I love EVE online to death, but I think a lot of people are missing the point that EVE PVP more than skill or anything else is determined by lag. Especially in fleet engagements.
Also, I dislike the time-based leveling system as well, and think it wouldn't be exceptionally unfair if they provided say a 25% bonus speed in time leveling skills so long as you were logged-in using modules requiring the skills, or a ship that is a pre-requisite.
Thaks for the honest response there. So... according to the purists I'm less of a PvP-er because I don't want earn my PvP time through PvE? I'm less of a PvP-er because I want to spend as much time as possible doing PvP rather than anything else? There is something mighty fishy with that logic there... I'll leave you guys to think about what you really mean by "PvP".
ISK and your own time lost from a PvP loss is *part* of EVE's PvP.
It's what forces you to be smart about what you do. It's what makes fights intense if you risk ships that cost you more. It makes creating traps and out thinking enemy players important since they'll more than likely try to run away if they're in an expensive ship. That means expensive ship kills are that much better as they're generally harder to achieve.
Or perhaps you're the one in the expensive ship! It forces you to think about your own survival instead of just jumping into any and all fights. It makes you *choose* your fights. It's what demoralizes enemies into giving up, the only way to beat another alliance in the game. If they can easily replace all the ships they lose, they'll never give up, and you'll never win.
Regardless, there's a lot of ways to make money if you're clever, which is something EVE rewards generously. My 'grind' is 30 minutes every couple of days and I nearly have 2 billion in isk after 10 months in game.
If Dev's today have learned anything its that POST Launch changing the formula of the game that makes it Popular with its current subscribers (they're obviously turning a rather adequate profit to be able to maintain and continously update the game after all this time) is a BAD BAD THING.
Take SWG For instance. Although the game didn't take off with nearly as many subscribers as people thought it would the ones it did keep were extremely happy bugs n all. It was a sandbox game that needed some fixing to make its long life span viable. Instead the big wigs saw how popular another game was and changed their entire model. Over a years worth of hard work and dedication literally wiped out with the simple push of a button. It destroyed SWG's population and its never recovered, infact its created die hard haters.
If EvE was suddenly to offer more servers people would quickly jump on the 'move' bandwagon destroying entire economies and even long standing Corporations. There's no avoiding this when you have multiple servers people MOVE or relocate all the time, look at other games wehre the moment transfers happened guilds were split in half, economies were destroyed, and good players lost. EvE which is sorely dedicated to its current populace would NEVER recover from changing its Model of One World, One Server.
I'm not that big of hard core pvper, nor am I a fan of EvE but I am a gamer to the heart and the utter destruction of such a unique game would be incredibly sad to see for the MMO market. EvE has its player base and its making an overly healthy profit I dont think they need to start changing their model after all this time.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
If Dev's today have learned anything its that POST Launch changing the formula of the game that makes it Popular with its current subscribers (they're obviously turning a rather adequate profit to be able to maintain and continously update the game after all this time) is a BAD BAD THING.
Take SWG For instance. Although the game didn't take off with nearly as many subscribers as people thought it would the ones it did keep were extremely happy bugs n all. It was a sandbox game that needed some fixing to make its long life span viable. Instead the big wigs saw how popular another game was and changed their entire model. Over a years worth of hard work and dedication literally wiped out with the simple push of a button. It destroyed SWG's population and its never recovered, infact its created die hard haters.
If EvE was suddenly to offer more servers people would quickly jump on the 'move' bandwagon destroying entire economies and even long standing Corporations. There's no avoiding this when you have multiple servers people MOVE or relocate all the time, look at other games wehre the moment transfers happened guilds were split in half, economies were destroyed, and good players lost. EvE which is sorely dedicated to its current populace would NEVER recover from changing its Model of One World, One Server. I'm not that big of hard core pvper, nor am I a fan of EvE but I am a gamer to the heart and the utter destruction of such a unique game would be incredibly sad to see for the MMO market. EvE has its player base and its making an overly healthy profit I dont think they need to start changing their model after all this time.
Well so be it then. Sigh. I should have joined up when the game launched. I had no idea it would turn out this way in the end for newcomers. It's a real pity though since what I saw from my trial really made me almost delirious with joy. If the game was any less good then I'd probably join because I wouldn't care that much about being gimped from the start. Oh well... guess I'll have to wait for some other game although I'm sure it won't be as good, complex and open-ended as EVE since it'll be done by someone like EA or SOE.
Why is it so ingrained in your head that you HAVE to catch up to older players sp wise to enjoy the game?
I know nothing anyone says will ever dissuade you from believing it but it's just so absurd I can't leave it alone. I only joined 9 months ago and EVE is my favorite game. My corp and alliance are generally newer players yet we are doing very well for ourselves. We've taken our own space in 0.0. We've battled older players and we've learned. We generally take a bloody nose at first but then we come up with tactics for defeating them. You DON'T need to have the most SP to succeed at or enjoy this game.
Again, I know nothing is going to change your mind on this but hopefully I can at least inform a few reasonable people who might enjoy playing EVE.
Why do you keep insisting that you can't play the game because you cannot catch up in terms of total skill points ?
While you cannot catch up in total skill points you can easily catch up in relevant skill points to easily compete in combat, manufacturing or market pvp . If you feel you will never be able to run your own alliance and control a region or 2 of space then again you are wrong. Start playing, make your corp and run it well, get into an alliance and show how good of a leader you are and you could easily run an alliance (this is not something that any skill points in the game will ever help you with). Just because one big alliance controls a region of space today that does not mean they will be in control in the future. Alliances fall apart all the time and new alliances form and take over regions.
For example a year or so ago BoB was the big alliance in the universe controlling a fairly large portion of it but today they are no where near the size they once were and their controlled space is much smaller. This isn't to say BoB isn't a factor in the universe any more because they still are but it's an example of how things change.
Sounds more like your mental block is preventing you from playing the game not the fact there is only one server and the older players have more control over space than you will as a new player entering the game today.
Apparently you don't seem to realize that if you were able to be caught up in SP within a month or two to veteran players and be able to do everything they can... that it just wouldn't matter. You'd have no idea what you were doing, where as they would be very experienced in their roles by then and would have no problem tearing you apart.
Time-based training has more balance to it than you seem to realize, and multiple people have stated it time and time again around here. The -ONLY- thing a veteran player's character is going to have up on you is diversity. They can do more things. Specialize in something you want to do right off the bat and you can be caught up in no time and flying that ship class JUST AS proficiently as a veteran.
The only thing the player behind the character is going to have over you is experience.. and not the XP kind. The experience that lets him understand certain mechanics of the game better, which is the -main- reason older players will have an upper hand. Doesn't have to do with SP or ISK.. it has to do with them knowing more about the game, which something that is determined on a player-by-player basis. However much you want to dedicate into learning things in the game. If you want to get involved and ask questions, learn by experience (and even death)..
If you can't deal with that, then EVE will never be for you. It isn't a game that allows anyone to jump in and be good at it, ala WoW. It is completely different than any other MMO on the market right now, and you need to envision it as a world and not a game. Only then can you actually realize the potential within EVE and stop caring about whether or not you have more SP or more money than another player.
It has been said so many times, and i repeat myself over and over again..but well, one more time:
SP ARE IRRELEVANT.
When i fly with my mates, we put our gangs together by shiptype, not by SP. When i want to assault someone i never look how old that character is, but what ship he is flying and how he outfitted it. I have attacked people three times my SP, and got killed by people having less than 1/5 of my SP. Because Skillpoints can give you a rough idea how experienced a char is, but not how deadly he could be to you. I my Corporation i am one of the "older" ones, above average SP. Our gangs consist of newbies and vets all alike. And all are having fun..and all are getting kills..
as the 4 posts above me state, and i stated before, you are cuting off your nose to spite your face.
you like teh game, but have this silly view that you can't catch up.
how about this then, you can buy an older character with ingame credit? so start the game, get the ingame credit and purchace an older character. there you go you now can catch up.
Just dont go below 0.5 secure space and dont join a player corp and you will never get killed in PVP...
Theres a ton of ISKs to be made off of lvl 4 missions that you can solo with a Tanked out BS..
In fact one of my main money makers is a Nightmare TII out and run lvl 4 mission in a matter of minutes then get into looting and salvage you can make a bundle then you can support any habbit you have in EVE..
I run 6 accounts 3 are in one corp for PVP 1 is a in a pirate corp and 1 is the mission runner the last is all industry... aure i can make ISKs in 0,0 and i do but the lvl 4 missions and indusrty finance my PVP toons with out any trouble... lost a navy issue battle ship with some great armot modules and all in all im not worried about the game is great!!
My friend, I ask that you put aside any preconceptions and try this.
Have you and your friends subscribe to EVE for 3 months.
Let this be your (and your friends) trail.
Roll a character that has balanced attributes but with a little bit more perception and willpower and you can skimp a point or two with charisma.
Pick starting skills in the skill groups Spaceship command, gunnery, and navigation. (EDIT: If you roll a Caldari character (and they have the best t2 frigates) or to a lesser extent minmatar, it would be wise to put in some skills in the missile system operation (if that is the name) skill group)
Then look in the recruitment channel, the recruitment forum and recruitment advertisements in the corporations tab.
Find a corp (that will admit you and your friends) that operates frequently in low sec, is PVP oriented, and does frequent communal PVE ops where everyone benefits.
Fight when you can, with what you can afford to lose, focus your training on t1 equipment up to cruiser at least until you start with t2.
As I said before, every ship has a purpose and many enjoy frigate combat above any other ship.
But anyway, do this for three months. If you haven't enjoyed yoruself, I'd be suprised. But if you do this, I imagine you'll find the newbie/vet gap will be increasingly irrelevant.
Oh please!.. dont come with crap about skills again geez... you can easly pvp with the big guys if you specialize yourself to a certain ship or class of ships, in just a few months you will be just as good as them..
..goes back to normal.
Theres many skills on EVE because theres many roles you can take on the game, it doesnt mean you need all the 92mil sp to become as good as the old guys.. Just means you will be just as good as them in a certain role, and increase the number of roles you can have on 1 character in time..
Joining a good corporation that fits your interests is the most important part for a "newbie" to do. From there you will be able to fit in the "community" pretty easly, even if your flying around with 4-5mil sp, its all about making the right choices depending on what you wanna be to start..
This new server discussions are geting old.. To play this game you need to have a brain and learn your way through it, cant expect it to be like WoW where you learn the whole game in a couple of weeks... EVE is a vry different MMO, most people call it the hardest MMO out there but to be honest I think all you need is alot more dedication and more then 50 of IQ lol
First off I can see where you are coming from. Death penalties in EVE are harsh, kinda like in Linage 2 (maybe harsher). But you have to understand that death penalties in EVE play a major role.
Say for example your corporation goes to war against another corp. Your main objective is to cause as much financial harm to the other corp as possible. Of course the only way this is achieved is through harsh death penalties. Now Imagine if you take those penalties away. There would be no point, every corporation and Alliance would be invincible. On top of that the EVE economy is fueled by player losses, take that away and it will collapse.
Whether you like it or not, harsh death penalties is the life stream of EVE. Devs know it, they designed the game to be that way. Take it away and all you have is another WoW clone. Truth is its not going to change, if it really bugs you that much then maybe EVE is not for you.
Having recently resubbed to EVE, the other day I was out running some missions. I got cocky, didn't repair my ship and just healed shields, then went to complete it. I realized just a little too late that I had to warp and out and boom - I was dead. At that point I knew exactly why I love EVE and didn't regret my decision to come back at all.
Comments
I love EVE online to death, but I think a lot of people are missing the point that EVE PVP more than skill or anything else is determined by lag. Especially in fleet engagements.
Also, I dislike the time-based leveling system as well, and think it wouldn't be exceptionally unfair if they provided say a 25% bonus speed in time leveling skills so long as you were logged-in using modules requiring the skills, or a ship that is a pre-requisite.
ISK and your own time lost from a PvP loss is *part* of EVE's PvP.
It's what forces you to be smart about what you do. It's what makes fights intense if you risk ships that cost you more. It makes creating traps and out thinking enemy players important since they'll more than likely try to run away if they're in an expensive ship. That means expensive ship kills are that much better as they're generally harder to achieve.
Or perhaps you're the one in the expensive ship! It forces you to think about your own survival instead of just jumping into any and all fights. It makes you *choose* your fights. It's what demoralizes enemies into giving up, the only way to beat another alliance in the game. If they can easily replace all the ships they lose, they'll never give up, and you'll never win.
Regardless, there's a lot of ways to make money if you're clever, which is something EVE rewards generously. My 'grind' is 30 minutes every couple of days and I nearly have 2 billion in isk after 10 months in game.
If Dev's today have learned anything its that POST Launch changing the formula of the game that makes it Popular with its current subscribers (they're obviously turning a rather adequate profit to be able to maintain and continously update the game after all this time) is a BAD BAD THING.
Take SWG For instance. Although the game didn't take off with nearly as many subscribers as people thought it would the ones it did keep were extremely happy bugs n all. It was a sandbox game that needed some fixing to make its long life span viable. Instead the big wigs saw how popular another game was and changed their entire model. Over a years worth of hard work and dedication literally wiped out with the simple push of a button. It destroyed SWG's population and its never recovered, infact its created die hard haters.
If EvE was suddenly to offer more servers people would quickly jump on the 'move' bandwagon destroying entire economies and even long standing Corporations. There's no avoiding this when you have multiple servers people MOVE or relocate all the time, look at other games wehre the moment transfers happened guilds were split in half, economies were destroyed, and good players lost. EvE which is sorely dedicated to its current populace would NEVER recover from changing its Model of One World, One Server.
I'm not that big of hard core pvper, nor am I a fan of EvE but I am a gamer to the heart and the utter destruction of such a unique game would be incredibly sad to see for the MMO market. EvE has its player base and its making an overly healthy profit I dont think they need to start changing their model after all this time.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Well so be it then. Sigh. I should have joined up when the game launched. I had no idea it would turn out this way in the end for newcomers. It's a real pity though since what I saw from my trial really made me almost delirious with joy. If the game was any less good then I'd probably join because I wouldn't care that much about being gimped from the start. Oh well... guess I'll have to wait for some other game although I'm sure it won't be as good, complex and open-ended as EVE since it'll be done by someone like EA or SOE.
Why is it so ingrained in your head that you HAVE to catch up to older players sp wise to enjoy the game?
I know nothing anyone says will ever dissuade you from believing it but it's just so absurd I can't leave it alone. I only joined 9 months ago and EVE is my favorite game. My corp and alliance are generally newer players yet we are doing very well for ourselves. We've taken our own space in 0.0. We've battled older players and we've learned. We generally take a bloody nose at first but then we come up with tactics for defeating them. You DON'T need to have the most SP to succeed at or enjoy this game.
Again, I know nothing is going to change your mind on this but hopefully I can at least inform a few reasonable people who might enjoy playing EVE.
Why do you keep insisting that you can't play the game because you cannot catch up in terms of total skill points ?
While you cannot catch up in total skill points you can easily catch up in relevant skill points to easily compete in combat, manufacturing or market pvp . If you feel you will never be able to run your own alliance and control a region or 2 of space then again you are wrong. Start playing, make your corp and run it well, get into an alliance and show how good of a leader you are and you could easily run an alliance (this is not something that any skill points in the game will ever help you with). Just because one big alliance controls a region of space today that does not mean they will be in control in the future. Alliances fall apart all the time and new alliances form and take over regions.
For example a year or so ago BoB was the big alliance in the universe controlling a fairly large portion of it but today they are no where near the size they once were and their controlled space is much smaller. This isn't to say BoB isn't a factor in the universe any more because they still are but it's an example of how things change.
Sounds more like your mental block is preventing you from playing the game not the fact there is only one server and the older players have more control over space than you will as a new player entering the game today.
Apparently you don't seem to realize that if you were able to be caught up in SP within a month or two to veteran players and be able to do everything they can... that it just wouldn't matter. You'd have no idea what you were doing, where as they would be very experienced in their roles by then and would have no problem tearing you apart.
Time-based training has more balance to it than you seem to realize, and multiple people have stated it time and time again around here. The -ONLY- thing a veteran player's character is going to have up on you is diversity. They can do more things. Specialize in something you want to do right off the bat and you can be caught up in no time and flying that ship class JUST AS proficiently as a veteran.
The only thing the player behind the character is going to have over you is experience.. and not the XP kind. The experience that lets him understand certain mechanics of the game better, which is the -main- reason older players will have an upper hand. Doesn't have to do with SP or ISK.. it has to do with them knowing more about the game, which something that is determined on a player-by-player basis. However much you want to dedicate into learning things in the game. If you want to get involved and ask questions, learn by experience (and even death)..
If you can't deal with that, then EVE will never be for you. It isn't a game that allows anyone to jump in and be good at it, ala WoW. It is completely different than any other MMO on the market right now, and you need to envision it as a world and not a game. Only then can you actually realize the potential within EVE and stop caring about whether or not you have more SP or more money than another player.
It has been said so many times, and i repeat myself over and over again..but well, one more time:
SP ARE IRRELEVANT.
When i fly with my mates, we put our gangs together by shiptype, not by SP. When i want to assault someone i never look how old that character is, but what ship he is flying and how he outfitted it. I have attacked people three times my SP, and got killed by people having less than 1/5 of my SP.
Because Skillpoints can give you a rough idea how experienced a char is, but not how deadly he could be to you.
I my Corporation i am one of the "older" ones, above average SP. Our gangs consist of newbies and vets all alike. And all are having fun..and all are getting kills..
as the 4 posts above me state, and i stated before, you are cuting off your nose to spite your face.
you like teh game, but have this silly view that you can't catch up.
how about this then, you can buy an older character with ingame credit? so start the game, get the ingame credit and purchace an older character. there you go you now can catch up.
Just dont go below 0.5 secure space and dont join a player corp and you will never get killed in PVP...
Theres a ton of ISKs to be made off of lvl 4 missions that you can solo with a Tanked out BS..
In fact one of my main money makers is a Nightmare TII out and run lvl 4 mission in a matter of minutes then get into looting and salvage you can make a bundle then you can support any habbit you have in EVE..
I run 6 accounts 3 are in one corp for PVP 1 is a in a pirate corp and 1 is the mission runner the last is all industry... aure i can make ISKs in 0,0 and i do but the lvl 4 missions and indusrty finance my PVP toons with out any trouble... lost a navy issue battle ship with some great armot modules and all in all im not worried about the game is great!!
My friend, I ask that you put aside any preconceptions and try this.
Have you and your friends subscribe to EVE for 3 months.
Let this be your (and your friends) trail.
Roll a character that has balanced attributes but with a little bit more perception and willpower and you can skimp a point or two with charisma.
Pick starting skills in the skill groups Spaceship command, gunnery, and navigation. (EDIT: If you roll a Caldari character (and they have the best t2 frigates) or to a lesser extent minmatar, it would be wise to put in some skills in the missile system operation (if that is the name) skill group)
Then look in the recruitment channel, the recruitment forum and recruitment advertisements in the corporations tab.
Find a corp (that will admit you and your friends) that operates frequently in low sec, is PVP oriented, and does frequent communal PVE ops where everyone benefits.
Fight when you can, with what you can afford to lose, focus your training on t1 equipment up to cruiser at least until you start with t2.
As I said before, every ship has a purpose and many enjoy frigate combat above any other ship.
But anyway, do this for three months. If you haven't enjoyed yoruself, I'd be suprised. But if you do this, I imagine you'll find the newbie/vet gap will be increasingly irrelevant.
God Bless
Creed Richards
Im gona go emo for a sentence now..
Oh please!.. dont come with crap about skills again geez... you can easly pvp with the big guys if you specialize yourself to a certain ship or class of ships, in just a few months you will be just as good as them..
..goes back to normal.
Theres many skills on EVE because theres many roles you can take on the game, it doesnt mean you need all the 92mil sp to become as good as the old guys.. Just means you will be just as good as them in a certain role, and increase the number of roles you can have on 1 character in time..
Joining a good corporation that fits your interests is the most important part for a "newbie" to do. From there you will be able to fit in the "community" pretty easly, even if your flying around with 4-5mil sp, its all about making the right choices depending on what you wanna be to start..
This new server discussions are geting old.. To play this game you need to have a brain and learn your way through it, cant expect it to be like WoW where you learn the whole game in a couple of weeks... EVE is a vry different MMO, most people call it the hardest MMO out there but to be honest I think all you need is alot more dedication and more then 50 of IQ lol
First off I can see where you are coming from. Death penalties in EVE are harsh, kinda like in Linage 2 (maybe harsher). But you have to understand that death penalties in EVE play a major role.
Say for example your corporation goes to war against another corp. Your main objective is to cause as much financial harm to the other corp as possible. Of course the only way this is achieved is through harsh death penalties. Now Imagine if you take those penalties away. There would be no point, every corporation and Alliance would be invincible. On top of that the EVE economy is fueled by player losses, take that away and it will collapse.
Whether you like it or not, harsh death penalties is the life stream of EVE. Devs know it, they designed the game to be that way. Take it away and all you have is another WoW clone. Truth is its not going to change, if it really bugs you that much then maybe EVE is not for you.
My 2 isks.
Having recently resubbed to EVE, the other day I was out running some missions. I got cocky, didn't repair my ship and just healed shields, then went to complete it. I realized just a little too late that I had to warp and out and boom - I was dead. At that point I knew exactly why I love EVE and didn't regret my decision to come back at all.