This is why things like stealth gets nerfed so hard in so many games too. Heaven forbid any character be smart enough to actually sneak past a guard or fly over an army to get to his or her objective. That would make too much sense. MMO mentality requires that you slice and dice everything in your path every time.
Using a skill that somehow makes you invisible and allows you to walk past guards is being smart? No, its taking the easy way to finish something that should be hard. If there actually involved any intelligence to sneak past that guard then I would agree with you, but it doesnt.
This thread shows yet another thing that WoW did to ruin the MMORPG genre. Before you had to actually do something hard to be able to get something special. But now everything should be handed to us on golden platter and as soon as possible. You know if everythingis easy to get and everyone got it, then nothing would be special and there wouldnt be anything worth striving for. Wasnt Vanguard supposed to be the opposite of WoW where everything is easy and casual?
It has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with linearity and nonlinearity. Level requirement is the worst and easiest trick for devs to ensure the content is being explored in a linear way.
I agree, having a level requirement is an easy way to make something appear hard (or impossible). But removing the level requirement would help do what?
This thread shows yet another thing that WoW did to ruin the MMORPG genre. Before you had to actually do something hard to be able to get something special. But now everything should be handed to us on golden platter and as soon as possible.
I don't follow you here. Many other games give players travel forms earlier than WoW does at level 40. Also WoWs flying mounts are only attainable at max level, only usable in the new expansion and also allow access to certain areas/dungeons that you can't get to before then. The flying mounts in WoW trivialize travel by making is safe (in some spots you get shot down if you fly over), but it also opens up more content. It at least has some purpose other than just travel.
You know, everyone seems to forget that EQ gave Druids an Awesome travel spell (SOW - Spirit of the Wolf) at level 14 that could be cast on anyone and had a nice decent duration. And, it improved several times as they leveled up.
Ever since then, devs have just been unable (even the EQ ones) to match the fun and capability of that simple spell.
You know, everyone seems to forget that EQ gave Druids an Awesome travel spell (SOW - Spirit of the Wolf) at level 14 that could be cast on anyone and had a nice decent duration. And, it improved several times as they leveled up. Ever since then, devs have just been unable (even the EQ ones) to match the fun and capability of that simple spell.
SOW was nothing inherantly special as it was a simple run buff but what made it special was because it was rare with run buffs. Which is the point that I am trying to get a cross. If you make something hard to obtain (in this case by limiting it to one class or having that one class cast it on you) and it is a trait that is wanted then it will become special.
Likewise with flying mounts, make it so that everyone can get it at low level then it will cease to become special and just be something that everyone has.
Likewise with anything in an MMORPG. Make something valuable hard to obtain and it will be special, make it easily obtainable and it will become boring and bland, since everyone has it.
There are so many things that could be done with both flying and ground mounts to make them fun and accessible to all players, while still retaining the benefits for those upper level players too. For instance...
How about mounts have stamina? A mount can only carry you as long as it has stamina. So higher level mounts have more stamina and can go further without rest. Would go for both flying and ground mounts. A low level mount might be able to fly around with you for 2 mins and then need to rest for 5 mins, whereas a high level mount could fly you for 10 mins before needing to rest for 5 mins.
Higher level mounts could assist you in battle. If you have a flying griffon or dragon mount, then that damn thing should be able to help you out as a combat pet while you're not riding it! Make different mount/pets have different abilities - some fighting skills, some magic/healing skills, etc.
Low level mounts could be cheaper and less "desirable", but also available to lower level characters. Make players want to save up gold or complete harder quests to get the cooler mounts. Say low level flying mounts might be eagles, giant bats, or giant insects. Mid level mounts might be hippogriffs, griffons, and pegasi. High level mounts could be dragons, wyverns, or some other very sought after mount type.
I think retaining ALL flying mounts for end game characters and then on top of that not really being creative with them is kind of a waste. Hopefully some Dev with some vision sees these posts and pushes for some improvement.
Playing WoT now.
Favorite All-Time Games: Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online
Are they including Wyrms? I hear everyone saying every flying mount but I still haven't heard or seen any specifics on which mounts "for my Dark Elf is why I am asking?".
And yeah, I agree, keep them at level 45ish/50ish. We don't need any level 1s with a level 50 mount flying around and on the topic I hope the quests are really, really interesting (I would actually come back for this).
This game is not doing well from what I hear. Instead of putting cool stuff at the end of the game where few people will get to experience it, they need to start adding or making accessible cool stuff in the beginning to draw people in and keep them in.
First impressions are important. Vanguard already screwed this up royally. Now they need to work even harder to get people back and add new people after all the negative press.
I am very tempted to play this game again. But then do I want to invest a mountain of time into a game that already is chugging along population wise and also being run by a company with a history of making broad sweeping changes overnight. And I'm still not convinced that performance issues have been fixed with this game. What would convince me....maybe a flying mount or maybe a house. Maybe. I never even got to see private houses ingame. Wonder what that was like.
There are so many things that could be done with both flying and ground mounts to make them fun and accessible to all players, while still retaining the benefits for those upper level players too. For instance... How about mounts have stamina? A mount can only carry you as long as it has stamina. So higher level mounts have more stamina and can go further without rest. Would go for both flying and ground mounts. A low level mount might be able to fly around with you for 2 mins and then need to rest for 5 mins, whereas a high level mount could fly you for 10 mins before needing to rest for 5 mins. Higher level mounts could assist you in battle. If you have a flying griffon or dragon mount, then that damn thing should be able to help you out as a combat pet while you're not riding it! Make different mount/pets have different abilities - some fighting skills, some magic/healing skills, etc. Low level mounts could be cheaper and less "desirable", but also available to lower level characters. Make players want to save up gold or complete harder quests to get the cooler mounts. Say low level flying mounts might be eagles, giant bats, or giant insects. Mid level mounts might be hippogriffs, griffons, and pegasi. High level mounts could be dragons, wyverns, or some other very sought after mount type. I think retaining ALL flying mounts for end game characters and then on top of that not really being creative with them is kind of a waste. Hopefully some Dev with some vision sees these posts and pushes for some improvement.
Bah! I should have read your post before I made mine. Your ideas are perfect.
dont really care about the flying mount debate, just speaking up to pretty much disagree with the mindset that casual players should be able to recieve the same gear as hardcore players,
personally i dont really see why they care, i was a casual EQ player and i loved the fact that there was the unachievable, it was something to strive for, im a hardcore raider in Vanguard and there isnt enough seperation from non raiding gear to raiding gear as is (pretty much all of APW can be done in swamp gear that takes like a week to get), As a tank i gain like 2,000 hp with the raid set over the crafted/swamp gear, aka pathetic
maybe im just missing something that says your entitled to the best gear in the game if your not willing to put in the time and effort
Agree with you completely! in eq there was always something that if i saved up for months or got lucky enough to get in a group or raid that could actualy handle it, i got something that not every player had. Thats what made contested dungeons so great. Now people seem to think that if they pay the same sub then they should be able to get the same equip, news for you all ...you can if you try hard enough. is there anything that you cant get in this game if you try hard enough? name one thing! so you want that APW set but your not in a raid guild! go join one. watch out for pick up raids. you dont have enough online time? make some or accept that you have to go an alternative way....just like me. if we both buy a formula one racing game for the same price and i spend 5 hours a day on it while you pop on for 30 mins twice a week then we race each other,should they change the rules so we can both finish first? ok i hear you saying but that involves skill. sorry but so does VG. i hear people saying i cant go further in this quest because i am faced with 3 dots or 4 dots. well again sorry but there are players that can handle this with a bit of effort. i wear crafted weapons and a crafted chest plate! the rest of my gear is made up of blues/ greens and the occasional yellow. i am soloing the swamps at min with my ranger and when i come across a 4 dot then i clear the area and kite them. i go through all that hard work just to achieve what somone else did in 30 mins grouped! do i complain...not at all, for me its being able to do it that makes it so special.
This game is not doing well from what I hear. Instead of putting cool stuff at the end of the game where few people will get to experience it, they need to start adding or making accessible cool stuff in the beginning to draw people in and keep them in.
First impressions are important. Vanguard already screwed this up royally. Now they need to work even harder to get people back and add new people after all the negative press.
I am very tempted to play this game again. But then do I want to invest a mountain of time into a game that already is chugging along population wise and also being run by a company with a history of making broad sweeping changes overnight. And I'm still not convinced that performance issues have been fixed with this game. What would convince me....maybe a flying mount or maybe a house. Maybe. I never even got to see private houses ingame. Wonder what that was like.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You know what! touching again on the idea's how to incorperate lower level mounts. Somone suggested stamina running out. but clever players would climb a mountain find a resting place wait for the refresh and then go again and reach the harder places with just a little bit more time. So why not add hight restrictions? a lower level mount can fly as long as you like but only reaches a certain altitude. the altitude is set at a level where it will never reach that high level dungeon in the clouds. A level 50 mount can reach the highest peak in game at the min and so you can reach those places. maybe even a city in the clouds that has certain merchants/crafting that can only be found in this city but offers players something that ground citys can't.
Another diea is the dreaded instances. ok take level restrictions of but add quests that are skill based for example. My 45 ranger enters the arena to face the final challenge in the griffon quest line, most people can only complete this quest at level 50 but i am going to try at level 45. i enter the arena and get killed because the quest was designed for a higher level. this way at least it gives you the chance of gaining the griffon earlier if you have the skills.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).
The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).
The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).
The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
I always recall how bad I felt in EQ2 with my shabby average armor, and all the people in purple uber amor standing around, and I dont like to feel not 2nd best but 10th best only. Generally I would like to see any "inspect" function generally deactivated.
A friend of mine who playes a lot of WOW has also reported me a similar gripe. He enjoys mostly PVP, and in the old WOW days it was easy to just find people for a PVP arena, go in and the best team won. Now with the expansion there is so much hard to get raid gear which gives hardcore players so much advantage, when a normal player enters the arena you can just forget it. Now while VG is not much into PVP, the idea the gap becomes so far really sounds terrible to me. I really would not like to see such a WOW-ization of VG. Some gap is ok but when ppl feel declassed by exorbitant rewards too many will just feel unwelcome. Maybe its unavoidable after a game is many years old and has dozens of expansions, but a game without any expansion should not already widen the player gap.
Thats all why I enjoyed CoH SO MUCH, and would have played it for the rest of my live, if I werent just fed up with every place being either offices or warehouses. There were NO items at all, no gear and thus no greed, no comparision who "has the biggest one", no grief, just plain pure fun. Maybe you all try it out and learn how relaxing the lack of the greed-spiral can be.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
People always seem to think that extra time means better equip. Your so wrong! ok players in a guild that can run through a dungeon 4 times as fast as a pick up group can get better equip faster and so they should. this whole foolish " i pay the same so i should have the same" is nonsense. go buy an ebay char or something if you want to just buy the best equip. if i pay the same subs as you but dont play for 3 weeks i dont expect to be the same level as you, thats plain nonsense.
Every item is available to every player that pays his subs! that's a plain fact. can you name an item thats not available to a certain player? i can't.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
Everyone gets the same amount of reward for the effort put in. Why people think they should be rewarded by measuring time spent per day/week/month between different player is a way to even things out is an unreasonable expectation to put on a game. If two people both put 4 hours of work into a quest the reward is the exact same. It doesn't get better just because someone plays more hours a week then you do. So what if they play more than the next player. What would you have devs do to even things out? Not give rewards to the player with more time or give free rewards to the player that doesn't play as much?
I have no idea where people get the basis for wanting as many rewards for completing less in game actions than the next guy simply because we all pay the same subscription fee. Paying the same subscription fee giveseveryone the same potential playtime. What each player does with that time is their own choice and shouldn't be a factor to determine in game equality.
Play the game and enjoy what you get, stop trying to keep up with the joneses. There are plenty of people who play various time amounts that there is always a group of people to share similar play with. Staring at other people and drooling over their purple gear or flying mounts isn't a fair basis to call for game balance.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).
The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
I always recall how bad I felt in EQ2 with my shabby average armor, and all the people in purple uber amor standing around, and I dont like to feel not 2nd best but 10th best only. Generally I would like to see any "inspect" function generally deactivated.
A friend of mine who playes a lot of WOW has also reported me a similar gripe. He enjoys mostly PVP, and in the old WOW days it was easy to just find people for a PVP arena, go in and the best team won. Now with the expansion there is so much hard to get raid gear which gives hardcore players so much advantage, when a normal player enters the arena you can just forget it. Now while VG is not much into PVP, the idea the gap becomes so far really sounds terrible to me. I really would not like to see such a WOW-ization of VG. Some gap is ok but when ppl feel declassed by exorbitant rewards too many will just feel unwelcome. Maybe its unavoidable after a game is many years old and has dozens of expansions, but a game without any expansion should not already widen the player gap.
Thats all why I enjoyed CoH SO MUCH, and would have played it for the rest of my live, if I werent just fed up with every place being either offices or warehouses. There were NO items at all, no gear and thus no greed, no comparision who "has the biggest one", no grief, just plain pure fun. Maybe you all try it out and learn how relaxing the lack of the greed-spiral can be.
While I do understand your point(s) I don't agree. My time is also quite limited - in about 2 weeks I've been playing my main for a full year and just recently got him to level 45. My armor and weapons is a mix of quest rewards, crafted stuff and world drops. I would say the avg. item level is somewhere around 35, and not a single part matches the color the other.
I look like a clown.
The thing is that I don't care. I don't play to show off and I don't care about players who do. If I'm kicked from a group because my gear sucks (haven't experienced that) even before we get going I don't think I would have enjoyed their company anyway.
It might take me a year to get a flying mount depending on how they decide to put it in game, but eventually I will most likely have it - and possibly feel a bit proud.
Giving players easy access to the cool stuff only creates a demand for new even cooler stuff.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
I can understand your frustration Elikal. I also wish I had more free time to spend gaming. I would like to be an involved participant on APW raids, but I simply don't have the time. It is true that you pay the same amount as everyone else, and you in return are granted the sameaccess that everyone else gets. If you choose to devote your free time to family, friends, working, and studying (and I think that's a wise decision), accept that people who spend more time and effort at the game are going to receive rewards that you will not.
Do you think that people who spend all day playing games should get a degree just becuase they paid tuition? Of course not. The cost only provides opportunity. What you do with that oppurtunity determines your rewards.
EDIT: Bah, should have read through the rest of the thread. Agree with Daffid011.
Originally posted by DailyBuzz Do you think that people who spend all day playing games should get a degree just becuase they paid tuition? Of course not. The cost only provides opportunity. What you do with that oppurtunity determines your rewards.
I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time.
So how exactly do you want the game to work ?
You log in once every week for five minutes, and *BOOM* you get the same result of a guy that has time to play all day and every day of the week ?
And you dont pay for the results you get in game. You pay for the upkeep of the game. What you're doing ingame is totally your own problem.
Comments
Using a skill that somehow makes you invisible and allows you to walk past guards is being smart? No, its taking the easy way to finish something that should be hard. If there actually involved any intelligence to sneak past that guard then I would agree with you, but it doesnt.
My gaming blog
It has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with linearity and nonlinearity. Level requirement is the worst and easiest trick for devs to ensure the content is being explored in a linear way.
I agree, having a level requirement is an easy way to make something appear hard (or impossible). But removing the level requirement would help do what?
It would make something that is hard, easy.
My gaming blog
You know, everyone seems to forget that EQ gave Druids an Awesome travel spell (SOW - Spirit of the Wolf) at level 14 that could be cast on anyone and had a nice decent duration. And, it improved several times as they leveled up.
Ever since then, devs have just been unable (even the EQ ones) to match the fun and capability of that simple spell.
Likewise with flying mounts, make it so that everyone can get it at low level then it will cease to become special and just be something that everyone has.
Likewise with anything in an MMORPG. Make something valuable hard to obtain and it will be special, make it easily obtainable and it will become boring and bland, since everyone has it.
My gaming blog
There are so many things that could be done with both flying and ground mounts to make them fun and accessible to all players, while still retaining the benefits for those upper level players too. For instance...
How about mounts have stamina? A mount can only carry you as long as it has stamina. So higher level mounts have more stamina and can go further without rest. Would go for both flying and ground mounts. A low level mount might be able to fly around with you for 2 mins and then need to rest for 5 mins, whereas a high level mount could fly you for 10 mins before needing to rest for 5 mins.
Higher level mounts could assist you in battle. If you have a flying griffon or dragon mount, then that damn thing should be able to help you out as a combat pet while you're not riding it! Make different mount/pets have different abilities - some fighting skills, some magic/healing skills, etc.
Low level mounts could be cheaper and less "desirable", but also available to lower level characters. Make players want to save up gold or complete harder quests to get the cooler mounts. Say low level flying mounts might be eagles, giant bats, or giant insects. Mid level mounts might be hippogriffs, griffons, and pegasi. High level mounts could be dragons, wyverns, or some other very sought after mount type.
I think retaining ALL flying mounts for end game characters and then on top of that not really being creative with them is kind of a waste. Hopefully some Dev with some vision sees these posts and pushes for some improvement.
Playing WoT now.
Favorite All-Time Games: Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online
Are they including Wyrms? I hear everyone saying every flying mount but I still haven't heard or seen any specifics on which mounts "for my Dark Elf is why I am asking?".
And yeah, I agree, keep them at level 45ish/50ish. We don't need any level 1s with a level 50 mount flying around and on the topic I hope the quests are really, really interesting (I would actually come back for this).
This game is not doing well from what I hear. Instead of putting cool stuff at the end of the game where few people will get to experience it, they need to start adding or making accessible cool stuff in the beginning to draw people in and keep them in.
First impressions are important. Vanguard already screwed this up royally. Now they need to work even harder to get people back and add new people after all the negative press.
I am very tempted to play this game again. But then do I want to invest a mountain of time into a game that already is chugging along population wise and also being run by a company with a history of making broad sweeping changes overnight. And I'm still not convinced that performance issues have been fixed with this game. What would convince me....maybe a flying mount or maybe a house. Maybe. I never even got to see private houses ingame. Wonder what that was like.
Bah! I should have read your post before I made mine. Your ideas are perfect.
dont really care about the flying mount debate, just speaking up to pretty much disagree with the mindset that casual players should be able to recieve the same gear as hardcore players,
personally i dont really see why they care, i was a casual EQ player and i loved the fact that there was the unachievable, it was something to strive for, im a hardcore raider in Vanguard and there isnt enough seperation from non raiding gear to raiding gear as is (pretty much all of APW can be done in swamp gear that takes like a week to get), As a tank i gain like 2,000 hp with the raid set over the crafted/swamp gear, aka pathetic
maybe im just missing something that says your entitled to the best gear in the game if your not willing to put in the time and effort
Raid Officer
Blades of Wrath
Vanguard
Agree with you completely! in eq there was always something that if i saved up for months or got lucky enough to get in a group or raid that could actualy handle it, i got something that not every player had. Thats what made contested dungeons so great. Now people seem to think that if they pay the same sub then they should be able to get the same equip, news for you all ...you can if you try hard enough. is there anything that you cant get in this game if you try hard enough? name one thing! so you want that APW set but your not in a raid guild! go join one. watch out for pick up raids. you dont have enough online time? make some or accept that you have to go an alternative way....just like me. if we both buy a formula one racing game for the same price and i spend 5 hours a day on it while you pop on for 30 mins twice a week then we race each other,should they change the rules so we can both finish first? ok i hear you saying but that involves skill. sorry but so does VG. i hear people saying i cant go further in this quest because i am faced with 3 dots or 4 dots. well again sorry but there are players that can handle this with a bit of effort. i wear crafted weapons and a crafted chest plate! the rest of my gear is made up of blues/ greens and the occasional yellow. i am soloing the swamps at min with my ranger and when i come across a 4 dot then i clear the area and kite them. i go through all that hard work just to achieve what somone else did in 30 mins grouped! do i complain...not at all, for me its being able to do it that makes it so special.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You know what! touching again on the idea's how to incorperate lower level mounts. Somone suggested stamina running out. but clever players would climb a mountain find a resting place wait for the refresh and then go again and reach the harder places with just a little bit more time. So why not add hight restrictions? a lower level mount can fly as long as you like but only reaches a certain altitude. the altitude is set at a level where it will never reach that high level dungeon in the clouds. A level 50 mount can reach the highest peak in game at the min and so you can reach those places. maybe even a city in the clouds that has certain merchants/crafting that can only be found in this city but offers players something that ground citys can't.
Another diea is the dreaded instances. ok take level restrictions of but add quests that are skill based for example. My 45 ranger enters the arena to face the final challenge in the griffon quest line, most people can only complete this quest at level 50 but i am going to try at level 45. i enter the arena and get killed because the quest was designed for a higher level. this way at least it gives you the chance of gaining the griffon earlier if you have the skills.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
I totally agree!
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
I always recall how bad I felt in EQ2 with my shabby average armor, and all the people in purple uber amor standing around, and I dont like to feel not 2nd best but 10th best only. Generally I would like to see any "inspect" function generally deactivated.
A friend of mine who playes a lot of WOW has also reported me a similar gripe. He enjoys mostly PVP, and in the old WOW days it was easy to just find people for a PVP arena, go in and the best team won. Now with the expansion there is so much hard to get raid gear which gives hardcore players so much advantage, when a normal player enters the arena you can just forget it. Now while VG is not much into PVP, the idea the gap becomes so far really sounds terrible to me. I really would not like to see such a WOW-ization of VG. Some gap is ok but when ppl feel declassed by exorbitant rewards too many will just feel unwelcome. Maybe its unavoidable after a game is many years old and has dozens of expansions, but a game without any expansion should not already widen the player gap.
Thats all why I enjoyed CoH SO MUCH, and would have played it for the rest of my live, if I werent just fed up with every place being either offices or warehouses. There were NO items at all, no gear and thus no greed, no comparision who "has the biggest one", no grief, just plain pure fun. Maybe you all try it out and learn how relaxing the lack of the greed-spiral can be.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
People always seem to think that extra time means better equip. Your so wrong! ok players in a guild that can run through a dungeon 4 times as fast as a pick up group can get better equip faster and so they should. this whole foolish " i pay the same so i should have the same" is nonsense. go buy an ebay char or something if you want to just buy the best equip. if i pay the same subs as you but dont play for 3 weeks i dont expect to be the same level as you, thats plain nonsense.
Every item is available to every player that pays his subs! that's a plain fact. can you name an item thats not available to a certain player? i can't.
Everyone gets the same amount of reward for the effort put in. Why people think they should be rewarded by measuring time spent per day/week/month between different player is a way to even things out is an unreasonable expectation to put on a game. If two people both put 4 hours of work into a quest the reward is the exact same. It doesn't get better just because someone plays more hours a week then you do. So what if they play more than the next player. What would you have devs do to even things out? Not give rewards to the player with more time or give free rewards to the player that doesn't play as much?
I have no idea where people get the basis for wanting as many rewards for completing less in game actions than the next guy simply because we all pay the same subscription fee. Paying the same subscription fee giveseveryone the same potential playtime. What each player does with that time is their own choice and shouldn't be a factor to determine in game equality.
Play the game and enjoy what you get, stop trying to keep up with the joneses. There are plenty of people who play various time amounts that there is always a group of people to share similar play with. Staring at other people and drooling over their purple gear or flying mounts isn't a fair basis to call for game balance.
Good thinking! VG needs attractions, something ppl to say "hey I havent seen this anywhere else" that makes them want to try the game, not MORE things reserved to a minority of endgame raiders. MMOs should not cater the particular interests of hardcore gamers even more.
VG does have both casual and hardcore elements. If you are a casual gamer though, it isn't appropriate to compare yourself or your rewards to the hardcore. The hardcore players will always beat you on an itemized comparison (as they should).The TTH article stated that the flying mounts would not require a raid to obtain. I agree with this decision. It should, in my opinion, be a group (elite comes to mind) quest reward, and should be a long and arduous journey. The epic ground mount quests are some of my favorite in VG. They lead you to every continent and require much travel, so when you finally receive this grand reward in the end, you definitely appreciate it.
Even though I'm a casual gamer, I wouldn't like it if such a great item were so easy to obtain. I like the feeling of having to work very hard in the time I spend to acquire such awesome rewards. Some players will go to gruelling lengths to obtain objects they desire, and I don't ever plan to try and compare myself to them, nor do I have the time to try and compete.
In the end, I have to accept the fact that some things are out of my reach unless I plan to devote more time and effort to the game. I certainly don't want to be handed these things because my playstyle is undeserving.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
I always recall how bad I felt in EQ2 with my shabby average armor, and all the people in purple uber amor standing around, and I dont like to feel not 2nd best but 10th best only. Generally I would like to see any "inspect" function generally deactivated.
A friend of mine who playes a lot of WOW has also reported me a similar gripe. He enjoys mostly PVP, and in the old WOW days it was easy to just find people for a PVP arena, go in and the best team won. Now with the expansion there is so much hard to get raid gear which gives hardcore players so much advantage, when a normal player enters the arena you can just forget it. Now while VG is not much into PVP, the idea the gap becomes so far really sounds terrible to me. I really would not like to see such a WOW-ization of VG. Some gap is ok but when ppl feel declassed by exorbitant rewards too many will just feel unwelcome. Maybe its unavoidable after a game is many years old and has dozens of expansions, but a game without any expansion should not already widen the player gap.
Thats all why I enjoyed CoH SO MUCH, and would have played it for the rest of my live, if I werent just fed up with every place being either offices or warehouses. There were NO items at all, no gear and thus no greed, no comparision who "has the biggest one", no grief, just plain pure fun. Maybe you all try it out and learn how relaxing the lack of the greed-spiral can be.
While I do understand your point(s) I don't agree. My time is also quite limited - in about 2 weeks I've been playing my main for a full year and just recently got him to level 45. My armor and weapons is a mix of quest rewards, crafted stuff and world drops. I would say the avg. item level is somewhere around 35, and not a single part matches the color the other.
I look like a clown.
The thing is that I don't care. I don't play to show off and I don't care about players who do. If I'm kicked from a group because my gear sucks (haven't experienced that) even before we get going I don't think I would have enjoyed their company anyway.
It might take me a year to get a flying mount depending on how they decide to put it in game, but eventually I will most likely have it - and possibly feel a bit proud.
Giving players easy access to the cool stuff only creates a demand for new even cooler stuff.
No they should not. I dont think people should get more because the have more time. I pay as much as they, and I, having less time free than say a student, sacrifice relatively MORE than one with much spare time. What we should value is not the time, but the relative, personal engagement ppl put into a game. We can only expect ppl to give their personal best. It may be ok to give ppl with more time something more, but I dont feel we serve our games well by widening the gap too far.
I can understand your frustration Elikal. I also wish I had more free time to spend gaming. I would like to be an involved participant on APW raids, but I simply don't have the time. It is true that you pay the same amount as everyone else, and you in return are granted the same access that everyone else gets. If you choose to devote your free time to family, friends, working, and studying (and I think that's a wise decision), accept that people who spend more time and effort at the game are going to receive rewards that you will not.
Do you think that people who spend all day playing games should get a degree just becuase they paid tuition? Of course not. The cost only provides opportunity. What you do with that oppurtunity determines your rewards.
EDIT: Bah, should have read through the rest of the thread. Agree with Daffid011.
Case closed.
You log in once every week for five minutes, and *BOOM* you get the same result of a guy that has time to play all day and every day of the week ?
And you dont pay for the results you get in game. You pay for the upkeep of the game. What you're doing ingame is totally your own problem.