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Why do 88% of african American Voters, vote Democrat?

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Comments

  • Unknown

     

    Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
    Originally posted by Nasica


     You have completly changed your argument in the space of one page.
     You started off with "They are stealing my property"

    Now your argument is that its alright that they steal your property, they just arnt spending it correctly.
    So which is it? your argument is very vague.

     

    Dont think you understand the point im trying to make.  Its about welfare and that my money shoulnt go into another person pocket just becuase the government says they need help.  Education and Welfare are two diffrent issues.  Education is what defines someone, doesnt matter who their parents are.  With education they can suceed, it is the gate way to liberation.  Knowlege gives rise to a belief in tolerance.  The Federal Government shoul not be involved in Welfare or Education.   Would like to see government out of welfare all together.  The point is, people will always be taxes.  Their is some level of taxation that is needed and some stuff that needs to be run.  But to tax someone just to give the money to someone else isnt needed nore does it work.

    The points im making in this debate may seem vague to you because you may be looking at it from a more closed minded view.  Rather then trying to get all the facts.  This is a debate sir, im puting out my views on it and so far i havent gotten any one to actually debate them with me.  Debate me on the issues and why they do/dont work and should/shouln't continue to do them.


    Red - So that little spot on your taxes that say Social Security (yes I know the system is messed up, but we are talking principles here), you do not believe any of your money that you know you would not offer them otherwise should go towards helping the elderly get something towards their bills?  That should stay your money right, why help those greed money grubbing grandparents.  They are taking advantage of the system right, you know they could still be working a regular job at 73 years old.

     

    Yellow - If you truely believe that and yet you are spouting of your intollerance's to those people who need welfare among others (basically whomever is taking your money)...what does that make you?  You have not come off looking very tollerant anywhere in this thread, so I can only directly conclude that you are not as knowledgable as you need to be.

     

    How SS is setup its a bad idea.  The problem isnt SS, people pay into it and most get a return on some of their money.  But SS is a bad idea, why force someone to pay into a failed retirment account?  People are smart enough to save their own money, instead the government has to force them to pay into their made account.  But the problem with SS is the inflation tax and the government takes money out of the account and never pays it back.  Privitize it, save into a private retirment account.

    How am i intollerance?  Becuase i want people to be responsible for themselfs and take responsibilties for their own lives..  How do i not come off tollerant?  What makes youre views tollerant and why?  So far youre intollerant to be open to hearing both sides.

     

    Edit-

    The man who wrote that "Knowlege gives rise to a belief in tollernace" is John Locke.  So is he intollerant since he believes that we have a right to put property, to do with it what we want?

  • Unknown

    Originally posted by lomiller

    Originally posted by Muirin

    Originally posted by lomiller

    Originally posted by Muirin




    You said it not me.  Im for lower taxes, and less money spent on social programs.  Their should be an effort to slowley fase out some programs.  SS, Welfare, Medicare, stuff like that.  You cant just end programs right away, people have become deponded on the government to live.  So instead of just leaving all the people deponded fase it out and  reduce taxes.  Get people to stop relying of the government and take personal responsibilities for their own lifes.  Again, care to debate with me or have any more questions?

     

    So you do think the US economy should be more like that of Mexico?  You realize the Mexican economy isn’t working out so well right?  

     I never said we should use the type of system Mexico uses.  You just assumed that what i was saying.  And that isnt what im saying at all, im not talking about the diffrent types of economy, how did you even get to that point?

     

    I’ve pointed out things that you are on record as supporting and are rampant in the Mexican economy. You have yet to tell us why the results of those policies would be any different in the US.  

    You have yet to point out anything.  Never even menoined why type of economy Mexico uses and why it doesnt work.  The system could work, but maybe its implicated wrong.  Tell me why their economy isn't working so great and then we can have a deabte on it. 

    http://www.bajaquest.com/faq/economy.htm 

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
     
    You have yet to point out anything.  Never even menoined why type of economy Mexico uses and why it doesnt work.  The system could work, but maybe its implicated wrong.  Tell me why their economy isn't working so great and then we can have a deabte on it. 
    http://www.bajaquest.com/faq/economy.htm 

     

    The biggest problem in the Mexican economy is the large division between rich and poor. Monopolies are also an issue but this is really just a subset of the above problem.

     

    Very low taxation rates (something like 18% compared to 32% in the US) mean there is little or no money for infrastructure spending and no redistribution of wealth.  There are nearly 25-30 million millionaires in Mexico (in US$) out of a population of 100 million, but the rest of the country lives in abject poverty, because they feel “it’s their money and they don’t want any taxation to help anyone else”.  This means there is no monetary flow into the lower earnings segments and therefore no purchasing power and no economic growth.  
  • ThrakkThrakk Member Posts: 1,226

    Your right the graph does not show inflation.  But the problem with a graph that shows inflation is the method of caculating it has changed since 20 years ago.  So unless their using the old system, or recaculating the inflation from older years then it will give you an incorect answer on inflation. 

     You don’t think that graph represents anything at all. It simply is incorrect? You have to throw out all the data because of this? You can’t just throw out data because it is hard to work with. There aren’t just black and white areas. There are significance levels that statisticians consider in every single conclusion they make.  How much does the change in the definition of inflation rate (variable X2) effect the Y variable. How much does the original X variable contribute to change in the Y variable? How much if you include both variables à Y0 = B0 + B1X1 + B2X2. How correlated is the graph? How significant is the conclusions people draw from the graph? It simply can’t be 0% significant. I agree that graphs can be misleading but if you check the source and use your instincts than you can probably guess just how different the graph would be if the method of calculating inflation was accounted for. This is hard to explain, do you at least get where I’m coming from.

    Sir, dont make up youre own quotes.  I never said that.  What does it really mean to be American then sir?  The founding fathers were influenced alot by the philosopy of John Locke.  One of his big views was that government has 3 purposes and only thoes 3.  They are that the governmens sole responsibility if the protection of Life, Liberty, and Property, nothing else.  He also said that "You have a right to youre property and the right to do with it what you choice."   How am i uncaring?  You dont even know me, yet you judge me.  On what princibles do you judge me on sir?  How would America not exist if we dint have SS, Welfare, or medicare? [I didn’t say that] America did great before these programs came about.

    [I do think you need to get with the modern age sir. The past is old as dirt. Ideas are the future - no matter how nicely past ideas were at the time, they can totally be updated for broader considerations.

    Of course you have a right to do with your property as you choose… but you also can’t cop out on paying taxes. It is still your money and you can vote on where your tax dollars are going. If you don’t want to spend extra nickels on top of what you are paying now for health care or better salaries for teachers than so be it; vote republican. I told you why I thought you were uncaring -- I think helping others is better than standing up for that principle. Remember, paying tax is to help America as a whole, is a principle too.

    How do you define a patriot sir? If youre tired of hatred then look at people for individuals and judge them on their character.  Not on their race, religion, gender, or class but for their character. The big government gets the more problems we have.  Simply put, government  makes more problems then they fix.

    I think the problem with most people in here is that our arguments don’t consider everything... often people jump to the point …i.e. their opinion. No matter how you write it, every time I read an argument on mmorpg.com, I only see part of the whole story. There is much more to it… to everyone’s arguments.

    Specializing in one detail never does any good.

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812

    Originally posted by Muirin


     
    Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
    Originally posted by Nasica


     You have completly changed your argument in the space of one page.
     You started off with "They are stealing my property"

    Now your argument is that its alright that they steal your property, they just arnt spending it correctly.
    So which is it? your argument is very vague.

     

    Dont think you understand the point im trying to make.  Its about welfare and that my money shoulnt go into another person pocket just becuase the government says they need help.  Education and Welfare are two diffrent issues.  Education is what defines someone, doesnt matter who their parents are.  With education they can suceed, it is the gate way to liberation.  Knowlege gives rise to a belief in tolerance.  The Federal Government shoul not be involved in Welfare or Education.   Would like to see government out of welfare all together.  The point is, people will always be taxes.  Their is some level of taxation that is needed and some stuff that needs to be run.  But to tax someone just to give the money to someone else isnt needed nore does it work.

    The points im making in this debate may seem vague to you because you may be looking at it from a more closed minded view.  Rather then trying to get all the facts.  This is a debate sir, im puting out my views on it and so far i havent gotten any one to actually debate them with me.  Debate me on the issues and why they do/dont work and should/shouln't continue to do them.


    Red - So that little spot on your taxes that say Social Security (yes I know the system is messed up, but we are talking principles here), you do not believe any of your money that you know you would not offer them otherwise should go towards helping the elderly get something towards their bills?  That should stay your money right, why help those greed money grubbing grandparents.  They are taking advantage of the system right, you know they could still be working a regular job at 73 years old.

     

    Yellow - If you truely believe that and yet you are spouting of your intollerance's to those people who need welfare among others (basically whomever is taking your money)...what does that make you?  You have not come off looking very tollerant anywhere in this thread, so I can only directly conclude that you are not as knowledgable as you need to be.

     

    How SS is setup its a bad idea.  The problem isnt SS, people pay into it and most get a return on some of their money.  But SS is a bad idea, why force someone to pay into a failed retirment account?  People are smart enough to save their own money, instead the government has to force them to pay into their made account.  But the problem with SS is the inflation tax and the government takes money out of the account and never pays it back.  Privitize it, save into a private retirment account.

    How am i intollerance?  Becuase i want people to be responsible for themselfs and take responsibilties for their own lives..  How do i not come off tollerant?  What makes youre views tollerant and why?  So far youre intollerant to be open to hearing both sides.

    Why would you trust your retirement to a private account handled by a private company?  I am sure the Enron's and Tyco's of the world  would love for that to be the case.   Getting a chance to play with other people's money.  At least with the government I know I am going to get something back...when you are robbed blind, that is completely different.

    You want people to be responsible for them selves and be responsible for their own lives, your info states that you are 18 and did you not say that you were earning $8.10/hr at Wendy's?  Are you living at home with your parent(s)?  Or is the $324/wk you are earning if you get 40 hrs suffiecent for you to pay for your own place and your own bills?  You are technically and adult now so are you taking responsibility for your own life or you still expecting help from your parent(s) and possibily still going to school.  How would life be different without that help?  I don't claim to know you or your family situation, but you see life could be rough without assistance.

    Tollerance is understanding that sometimes people need help and society needs to be there to assist.  The whole "It takes a villiage..." idea comes to mind.  That is why I consider my views tollerant and yours are not.  Your ideals fit more in line with the likes of Mr. Scroog...My money, mine, mine, mine.  And I have heard your arguement/side and I have counter with my own, that does not make me intollerant.

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • Unknown

    Originally posted by lomiller

    Originally posted by Muirin


     
     
    You have yet to point out anything.  Never even menoined why type of economy Mexico uses and why it doesnt work.  The system could work, but maybe its implicated wrong.  Tell me why their economy isn't working so great and then we can have a deabte on it. 
    http://www.bajaquest.com/faq/economy.htm 

     

    The biggest problem in the Mexican economy is the large division between rich and poor. Monopolies are also an issue but this is really just a subset of the above problem.

     

    Very low taxation rates (something like 18% compared to 32% in the US) mean there is little or no money for infrastructure spending and no redistribution of wealth.  There are nearly 25-30 million millionaires in Mexico (in US$) out of a population of 100 million, but the rest of the country lives in abject poverty, because they feel “it’s their money and they don’t want any taxation to help anyone else”.  This means there is no monetary flow into the lower earnings segments and therefore no purchasing power and no economic growth.  

     

    Problems always arise when their is a Monolopy, need some government involvement in the economy.  That is why a true free market doesnt work.  As long as you give the middle class family in America money they will spend it.  So i dont see them stop spending unless something bad happens in the econonmy.  Or their power to buy stuff is limited.  But economy is a confusing subject.  Wish they would teach it at school.

  • Unknown

    Originally posted by Thrakk


    Your right the graph does not show inflation.  But the problem with a graph that shows inflation is the method of caculating it has changed since 20 years ago.  So unless their using the old system, or recaculating the inflation from older years then it will give you an incorect answer on inflation. 
     You don’t think that graph represents anything at all. It simply is incorrect? You have to throw out all the data because of this? You can’t just throw out data because it is hard to work with. There aren’t just black and white areas. There are significance levels that statisticians consider in every single conclusion they make.  How much does the change in the definition of inflation rate (variable X2) effect the Y variable. How much does the original X variable contribute to change in the Y variable? How much if you include both variables à Y0 = B0 + B1X1 + B2X2. How correlated is the graph? How significant is the conclusions people draw from the graph? It simply can’t be 0% significant. I agree that graphs can be misleading but if you check the source and use your instincts than you can probably guess just how different the graph would be if the method of calculating inflation was accounted for. This is hard to explain, do you at least get where I’m coming from.
    Sir, dont make up youre own quotes.  I never said that.  What does it really mean to be American then sir?  The founding fathers were influenced alot by the philosopy of John Locke.  One of his big views was that government has 3 purposes and only thoes 3.  They are that the governmens sole responsibility if the protection of Life, Liberty, and Property, nothing else.  He also said that "You have a right to youre property and the right to do with it what you choice."   How am i uncaring?  You dont even know me, yet you judge me.  On what princibles do you judge me on sir?  How would America not exist if we dint have SS, Welfare, or medicare? [I didn’t say that] America did great before these programs came about.
    [I do think you need to get with the modern age sir. The past is old as dirt. Ideas are the future - no matter how nicely past ideas were at the time, they can totally be updated for broader considerations.
    Of course you have a right to do with your property as you choose… but you also can’t cop out on paying taxes. It is still your money and you can vote on where your tax dollars are going. If you don’t want to spend extra nickels on top of what you are paying now for health care or better salaries for teachers than so be it; vote republican. I told you why I thought you were uncaring -- I think helping others is better than standing up for that principle. Remember, paying tax is to help America as a whole, is a principle too.
    How do you define a patriot sir? If youre tired of hatred then look at people for individuals and judge them on their character.  Not on their race, religion, gender, or class but for their character. The big government gets the more problems we have.  Simply put, government  makes more problems then they fix.
    I think the problem with most people in here is that our arguments don’t consider everything... often people jump to the point …i.e. their opinion. No matter how you write it, every time I read an argument on mmorpg.com, I only see part of the whole story. There is much more to it… to everyone’s arguments.
    Specializing in one detail never does any good.

    The graph is correct in the national debt increase.  But without another line showing inflation it is misleading.  I see were youre coming from.

     

    History can teach lessons for the future, just becuase it old doesnt mean it doesnt work.  taxes are needed for stuff like schools, police, firefighters instutions like that.  But were alot of tax pays dollars goes is pointless.  To much goes to the federal government.  Cant expect to get youre money back if you send it to the federal government and then try to get to back from them.  You will only get a small % of it.

     

     

    People do jump to one side and usually on forums only one side is ever explaned.  You have youre side and im on mine.  Im trying to debate with you guys to show youre side, since i dont agree with it i cant represent it.  So that is were you come in.

  • Unknown

     

    Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
    Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
    Originally posted by Nasica


     You have completly changed your argument in the space of one page.
     You started off with "They are stealing my property"

    Now your argument is that its alright that they steal your property, they just arnt spending it correctly.
    So which is it? your argument is very vague.

     

    Dont think you understand the point im trying to make.  Its about welfare and that my money shoulnt go into another person pocket just becuase the government says they need help.  Education and Welfare are two diffrent issues.  Education is what defines someone, doesnt matter who their parents are.  With education they can suceed, it is the gate way to liberation.  Knowlege gives rise to a belief in tolerance.  The Federal Government shoul not be involved in Welfare or Education.   Would like to see government out of welfare all together.  The point is, people will always be taxes.  Their is some level of taxation that is needed and some stuff that needs to be run.  But to tax someone just to give the money to someone else isnt needed nore does it work.

    The points im making in this debate may seem vague to you because you may be looking at it from a more closed minded view.  Rather then trying to get all the facts.  This is a debate sir, im puting out my views on it and so far i havent gotten any one to actually debate them with me.  Debate me on the issues and why they do/dont work and should/shouln't continue to do them.


    Red - So that little spot on your taxes that say Social Security (yes I know the system is messed up, but we are talking principles here), you do not believe any of your money that you know you would not offer them otherwise should go towards helping the elderly get something towards their bills?  That should stay your money right, why help those greed money grubbing grandparents.  They are taking advantage of the system right, you know they could still be working a regular job at 73 years old.

     

    Yellow - If you truely believe that and yet you are spouting of your intollerance's to those people who need welfare among others (basically whomever is taking your money)...what does that make you?  You have not come off looking very tollerant anywhere in this thread, so I can only directly conclude that you are not as knowledgable as you need to be.

     

    How SS is setup its a bad idea.  The problem isnt SS, people pay into it and most get a return on some of their money.  But SS is a bad idea, why force someone to pay into a failed retirment account?  People are smart enough to save their own money, instead the government has to force them to pay into their made account.  But the problem with SS is the inflation tax and the government takes money out of the account and never pays it back.  Privitize it, save into a private retirment account.

    How am i intollerance?  Becuase i want people to be responsible for themselfs and take responsibilties for their own lives..  How do i not come off tollerant?  What makes youre views tollerant and why?  So far youre intollerant to be open to hearing both sides.

    Why would you trust your retirement to a private account handled by a private company?  I am sure the Enron's and Tyco's of the world  would love for that to be the case.   Getting a chance to play with other people's money.  At least with the government I know I am going to get something back...when you are robbed blind, that is completely different.

     

    You want people to be responsible for them selves and be responsible for their own lives, your info states that you are 18 and did you not say that you were earning $8.10/hr at Wendy's?  Are you living at home with your parent(s)?  Or is the $324/wk you are earning if you get 40 hrs suffiecent for you to pay for your own place and your own bills?  You are technically and adult now so are you taking responsibility for your own life or you still expecting help from your parent(s) and possibily still going to school.  How would life be different without that help?  I don't claim to know you or your family situation, but you see life could be rough without assistance.

    Tollerance is understanding that sometimes people need help and society needs to be there to assist.  The whole "It takes a villiage..." idea comes to mind.  That is why I consider my views tollerant and yours are not.  Your ideals fit more in line with the likes of Mr. Scroog...My money, mine, mine, mine.  And I have heard your arguement/side and I have counter with my own, that does not make me intollerant.

     

    A private company that is built around helping people design a retirment plan for them.  Like AARP.  Their are company out their to help you with seting up a plan for retirment.  Youre saying you dont trust private companys retirment accounts.  Do you trust the government to do the job?  The government takes money out of the SS funds and has yet to replace it, that is why SS is in trouble.  If a private company did that they would be charged with a felony.

    I do live at home, last year of high school.  I payed for my own car, insurnace, gas, food, clothing, and anything i need for school.  So becuase i still live at home i have no personal responsibilty?

    Ok so if people need help then someone will always be their to help.  Charaties or Churches are great examples of how a community helps.  "It takes a village..."  A village is a community, not the federal government.  Im Mr. Scroog becuase i dont like paying money into a failed policy that doesnt work.  If people are truley in need of help then the community will always be their to help them.  Rather it's a church helping or people donating to a private chartie.  They are more effecient and more helpful then the federal government at helping people becuase they help the ones who are truley in need.  If they do a bad job people stop giving money to the charties and churches.  If the government screws up, we still have to pay into it and it takes forever to change something postivley.

  • Unknown

    Originally posted by Nasica


     
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
    Originally posted by Nasica


     
    Originally posted by Muirin


     
     
    Originally posted by Thrakk


    I'm pretty sure you underestimate the helpfulness of government spending on health care and education. Throwing money at it can fix things. You just don't have faith in people spending your nickels properly.
    Democrats are more closely linked to the liberals than republicans. Liberals favor decentralization of government more than anyone.
    Money And School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

     

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html 

    Its a long article, but it shows that just throwing money at education doesnt work.  Or you can watch the 40 min video below.  Part about the Kansas City schools starts around 8:10

     

    While this video is a little biast, alot of it is true.  Money is needed in education, but with how it is setup right now throwing money at it DOESNT WORK!   Any one able to tell how old the video is?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

     

    Need to do alot of research on Healthcare, but Government Health Care isnt a sollution.  Medicare allready costs over $9 trillion a year.

     

    Democrats are Liberals.  While liberals may  want to spread the government out, they are for big government.  I'm for small government.  Doesnt matter if its sprad out.  Big government makes more problems then they solve.


    You have completly changed your argument in the space of one page.

     

    You started off with "They are stealing my property"

    Now your argument is that its alright that they steal your property, they just arnt spending it correctly.

    So which is it? your argument is very vague.

     

    Dont think you understand the point im trying to make.  Its about welfare and that my money shoulnt go into another person pocket just becuase the government says they need help.  Education and Welfare are two diffrent issues.  Education is what defines someone, doesnt matter who their parents are.  With education they can suceed, it is the gate way to liberation.  Knowlege gives rise to a belief in tolerance.  The Federal Government shoul not be involved in Welfare or Education.   Would like to see government out of welfare all together.  The point is, people will always be taxes.  Their is some level of taxation that is needed and some stuff that needs to be run.  But to tax someone just to give the money to someone else isnt needed nore does it work.

    The points im making in this debate may seem vague to you because you may be looking at it from a more closed minded view.  Rather then trying to get all the facts.  This is a debate sir, im puting out my views on it and so far i havent gotten any one to actually debate them with me.  Debate me on the issues and why they do/dont work and should/shouln't continue to do them.

     

    I did argue your points and bring my own views forward, i even explained why, at one stage, i didnt argue your points.

    But you decided to focus on half a dozen words of the hundreds i wrote, and not one of those had anything to do with your argument. You also have been complaining about taxes and their illegality, so excuse me if i did not understand your views on paying taxes for the things you support.

    I actually have experience with the welfare system(both sides) so i know the FACTS better than most, and i am quite happy to debate the virtures of welfare. I could tell you some stories that would make a fully grown man cry from my time working for Centrelink, conversely i could tell you stories that would make you cringe, fortunatly the former far out-wieghed the latter.

    Now if you would like an actual debate on the welfare system, please go back to my post (#54) and focus on the actual issues i raised, not the reason why i didnt raise them earlier.

    I honestly loo forward to your debate, you do bring interesting points to the table.

    So you have personl experince with this issue (Diffrent country).  In youre country does the government do a good job at helping thoes who really need help or does it also support alot of lazy people who are unwilling to work hard?  Were i live alot of people are on welfare and alot of them are lazy, an alcoholic, or on drugs.  So the Federal System for welfare sucks.  A chartie or church welfare program will work great.  It helps thoes who are most in need and the ones who actually need help.  Doesnt help the lazy.  Also it helps out in youre community and area (City and state) the most.  Federal Government is very wasteful and inefficient in the US and doesnt get alot done for how much money they spend.  A charity or church welfare system will require soley on the help of the people.  In 2005 Americans gave 250 billion to charties.  Also in my eyes the government has no right to redistrubite wealth among the people.  If someone works harder let them keep their work, if their lazy let them keep their failur.  But dont reward anyone for failur or sucess, becasue the reward is in the sucess.

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812
    Originally posted by Muirin


      A private company that is built around helping people design a retirment plan for them.  Like AARP.  Their are company out their to help you with seting up a plan for retirment.  Youre saying you dont trust private companys retirment accounts. Correct I don't.  Do you trust the government to do the job? Yes I trust that I will get something back, how much, not much and in fact it will probably be completely broken down by the time both of us are ready to retire.  The government takes money out of the SS funds and has yet to replace it, that is why SS is in trouble.  Like I said I would rather know I am getting robbed and getting something back for it that to be robbed blind by a corporation.   If a private company did that they would be charged with a felony.
    I do live at home, last year of high school.  I payed for my own car, insurnace, gas, food, clothing, and anything i need for school.  So becuase i still live at home i have no personal responsibilty?  There are varying degrees of responsibility, you are fortunate to have a room to live under while you go to school, not everyone does.  I can applaud that you paid for a lot of your things...a lot more than I ever did, but like I said I really was not trying to make it to personal, just show that not everyone has the same chances as you do.
    Ok so if people need help then someone will always be their to help.  Charaties or Churches are great examples of how a community helps.  "It takes a village..."  A village is a community, not the federal government.  Churches are businesses just like any corporation and I trust them about the same or a little less actually.  At least corporations have stock holders to report to, churches can afford to keep god around as long as people keep putting money in the little basket.  Sure they can help support a local family or two but nothing on par with the actual societal need.  Im Mr. Scroog becuase i dont like paying money into a failed policy that doesnt work.  If people are truley in need of help then the community will always be their to help them.  You are pretty far off the mark on this, tell the homeless here in LA.  Where is the reach out?  Rather it's a church helping or people donating to a private chartie.  They are more effecient and more helpful then the federal government at helping people becuase they help the ones who are truley in need.  Yes they may be more efficient $ for $ but there is less reach and accessiblity so my vote still goes for the government, I would rather help a lot of people in need a little bit (possible giving them the time to set their feet and getting going) than a few people a lot(giving them a complete free ride).  If they do a bad job people stop giving money to the charties and churches.  If the government screws up, we still have to pay into it and it takes forever to change something postivley.

     

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • Unknown

    Originally posted by 8hammer8

    Originally posted by Muirin


      A private company that is built around helping people design a retirment plan for them.  Like AARP.  Their are company out their to help you with seting up a plan for retirment.  Youre saying you dont trust private companys retirment accounts. Correct I don't.  Do you trust the government to do the job? Yes I trust that I will get something back, how much, not much and in fact it will probably be completely broken down by the time both of us are ready to retire.  The government takes money out of the SS funds and has yet to replace it, that is why SS is in trouble.  Like I said I would rather know I am getting robbed and getting something back for it that to be robbed blind by a corporation.   If a private company did that they would be charged with a felony.
    I do live at home, last year of high school.  I payed for my own car, insurnace, gas, food, clothing, and anything i need for school.  So becuase i still live at home i have no personal responsibilty?  There are varying degrees of responsibility, you are fortunate to have a room to live under while you go to school, not everyone does.  I can applaud that you paid for a lot of your things...a lot more than I ever did, but like I said I really was not trying to make it to personal, just show that not everyone has the same chances as you do.
    Ok so if people need help then someone will always be their to help.  Charaties or Churches are great examples of how a community helps.  "It takes a village..."  A village is a community, not the federal government.  Churches are businesses just like any corporation and I trust them about the same or a little less actually.  At least corporations have stock holders to report to, churches can afford to keep god around as long as people keep putting money in the little basket.  Sure they can help support a local family or two but nothing on par with the actual societal need.  Im Mr. Scroog becuase i dont like paying money into a failed policy that doesnt work.  If people are truley in need of help then the community will always be their to help them.  You are pretty far off the mark on this, tell the homeless here in LA.  Where is the reach out?  Rather it's a church helping or people donating to a private chartie.  They are more effecient and more helpful then the federal government at helping people becuase they help the ones who are truley in need.  Yes they may be more efficient $ for $ but there is less reach and accessiblity so my vote still goes for the government, I would rather help a lot of people in need a little bit (possible giving them the time to set their feet and getting going) than a few people a lot(giving them a complete free ride).  If they do a bad job people stop giving money to the charties and churches.  If the government screws up, we still have to pay into it and it takes forever to change something postivley.

     

    Well the problem with SS is, their will be none by the time we can retire.  So we pay into something and get nothing in return.  Its not my fault that SS failed, is the generators before mine who have failed my generation on SS.  Private company are held accountable by contracts and laws.  A private SS isnt like stocks or bonds.  Im talking about a company who helps you with saving money and helps you to know how much you will get out each month to live with how much you saved.  Unions do private retirments and it works great, no problems with it and you get out what you put into it.  Some people even make more with union retirments then they did when working.  So their are two types of private retirment programs, the savings kind (doesnt work to great with inflation) and a Union type retirment (like SS, but it actually works).

    Problem with alot of homeless people is most of them have mental problems, are alochics, or drug addicts.  So doesnt matter if you try to help them, alot of groups have tried and most of them fail.  Becuase a homeless person always have an option to get a job and work.  But while people give them free food or money most of them are fine were they are at.  LA may be a diffrent story, but im sure most of them have mental problems, are alochics, or drug addicts.

    If people werent forced to pay into programs like Welfare, maybe more people would donate to charties.  But since they are allready donating, im sure alot of people dont feel the need to donate any more.  Or at least not donate anymore domestically.  Any group ever do a study on this?  Would be instreing to see the results.

  • SoupstaneSoupstane Member Posts: 8

    I dont think any person should have the right to dictate where another persons earnings go. Isnt that teetering on the definition of slavery? Bless you folks who want to feed the hungry, I wish your money went where you want it to. The problem is that a government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. You refer to it as nickels, and to you my earnings may be just that, but to me it is a mortgage payment every month that I donate to causes that I dont agree with. This is money that could educate me or a family member that comes out of my earnings before I see it. My brother in law found that if he took a better job, he would lose welfare so he declined it. This system does not help people get on their feet, it helps them stay on their knees.  If you had a thousand bucks in your pocket wouldnt you rather give 250 of it to a person who needs it rather than give 600 to the government that gives 10 dollars to the person who needs it? If you think you should have the right to say where my earnings are spent would you be ok with me voting that your money goes into something that I want and you think is a waste?

  • M1sf1tM1sf1t Member UncommonPosts: 1,583

    Originally posted by frodus
    I never understood this at all, Republicans have appointed more minoritys to post than any other group.But their is a school of thought that it goes back the Plantation theory.Being that they feel vry loyal to their masters.Plus you would think that they would be happy that people like Thomas sole,Rice,and judge Thomas.

    and yet none of those people appeal to most African Americans. Yes the GOP have appointed plenty of African Americans that appeal to their views but not many who appeal to most African Americans. How hard is it to understand this idea?

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  • frodusfrodus Member Posts: 2,396

    In SC their is PSAs on the AM & FM Radio for people to sign up Food stamps,the reason for this is most all goverment program's must spend all the money they allocated each year or they loss that amount in next  years buget.The latest stats on the welfare program for the US is for every $ 3.00  that goes to Washinton only $1.00 makes it to the person in need. You realy have to ask yourself what did we do about the poor before the was a welfar program ? 4 trillion has be spend or redistributed over the life of the program,and it has not changed the stats of the poor in the US.But Nasica is right most are on the program for a short time.

    The Feds have the states hooked on the cash which means we get a goverment thats vary impersonal and unable to deal with a vary local issue.But we as a people americans have giving away more foods and money than any other nation that every been on the face off the earth.

    As far as SS is concerned if you are under 30 I think YOU will not get SS as we know it know...means testing SS is soon to be here....DA  B_TCH IS BROKE. Theirs a box some where with a BIG IOU IN IT.

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • sqwigginssqwiggins Member Posts: 286

    hey, remember Katrina and then what Bush said about black people?

    Anyway, do research on the cannidates not the party before you try to talk about how bad an entire party is.

  • AwakenedAwakened Member UncommonPosts: 595

    Most black people arent exactly well-to-do financially.   It's common philosophy in the US that rich people are republicans and poor people are democrats.  So by that philosophy, blacks, hispanics, etc., are mostly democrats.  I don't think it's really a racial issue as much as it is coincidence.

    It's really kind of funny though, democrats preach how they're pro-poor while they try to push taxes that attack the lower and middle classes the most.  Republicans' tax cut polocies minimal government spending policies do much more good for the poor and middle class.

    I won't restrain from saying a lot of blacks just want handouts though.  I've lived most my life in a mostly black community and there's no one in the world going to tell me that most of the citizens in ghettos and secttion 8 housing don't purposly do nothing for a living so they can get free money and food from Uncle Sam.  This is not a black thing, this is a neo-poor man's mindset thing.  We've pushed Welfare into our society and now Welfare is consuming the way of life for our lower income famalies.  We've taught them irresponsibility and promoted their dissent into financial dependency and goaless ambitions.  The fact that it's mostly blacks is just a tragedy for the people, but it has nothing to do with racism.

    What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

    interesting diversity of comments.

    what i also find interesting in this years democratic primaries is the racism going on in the democrat party. you can now clearly see the self interest of politicians and the myth of republicans are the only racist in the US.

    me personally, im too young and urbanized to be a racist. so lets not say I am one.

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • osirissosiriss Member Posts: 136

     

    Originally posted by Awakened


    Most black people arent exactly well-to-do financially.   It's common philosophy in the US that rich people are republicans and poor people are democrats.  So by that philosophy, blacks, hispanics, etc., are mostly democrats.  I don't think it's really a racial issue as much as it is coincidence.
    It's really kind of funny though, democrats preach how they're pro-poor while they try to push taxes that attack the lower and middle classes the most.  Republicans' tax cut polocies minimal government spending policies do much more good for the poor and middle class.
    I won't restrain from saying a lot of blacks just want handouts though.  I've lived most my life in a mostly black community and there's no one in the world going to tell me that most of the citizens in ghettos and secttion 8 housing don't purposly do nothing for a living so they can get free money and food from Uncle Sam.  This is not a black thing, this is a neo-poor man's mindset thing.  We've pushed Welfare into our society and now Welfare is consuming the way of life for our lower income famalies.  We've taught them irresponsibility and promoted their dissent into financial dependency and goaless ambitions.  The fact that it's mostly blacks is just a tragedy for the people, but it has nothing to do with racism.

    I  would like to hear your opinion on why you think blacks have no ambition and depend on the white man to give him handouts. The way you are talking gives me the impression that you think you are better than them. Most black people outside of Africa have forgotten there self worth and there gleaming history which has been distorted over the last 200-300 years.

     

    You put a liquor store on every street corner and constantly remind them of there second rate citizenship and when they do fail its hello prison for years. Who made you the teacher and what gives you the divine right .

    I could show you plenty of white people who lack ambition just as many other cultures have similar people. Lets be real here and not hide behind political mobo and just admit  you don't like blacks because that's how it seems to me.

     

    Like i said before..why to most european americans talk out of there ass

  • AwakenedAwakened Member UncommonPosts: 595

    Originally posted by osiriss


     
    Originally posted by Awakened


    Most black people arent exactly well-to-do financially.   It's common philosophy in the US that rich people are republicans and poor people are democrats.  So by that philosophy, blacks, hispanics, etc., are mostly democrats.  I don't think it's really a racial issue as much as it is coincidence.
    It's really kind of funny though, democrats preach how they're pro-poor while they try to push taxes that attack the lower and middle classes the most.  Republicans' tax cut polocies minimal government spending policies do much more good for the poor and middle class.
    I won't restrain from saying a lot of blacks just want handouts though.  I've lived most my life in a mostly black community and there's no one in the world going to tell me that most of the citizens in ghettos and secttion 8 housing don't purposly do nothing for a living so they can get free money and food from Uncle Sam.  This is not a black thing, this is a neo-poor man's mindset thing.  We've pushed Welfare into our society and now Welfare is consuming the way of life for our lower income famalies.  We've taught them irresponsibility and promoted their dissent into financial dependency and goaless ambitions.  The fact that it's mostly blacks is just a tragedy for the people, but it has nothing to do with racism.

    I  would like to hear your opinion on why you think blacks have no ambition and depend on the white man to give him handouts. The way you are talking gives me the impression that you think you are better than them. Most black people outside of Africa have forgotten there self worth and there gleaming history which has been distorted over the last 200-300 years.

     

    You put a liquor store on every street corner and constantly remind them of there second rate citizenship and when they do fail its hello prison for years. Who made you the teacher and what gives you the divine right .

    I could show you plenty of white people who lack ambition just as many other cultures have similar people. Lets be real here and not hide behind political mobo and just admit  you don't like blacks because that's how it seems to me.

     

    Like i said before..why to most european americans talk out of there ass


    There's plenty of white people with no ambition...  Plenty of white people living in ghettos and sector 8 housing, but guess what, this thread is on the topic of blacks...  I was merely keeping in line with the OP's discussion parameters.  Do not think for one second that I seclude white trash from selfish minorities - cause I don't.   There are those who are in their situation out of tragedy, and those who are in their situation because of wants.  The fact that the vast majority of poor people in this country are blacks and mexicans is not my fault, and I refuse any blame.

    Perhaps you shouldn't take opinions personal?  Btw, comapnies don't give a shit about the color of your skin or religion you worship at night.  They go where the money is, some ganga you have to accuse them of oppresive marketing when all they're doing is meeting supply and demand.

    What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?

  • PateramaxPateramax Member Posts: 4

    Get over it folks.  Entitlement programs are bankrupting this country, that is a fact.  I dare anyone to challenge me on this.  I'm not spewing rhetoric, I mean litrerally bankrupting this nation.  I'll introduce you to David Walker, the Accountant for this nation.  We're screwed. 

    SS, Medicare, and Medicaid need to be scrapped.  Time to transition people away from these bankrupt programs.  Get the government out of health care entirely.  All it does is drive up costs.  Regulations and mandates need to be scaled back.  Again drives up costs.   States need freedom to find solutions for lower health care costs.   Monetary policy needs to be looked at, a weak dollar just drives up health care prices.  Taxes and regulations need to scaled way back on businesses.  The more money they keep, the more they can invest in expansion.  And new businesses are created.  This means new jobs, wages, and benefits.  Private charity is how to help the poor who can't or won't take advantage. 

    A good portion of blacks are victims of their own culture and the Democrat party.  Dependency, and subsidizing bad behavior are bad ideas.  Look at drug statistics, violent crime statistics, high school dropout statistics,  out of wedlock birth rate statistics, even hate crime statistics (yes, blacks commit more hate crimes).  Jesse Jackson and Obama are not good "black leaders."  Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell are.

     Edit:  Sadly, white culture is catching up.  The social libertines are destroying this country.

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

    I think you are over-simplifying Nasica.

    at least from federal stand-point. americans are already taxed at a 23-40% federal rate.  and that does not include state and in some cases city taxes. and taxes on purchases. as an obnoxious, close minded, seemingly cold-hearted american, without the knowledge of econmics 101, i see a large difference between our 2 countries and economies. not to mention political infrastructure.

     

    it's obvious to me, at least in america, welfare does not get people out of poverty, it seems to keep em there indefinitely. which adds fuel to the dependency vote.

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

    a word like assistance i can live with.  temporary is a nice one too. unfortunately...well, its the politicians, and my belief as far as welfare is concerned, democrat politicians . 3, 4 and 5 generation of welfare reciepients ina family smells funky to me. 

    in this country, the largest economy in the world, the welfare state just keeps growing and growing. entitlements just grow and grow. once an entitlement program comes to life, it never goes away.

    my overall view will never change regarding who is to blame for this crime against poor americans.

    perhaps obama as president will give the black community a chance to see their real potential as productive americans rather than dependents. no, i am not saying black americans are all unproductive so pls, noone hijack that comment.

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

    some ethnicities are prouder of their heritage than others i guess?

    african americans are more prouds to be called such, apparently.

    i prefer to be seperate from euro american-cause im american and maybe not as proud coming from europe? not sure.

    i come from america-not europe. lets leave it as such.

     

     

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

  • OR-NurseOR-Nurse Member Posts: 19

     

    Originally posted by bluberryhaze


     Is it because of the handouts? or the ridiculous notion that Republicans are the rascist?
    an example on a small scale of how dangerous this can be.
    If I always give my son everything and never make him get off his arse and do for himself, he will be one of those guys living in his mothers basement at the age of 30.
    If you keep your hand out for the cheese long enough, you have successfully become dependent on Government. and that my friends, is the goal of the Democrat Party. To keep you depressed and dependent.  Now Republicans on the other hand may play on your fears of big bad terrorists and what-not, but as a society, to keep people lazy is far more dangerous for the future.
     

    The Question has come up before I tend to believe that it's a combination of both nature & nuture.

     

    Most (but not all)black majority nations tend towards one party government. But it can be an effective bargaining tool for black leaders who want a favor for their constituancy. It can also allow blacks to be ignored somewhat(mostly by Republicans)as thier votes are not really in play,only their turnout. The Democrats will try to make high turnout a party objective since they can reasonably assume that once in the voting booth there is a 90+% chance that the black voter will simply vote the Party

  • bluberryhazebluberryhaze Member Posts: 1,702

    Originally posted by OR-Nurse


     
    Originally posted by bluberryhaze


     Is it because of the handouts? or the ridiculous notion that Republicans are the rascist?
    an example on a small scale of how dangerous this can be.
    If I always give my son everything and never make him get off his arse and do for himself, he will be one of those guys living in his mothers basement at the age of 30.
    If you keep your hand out for the cheese long enough, you have successfully become dependent on Government. and that my friends, is the goal of the Democrat Party. To keep you depressed and dependent.  Now Republicans on the other hand may play on your fears of big bad terrorists and what-not, but as a society, to keep people lazy is far more dangerous for the future.
     

    The Question has come up before I tend to believe that it's a combination of both nature & nuture.

     

    Most (but not all)black majority nations tend towards one party government. But it can be an effective bargaining tool for black leaders who want a favor for their constituancy. It can also allow blacks to be ignored somewhat(mostly by Republicans)as thier votes are not really in play,only their turnout. The Democrats will try to make high turnout a party objective since they can reasonably assume that once in the voting booth there is a 90+% chance that the black voter will simply vote the Party

    so, it seems to me , republicans are labeled racist because they don't pander to a specific race? that logic seems like the democrat party are  the ones that are dividing this nation into sub-grps of race? so, is the democrat party the real racists by keeping this nation divided by race and culture? similar to the class-warfare argument of republicans are only for the rich. divide and conquer is the order of the day?

    thank you for that food to munch on, OR-Nurse.

    -I will subtlety invade your psyche-

This discussion has been closed.