I don't think there is a hardocre mmo. Most mmos are more time over skill anyway. There isn't a mmo that anyone can't complete, it is just a matter of how long it takes to complete it. It is all about the fun long journey it takes to complete the game.
Lineage 2 will kick your as* backwards and forwards...twice...then again for fun. Its made by people who hate you and want you to suffer. Everything is hardcore in L2. F*cking swinging your sword cost money.
LOL.. ya I definitely agree with Torak.
btw.. hes not joking.. swinging your sword does cost money
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Yea the Dev team says that there is a bug in the F.A.I.T.H system that was around since patch No. 0001 BC which was patched in when the last Messiah heroic class died.
everyone loves the dev team.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I gotta ask, I played the eve trial and I thought it was a little boring. It seems like the best way to make money was to mine. Whats so great about that? The mines don't exactly fight back you know. Actually it seems like that was the best way to really make money... mine? Am I wrong about that?
I didn't play for long, so if someone can clue me in one whats so great about EVE i'd like to know.
I gotta ask, I played the eve trial and I thought it was a little boring. It seems like the best way to make money was to mine. Whats so great about that? The mines don't exactly fight back you know. Actually it seems like that was the best way to really make money... mine? Am I wrong about that? I didn't play for long, so if someone can clue me in one whats so great about EVE i'd like to know.
There you would be wrong. Mining is not the best way to make money by a long shot. Its just the easiest for newbies because like you said, them mines don't bit back like alot of other stuff does.
The best way to make money in Eve would be to sell items like ships, weapons, and the such. This is why most people mine, so they can build stuff to sell. Mining and selling the ore gives you very little when you compare it to how much you can make when you build. Although you need the skills to build stuff.
I believe a better way to make money in Eve when you first start out is with missions or rating, since it teaches you the basics of fighting and you can make better money.
(Actaully the best way to make money is to pirate, but noobs can't do that to well ;D )
Mining is a good way to make money in eve, buts its not the best, and by far not the most fun. If you try mine in a lowwer sec space you will find that occasionalt rats will spawn (bad npcs!) and attack you while your trying to mine. The best way of making money on eve i found was to do the high level missions or go vigil anti and start hutning pirates, although you have to be fairly well equiped to do either. I'v heard from some people that piracy was a good way to make money but iv never seen how myself, as for the EVE trial its very limited in what it lets you do, it doesent by far give you enough time to develop a half decent character and do some of the more fun thing in the game like PvP, i found it to be like alot of game demos, but even more restricting as the progress you can make in that time usually isent enough to allow you to do alot of things ( succesfully anyways )
forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.
Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.
- Zaxx
Really? Most of the screenshots I've seen seem 'shopped.
I'm a level 68 mage IRL, but I can't afford to train any new spells.
My only current ones are:
1. Under Water-walking
2. Flammable gas cloud of death
3. Vanishing Chicken (aka "hide the sausage")
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Sorry, but EVE is far from Hardcore. Now I understand that for some, it IS the hardest game they've played. But having played EVE and many other MMOs, it's rather tame.
If you want Hardcore PvP, I'd say WWIIOnline (which I'm partial to). It is very unforgiving to mistakes, and takes real personal skill and extensive knowledge of real-world equipment to be successful.
EQ1 was the hardest PvE MMO I've played, but I'm quite sure the Asian grinders put it to shame. Definitely L2 or Final Fantasy would likely beat it, though I've not played either.
Entropia Universe is an interesting entry into this catagory that I hadn't considered.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Great choices so far (Esp RL ha-ha!!). Just been reading up on FFXI, is that the only MMO where you can actually lose levels? Hmm are there no raids or "partys" in FFXI?
EVE has a hardcore death penalty, but that doesn't mean it's a hardcore game. It's the kind of game that you can make as hardcore as you like. You can stay most of the time, or all of the time, in high sec space doing things like trading, manufacturing, running missions and stuff like that and it's a very casual game. You can go into 0.0 and play the ganking game, and it becomes more hardcore, but even then you can play that aspect of the game casually, because once you know what you are doing it is very easy to avoid being killed. All you need to do is have the discipline to log off when needed and you're set -- not particularly hardcore.
Don't get me wrong I played EVE a lot from 2004 through 2006. It can be a very fun game, and a lot of people play it in a very hardcore way. But you can also play it in a very casual way if you want to, and completely avoid the hardcore aspects of the game.
I'd have to say that some of the Asian games, where things are very grind intensive and/or very group intensive, are probably among the most hardcore ones out there. But to be honest, MMOs generally are not that hardcore -- unless you take hardcore to mean "lots of time required".
Tough question if you stop to think about it, because a lot of the MMO's now are casual friendly. Is Vanguard the most hardcore right now? [my PC can't handle it, oh well] My first thought was EVE-Online, but actually it isn't because there is no "grinding" as such, yet the PvP part is arguably the harshest. Just want to get an idea what everyone thinks is still the most hardcore MMO, in terms of everything, PvP, 'accessible' etc. I guess when AoC is released that could be called hardcore [but that's a different type of hardcore ]. Does an MMO with a lower population make it more hardcore, because the economy is bonkers, there aren't enough players and resources?
I'd say Lineage 2 is the hardest core MMORPG out there and I would like anyone to show me a harder game.
PvE- Huge grind, can delevel, can be killed at any time by anyone.
PvP- Open PvP, can be killed at anytime by anyone.
Economy- Gear is severely expensive and most can't afford it without buying gold. Gold is hard to come by and you never have enough to fully outfit yourself and keep up on SS.
EvE has raw PvP like L2, but it doesn't have a PvE grind and the economy is actually balanced so that you can afford something at reasonable times.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Originally posted by SaintViktor I don't think there is a hardcore mmo. Most mmos are more time over skill anyway.
Yes, I dislike the term hardcore as well because you'd think it should apply to MMORPGs a 'hardcore gamer' would enjoy. But the popular context seems to involve only which mmo has the most brainless and brutally punishing leveling curve.
Great ! Thats the thread I wanted to start myself !
Well - I play Vanguard and I have played Lineage 2, though the later mostly, uh, on freeshards, because the original game, really, no thank you ! I'm all for the challenge but at some point it becomes masochism - and I'm no masochist.
If you seriously claim that Vanguard is harder than Lineage 2, then you're out of your mind, and that really completely - or havent played both games. It's so easy to get your stuff in Vanguard ! People get to maxlevel in this game in like a month. Some people even in a week !
Of course, Vanguard lacks any serious PvP right now. There is PvP on one server, but its totally not a game element as is, only some kind of childish banditery. Ugh. I would rather go for castle sieges and clan wars, thank you very much !
Maybe I'm biased there. But whenever I check maxlevel players equipment in Vanguard, they usually have simply brilliant stuff. Its really not that hard to get it. Do a bit harvest and you get the glory in, like, no time. Compared to Lineage 2, anyway.
And the fights ... in Vanguard, you really can solo ! Of course not EVERYWHERE - some places are simply too tough. And not with every class. An on highlevel, i.e. around level 40, on, its really getting harder. But even then, if you choose one of the solofriendly classes, you can really solo a lot. Plus, there is NO class in Vanguard that isnt group friendly. If people dont group with you, they're just stupid.
In Lineage 2... on my Shillien Elder, I got killed by mobs which where so much below my level that I wouldnt have received ANY xp from killing them. And they still slaughtered me easily !
As a sidenote, swinging your sword costs only money in Lineage 2 as long as you use "soul shots". Now soul shots double the damage you deal, so obviously they are VERY desireable. But you dont HAVE to use them - in the end its just an option.
A lot of people mention EVE and FFXI here... sadly both games are completely off my radar as I'm totally into the classic fantasy thing with magic, elves, and dragons and stuff like that.
Meaning: You have a complex set of tools that a allow a rich set of strategies. Of this set of strategies, you meet varied challenges which have to be solved individually. And, finally, the game is simply hard - you dont succeed if you fail to find the right strategy.
As a sidenote, swinging your sword costs only money in Lineage 2 as long as you use "soul shots". Now soul shots double the damage you deal, so obviously they are VERY desireable. But you dont HAVE to use them - in the end its just an option.
But that is truely a masochist option and just about impossible to level in a practical way in L2 without SS. I played L2 for a long time and really, its just not a real option for a player. (unless you are being PL'ed by your guild mates or something)
I have to agree that L2 is the most hardcore of the MMO's out at the moment. The developers designed it as a hardcore game in mind from the beginning, and it definitely shows. Leveling is painfully slow, acquiring money is even more painful, and FFA pvp on all servers to my knowledge. Additionally, you have a chance of dropping a random item, and you lose a decent percentage of exp on death.
If you want to make the game even more hardcore try to play all the way through as a dwarf. The money grind won't be as painful, but level grinding will be even worse.
I have to agree that L2 is the most hardcore of the MMO's out at the moment. The developers designed it as a hardcore game in mind from the beginning, and it definitely shows. Leveling is painfully slow, acquiring money is even more painful, and FFA pvp on all servers to my knowledge. Additionally, you have a chance of dropping a random item, and you lose a decent percentage of exp on death. If you want to make the game even more hardcore try to play all the way through as a dwarf. The money grind won't be as painful, but level grinding will be even worse.
you dont drop item now unless your karma is 5 and above.
A lot of people mention EVE and FFXI here... sadly both games are completely off my radar as I'm totally into the classic fantasy thing with magic, elves, and dragons and stuff like that.
Originally posted by zaxtor99 Originally posted by paulscott real life. forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.
Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.
- Zaxx
Try second life then... or Doughs'(from The Office) Second Second life...
Comments
.
FF XI . Required ALOT of time, dedication and patience but accomplishing things has never felt as rewarding as in this game so far for me.
I don't think there is a hardocre mmo. Most mmos are more time over skill anyway. There isn't a mmo that anyone can't complete, it is just a matter of how long it takes to complete it. It is all about the fun long journey it takes to complete the game.
btw.. hes not joking.. swinging your sword does cost money
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Yea the Dev team says that there is a bug in the F.A.I.T.H system that was around since patch No. 0001 BC which was patched in when the last Messiah heroic class died.
everyone loves the dev team.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
EvE
Been trolling a while, figured id jump in...
I gotta ask, I played the eve trial and I thought it was a little boring. It seems like the best way to make money was to mine. Whats so great about that? The mines don't exactly fight back you know. Actually it seems like that was the best way to really make money... mine? Am I wrong about that?
I didn't play for long, so if someone can clue me in one whats so great about EVE i'd like to know.
The best way to make money in Eve would be to sell items like ships, weapons, and the such. This is why most people mine, so they can build stuff to sell. Mining and selling the ore gives you very little when you compare it to how much you can make when you build. Although you need the skills to build stuff.
I believe a better way to make money in Eve when you first start out is with missions or rating, since it teaches you the basics of fighting and you can make better money.
(Actaully the best way to make money is to pirate, but noobs can't do that to well ;D )
Mining is a good way to make money in eve, buts its not the best, and by far not the most fun. If you try mine in a lowwer sec space you will find that occasionalt rats will spawn (bad npcs!) and attack you while your trying to mine. The best way of making money on eve i found was to do the high level missions or go vigil anti and start hutning pirates, although you have to be fairly well equiped to do either. I'v heard from some people that piracy was a good way to make money but iv never seen how myself, as for the EVE trial its very limited in what it lets you do, it doesent by far give you enough time to develop a half decent character and do some of the more fun thing in the game like PvP, i found it to be like alot of game demos, but even more restricting as the progress you can make in that time usually isent enough to allow you to do alot of things ( succesfully anyways )
Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.
- Zaxx
Really? Most of the screenshots I've seen seem 'shopped.
I'm a level 68 mage IRL, but I can't afford to train any new spells.
My only current ones are:
1. Under Water-walking
2. Flammable gas cloud of death
3. Vanishing Chicken (aka "hide the sausage")
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Sorry, but EVE is far from Hardcore. Now I understand that for some, it IS the hardest game they've played. But having played EVE and many other MMOs, it's rather tame.
If you want Hardcore PvP, I'd say WWIIOnline (which I'm partial to). It is very unforgiving to mistakes, and takes real personal skill and extensive knowledge of real-world equipment to be successful.
EQ1 was the hardest PvE MMO I've played, but I'm quite sure the Asian grinders put it to shame. Definitely L2 or Final Fantasy would likely beat it, though I've not played either.
Entropia Universe is an interesting entry into this catagory that I hadn't considered.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
You can lose levels, money to do a single hit, you can lose exp if someone kill you (free pvp/pk), you can lose your life playing this game!
You'll see what hardcore really means
EVE has a hardcore death penalty, but that doesn't mean it's a hardcore game. It's the kind of game that you can make as hardcore as you like. You can stay most of the time, or all of the time, in high sec space doing things like trading, manufacturing, running missions and stuff like that and it's a very casual game. You can go into 0.0 and play the ganking game, and it becomes more hardcore, but even then you can play that aspect of the game casually, because once you know what you are doing it is very easy to avoid being killed. All you need to do is have the discipline to log off when needed and you're set -- not particularly hardcore.
Don't get me wrong I played EVE a lot from 2004 through 2006. It can be a very fun game, and a lot of people play it in a very hardcore way. But you can also play it in a very casual way if you want to, and completely avoid the hardcore aspects of the game.
I'd have to say that some of the Asian games, where things are very grind intensive and/or very group intensive, are probably among the most hardcore ones out there. But to be honest, MMOs generally are not that hardcore -- unless you take hardcore to mean "lots of time required".
I'd say Lineage 2 is the hardest core MMORPG out there and I would like anyone to show me a harder game.
PvE- Huge grind, can delevel, can be killed at any time by anyone.
PvP- Open PvP, can be killed at anytime by anyone.
Economy- Gear is severely expensive and most can't afford it without buying gold. Gold is hard to come by and you never have enough to fully outfit yourself and keep up on SS.
EvE has raw PvP like L2, but it doesn't have a PvE grind and the economy is actually balanced so that you can afford something at reasonable times.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Yes, I dislike the term hardcore as well because you'd think it should apply to MMORPGs a 'hardcore gamer' would enjoy. But the popular context seems to involve only which mmo has the most brainless and brutally punishing leveling curve.
Is that what you're asking us for?
Great ! Thats the thread I wanted to start myself !
Well - I play Vanguard and I have played Lineage 2, though the later mostly, uh, on freeshards, because the original game, really, no thank you ! I'm all for the challenge but at some point it becomes masochism - and I'm no masochist.
If you seriously claim that Vanguard is harder than Lineage 2, then you're out of your mind, and that really completely - or havent played both games. It's so easy to get your stuff in Vanguard ! People get to maxlevel in this game in like a month. Some people even in a week !
Of course, Vanguard lacks any serious PvP right now. There is PvP on one server, but its totally not a game element as is, only some kind of childish banditery. Ugh. I would rather go for castle sieges and clan wars, thank you very much !
Maybe I'm biased there. But whenever I check maxlevel players equipment in Vanguard, they usually have simply brilliant stuff. Its really not that hard to get it. Do a bit harvest and you get the glory in, like, no time. Compared to Lineage 2, anyway.
And the fights ... in Vanguard, you really can solo ! Of course not EVERYWHERE - some places are simply too tough. And not with every class. An on highlevel, i.e. around level 40, on, its really getting harder. But even then, if you choose one of the solofriendly classes, you can really solo a lot. Plus, there is NO class in Vanguard that isnt group friendly. If people dont group with you, they're just stupid.
In Lineage 2... on my Shillien Elder, I got killed by mobs which where so much below my level that I wouldnt have received ANY xp from killing them. And they still slaughtered me easily !
As a sidenote, swinging your sword costs only money in Lineage 2 as long as you use "soul shots". Now soul shots double the damage you deal, so obviously they are VERY desireable. But you dont HAVE to use them - in the end its just an option.
A lot of people mention EVE and FFXI here... sadly both games are completely off my radar as I'm totally into the classic fantasy thing with magic, elves, and dragons and stuff like that.
Now about "what is a hardcore game" ?
Well I have to say I would define it as:
- complex
- rich
- hard
- varied
Meaning: You have a complex set of tools that a allow a rich set of strategies. Of this set of strategies, you meet varied challenges which have to be solved individually. And, finally, the game is simply hard - you dont succeed if you fail to find the right strategy.
But that is truely a masochist option and just about impossible to level in a practical way in L2 without SS. I played L2 for a long time and really, its just not a real option for a player. (unless you are being PL'ed by your guild mates or something)
L2 is by far the most hardcore of them all.
Second pick would be L1, from what I know noone reached the max level yet (if there is one) and the game has been out for like what? 8 years?
I have to agree that L2 is the most hardcore of the MMO's out at the moment. The developers designed it as a hardcore game in mind from the beginning, and it definitely shows. Leveling is painfully slow, acquiring money is even more painful, and FFA pvp on all servers to my knowledge. Additionally, you have a chance of dropping a random item, and you lose a decent percentage of exp on death.
If you want to make the game even more hardcore try to play all the way through as a dwarf. The money grind won't be as painful, but level grinding will be even worse.
Which FF Character Are You?
Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.
- Zaxx
Try second life then... or Doughs'(from The Office) Second Second life...
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
Well said. Think alot of people misunderstand the meaning of hardcore here..
Example of a few hardcore mmo's are : Everquest 1 , Anarchy Online and Asherons Call as mentioned above.
Thats a few complex oldskool mmo's that takes time to master, and you wont find alot of "WTF ROFL PWN kidz" begging for gold, but more mature players.