Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Bland combat gameplay?
Omega3
Member Posts: 398
Several beta leaks running around the net indicates bland gameplay (static action, mash buttons repeatedly...), and the gameplay videos available seems to support that "rumor".
6 months before release, its already too late to revamp combat gameplay.
What's your take on this?
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Comments
Your a brave brave man posting that.
But I do agree, combat was very static, and slow. It plays like WoW only at half the speed. It might of changed in the 8 months since I took interest but I am not interested in playing a poor WoW clone when I can play the real deal.
I'll give you my take when I actually try the combat myself and the NDA lifts.
The videos are relative to persons actual gaming skill, I have seen videos that have looked very exciting and I have seen videos where whomever is playing the character does very little (just stands still and AAs). Videos don't really do much justice if the player is like the latter. Anyone can make a video of an mmorpg and make the combat look dull.
Your a brave brave man posting that.
But I do agree, combat was very static, and slow. It plays like WoW only at half the speed. It might of changed in the 8 months since I took interest but I am not interested in playing a poor WoW clone when I can play the real deal.
The combat action seems akin to Daoc to me, more so than WoW.
Many asian morgs do a lot of damage to peoples sense of what combat should be like atm.
When you look at your typical Korean morg the action is so fast paced and flashy that they only have a few frames in each animation. And it looks nothing like what you could in any way realistically expect a sword swing (just to take an example) would look like.
But when people get used to all that flash bang suggar animation then when western games try to look more gritty and even realistic the people who play the eastern games find them bland and boring.
I aplaud games like WaR and AoC for not jumping on the Asian mega fast flash bang sensory overload bandwagon.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
I'm an ex-FPS player player, where the action is extremely fast paced and the fastest player usually wins.
My experience in WoW PvP was pretty much that of a FPS.
Do you mean that WoW is some kind of unnatural asian-western MMO mix?
Even more so, i think fast paced combat attracts more players than slow paced... i'm probably one of them.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Yes wow is very much a blend of the east and west in game styles.
IMO the worst thing you see in mmo pvp is circle strafing. It has nothing to do with real swordplay and is an artificial construction created by bad programming.
One of the great things about daoc pvp were that circle strafing gained you NOTHING if your enemy werent stupid. They also programmed melee and ranged in such a way that melee were actually useful in pvp (action - delay instead of delay - action that you had for ranged attacks).
MMOs have a different kind of skill than FPS games when it comes to pvp. Its knowing your role, and when to do one thing or another. DaoC were extremely unforgiving against stupid players and rewarded good players. WoW just reward the fast player rather than the skilled one.
BTW AoC have FPS targeting in combat but they know about circle strafters. Thats why you do almost no damage , take more damage, spend much more endurance and suffer additional bad effects if you move while fighting there. Thats good game design.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
I'm an ex-FPS player player, where the action is extremely fast paced and the fastest player usually wins.
My experience in WoW PvP was pretty much that of a FPS.
Do you mean that WoW is some kind of unnatural asian-western MMO mix?
Even more so, i think fast paced combat attracts more players than slow paced... i'm probably one of them.
i guess you missed everything he said. or maybe you have never tried a korean mmo.. like cabal, 2moons, L2.. something where the movement is quick and the effects are followed with explosions and what not. WoW has nothing like this or even close to any effects like asain MMOs. Anyways he wasn't compairing anything to wow at all.. I don't understand why everyone allways has to complair everything to wow.
The faster player usually is the more skilled player is he/she not? That's one of prime factors in deciding a players skill. His/her ability to respond to situations and react accordingly. DAOC was just less twitch than WoW and I think WAR will be too, but it will stand somewhere between DAOC and WoW.
I'm like you Omega, im an FPS gamer (mainly console now, last I played I was ranked 30 K/D globally on CoD4). I like twitch style gameplay. Which is why I liked WoW. I think the videos for WAR that you have seen may be decieving you because I really don't think the combat will be vastly different. I think it will be a cross of DAOC and WoW, more DAOC perhaps but if you have never been in a large scale siege or battle from there then you don't know how chaotic it can get. More chaotic than any single moment I ever had in WoW.
I don't get how you say it takes more skill to stand there while clicking buttons rather then moveing in and out of range while clicking/macro. so i guess you want a game where you run up to a person and stand there while attacking non-stop.. Hey guys if you have skills that only work from the front or from the back, or even 10 yards out or farther kiss those good bye cuz moveing takes less skill, and you're pretty much "stupid" for doing so.
Also you saying strafing has no use in "real" swordplay.. hrmm pretty sure moveing to the left or the right opens a hitzone up if your foe doesn't move to counter but hey once again it takes more skill to stand in one place and not move at all.
Movement and combat . . . well if you have ever trained swordplay you know of the concept force projection. Running in circles will prevent you from being able to project force. You move to evade and set up for counter strokes but you cannot move in the same instance you strike unless its a feint. Knowing this you always die a little inside when you see circle strafers.
FPSers seems to be unable to understand the skill involved in playing a MMO because they equal skill in the game with physical ability where MMO skill is a question of brains. If you mindlessly begin to attack the wrong target you kill your own side. If you forget to see what the person next to you do you lose the fight for your side. If you dont know exactly what an ability do for you and your enemy you lose the fight. Its a brain game that takes a LOT of skill if the game is good.
Good pvp games does not reward buttom smashing. They reward the intelligent player and punish stupidity with instant death. In daoc you saw skilled players even on noob toons kill 3 to 4 times their numbers in battles because they knew what they were doing and the enemy did not.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
I wouldn't ever disagree that a factor of skill in any game takes some knowledge of the game itself. That's just common sense and can be applied to anything in life. If you discount that the physical abilities of eye-hand coordination play no role in deciding a players skill well then I do disagree.
What pvp game is there that requires solely button mashing to achieve victory? Tekken doesnt count.
If you were to take two players of the same class, one who was tactical and intelligent in combat, then put him up with someone of the same level of intelligence but who has a better reaction time and can react accurately faster. Who do you think will win? If you tell me Daoc didn't have this you better go back and replay.
There are so many other factors in taking on multiple opponents than knowledge of gameplay and classes. Including some physical aspects.
And because daoc actually HAS abilities that disable entire groups -_-
Small important difference.
And because daoc actually HAS abilities that disable entire groups -_-
Small important difference.
Pfft I didn't even need an ability like that with my Cabby.
Send Saph pet in, Juggernaut, FG wiped.
If it's anything like DAOC's combat then the games screwed lol that game had bad movement and everyone just seemed to stand still next to eachother.... wheres the running about to try get out the hitting distance or to try make it harder for casters.
-----------------------------
SWG - PrePub9 Jedi mastered all professions - June 26th 2003 > Nov 15th 2005
EVE Online - 24 million SP - May 6th 2003 > Early 2005
PlanetSide - BR20 CR5 - May 23rd 2003 > Sept 2003
FPS style play (which I love and participate in a lot --- CoD 4 FTW) does not belong in a MMO and the mechanics should not support that kind of play style. In a sword fight you do not see people running forward and back all the time, trying to time their forward move with a swing. You do that in a real sword fight you die - you are going to exhaust yourself to the point of not being able to pick up the sword very quckly.
MMO combat should be more about an understanding of your skills and abilities, an awareness of what your teammates are doing and where they are, reading what your opponent is doing and so on. Yes, moving should be a part of it but stuff like circle strafing and jumping around like a jack rabbit should not. Move to get behind or moving around to get to a caster and avoiding the tank is all important.
Having played (for a short time - not in beta) the game for about an hour before the exhibit hall opened I can say that WAR combat plays almost exactly like WoW combat but at a slightly slower pace. If you get jumped you actually have a moment to get your bearings and react. You are still on your backfoot and at a disadvantage but you do get a bit more time to get a grip on what has happened.
Hell, I'm sorry but if you watch a WoW combat video they are incredibly boring to watch as well. MMO games do not make for fun games to watch and you really cannot judge anything or understand the way the game will work if you do not actually play it.
In other words, i couldn't move my toon to the side or back or front of players to use positional styles. QQ
You mean i can't hop around like like a 12 year old on speed and still do well? YEH lets hope not.
What beta leaks, i think u might be off here. However many in-game vids have been taken at conventions , but there was no NDA so , that was ok.
I hope combat is a bit slow, why. Becuase most people here have not massivly pvp'ed. Try having FASt pace combat with 50 v 50 people you'll not even get off a heal on one of 3 targets before they die. Think people think.
Aoc had some beta leaks about bad combat not in vid form tho. REally if anyoen knows of a real beta leak plz link it.
I seen some fake vids about this but they are not Warhammer , link a warhammer vid that plays different that another mmos, to the point were all you do is stand around.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
What's the problem?
Not enough WoW-style bunny-hopping, smack-talking, sheep-morphing, fearing, rooting, snaring, and stealth-ganking for you???
Good.
~ Ancient Membership ~
Can we stop comparing WAR to WoW please? For heavens sake WoW is just the noob MMO. It's only meant to bring new people into the MMO genre, and not for comparing anything too (the game frankly sucks, it's WAY too easy).
Now, we could compare WAR to Daoc, UO, EQ2, and possibly EvE based on playstyles only.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
There should be a law that if "WoW" and "WAR" are used in the same sentence then a giant hammer should appear above the person and crush them. I am immune to it for this sentence because I am demonstrating it
If the combat in WAR seems slow to the FPS-style players, then Im extremely glad to hear that. There was nothing better in 8vs8 fights in DAOC than struggling for 7 or 8 minutes to overcome the enemy group. Those kinds of epic fights are all about knowing every last detail about your toon and how you should play it in your group. Get 8 people together who really know their toons, and they could take down 24 disorganized enemies easily. I played WoW, and the combat in that game never offered anything remotely near as exciting. And part of that was due to combat pacing being too fast. Maybe its different now, I gave up on WoW 2 years ago.
In fact, I recall about midway thru the life of DAOC, Mythic played around with the idea of *decreasing* damage over time done in game, in order to make fights last longer. I was all for it, but they ended up not making the changes because people had become accustomed to a certain pace of combat. So Mythic I believe has always wanted to keep the pacing of combat a bit slower, in order to allow fights to actually develop and groups to enjoy more time fighting and less time dying / releasing / running back out.
If you never played DAOC, you may not understand the joys of slower combat. But dont blow it off before you give it a try. Warhammer just got a +1 in my book due to what the OP calls "bland combat".
WoW is pretty much the same as it was, arenas are a joke. I could definitely go for some slower more tactical gameplay in an MMO. Sounds like WAR is shaping up to be the game that I have always wished for, massive slow paced battles that really have an epic feel to them.
combat is fine, the game is about rvr not 1 vs 1 and no most of us will not go back to play the "real deal" u WoW fanbois.
Heres a great reason why slow combat rocks. It's taken from a WoW Pally player who I think know's what he's talking about. Of course its about low DPS and not slow combat, but I think you get the picture.
img310.imageshack.us/img310/2584/paladins0gf.jpg
Bollocks!
I can see how the whole community playing RvR is all sitting and watching pr0n. No interaction at all, everyone is just standing still auto-attacking. Good point, recommend everyone to read it!.