrat
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
Seriously. I'm not saying all that to sound sarcastic. That's what he stands for.
Which leads me back to my question you didn't care to elaborate on. WHY???
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remember Iowa is a pretty religious state, so he will naturally do better than most areas.
New Hampshire is a more secular state, and he's polling semi-low there. McCain is leading in New Hampshire in terms of polls.
I don't want that any more. I had some high hopes for this election. I'm really getting let down from what I've seen so far.
Do American's even care about self-reliance and freedom any more? I am beginning to think that if the patriots of the Revolution would have been able to see what we are doing to what they gave us, they would all have dropped their guns and just gone back home in shame.
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Why does religion matter when voting for a President? Shouldn't what matters be what he plans to do about our rights and freedoms while in office. I don't care who he prays to or doesn't pray to. I just want him to do a good job as President.
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Why does religion matter when voting for a President? Shouldn't what matters be what he plans to do about our rights and freedoms while in office. I don't care who he prays to or doesn't pray to. I just want him to do a good job as President.
I'm just saying, people vote for people who are most like them. Evangelical people are probably pretty common in what they think about in politics. The stuff you mentioned are political positions (although you added some of your own spin to it).
Saying they are only voting for him because he's evangelical is an oversimplification I think.
I think it's more that Evangelicals have similar views on many different things, so they vote for him.
its not as bad a romney who no one will vote for because he's mormon, but the phrase that i like when JFK got elected was the pope moved into the whitehouse basement.
Certain sects of any religion have what may or may not be viewed as singular or entirely oddball views on some issues.
Like there are common conceptions about mormons and polygamy and catholics and abortions.
I personally would not want to put someone in a place to vote, or veto a bill that they intellectually or personally would go for or against, but their religious upbringing makes them feel that they would betray their family and religion if they voted that way.
I just dont want to put someone in that decision, My rule of thumb on politicians and religion is like with judges if when they put on the robe they put all that aside ill support them.(I know this actually doesn't work but if their not quoting scripture all the time, or if its not obvious in other ways i can pretend)
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
which is completely untrue... he is getting 25% of the vote (2nd place) in Iowa right now.
oh, and everyone is underestimating the Chuck Norris factor.
I think it has a lot to do with people not knowing what is important these days.
It doesn't take too much to get American's worked up. You get them to thinking that there is some big threat coming from something that in all reality is meaningless to them and they will run to the polls.
Just look at what gets people going nuts these days. You mention religion, gays, or abortion, and you will get folks crawling over themselves to get their opinions heard. When honestly, none of those really have any effect on someone unless you let it.
I will practice my religion no matter what anyone says to me. It's something that is personal and I like it that way. I don't need a big crowd making me feel like a majority cheering me on as I worship. And I ESPECIALLY don't need the government to endorse my choice on belief.
I don't see how gays have any effect on me or my future as well. I'm not going to not marry because gays can. I'm not going to become gay because gays can marry. Nobody has ever been able to give me an adequate explanation to this whole issue and how they say it has an effect on others. The only thing I've ever heard is, "God says it's wrong". Well, I don't believe that. And I also don't think it's anyone's place to force their religion on someone else. This is just a matter of people wanting to use government to force other people to conform. If you want to completely settle this issue then get the government out of the marriage recognition business and make it a religious bond.
And on abortion, this should have been left up to the states. I agree with that. But you know what? So... I would not plan on having a child with someone who thought abortion is good. Ain't much more of that any of my business when it comes to others. If they want to go kill their baby, then they can explain their situation to God. I am not getting in the middle of that choice. Besides that, there are actually some religions that do not consider abortion murder. Like Judaism.
But a lot of evangelicals have learned to use the government to their authoritative whims. And it's always really hard to convince people to let go of the grip they have on you once they have it.
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I'm sure it has to do with ethics and morals. If someone is of a similar religious background, they are much more likely to have a similar ethical and moral viewpoint.
Yeah it really likely is just the fact that being a fellow evangelist means he likely holds the same set of values as they do. This means they're basically voting for someone who thinks like them and therefore is probably the best representative of their interests.
In fact, that's probably one of the best reasons to vote for someone.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
It's the same reason that some people won't vote for someone unless they are a republican or a democrat...people feel as though voting for a certain person will give their people-group better representation in washington. Whether or not you agree with that notion is up for grabs.
As far as Huckabee goes...I won't be voting for him. Huckabee is an advocate of spending a great deal of taxpayer money for social programs to help 'those in need" and uses his status as a Christian to justify his voting record. The problem that I have with this is that the Bible says that a person who gives their money to help out those in need should do so willingly, and that forcing someone to do so completely negates any good that God sees in the act of giving. A person who is forced to give a million dollars does less in the eyes of God than someone who gives a hundred dollars willingly...whether or not the world sees it the same way. Basically what I'm saying is that Huckabee votes in favor of things that force people to give money to the government for social programs, and he uses his faith to justify himself...but it's actually contradictory to what the Bible says.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Because "seperation of church and state" doesn't fit in with the neo-xtian agenda.
These guys want their personal beliefs enforced on you once they get into office.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I consider myself an evangelical christian and I am not voting for Huckebee. True, he's the most conservative out there (well..one of the most) but I dont like some of his policies and tactics
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Although I don't call myself evangelical, I have been called it before.
I like what Mike Huckabee has to say about common-sense decision making. With all the campaign promises, all we can do is hope they will do what they say they will do. Prior to his entry into the race, I wasn't planning on voting for anyone, Republican or Democrat. I don't believe our American political system is the be-all, end-all of world decision making either. Even within our own government, the judicial branch has flexed more policy/lawmaking muscle than the House of Representatives and the President combined.
It doesn't seem to me the original poster is geniunely concerned with seeing this or any other viewpoint so this post is more or less for the benefit of the other readers. It appears the originator would like to position Christans (such as myself) as fanatical, irrational sheep who will follow any leader who identifies themself as Christian. This is not the case. Christians are not followers of mankind. They talk to, listen to, and follow God. What does God say about politics? Among other things, "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36). So while us Americans are playing silly-buggers pretending we're better and more special than anyone else in the world, I think it's important to look at the big picture as to Who really is in charge and how we're treated God's children. God's children are all of us, are not confined to political boarders or stupid catagories we tend to place each other in. Listen to the candidates closely. Listen to your heart, soul, talk with God. Then vote the one who seems to follow what is right. Participate to the best of your ability, but in the end, it all happens according to His plan.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
I lived in Iowa for several years. Trust me, it's not that religious.
If Iowa is anything, it's working class. There aren't many major cities and nothing on the scale of Chicago or Kansas City Missouri. Most people in Iowa are rural laborers of one sort or another, factory, farm work, or construction. This means that two thirds of Iowas population are seasonal workers with little to do during the winter.
Yes many people go to church and wot not, but that's more social than religious. The overly pious are generally scoffed at just as hard, if not harder, than in the rest of the country. Religion is considered a personal thing and missionaries showing up at someone's door or preaching on street corners isn't just frowned upon, it's proscribed. In all my years in Iowa, the only time I ran into public preaching was in the form of an anti abortion van with the graphic picture of a dead fetus on the side of it. That van created quite a bit of public outcry BTW. Even people that were openly anti-abortion felt that was too extreme for uninvited public display.
I can understand why those who are religious vote for others of the same religion (or mostly. But the OP has to understand a few things before I get into that topic.
Jews don't care what religion they vote for for a number of different reasons. For on, religion doesn't matter as much to the jews, as far as politics are concerned. Perhaps some orthodox jews would decide that jews in the government would be something to push for, but ultimately I think jews -- especially american jews-- are more accepting of other religions and thereby see past a religious barrier.
Now understand me, I'm not saying ONLY jews do this, but I am saying minority religions accept other religions moreso then christians do.
Christians often put on campaigns for others to become christian, like everyone MUST be unified. Thats a whole different argument altogether though.
However bringing this all together, when devout christians see other christians in office, I would think they could look at ideals in a basic sense of them being "christian" ideals. So, when you see a president that says "I'm a christian." You figure that they have the same christian values as you do. Well if he's a christian he stands for what I stand for, and therefore we're after the same things.
Thats not always the case, and people that aren't too political and don't get into depth with it, vote for the choice that they would feel best resembles themselves, I would suppose.
Take my post for what you will, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone for what religion they practice, (or don't practice) and ultimately in the end, we're all created equal.
I wonder if people have actually gone back and taken a look at Huckabee's record as governor. I don't think people do. I think they just get awash in the whole, "Oooooooh, he's a Christian", crap that they don't even begin to think that just being a Christian doesn't make you a great American President.
He is historically a big spending, big government, raise your taxes so we can help all of you politician. I don't want any more of that in Washington. Haven't people seen enough of it?
I've got nothing against Christians or any other religion for that matter. I really don't care if a person who was from my own religion of Judaism was running, I wouldn't vote for him if he wasn't going to shrink the influence of Washington on all of us.
I am completely and utterly stumped at how religion makes any difference at all when it comes to presidential decision making.
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It's only recently that this whole behemoth of the federal government has come about. And I haven't seen too many of this line of evangelical Presidents do much to really shrink that influence.
Are you saying you would rather have a big spending evangelical than a minimal government non-religious person?
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I consider myself an evangelical christian and I am not voting for Huckebee. True, he's the most conservative out there (well..one of the most) but I dont like some of his policies and tactics
He's actually not that conservative. I consider conservatism something from the Goldwater era. That's traditional conservatism. He doesn't follow that mantra at all. His record as governor proves it.
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Why not vote to get someone in office who expects you to get off your butt and do it for yourself. That's who I vote for to get into office. Not someone who take a populist stance and tells you he will get you what you want from the money he's stolen from people through taxation.
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I believe it was the Reagan era that Republican's went after the Evangelical vote. Unfortunately most them aren't interested in fiscal conservatism, the Bill of Rights or the right of the individuals to be left a lone. "Conservatism" to them mean's conserving the Christian tradition in the public arena (including the Government). As such, the Christian Coalition part of the Republican Party is a special interest group that wants something from Government (namely for Christianity to remain prominent in our Government).