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20% PvP fans only?
Mitara
Member UncommonPosts: 755
I just saw a test on how many people actually liked PvP as the most important part of MMO's. 20% !! What about you, how many people do you think is the real number? The test says nothing about what game it was however, but there are games like DDO that has no PvP at all.
Comments
DDO does have PVP but its more bar brawling and some arena type events. Its mainly for fun and has no impact on the game at all. Of course classes are not balanced for PVP at all ... but then DDO's pen n paper was never balanced for PVP either so it all works out in the end lol. D&D n PVP just aren't meant to be friends.
As for the Poll hmm...its kind of a toss up I always thought it was pretty 50/50 with some people sort of stuck in the middle.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I think a real good way to measure would be to go count the number of PvP servers on WoW to the PvE servers on WoW.
And then realize that on the PvE servers, the PvP is also going hot and heavy.
I think everyone likes PvE to some degree.
And a whole lot of folks are getting into PvP; much more than 3 years ago.
I think DAoC really launched PvP as a mainstream MMORPG activity.
And WoW has sealed it.
With WAR and AoC, PvP will most likely become the dominant form of MMORPG play with PvE supporting it. That is also the current WoW end-game model with BC.
WoW kinda killed PVP for me.....I'm hopin AoC & WAR bring back the meaning to PvP. Ive never been a big PvPer int he first place but I have firm beliefs that PVP should atleast impact the world in someway (just not a gank fiesta like UO was before the shards lol).
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I started playing MMOS when DAoC was realeased, and so im a PvP fan and cannot understand why are there so many pple who like PvE in mmos. Imo PvE is boring as hell and have tryed LOtRO which destroyed PvP and WoW whose PvP wasnt too bad although after some hours it began to be repetitive as PvEd instances.
I´d like to hear some reasons why pple like PvE and dislike PvP.
Thanks for reading.
While PVE monsters have predictable behavior, PVE tends to have more socialization and close cooperation among other players. In other words, it builds community.
While PVP can give you that rush of excitement, this sort of gameplay quickly becomes tedious and repetitive, much like running around in the backyard and playing tag. Just like with FPS games, interest is high at first, then wanes quickly.
One need only look at WOW's medium-to-heavily populated PVE servers to its mostly low-populated PVP servers to understand the briefer level of interest that PVP holds for most folks.
Could you link to that poll?
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
I consider PvP an annoying necessity to empire/kingdom building one of my perfered game styles.
now PvP in something like guildwars that's pure joy.
edit:
it says most important part, obviously people who did the polls didn't go PvP vote fanboy high even if it's not true to me.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I prefer PvE. Its interesting when you have a group thats trying to overcome a challenge. PvP just gets very... similar. I think a game like Conan, with world altering PvP could be cool, but overall its just a giant gank fest. Like WoW. "Oh look, there's a hunter. And... yep, I'm still a priest. well damn it, game over man, game over."
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
This is pretty simple just by looking a recent game history...
Eq2 vs WoW, EQ2 first came out with no pvp system and WoW had a pvp system. WoWs numbers far greater than that of EQ2. A few months into it and EQ2 tried to hurry out a pvp system to get some players to come and try the game.
LoTR said that there was no way that they were going to have a pvp system. They said it wouldnt work with the story and guess what before you knew it they put in a wierd pvp system.
DDO yea pretty much a total flop also was going to be a pve only game but they also tried to throw in some weak pvp system.
A game better have a pvp system from the very start if they want to have a good player base. Because the truth is most people want pvp. The big games right now have always had the pvp system in. L2, WoW, GW, DAOC, UO and SWG just to name a few. Like it or not those are the facts. When people talk about great games or topics on best game ever, everyone of those games they are talking about are games with good pvp.
No pvp system = failed game. Good unigue pvp system = high populations.
Sig by WhiskeyJack1
I do believe that more and more people are starting to take interest in consentual PVP. This could be through the use of PVP zones, instances, or RvR. I think the numbers who like FFA PVP all the time is quite a bit less.
"Those who dislike things based only on the fact that they are popular are just as shallow and superficial as those who only like them for the same reason."
PvE is great for community building and some relaxing time just to take it easy and enjoy some game time without having to watch your back every five seconds. I've always loved being able to do something and relax in the process or have a good laugh with friends over something stupid we tried but utterly failed at. It also provides a fairly good pratice ground for trying out certain manuvers and tactics that might not otherwise get perfected on a PvP battlefield.
Otherdays I have the itch to hurt people ..(as in kill them) so I'm more willing to fight the good fight and protect my homelands by beating on the enemy player.
I"ve never liked games that are PURE PvP (like old time UO days). There's just to much animosity and if your a new player its doubly hard to figure out who to trust and where its safe to go (to many people take advantage of new players), thus it deters the growth of the community leaving it limited and stale. What good does it do you to struggle to the top only to sit on an empire of nothing.
To me a game that can bring a harmoneous balance between PvE & PvP making them both important to the world is going to keep my interest and devotion the longest than a game that leans more to one end than the other. I speculate a game of this nature will make a larger portion (certaintly not all because there's always bitchers on both sides that think only one type of playstyle belongs) of both communities happy or atleast content. It'll provide activities for downtime when you don't feel like PvPing but want to play and activites for PvErs who are in the mood to seek the utter destruction of the enemy and want a challenge from the usual NPC affair.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I really don't like PVP but that being said I think under the current state of MMOs I wll be getting into it more to get a thrill that mob killing doesnt give. I want PVP with a purpose not just griefing and ganking. I want to fight for king and country, need more in game politics for PVP.
WoW's pvp didn't work and still doesn't work the way it was promised. Infact most of WoW's launch population was only excited and frothing for Raids. PvP was there but no one really cared since it IS a PVE game with some pvp elements attached on. WoW was built as a PVE game and threw in the ability to flag yourself....we see how well that went anyone raid a city lately? NO!
EQ2 Stated from the beginning its a Group Based PVE Game. They gave access to PvP finally but if you go check it out MOST people hate PVP...the game is built on PVE and thus should of stuck to its guns. the only reason EQ2's population never hit giant porporitions (although its population is MORE than satisfactory in size) was due to the heavy GROUP implementation.
LOTR didn't add that Monster PVP option it was part of the design from the beginning anyone who read the dev journals back in the day and watched the game since it was announced knew this.
DDO did not flop due to its lack of PVP it 'flopped' or otherwise only kept a hardcore audience because of its Over Instancing and lack of exploration. Anyone who's a true fan of D&D knows its never been about PvP. Bar Brawling and tournaments sure but never flat out PVP...they do offer this option and most players rarely do anything other than Bar Brawling when they're in some down time.
Games today are learning you can't force people to group and you can't force them to pvp if you want to keep more of them around.
You didn't Point out one single True fact. Low population does not = a flopped game. It equals a game that catered to 1 specific game style and thats it. A Flop Game is OMG Vanguard it never even got off the ground they're still pay to beta'ing that game.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I don't consider that number very unlogical. Currently WoW has a major part of the market in it's grip and the most part of those playing, plays PvE. PvP was never very good in WoW and the most therefore judge PvP by what they've seen in WoW.
WoW's pvp didn't work and still doesn't work the way it was promised. Infact most of WoW's launch population was only excited and frothing for Raids. PvP was there but no one really cared since it IS a PVE game with some pvp elements attached on. WoW was built as a PVE game and threw in the ability to flag yourself....we see how well that went anyone raid a city lately? NO!
EQ2 Stated from the beginning its a Group Based PVE Game. They gave access to PvP finally but if you go check it out MOST people hate PVP...the game is built on PVE and thus should of stuck to its guns. the only reason EQ2's population never hit giant porporitions (although its population is MORE than satisfactory in size) was due to the heavy GROUP implementation.
LOTR didn't add that Monster PVP option it was part of the design from the beginning anyone who read the dev journals back in the day and watched the game since it was announced knew this.
DDO did not flop due to its lack of PVP it 'flopped' or otherwise only kept a hardcore audience because of its Over Instancing and lack of exploration. Anyone who's a true fan of D&D knows its never been about PvP. Bar Brawling and tournaments sure but never flat out PVP...they do offer this option and most players rarely do anything other than Bar Brawling when they're in some down time.
Games today are learning you can't force people to group and you can't force them to pvp if you want to keep more of them around.
You didn't Point out one single True fact. Low population does not = a flopped game. It equals a game that catered to 1 specific game style and thats it. A Flop Game is OMG Vanguard it never even got off the ground they're still pay to beta'ing that game.
I agree with you on a lot of things. WoW pvp for me was pretty boring to say the least but that doesnt change the fact that a lot of people love it. It is the main reason a lot of people still play that game and its a big reason people run instances/raids. However when WoW first come out the pvp was pretty fun before BG/honor/whatever it was all down hill from there. I did follow LoTRO awhile before it was released and keep up on it and they said from the very start that there was going to be no pvp. I tried to get them to add some pvp system in and got flamed on the forums all the time for it. They were not going to have any kind of pvp thats when I stopped watching it and why I never bought the game.
I do agree with your other post. A good balance of both pve and pvp is needed. I would like open pvp all the time but understand why some people dont like it because some kids like to grief lower levels so I could live without that just as long as it had a great way to make up for it. Im a open world pvp player so as long as I dont get forced to pvp in "zones" or instances then I will be happy. Lineage 2 from C1-C5 was pretty fun as far as the pure pvp aspect of a game. Pve boring as hell and the reason I left because it was such a grind at 72+ and a boring one because it was just mob killing all day long so they need to balance it out a bit.
Sig by WhiskeyJack1
People are very different. Some people like cooperative play more than competative play. Some of us like both.
A lot of people have had very bad experiences in FFA PVP games. Becuase of the lack of behavioral consequences in games like these, a lot of people will steer clear of them.
I personally prefer games with a good mixture of PVE and PVP. Variety is the spice of life.
"Those who dislike things based only on the fact that they are popular are just as shallow and superficial as those who only like them for the same reason."
I think this is one of those topics where forum dwellers in general forget (or simply never grasped) that they represent the outspoken and very active part of the community, and this part has a way higher preference for PvP, grouping, sandbox and hardcore play (death penalties, player skill, etc) than the actual MMOG community.
I'd say that when you count all those people who play mostly an hour or two per week, you'd get about 5-10% who think PvP is the most important aspect of an MMOG, not more. That's my opinion though. If anybody has a big survey to point to (keeping in mind that people who respond to surveys also are generally more outspoken and active community members), I'd be most interesting in seeing that one.
Edit: and my apologies for by voting calling people who like PvP "fools" (including myself). As it was the only option for voting less than 20% I blame the poll maker though. ;-)
PvP is fun as long as everyone involved wants PvP and the death penalty is low. In PvE, everyone can have fun but in PvP someone is going to die. Back in the old MUD days they quickly figured out hat unrestricted PvP and free looting results in some sadistic high-level characters slaughtering new players and driving them away.
The vast majority of MMO PvP is going on in WoW battlefields, where there is no death penalty and everyone has signed up for the carnage.
Not many people want to cause grief and nobody wants to be griefed, so games like WoW are the future and niche games like EVE online can advertise "lots of griefing!" for the hardcore types. Sometimes I wonder if games like WoW piss off griefers because it gives the non-griefers somewhere safe to play.
Yea i know thats why i enjoy EvE as in there its a case of to do well as an industrial player corporation you need cheap resources and a good selling location. However so does everyone else, so it is where you can get Corporation wars for good mining turf. That's unless of course your CEO and mine can work out a good agreement which could also grow into a full trading alliance [those are fun]. So yea your right non consequential PvP with a purpose is a lot more fun that purposlessPvP.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Any poll with the question "Is PvP the most important aspect of an mmo for you?" is flawed in just so many ways why would anyone take part?
If you ask (as suggested already in this thread) people who have played WoW as their first mmo and base their opions on it I would suspect a low figure, due to the fact that its hard to imagine worse PvP. But the figure would be greater for those who have played a more varied range of mmo's and a higher figure still from those who play(ed) CS, Rainbow6, delta force etc, irrespective of them being mmo's or not.
If done well (and it hasn't been yet) PvP would be an integral part of 'that' mmo and would revolutionise the genre to point that there would be no PvE substitute.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
PVP is the mainstream
-----------------------------
SWG - PrePub9 Jedi mastered all professions - June 26th 2003 > Nov 15th 2005
EVE Online - 24 million SP - May 6th 2003 > Early 2005
PlanetSide - BR20 CR5 - May 23rd 2003 > Sept 2003
Rather lets say that WoW is mainstream [As there is a big difference between PvP and WoW PvP].
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
I honestly think that the vast majority of people don't like to PvP. A smaller number like to PvP occasionally and an even smaller number, all the time. I think that any game developer who pays too much attention to the PvP crowd is going to find themselves with a very small player base over time.
EvE is currently the exception to this but only because it's the only viable space MMO on the market. However, if Jumpgate Evolution turns out to be a good game EvE could see their numbers diminish somewhat.
Difference is PvP in WoW on a PvE server is by choice not all the time and that pretty much nails it on the head. Most of us like to adventure and occasionally PvP.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I think it also helps that EvE is a very well amde and detailed game but yea i sort of agree.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand