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Understanding & Reconciliation in the Post WoW Era

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  • complexiatorcomplexiator Member UncommonPosts: 121

    Ofcourse nothing against the people who like the game. I blame the people who complain and still paid for that world of shit.

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  • ZarraaZarraa Member Posts: 481

    Originally posted by Vincenz


    Even worse, many "good games" that were being fully enjoyed by subscribers have been altered to systems and ideas to "WoW-ify" them in attempt to chase those kind of numbers.
    Hence the only true problem I ever had with WOW. I enjoyed my time with that game and it was a welcome break from the more serious titles. However I went back to EQII and found they'd simplified it to compete.

    That's the problem with huge success, people try and alter their original formula to cash in. Anyone recall the rash of surviver & American Idol knockoffs? I,m not a big fan of replication, perhaps that's why CoX is the only title I currently pay for.

    Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
    Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.

  • GishgeronGishgeron Member Posts: 1,287

    Originally posted by Zarraa


     
    Originally posted by Vincenz


    Even worse, many "good games" that were being fully enjoyed by subscribers have been altered to systems and ideas to "WoW-ify" them in attempt to chase those kind of numbers.
    Hence the only true problem I ever had with WOW. I enjoyed my time with that game and it was a welcome break from the more serious titles. However I went back to EQII and found they'd simplified it to compete.

     

    That's the problem with huge success, people try and alter their original formula to cash in. Anyone recall the rash of surviver & American Idol knockoffs? I,m not a big fan of replication, perhaps that's why CoX is the only title I currently pay for.

     

    CoX is wonderful, I absolutely love that game and miss it right now,

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  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697

    Originally posted by Timberwolf0


    Greetings and salutations friends.
    I write today to address a serious issue which I have found cropping up repeatedly on the mmorpg boards. Firstly, and in the interest of full disclosure, let me say that the first MMO I ever played was DAoC, and I have never played World of Warcraft. That said, I cannot understand the hatred and venom so many people here direct towards WoW players. It seems like most anyone who posts about wow or their past experiences in wow and how they relate to a current issue are immediately set upon and/or flamed.
    This post is a call for understanding. We can't blame them if they started MMO's with WoW, indeed WoW popularized the whole MMO genre to a much greater degree and brought in more people to the market which means more money coming in and hopefully better games as a result. Don't blame people just because they started with WoW; it's mindlessly prejudiced to do so.
    Everyone had that first MMO they played, whether it was Everquest, Anarchy Online, DAoC or something else, we all have that first mmo sitting in our pasts like an ex girlfriend or boyfriend, and inevitably we have all been heavily shaped by that first interaction. So please, the next time a person references wow or uses it, remember to be understanding.
    I think this frustration comming from games made after wow many think alot now looks like wow and are not happy with it and also many mmo's fail.

    But funny thing is there are more mmorpgs made in last few years copying LINEAGE2:p.

    A lso alot of players who come here are oldtimers playing mmo's sinds 90's early 2000+ then suddenly there beloved mmorpg.com forum is invaded by all those new comers who mostly play wow and its there first mmorpg so topics make here are manytimes useless and very one sided the knowlage they have from only wow.

    And as you of this moment today see 29 january 2008 alot of negative topics on general:(

    Thats not looking positive for future.

    If you start a topic with positive about mmorpgs like i did you mostly get flames lol.

     

    Have fun:)

     

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

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  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539

    Some of the hatred towards WoW is simply because its a hugely successful game, which managed to get lots of different types of people together. Kinda like the Kumbaya of Games  lol.

    A lot of other MMOs were niche: they generally only tailored to one side or another of a given market. So if you werent up on D and D lore, medieval lore, this lore, that lore; you didnt get it so you quit it. Most of these games had decent numbers for a little while, but most all tapered off as most people dont share those niches. The people on those games were constantly trying to convince people to sub their games because it was so "cool" and fun; but they didnt realize most people didnt think it was. Most people hated playing them after a bit and when they said so, they were somewhat dismissed as "good riddance". Somehow, a lot of these people ended up in WoW and never left.

    Wow was also able to get and KEEP people brand new to MMOs, which a lot of mmos can't claim. Sure you have isolated posters saying, "Not me, i love Vanguard. I dont care how bad it is, go back and play WoW. I dont care who thinks this stinks" (Asian grinder fans a big example too). But they really would love more new players on their servers fawning over them. While these other games are merging servers, WoW was expanding and adding more. Thats gotta hurt when you think your niche love is so cool, yet very few people acknowledge it, or even HEARD of it.

    WoW didnt need a niche. So their numbers grow. You dont have to like or even understand elves and dwarves to play WoW. Just log on and get to it. Theres no real "Lore nerds" of a certain type to feel inferior to. In WoW, every can be fairly equal which some people secretly hate.

     

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138
    Originally posted by Zarraa


     
    Originally posted by Vincenz


    Even worse, many "good games" that were being fully enjoyed by subscribers have been altered to systems and ideas to "WoW-ify" them in attempt to chase those kind of numbers.
    Hence the only true problem I ever had with WOW. I enjoyed my time with that game and it was a welcome break from the more serious titles. However I went back to EQII and found they'd simplified it to compete.

     

    That's the problem with huge success, people try and alter their original formula to cash in. Anyone recall the rash of surviver & American Idol knockoffs? I,m not a big fan of replication, perhaps that's why CoX is the only title I currently pay for.



    I understand this sentiment, however it should be noted that your anger should be directed toward SoE and EQII for changing their software to compete rather than at Blizzard, WoW or it's players for it's success.

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  • SuorySuory Member Posts: 90

    I totally agree with what almost everyone is saying so far.

    In my opinion, WoW has done nothing in their game that has not been done already except get huge numbers of people playing it.  We can debate why they have had that kind of sucess, but It is not really that important. What is important is how other games are being effected by WoW. I totally agree with the poster that said that WoW has turned the entire genre backwards.  To me the game was nothing but a new Everquest with instanced PvP. Everquest was the ultimate rading and item centric game.  We are never going to get away from the status quo in MMORPGS if companies only try to copy WoW to get the huge numbers.

    Also, It does not help having a ton of hate posts from WoW players all across the message boards either. I have never seen such garabe comming from these players in my life.  Take into effect that I started playing MUDS in the late 90's and have played every big release game since then. I know these are only a small portion of players, but it really turns a lot of people off to the game and the players. Whether that is right or wrong or not, It is a fact of life.

    I honestly hope that we can move away from all of this in the next couple of years. We need some really good games to come out that are sucessful for this to happen. If that does not happen, we are going to get a ton of games that are crap and be the same thing that I played from 1999 to 2002.

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  • k9wazerek9wazere Member Posts: 84

    Originally posted by Pappy13


    I understand this sentiment, however it should be noted that your anger should be directed toward SoE and EQII for changing their software to compete rather than at Blizzard, WoW or it's players for it's success.
    Until they come to this other game's forums and start asking them to change it, to suit how it was back when they were playing WoW.

     

    Basically, it's been my experience that people who quit WoW are looking for something 99% similar to WoW. They probably don't even know what the 1% is they dislike. Maybe they're just bored.

     

    But there's nothing so guaranteed as a former WoW player coming to a new game forum, and then calling everyone who likes death-penalties or corpse-runs "hardcore no-life losers".

  • Povey151Povey151 Member Posts: 250

    Originally posted by rscott6666


     
    Originally posted by Povey151


    You have to understand that WoW did nothing pioneering with gameplay. Small zoned areas, extremely cookie cutter characters, instances, no world events etc. etc..

     

    What does it matter if nothing was pioneered?  Very little has been pioneered in most game genres, it doesn't devalue the games that come out.

    Blizzard did alot of things right where they could just as easily have done alot of things wrong.  Saying they just copied other games doesn't do it justice.  If it were that easy ALL games would be that good. But its not like that.  Alot of games screwed up in so many ways.  wow didn't screw up.  Don't fault them for that.

    Several times i was in wow asking myself, how come other games didn't do that, several seemingly obvious things that other games didn't do but should have. 

    I predict a lot of games will follow wow and do poorly because they don't copy the good decisions wow made.

     

    The problem isnt so much that it wasnt pioneering. The problem is that wows success based on pulling the mildly retarded fanbase they seem to have had set the standard for all mmo's to use crappy outdated systems such as cookie cutter characters, lack of world events, and small zoned worlds.

  • SonofSethSonofSeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,884

    Originally posted by Povey151


     
     
    The problem isnt so much that it wasnt pioneering. The problem is that wows success based on pulling the mildly retarded fanbase they seem to have had set the standard for all mmo's to use crappy outdated systems such as cookie cutter characters, lack of world events, and small zoned worlds.
    Blizzard knew it's limits where other companys didn't. They could have put all of that in WoW, but it couldn't have been of the same quality and polish it is now.

     

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  • Nightdragon8Nightdragon8 Member Posts: 53

    Honestly WoW was easy to play and what not but I mainly play MMO because of my friends, and i wanna do things online with my online friends. With wow because it was a loot centric game. Guess what all the fights where about loot. Wah wah, I want this epic I want that epic, you already got an epic this run. Honestly it was like watching little kids fight over candy.

    We where all friends with PS, which was a skill based game and didnt have any loot to speak of. Sure there was a fight over maybe a drop of a jackhammer or minigun but it was quickly resolved by one person killing the other until one of them gave up. Then everything would be fine. Then the guilds on wow at elast on blackrock allince, honestly was run by kids... some kids even as old as 25-30 years old. I'm guild leader, or im an officer I should get the ledgendary item, wah wah.

    For me it became more of World of Dramacraft, and i got tired of it. So i left and now waiting for AoC or Jumpgate:E or Darkfall.

     

  • RecantRecant Member UncommonPosts: 1,586

    WoW is far from perfect and other games do better in certain areas, however I would say that the majority of complaints and criticisms levelled at WoW on THESE forums are misguided.  People tend to get emotional and say things like "it's a kiddie cartoony world", not really understanding that the game is more suited to adults than the majority of other MMOS, particularly the more old-school ones.

    When I was a student I could camp for 10 hours in the same room straight hoping for a rare spawn and a rare drop, which would never come.  I could farm VT keys and the bane weapons all day and invest dozens and dozens of hours just getting the key parts, and then having to do many raids so that everyone got a key.

    These days I work and I can't do that stuff anymore, except on weekends.  So to me, MMORPGs which are poorly designed to take too damn long to do anything (and lets be fair, they were never more difficult, it just took longer to progress) , they are the kiddie MMOs.  WoW is the adult one.

    Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...

  • Hrayr2148Hrayr2148 Member Posts: 649

    I played WoW for 2.5 years...with occasionaly 4-5 month breaks in between. I havn't played WoW since November of 2007.

    When 10 million people play a game, then it's doing something right. I don't think people are giving the credit WoW deserves. After all, it is a Blizzard game. No other MMO is as polished as WoW. Yes it's casual friendly but it provides great pve hardcore raiding content as well. I am at a point where I am all WoW'ed out. When I logged on the last month or so, I wasn't having fun, and so I just left for something new.

    I have never had a problem with the WoW population. in 10 million people you will find a variety of different personalities. It is not that WoW attracts a certain kind of gamer, but rather it has attracted ALL types of gamers. When you own 63% of the MMO market then you should get credit where credit is due. I would agree that WoW is just a fad if within the last 3.5 years, it died out. But it continues to grow which is a testament to being able to attract new gamers while being able to maintain the current subscriber base.

    But, I believe WoW has been successful in large part to a lack of competition. Once WAR and AoC come out, i believe that WoW will lose 2 million subscribers IF the two games live up to their promise. Some people are just sick of WoW not becuase it inherently sucks but because something won't be as exciting if it's the same old thing for 4 years. Unless WoW changes with Wrath of the Lich King expansion, a lot of people will give up the grind and move on. If, Wrath of the Lich King is really different and WAR/AoC don't live up to their potential, people will go back to WoW because no other game has given them a reason to leave.

     

     

     

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