Who cares if it is or isn't "Next Gen"? No one even has a good definition of what "Next Gen" is, so it's like arguing that steak is better than ice cream I have to agree with you there. Everyone seems to have the need to label everything. I really couldnt care less what generation the game is. The only label I care about is if I consider it good. But just for the record AoC is not innovative for thinking up brand new ideas. It's innovative for combining a whole bunch of great ideas from other games. AoC has some striking similarities to WoW and Shadowbane, yet WoW and Shadowbane are completely different games. It's all about taking the positives out of other games, makeing them even better, then combining them into one game. AoC doesn't have many completely unique ideas, but they aren't copying the ideas exactly from other games. They are adding their own spin. So basically they are doing exactly what Blizzard did with WoW. This is the problem with MMORPG's these days. I am not saying the game is a clone of WoW but the concept of how to develop it sure is. I am getting sick of old ideas that are really just slightly altered and shined up to look pretty while basically being the same old rehashed idea. When will someone create something new and original? How many more fantasy based linear games does the genre need? Making the same type of game but adding a few new things hardly seems worth the time. All these new games seem like they should be expansions to another game rather than a stand alone product. Im not bashing AOC. It seems like it is going to be pretty cool for what it is. In the end though it is just another one of many fantasy MMO's out there with more being created every year. You have to wonder if this genre is going to crash and burn at some point as people keep wanting something new and keep getting more of the same old thing with "new and improved" features and graphics
You are definitely zoning when you go from zone to zone, its just spread out more. Like going from Loch Modan to the Badlands.... that huge stretch of *nothing*. Not just mobs, but NOTHING. No trees, bushes, *anything*. There's a reason for that. You're going from one are to the next. Admittedly, WoW isn't hard on a video card, and the vast majority of textures are reused over and over again so the loading work is done fast (all the dwarves are the same, the wolves the same, etc.)
If a loading screen doesn't pop up, then as far as I'm concerned, it's not zoning.
Zoning ain't the problem - the most next-gen MMORPG out there, EVE online is zoned as hell - each star system is an instance. It is that the very basic premise "grind xp for levels and then do end game until you're bored stiff" is dated. There is no true "end-game" in EVE or Guild Wars. There is just constantly evolving gameplay - there is no final goal you can achieve so you can say you've "beat the game". The very concept of "beating the game" is a single-player game thing and is just plain silly in MMOPRGs (the pure misery WoW has become with their "end-game" is a case in point).
Imo a true MMORPG should begin at the end-game. If I buy AoC to do guild warfare with keeps and stuff then I should be able to do it from the minute I first boot up and not "work" for 50 levels until I get there. The second concern is leveling - here you've got a social game and level and gear differences place arbitrary barriers between players. I'm not saying that there should be no character progression but it should be lateral and not linear. GW does this very well.. you can achieve "max" level in less than two days and then it's skill collecting time. A total noob can go against or play with a veteran. Ofc the old dog will cream the noob but the point is that they all exist within the same "power bracket" and can meaningfully communicate within the game.
Originally posted by Daedalus732 Originally posted by throckmorton
But just for the record AoC is not innovative for thinking up brand new ideas. It's innovative for combining a whole bunch of great ideas from other games.
I'm at a loss to see what those "great ideas" are aside from your typical fantasy MMO layout. It looks more like to me that they are actually taking several steps backwards in their implementation of features. Crafting being a big example. Not to mention that it seems like every week we get to hear about more features that will not make the game's launch. That's not too uplifting in my opinion. First off I am glad crafting isn't about grinding items, but about questing- and I don't care if you need to be at a forge or not to create items. It's all less time doing boring things, and more time doing interesting things to me.
As far as new twists AoC brings to the genre:
PvE cities with NPC seiging. PvP cities with Guild vs Guild warfare, with it's own twist different from Shadowbane. Mounted combat where you have to time your attacks and get bonuses for going faster. New combat system. Interactive NPC dialouge. Formation combat with collision detection.
There's a lot on each of these subjects, but I'm not going to go too in depth here. I'll let you do your own research.
They may not entirely be new concepts, but they do have interesting twists with new ideas to old concepts.
Originally posted by GreenHell Originally posted by throckmorton So basically they are doing exactly what Blizzard did with WoW. This is the problem with MMORPG's these days. I am not saying the game is a clone of WoW but the concept of how to develop it sure is. I am getting sick of old ideas that are really just slightly altered and shined up to look pretty while basically being the same old rehashed idea. When will someone create something new and original? How many more fantasy based linear games does the genre need? Making the same type of game but adding a few new things hardly seems worth the time. All these new games seem like they should be expansions to another game rather than a stand alone product. Im not bashing AOC. It seems like it is going to be pretty cool for what it is. In the end though it is just another one of many fantasy MMO's out there with more being created every year. You have to wonder if this genre is going to crash and burn at some point as people keep wanting something new and keep getting more of the same old thing with "new and improved" features and graphics
Yes I mostly agree with you here. I wish AoC rid itself of the long time it takes to fully level, which they have adopted from WoW. Yes, I know WoW is much shorter than other MMOs, but it's still rediculously long and boring if you don't enjoy the quests. Hopefully the questing in AoC is decent so it's actually fun.
Comments
Not worth pandering to this obvious flame bait.
Formations are a really new thing. I hope somebody will actually implement them one day.
If a loading screen doesn't pop up, then as far as I'm concerned, it's not zoning.
Zoning ain't the problem - the most next-gen MMORPG out there, EVE online is zoned as hell - each star system is an instance. It is that the very basic premise "grind xp for levels and then do end game until you're bored stiff" is dated. There is no true "end-game" in EVE or Guild Wars. There is just constantly evolving gameplay - there is no final goal you can achieve so you can say you've "beat the game". The very concept of "beating the game" is a single-player game thing and is just plain silly in MMOPRGs (the pure misery WoW has become with their "end-game" is a case in point).
Imo a true MMORPG should begin at the end-game. If I buy AoC to do guild warfare with keeps and stuff then I should be able to do it from the minute I first boot up and not "work" for 50 levels until I get there. The second concern is leveling - here you've got a social game and level and gear differences place arbitrary barriers between players. I'm not saying that there should be no character progression but it should be lateral and not linear. GW does this very well.. you can achieve "max" level in less than two days and then it's skill collecting time. A total noob can go against or play with a veteran. Ofc the old dog will cream the noob but the point is that they all exist within the same "power bracket" and can meaningfully communicate within the game.
Not to mention that it seems like every week we get to hear about more features that will not make the game's launch. That's not too uplifting in my opinion.
First off I am glad crafting isn't about grinding items, but about questing- and I don't care if you need to be at a forge or not to create items. It's all less time doing boring things, and more time doing interesting things to me.
As far as new twists AoC brings to the genre:
PvE cities with NPC seiging.
PvP cities with Guild vs Guild warfare, with it's own twist different from Shadowbane.
Mounted combat where you have to time your attacks and get bonuses for going faster.
New combat system.
Interactive NPC dialouge.
Formation combat with collision detection.
There's a lot on each of these subjects, but I'm not going to go too in depth here. I'll let you do your own research.
They may not entirely be new concepts, but they do have interesting twists with new ideas to old concepts.
Yes I mostly agree with you here. I wish AoC rid itself of the long time it takes to fully level, which they have adopted from WoW. Yes, I know WoW is much shorter than other MMOs, but it's still rediculously long and boring if you don't enjoy the quests. Hopefully the questing in AoC is decent so it's actually fun.