True, there are many potentially good MMOs coming out in the next couple of years but does anyone else get a feeling that MMOs today are just plain crap? I dont know...Im getting that feeling. Anyone else feeling this way?
*Laughs*
No, not even close.
There are probably 50 times as many people playing MMORPGs now than were playing in the first couple of years of MMORPG. Who knows, maybe even more.
If anything, MMORPGs are becoming the dominant form of interactive gameplay. I pretty much no longer buy Single Player RPGs or Single Player FPS anymore. They all seem dead and lifeless now.
"Look, good against remotes is one thing. Good against a living? That's something else."
The mmo world has been tainted and moulded into something else. It started out a big playground where your only limits where what you could think up. See EVE, SWG and Ryzom for these types - ie sandbox stuff WOW - has a lot to answer for. It changed the MMO world and turned it upside down. Its bred the new breed of uberpwnz gamers, the mmo chat room channels, all the bad things of mmo (althought most already there) WOW just made it so this was the "thing" to do - to get from A to B or to get that top end armour. Wow bred that state of mind also, that must be first, must be the best and must be the most aggressive in open chat. Again these were already there in the mmo world it just got heightend and brought out in masses due the system wow worked around. Also it set the bar so high for any other mmo - all these other companies are now either comepeting for a slice of the wow market or trying to spin it and come up with something original. With the something original this is a hit and miss process. Youll either hit it on the head or you will fail miserably. And then theres the middle of the roaders - LOTRO, VG, COH, GW If they were released before WOW they would be the major players, but theyve each in their own right tried to copy the wow format to some degree and whilst not bombed they havent made it either adn never will to the extent of wow. I personally wish WOW had never even been thought up as a mmo, its clever and does what it says on the tin and i take my hat of to blizzard it is a good game, but what happened the mmo market isnt. Its like monoplised the market and that in any field of commerce is never a good thing for the industry. So whilst I await all the wow fanbois to attack this post (yawn whatever) just sit back adn think of industry your hurting by subbing to it. MMO era isnt dead - its in a state of opression
5. More money spent on creating top-quality titles
6. More AAA devs/publishers creating MMOs
It's the BEST and GOLDEN time for the MMO era
You people just think that the genre is dying because you don't like the games that are out/coming out because you, personally, don't think they are good as the "old school" games we cut our teeth on.
Your opinion is your opinion, but the genre isn't dying. Fact. It's more alive now then ever before, and will only get better and better.
Just because you don't like the games doesn't mean the genre is dying.
It's the BEST and GOLDEN time for the MMO era You people just think that the genre is dying because you don't like the games that are out/coming out because you, personally, don't think they are good as the "old school" games we cut our teeth on. Your opinion is your opinion, but the genre isn't dying. Fact. It's more alive now then ever before, and will only get better and better. Just because you don't like the games doesn't mean the genre is dying. LOL reality calling, will you accept the charges?
It's not as much that we don't like the games, as that MMORPGS have changed so much that playing one now has very few similarites as playing one some years ago, it's almost a completely different experience, and in this sense the genre has died and is reborn in another form (a crappy one).
The modern era of mmo's really only started about 10 years ago, so its very premature to say the genre is dead/dying. In fact, 3D pc gaming isn't much older than mmo's. If we had a year or so of shitty fps games would anyone say fps's are dead/dying? This is only the beginning, not the end.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
It's not dying, it's just being mutilated into commercialism. Everything is being dumbed down and made completely linear. There's more and more gamers coming to MMORPGs every day, but the majority of them are teenagers and preteens who have to have their games catered to their IQ level, which is incredibly low The Era of GOOD MMOs is dying, but the Era of Crappy and Simple MMOs is just starting.
Hopefully, one or some of the games in 2008 (WAR, AoC, Aion, TCoS, etc) will breathe new life into the MMORPG world, but don't count on it. If none of the games in '08 are any good, then the era of good MMOs will officially be over, and we should all just quit playing MMOs because nothing better will ever come along, only worse things will come along.
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
It's not dying, it's just being mutilated into commercialism. Everything is being dumbed down and made completely linear. There's more and more gamers coming to MMORPGs every day, but the majority of them are teenagers and preteens who have to have their games catered to their IQ level, which is incredibly low The Era of GOOD MMOs is dying, but the Era of Crappy and Simple MMOs is just starting.
Hopefully, one or some of the games in 2008 (WAR, AoC, Aion, TCoS, etc) will breathe new life into the MMORPG world, but don't count on it. If none of the games in '08 are any good, then the era of good MMOs will officially be over, and we should all just quit playing MMOs because nothing better will ever come along, only worse things will come along.
I think a lot of veteran MMO players are getting bored. The games have changed as well. I remember getting EQ when Shadows of Lucin came out. It was my first MMO experience and I have never forgotten it. I didn't have a computer up to the task at the time, and wasn't able to play again for a few years. By then, the game had changed. It didn't have the same feel.
One could argue this is because the communities are no longer what they were. Remembered people stick with MMO’s because of the friends they make far more then they do for the game itself. If the communities break down and the games become solo oriented there is little reason for long time players to remain.
Certianly not dead in term of the amount of people playing. but as NEW and EXCITING goes we are certainly in a long dry spell. I dont see anything on the horizon that even peaks my intrest.
Seems more of the same with a different skin or twist, which is good for a quick hook but nothing lasting,
For those gen xers like me who remember the place to play vid games was the local pizza plalor and how great pac-man was for it time but then every game did the same pac-man type thing and the video game industry took a turn for the worst not long after that bankrupting many people.
The whole feel of MMO's feels the same as it did back then with pac-man, and as with all markets there is the evenutally crash/correction after all time highs.
So with that said I dont think the best MMO's are going to made in the next 5 to 7 years, but there will be one 10 years from now that total reinvents the genre. After it eventual correction.
I think a lot of veteran MMO players are getting bored. The games have changed as well. I remember getting EQ when Shadows of Lucin came out. It was my first MMO experience and I have never forgotten it. I didn't have a computer up to the task at the time, and wasn't able to play again for a few years. By then, the game had changed. It didn't have the same feel.
One could argue this is because the communities are no longer what they were. Remembered people stick with MMO’s because of the friends they make far more then they do for the game itself. If the communities break down and the games become solo oriented there is little reason for long time players to remain.
That is an absolute fallacy. WoW has proven that solo viability in no way harms an MMO. It's the most solo friendly game on the market. Do you really believe that people who solo don't socialize or chat it up? Could you please point out a game that failed due to being too solo friendly? Games die off because they get old, doesn't matter who you know in a game, you're gonna leave from boredom no matter what.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
It's not dying, it's just being mutilated into commercialism. Everything is being dumbed down and made completely linear. There's more and more gamers coming to MMORPGs every day, but the majority of them are teenagers and preteens who have to have their games catered to their IQ level, which is incredibly low The Era of GOOD MMOs is dying, but the Era of Crappy and Simple MMOs is just starting.
Hopefully, one or some of the games in 2008 (WAR, AoC, Aion, TCoS, etc) will breathe new life into the MMORPG world, but don't count on it. If none of the games in '08 are any good, then the era of good MMOs will officially be over, and we should all just quit playing MMOs because nothing better will ever come along, only worse things will come along.
QFT
I bet you a lot of new players coming into the genre see old school as pretty dumb and often masochistic. There's a reason why most normal people consider MMOers, freaks and geeks.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Its not just mmos that get liniar take a look at the console market .
Games have changed to appeal to the casual players and they dont change for the better i know alot of ppl praise games like vanguard, mass effect imo both crap.
Mass effect had its charm but after 3 days of playing and completed the game twice what else is there in it absolutely nothing its a single player experience might aswell read a book.
Vanguard its probely a nice game for old time mmoers but all i saw was a game that could have been great but failed because they made it almost impossible to advance without a guild. now thats not very solo friendly.
And the crafting system is crap pointless grind of workorders if i wanted a full time job button smashing ill go work as a cashier at a mall.
And talk about bugs.
Do i think mmos are dieng no not at all not with games like WAR, AoC and Aion comming.
I don't think they're dying. I think they are the future of gaming. However, I am sick and tired of fantasy mmo's with orcs and elves and swords and magic. But to each his own I guess.
No mmo out there makes it where you got to really sirvive.
What i mean is there is nothing you got to do to stay alive in there games.
You log in and what for there is no reason to login you dont have to help no one because they have everything that is made on npc, you dont need to make money in the game all you got to do is buy it from there site.
You dont got to eat or wear warm close in the winter because you will not die.
You dont have to do a trade becasue everything drops from mobs.
No skill it trade skills just have the stuff it takes to make it.
No skill in fighting all you got to do is click on it.
There is no reason to even play a mmo.
Now there is a reason to play a FPS , you say why , because you try to be the best.
See there is a thing called objective something to strive for and mmos dont have it.
In a mmo today you dont lose nothing there for you gain nothing .
If your just a person that likes to see your toon go up in lvls for nothing then the games today are for you.
What would make mmos better for me is this.
Have it where all stuff can kill you.
Make it where you can wear anything you want if you got the money to buy it.
Have it where weather effects your health. Have where you got to eat or die.
Make it where you got to have a job to make money.
I will not reiterate industry defenses, but I will say each game has its appropriate market and niche. Sans obvious flaws that inhibit advertised gameplay, there is no good or bad game design. It is a matter of what your goals are, what you value, what pushes your emotional buttons, etc. WoW is not an evil. Personally, I played experimentally and found it not suited to my tastes, but I know many who enjoy it immensely. It doesn't make them second-classes gamers, but it does reinforce the model.
I have a dream! I have a dream that all MMORPGs can coexist in peaceful equality; however, "love of money is the root of all evil." With this in mind, I think it would be a sound investment for companies to put their noses to the grind and create infastructure tools that dramatically cut development time and expenses, without sacrificing quality of any type, so as to allow for multiple types of games for multiple types of people. Maybe even the same game (or game world) designed with different goals in mind: Casual, chat-room-with-graphics versus something more akin to a simulation. And anything in between. Provided customers know exactly what they are getting, I do not see a problem.
To take a wishful-thinking risk, I wager within ten years we'll have our first marketable advanced virtual reality technology and game to go with it. ALA Otherland by Tad Williams. Until then, I hope for a Renaissance of text gaming, which has more simulation potential than current graphics games.
MMOs just need a good slap to shake things up. I'm done with WoW, again, and plan to put few months in AoC. Can't be realy excited about that either, I did the level grind in WoW and for the exact same reason I 'm not interested in any of the older games (who would want to do the same grind, but longer in an old game with uglyer graphics and choppy animations ).
What's I'm realy waiting for now is Spore, what I'm playing is most fun I had in a game in long time, check out Kongregate and what I'm rooting for the most is Metaplace
Thinking of Blizzard and their new MMO, you realy need to ask yourself for who they are making that game? I think it's safe to asume that their audience is geting bigger in numbers and older with each game. Even if you actualy believe that WoW is played by 12 yearolds, in 5 or so years when the new MMO comes out, all of them will be older and have the fondest of memorys from WoW, where oh where could they go for the new MMO expirience.
Sooner or later development tools will become useful in a way that you won't have to know "everything" about programing to make a game. Something like where movies are now with digital cameras and some software you can torrent for free. That's where something realy crazy and addictive will come from.
Until that happens I'm enjoying in this MMO I'm playing in my head. It has Havok physics, Euphoria engine for NPCs, Digital Molecular Matter for enviroment interaction and Spores procedural denerating mechanics. Too bad I have to play it alone, but in few years and with the upcoming 4G goodies that will end all this DC doomsaying we will all be able to play it, anytime, anywhere...
the MMO genre is pretty far from dying,its just because of WoWs success that every developer under the sun wants a slice of the pie.
2007 brought very little MMO wise,the only real major releases being lotro and vanguard;vanguard was an absolutely disgracefully bad attempt at moving back 8 years in time,whilst lotro whilst beautiful and polished was basically a single player game that had nothing left at 50.
Now we have AoC,WAR and TcoS to look forward too,all of which breathe a new lease of life as they incorporate real pvp and land capturing objectives into their gameplay.Spellborn is the most original thing in years. Even games such as tabula rasa,PotBS and 'non MMO' hellgate + mythos offer something fresh,and in 2008 all of those titles will continue to grow.Mythos is something to really keep your eye on.Then you have Aion,jumpgate ,huxley....
Everyone rants on that all MMOs nowadays are wow clones,blah blah blah,yet just looking to the left of this block of text I can see some very good titles all of which are worth playing,yet for some reason 90% of the people on this forum are blind to see.The only real WoW clone I can think of is lotro,but even that has a few diversions from the formula.
And the whole thing about how MMOs are all single player games nowadays,where the hell does that come from?People solo'ed back in EQ 9 years ago,yet no-one seems to remember that. So this complaint rages on,yet anytime a forced grouping MMO came out,there would be moans that its too annoying standing around LFG all the time.
WoW isnt 100% soloable at all.If you dont want to solo in a game,then play with a friend or actually look for groups.
The main problem is that we see the same tired old cliche filled threads appear daily all stating the same thing with nothing to back them up.Its like its another fashionable thing to do on these forums,along with bashing wow,SOE and using words like immersion and depth (half of those who use these words dont seem to grasp their actual meaning..)
So no,MMOs arent dying,but for a few old school so called 'veterans',the fact that gaming has evolved from their precious favourite era may seem a problem.
the MMO world seems dead to me .i started playing back when UO was released and from there went to EQ with ever expan i pleayed ,i pretty much could name every mmo to come out that was p2p and f2p , i just feel as if nothing seems new i am waiting for AoC's combat system to come out cause thats really what i want is a new combat system , i never liked WoW . i did love its pre BG PVP that was so fun (i was a druid) and was prob one of the only feral pure pvp druids on my server that was 60 and world pvp'ing but ever sense BG its just gone down hill from what it all ready was , it feels like MMO's just dumb'ed down for the masses , the only game that ever gave me common play and an advantage that took time to make was Eve online but thats not every ones cup-a-tea , i loved SWG before all the combat "fixes" and i still say that if it came down to it i would play SWG if they had classis servers
but to me mmo's are dead i no longer feel the urge to wanna play them there PVP aint shit no more with is what i want in a game PVP and smooth game play
None of the game industry of MMO's are working towards part of this above, none. In their book, virtual reality is dead, worlds are dead, themeparks are what earns them the $'s.
------------------------
Thats not the truth... it will come.
But for now... the MMO designers are hopeless, non innovative and really mostly tragically funny.
None of the game industry of MMO's are working towards part of this above, none. In their book, virtual reality is dead, worlds are dead, themeparks are what earns them the $'s. ------------------------ Thats not the truth... it will come. But for now... the MMO designers are hopeless, non innovative and really mostly tragically funny.
Yeah, it's depressing.
There are two broad catagories of design philosophy; linear and sandbox. Of those two, sandbox has the greatest potential and could provide further evolution for the genre. But linear is sooo much easier for developers to do.
I know that there are sandbox games out there but all the big money is going into the development of linear games. The problem with that is that linear games have nowhere to go. They can't evolve. By their very nature they are rigid and highly structured and there just isn't much that can be done with them. Oh, they can tack on different graphics and tweak the gameplay. They can change the names of things. But that's about it.
The design of linear games is limited by the fact that characters will continually outgrow their environment. That makes it impossible to build a world. It makes easy travel options a must-have feature. It means that older content will consantly become obsolete. It means that you can never have open PvP that is balanced in any sane way. It makes a gear grind almost inevitble and if not a gear grind then some sort of progression grind to keep people busy while the developers scramble to slap together more content to replace the old stuff that the players have outgrown. And so on.
Sandbox, on the other hand, has huge potential. But getting it to work well and BE FUN at the same time is a lot more complicated. I just wish that all the money being dumped into linear games was being used for sandbox games instead. Then maybe we would start to see real progress in these games. But I don't suppose that's going to happen any time soon.
But there is one thing you can be sure of: Linear games will not change significantly. Don't expect evolution in linear games because they CAN'T evolve. What you've seen already is pretty much all they have to offer. If you are looking at a linear game coming out in the future don't kid yourself into thinking it's going to be something new. It won't be.
While there is a strong argument for either sandbox or linear I do not think this is what is hindering MMO's. The OP asked if the era is dying. I do not think it is. New games are under development by almost every big company out there. I think the question posed is a result of:
WoW players tired of that game and not finding WoW 2.
Sandbox players not getting a game any time soon.
The time it takes to make a game of WoW or EQ quality. (depending on your tastes)
People just want to stop playing one MMO they love when they tire of it and jump into another one. These vitual worlds are not easy to make, maintain or make everyone happy. The answer is simple:
New games that cater to niche audiences released en masse. ie WAR, AoC, TCoS, PotBS, etc etc. Everyone will find a game they love and there will not be a 400 pound gorilla (WoW) as time rolls on. PvPers will pick their game, PvEers will have theirs. Genres will be available that differ - Spies, Pirates, Swords and Magic, Futuristic etc.
So NO the era is not dying it is evolving. Old timers usually don't like this because it deviates from their beloved "first MMO experience" but oh well, they will be forced to get over it.
Comments
Maybe MMO lose the power of surprise..
No, not even close.
There are probably 50 times as many people playing MMORPGs now than were playing in the first couple of years of MMORPG. Who knows, maybe even more.
If anything, MMORPGs are becoming the dominant form of interactive gameplay. I pretty much no longer buy Single Player RPGs or Single Player FPS anymore. They all seem dead and lifeless now.
"Look, good against remotes is one thing. Good against a living? That's something else."
Exactly.
There are more players than ever.
except since after wow came out be been getting 1 player mmos : / where the fing freedom any more ><
*darkfall* cough *hides* XD
QFT
I always LOL at these threads.
Why?
1. More people play MMOs then ever before.
2. More games are being released all the time
3. More variety and competition in the market
4. More games in development
5. More money spent on creating top-quality titles
6. More AAA devs/publishers creating MMOs
It's the BEST and GOLDEN time for the MMO era
You people just think that the genre is dying because you don't like the games that are out/coming out because you, personally, don't think they are good as the "old school" games we cut our teeth on.
Your opinion is your opinion, but the genre isn't dying. Fact. It's more alive now then ever before, and will only get better and better.
Just because you don't like the games doesn't mean the genre is dying.
LOL reality calling, will you accept the charges?
It's not as much that we don't like the games, as that MMORPGS have changed so much that playing one now has very few similarites as playing one some years ago, it's almost a completely different experience, and in this sense the genre has died and is reborn in another form (a crappy one).
The modern era of mmo's really only started about 10 years ago, so its very premature to say the genre is dead/dying. In fact, 3D pc gaming isn't much older than mmo's. If we had a year or so of shitty fps games would anyone say fps's are dead/dying? This is only the beginning, not the end.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
It's not dying, it's just being mutilated into commercialism. Everything is being dumbed down and made completely linear. There's more and more gamers coming to MMORPGs every day, but the majority of them are teenagers and preteens who have to have their games catered to their IQ level, which is incredibly low The Era of GOOD MMOs is dying, but the Era of Crappy and Simple MMOs is just starting.
Hopefully, one or some of the games in 2008 (WAR, AoC, Aion, TCoS, etc) will breathe new life into the MMORPG world, but don't count on it. If none of the games in '08 are any good, then the era of good MMOs will officially be over, and we should all just quit playing MMOs because nothing better will ever come along, only worse things will come along.
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa
Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate
Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
Certianly not dead in term of the amount of people playing. but as NEW and EXCITING goes we are certainly in a long dry spell. I dont see anything on the horizon that even peaks my intrest.
Seems more of the same with a different skin or twist, which is good for a quick hook but nothing lasting,
For those gen xers like me who remember the place to play vid games was the local pizza plalor and how great pac-man was for it time but then every game did the same pac-man type thing and the video game industry took a turn for the worst not long after that bankrupting many people.
The whole feel of MMO's feels the same as it did back then with pac-man, and as with all markets there is the evenutally crash/correction after all time highs.
So with that said I dont think the best MMO's are going to made in the next 5 to 7 years, but there will be one 10 years from now that total reinvents the genre. After it eventual correction.
That is an absolute fallacy. WoW has proven that solo viability in no way harms an MMO. It's the most solo friendly game on the market. Do you really believe that people who solo don't socialize or chat it up? Could you please point out a game that failed due to being too solo friendly? Games die off because they get old, doesn't matter who you know in a game, you're gonna leave from boredom no matter what.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I bet you a lot of new players coming into the genre see old school as pretty dumb and often masochistic. There's a reason why most normal people consider MMOers, freaks and geeks.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Its not just mmos that get liniar take a look at the console market .
Games have changed to appeal to the casual players and they dont change for the better i know alot of ppl praise games like vanguard, mass effect imo both crap.
Mass effect had its charm but after 3 days of playing and completed the game twice what else is there in it absolutely nothing its a single player experience might aswell read a book.
Vanguard its probely a nice game for old time mmoers but all i saw was a game that could have been great but failed because they made it almost impossible to advance without a guild. now thats not very solo friendly.
And the crafting system is crap pointless grind of workorders if i wanted a full time job button smashing ill go work as a cashier at a mall.
And talk about bugs.
Do i think mmos are dieng no not at all not with games like WAR, AoC and Aion comming.
I don't think they're dying. I think they are the future of gaming. However, I am sick and tired of fantasy mmo's with orcs and elves and swords and magic. But to each his own I guess.
Yes mmos are dieing and because of one thing.
No mmo out there makes it where you got to really sirvive.
What i mean is there is nothing you got to do to stay alive in there games.
You log in and what for there is no reason to login you dont have to help no one because they have everything that is made on npc, you dont need to make money in the game all you got to do is buy it from there site.
You dont got to eat or wear warm close in the winter because you will not die.
You dont have to do a trade becasue everything drops from mobs.
No skill it trade skills just have the stuff it takes to make it.
No skill in fighting all you got to do is click on it.
There is no reason to even play a mmo.
Now there is a reason to play a FPS , you say why , because you try to be the best.
See there is a thing called objective something to strive for and mmos dont have it.
In a mmo today you dont lose nothing there for you gain nothing .
If your just a person that likes to see your toon go up in lvls for nothing then the games today are for you.
What would make mmos better for me is this.
Have it where all stuff can kill you.
Make it where you can wear anything you want if you got the money to buy it.
Have it where weather effects your health. Have where you got to eat or die.
Make it where you got to have a job to make money.
Just make the game where you got to live in it .
WWIIOnline The Real War!
I will not reiterate industry defenses, but I will say each game has its appropriate market and niche. Sans obvious flaws that inhibit advertised gameplay, there is no good or bad game design. It is a matter of what your goals are, what you value, what pushes your emotional buttons, etc. WoW is not an evil. Personally, I played experimentally and found it not suited to my tastes, but I know many who enjoy it immensely. It doesn't make them second-classes gamers, but it does reinforce the model.
I have a dream! I have a dream that all MMORPGs can coexist in peaceful equality; however, "love of money is the root of all evil." With this in mind, I think it would be a sound investment for companies to put their noses to the grind and create infastructure tools that dramatically cut development time and expenses, without sacrificing quality of any type, so as to allow for multiple types of games for multiple types of people. Maybe even the same game (or game world) designed with different goals in mind: Casual, chat-room-with-graphics versus something more akin to a simulation. And anything in between. Provided customers know exactly what they are getting, I do not see a problem.
To take a wishful-thinking risk, I wager within ten years we'll have our first marketable advanced virtual reality technology and game to go with it. ALA Otherland by Tad Williams. Until then, I hope for a Renaissance of text gaming, which has more simulation potential than current graphics games.
topped out for a bit, but not dead.
MMOs just need a good slap to shake things up. I'm done with WoW, again, and plan to put few months in AoC. Can't be realy excited about that either, I did the level grind in WoW and for the exact same reason I 'm not interested in any of the older games (who would want to do the same grind, but longer in an old game with uglyer graphics and choppy animations
).
What's I'm realy waiting for now is Spore, what I'm playing is most fun I had in a game in long time, check out Kongregate and what I'm rooting for the most is Metaplace
Thinking of Blizzard and their new MMO, you realy need to ask yourself for who they are making that game? I think it's safe to asume that their audience is geting bigger in numbers and older with each game. Even if you actualy believe that WoW is played by 12 yearolds, in 5 or so years when the new MMO comes out, all of them will be older and have the fondest of memorys from WoW, where oh where could they go for the new MMO expirience.
Sooner or later development tools will become useful in a way that you won't have to know "everything" about programing to make a game. Something like where movies are now with digital cameras and some software you can torrent for free. That's where something realy crazy and addictive will come from.
Until that happens I'm enjoying in this MMO I'm playing in my head. It has Havok physics, Euphoria engine for NPCs, Digital Molecular Matter for enviroment interaction and Spores procedural denerating mechanics. Too bad I have to play it alone, but in few years and with the upcoming 4G goodies that will end all this DC doomsaying we will all be able to play it, anytime, anywhere...
The future is
always a laugh to read these kind of threads.
the MMO genre is pretty far from dying,its just because of WoWs success that every developer under the sun wants a slice of the pie.
2007 brought very little MMO wise,the only real major releases being lotro and vanguard;vanguard was an absolutely disgracefully bad attempt at moving back 8 years in time,whilst lotro whilst beautiful and polished was basically a single player game that had nothing left at 50.
Now we have AoC,WAR and TcoS to look forward too,all of which breathe a new lease of life as they incorporate real pvp and land capturing objectives into their gameplay.Spellborn is the most original thing in years. Even games such as tabula rasa,PotBS and 'non MMO' hellgate + mythos offer something fresh,and in 2008 all of those titles will continue to grow.Mythos is something to really keep your eye on.Then you have Aion,jumpgate ,huxley....
Everyone rants on that all MMOs nowadays are wow clones,blah blah blah,yet just looking to the left of this block of text I can see some very good titles all of which are worth playing,yet for some reason 90% of the people on this forum are blind to see.The only real WoW clone I can think of is lotro,but even that has a few diversions from the formula.
And the whole thing about how MMOs are all single player games nowadays,where the hell does that come from?People solo'ed back in EQ 9 years ago,yet no-one seems to remember that. So this complaint rages on,yet anytime a forced grouping MMO came out,there would be moans that its too annoying standing around LFG all the time.
WoW isnt 100% soloable at all.If you dont want to solo in a game,then play with a friend or actually look for groups.
The main problem is that we see the same tired old cliche filled threads appear daily all stating the same thing with nothing to back them up.Its like its another fashionable thing to do on these forums,along with bashing wow,SOE and using words like immersion and depth (half of those who use these words dont seem to grasp their actual meaning..)
So no,MMOs arent dying,but for a few old school so called 'veterans',the fact that gaming has evolved from their precious favourite era may seem a problem.
the MMO world seems dead to me .i started playing back when UO was released and from there went to EQ with ever expan i pleayed ,i pretty much could name every mmo to come out that was p2p and f2p , i just feel as if nothing seems new i am waiting for AoC's combat system to come out cause thats really what i want is a new combat system , i never liked WoW . i did love its pre BG PVP that was so fun (i was a druid) and was prob one of the only feral pure pvp druids on my server that was 60 and world pvp'ing but ever sense BG its just gone down hill from what it all ready was , it feels like MMO's just dumb'ed down for the masses , the only game that ever gave me common play and an advantage that took time to make was Eve online but thats not every ones cup-a-tea , i loved SWG before all the combat "fixes" and i still say that if it came down to it i would play SWG if they had classis servers
but to me mmo's are dead i no longer feel the urge to wanna play them there PVP aint shit no more with is what i want in a game PVP and smooth game play
None of the game industry of MMO's are working towards part of this above, none. In their book, virtual reality is dead, worlds are dead, themeparks are what earns them the $'s.
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Thats not the truth... it will come.
But for now... the MMO designers are hopeless, non innovative and really mostly tragically funny.
There are two broad catagories of design philosophy; linear and sandbox. Of those two, sandbox has the greatest potential and could provide further evolution for the genre. But linear is sooo much easier for developers to do.
I know that there are sandbox games out there but all the big money is going into the development of linear games. The problem with that is that linear games have nowhere to go. They can't evolve. By their very nature they are rigid and highly structured and there just isn't much that can be done with them. Oh, they can tack on different graphics and tweak the gameplay. They can change the names of things. But that's about it.
The design of linear games is limited by the fact that characters will continually outgrow their environment. That makes it impossible to build a world. It makes easy travel options a must-have feature. It means that older content will consantly become obsolete. It means that you can never have open PvP that is balanced in any sane way. It makes a gear grind almost inevitble and if not a gear grind then some sort of progression grind to keep people busy while the developers scramble to slap together more content to replace the old stuff that the players have outgrown. And so on.
Sandbox, on the other hand, has huge potential. But getting it to work well and BE FUN at the same time is a lot more complicated. I just wish that all the money being dumped into linear games was being used for sandbox games instead. Then maybe we would start to see real progress in these games. But I don't suppose that's going to happen any time soon.
But there is one thing you can be sure of: Linear games will not change significantly. Don't expect evolution in linear games because they CAN'T evolve. What you've seen already is pretty much all they have to offer. If you are looking at a linear game coming out in the future don't kid yourself into thinking it's going to be something new. It won't be.
While there is a strong argument for either sandbox or linear I do not think this is what is hindering MMO's. The OP asked if the era is dying. I do not think it is. New games are under development by almost every big company out there. I think the question posed is a result of:
WoW players tired of that game and not finding WoW 2.
Sandbox players not getting a game any time soon.
The time it takes to make a game of WoW or EQ quality. (depending on your tastes)
People just want to stop playing one MMO they love when they tire of it and jump into another one. These vitual worlds are not easy to make, maintain or make everyone happy. The answer is simple:
New games that cater to niche audiences released en masse. ie WAR, AoC, TCoS, PotBS, etc etc. Everyone will find a game they love and there will not be a 400 pound gorilla (WoW) as time rolls on. PvPers will pick their game, PvEers will have theirs. Genres will be available that differ - Spies, Pirates, Swords and Magic, Futuristic etc.
So NO the era is not dying it is evolving. Old timers usually don't like this because it deviates from their beloved "first MMO experience" but oh well, they will be forced to get over it.