The point is, on a purely idealogical level, we can't let it go. If we let it go and SWG beats the odds and succeeds, it will open the doors to other companies trying the same thing. It will encourage game companies to discard their player base in hopes of a larger one with some history on their side.
Any gaming company that dares try to repeat the mistakes of SWG CU and NGE will be doomed to failure, SWG is only just starting to recover from those monumental changes that had a largely negative effect on the playerbase (I'm refering to the players that did prefer the CU, nobody liked the NGE) and it seems that SoE has at least learnt their lesson well and is beginning to attone for it by basing their publish plans directly on player feedback.
That may be....but i have to agree.....the NGE and SWG are really too far along to save (by save i mean get back to the original numbers/population). The current devs are doing a much better job than their last 2 predecessors, but sometimes it's too little too late. Once in a while i log back into my home on valcyn. only to be reminded that the population is decimated. I honestly think the only way to truly save this game IF they keep the NGE is to merge servers. 80% of the servers are at the lowest population they have been in years. There's no suger coating it. Right now you have 4-5 decently populated servers, the rest are barren waste lands. This is what keeps me from staying subbed. I could deal with the crappy NGE, the destruction of crafting (i was a chef....), and the blandness, IF the population was there.
arguing with a corporate fanboi is like teaching special education. even if you teach him something...at the end of the day he's still retarded.
I admit to not knowing everything about this whole thing but what i have noticed is that smedley and co have on numerous occasions admitted that it was a huge mistake and one that they wont make again! i dont know the guy so i can't say if he will stick to that at all but one thing i can clearly see.....your asking them to do exactly the same thing again! in all your "morale" arguments you actually would be hppy if soe did exactly the same thing to guys like me, who has only been playing the game for 2 weeks and i'm inoccent in ll this....so why would you smile if soe changed the game completely for me? all you would be doing is showing companys that it's ok to change the game as long as you bow down to the majority eventually and change it back..in the process doing exactly the same to the present player base. So please dont claim morales and such if you then state that the only way you would come back is if soe did the same to us present players.
In the end you are going to have it happen anyway. For all the spin they put on it...the game has lost subscribers in numbers that would make even Blizzard cringe. I'm not saying its about to die...but with WAR and AoC coming out and the possibility for a new Star Wars MMO, this game is a dead fish in the water just waiting for someone to scoop it out now. The already tested players left are very likely to try one of the new MMO's on the horizon, and you can bet plenty of them are leaving for them. Both games stand to have a great deal of polish and content to compete with WoW, and both companies are going to be very keen on listening to their players.
The fact is, of all the MMO's out there....this one really is on its last legs. Games like Vanguard and Hellgate get bad hype too, but they aren't niche IP's. The only thing selling SWG right now is the Star Wars IP....and on THAT level it will only appeal to a very small number of people. Pre-Cu / CU it appealed on a Sci-Fi sandbox level, and that opened many doors that were closed in its face before. It doesn't have that now. So while Vanguard gets hated on....there are still very large numbers of players trying it out all the time because its corner of the market is founded on an appeal that more people like. Even if it sucked more than SWG....it would see more players because Star Wars has the habit of being considered nerdy even amongst the nerd (lol, I know I know....its stupid. But its also true.)
Finally, most vets are asking for Classic servers. That would have no affect on your servers...outside of players potentially leaving it to enjoy ours. Wanna know something? If that many people think its better...perhaps you could try it too. In the end, at least the population is there. What good is the star wars universe when its a wasteland?
If NGE is failing so badly (and it is) why on Earth is it so hard to do either a rollback or classic servers? From a business perspective that just seems like insanity....and shows they really haven't learned a thing. Everything they say is pure spin, in the end they seem to still think that magical "Flood" of players is just around the corner. Let me be more accurate here.....
If I'm selling apples, and you are selling oranges then we have two very different products and two different potentials for profit. Were I to notice that your oranges sold way more than my apples....I might be inclined to throw away my apples and try selling oranges. However...if my oranges not ONLY didn't sell as well as yours, but also FAR undersold my apples I'm willing to bet its not a hard choice to return to selling apples again. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to convince my business partners to go along with that either...it IS all about the money after all.
In fact, my example is HARDER than what SOE is faced with. In my example you have contracts with Orange warehouses and sellers to consider. There isn't some magical contract out there that says they HAVE to use any build for the game for 10 years. If there were, it would stand to reason that they couldn't have jumped out with the NGE like they did. All they had to do with it was get clearance from LA. Just how hard could it be to convince LA to go back? Honestly? They were making at least 5 times the money back then. What business man would be so stupid to ignore such data?
you answered your own question LA for some reason refuses to do this, and it's not the first time LA has had some questionable decision about their games. Look at KOTOR 2.....Bioware was originally working on it, then (now this is speculation if i remember correctly) didn't want to work with LA anymore due to them being too controlling with the direction of the game. LA then decided to go with pandemic, who released KOTOR2 buggy and incomplete due to LA's pressuring to get the game out
The point is, on a purely idealogical level, we can't let it go. If we let it go and SWG beats the odds and succeeds, it will open the doors to other companies trying the same thing. It will encourage game companies to discard their player base in hopes of a larger one with some history on their side.
Any gaming company that dares try to repeat the mistakes of SWG CU and NGE will be doomed to failure, SWG is only just starting to recover from those monumental changes that had a largely negative effect on the playerbase (I'm refering to the players that did prefer the CU, nobody liked the NGE) and it seems that SoE has at least learnt their lesson well and is beginning to attone for it by basing their publish plans directly on player feedback.
That may be....but i have to agree.....the NGE and SWG are really too far along to save (by save i mean get back to the original numbers/population). The current devs are doing a much better job than their last 2 predecessors, but sometimes it's too little too late. Once in a while i log back into my home on valcyn. only to be reminded that the population is decimated. I honestly think the only way to truly save this game IF they keep the NGE is to merge servers. 80% of the servers are at the lowest population they have been in years. There's no suger coating it. Right now you have 4-5 decently populated servers, the rest are barren waste lands. This is what keeps me from staying subbed. I could deal with the crappy NGE, the destruction of crafting (i was a chef....), and the blandness, IF the population was there.
As much as I hate SOE , the game wont shutdown any time soon. It may be on life support but It will stay that way. If for no other reason other than arrogance. The main reason is just another game to beef up the station pass.
If NGE is failing so badly (and it is) why on Earth is it so hard to do either a rollback or classic servers? From a business perspective that just seems like insanity....and shows they really haven't learned a thing. Everything they say is pure spin, in the end they seem to still think that magical "Flood" of players is just around the corner. Let me be more accurate here.....
If I'm selling apples, and you are selling oranges then we have two very different products and two different potentials for profit. Were I to notice that your oranges sold way more than my apples....I might be inclined to throw away my apples and try selling oranges. However...if my oranges not ONLY didn't sell as well as yours, but also FAR undersold my apples I'm willing to bet its not a hard choice to return to selling apples again. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to convince my business partners to go along with that either...it IS all about the money after all.
In fact, my example is HARDER than what SOE is faced with. In my example you have contracts with Orange warehouses and sellers to consider. There isn't some magical contract out there that says they HAVE to use any build for the game for 10 years. If there were, it would stand to reason that they couldn't have jumped out with the NGE like they did. All they had to do with it was get clearance from LA. Just how hard could it be to convince LA to go back? Honestly? They were making at least 5 times the money back then. What business man would be so stupid to ignore such data?
you answered your own question LA for some reason refuses to do this, and it's not the first time LA has had some questionable decision about their games. Look at KOTOR 2.....Bioware was originally working on it, then (now this is speculation if i remember correctly) didn't want to work with LA anymore due to them being too controlling with the direction of the game. LA then decided to go with obsidian, who released KOTOR2 buggy and incomplete due to LA's pressuring to get the game out
That could be due simply to the fact that larger companies do not rely on any one outlet for primary income. Think of it from the Trump view, if you own if you are a parent company to a few thousand different markets then no single market has to be overly profitable to ensure you still make billions. In the end LA makes its largest money from merchandise and movies...they probably do some moonlight FX for others on the side as well. The MMO need only make a pittance, enough to keep it running and deliver something at all.
Frankly, in the end, its SOE that takes the losses in that regard by having to cut staff to compensate for their own bottom line...since I'm very certain LA's bottom line is secured in contract. The fact remains though that SOE were the ones to do the convincing to begin with...and if they managed to do it that time they can do it again. Regardless of reason, no financial body is going to ignore profit potential. The only thing one needs to do to in these situations is guarantee this profit potential (most business deals work with low risk / high reward, though in the case of mega high reward it sometimes happens that a company will invest with high risk so long as the concept has a strong force leading it) and LA would bend.
There is a very SIMPLE way to guarantee profit potential here. Stage the ideal to the players, and get serious player feedback and use that market research to decide on a course which could garner the potential. Even the most hateful vets would open up with a quickness if SOE actually stood up and said "we suck, and we need your help. Lets talk, and this time....we are going to really do something about this problem based on what you guys have to say." If you pool a thousand people and see a 50-75% success in popular opinion then what you have is a far stronger case than they likely presented in the NGE discussion. Because, we all know that the NGE discussion HAD to be a higher risk case than what I'm prescribing. No guarantee, just pure speculation based on other market success stories.
ego much? I think you have reiterated this point....oh...forget it, i lost count lol. And besides, even if they reinstated you said you wouldn't come back unless XXX and XXX etc were fired, so unless your getting desperate this won't change
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Hahahahahaaaaaahaha
Oh that was the greatest thanks for the laugh.
Wakeup call time, No matter how big your ego maybe and no matter how much you think your hurting SOE your demands will never happen.
Oh and news flash when your dead and gone the world will continue on...
ego much? I think you have reiterated this point....oh...forget it, i lost count lol. And besides, even if they reinstated you said you wouldn't come back unless XXX and XXX etc were fired, so unless your getting desperate this won't change
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Hahahahahaaaaaahaha
Oh that was the greatest thanks for the laugh.
Wakeup call time, No matter how big your ego maybe and no matter how much you think your hurting SOE your demands will never happen.
Oh and news flash when your dead and gone the world will continue on...
We've hurt them alright. They are begging for us to come back.
The point is, on a purely idealogical level, we can't let it go. If we let it go and SWG beats the odds and succeeds, it will open the doors to other companies trying the same thing. It will encourage game companies to discard their player base in hopes of a larger one with some history on their side.
Ok, this phrase is why I roll my eyes at SWG vets. This is a game, a form of entertainment and in the end nothing that is really important in life. You make it sound like campaigning for human rights, or fighting against poverty.
Companies will discard player bases if it is in their best interests, they exist to make money and if they perceive the opportunity to make more money they will change everything. NGE failed, so? When the contract runs out the servers will be shut down and the resources moved to something more profitable. If anything you should have learned not to put your emotional well being into the hands of a corporation, because in the end they don't care. This isn't just Sony; it's Vivendi, EA, Microsoft etc. you are valuable as long as you pay and if they feel they can get two subscriptions to your one by changing things they will.
NGE didn't work as they hoped, but that's also the way this stuff works. You win some and you loose some, but it didn't help that there are two corporate entities at play with this or any future Star Wars game.
Who is it for anyone to tell the OP to get over it and go outside. I own 2 buisness's and have a family and still had enough time in the day to fully enjoy SWG in the pre-cu times. It would be a travisty to just let it go, like some are saying. SOE is a shaddy dev company that needs to be exposed everyday to the gaming public on how low down their buisness practices are.
While i don't look down on anyone that statred playing SWG after the NGE, i do take offense with the so called NGE vet fanboi's that come here and try to convince us that the game is better and is heading in the right direction, when they just know that's not true.
It's kinda funny that i can get on a you know what server and use the search, and find more people playing than i can on the SOE servers.That should tell SOE and their fanbois alot about what era of the game most people want to play in.
I also do believe that once these new crop of games come out, SOE will have no choice but to add classic severs or shut down. Add in the fact that if Bioware is making a new SW MMO, you can surely forget about SWG staying around even on life support.
Even if it's not a SW mmo, you have to take into account new sci fi MMO's coming out like stargate and earthrise, which if anyone has read about it, will be a open sandbox game like SW pre-cu was. Either way SWG is done, and i will tell everyone that asks me about it, to stay as far away from it, unless the game goes back to pre-cu.
I admit to not knowing everything about this whole thing but what i have noticed is that smedley and co have on numerous occasions admitted that it was a huge mistake and one that they wont make again! i dont know the guy so i can't say if he will stick to that at all but one thing i can clearly see.....your asking them to do exactly the same thing again! in all your "morale" arguments you actually would be hppy if soe did exactly the same thing to guys like me, who has only been playing the game for 2 weeks and i'm inoccent in ll this....so why would you smile if soe changed the game completely for me? all you would be doing is showing companys that it's ok to change the game as long as you bow down to the majority eventually and change it back..in the process doing exactly the same to the present player base. So please dont claim morales and such if you then state that the only way you would come back is if soe did the same to us present players.
You're not getting the point, I think
We're asking for CLASSIC SERVERS, like other games have done. Implying the non-classic ones can stay for all we care. If they have any backup procedures at all, they COULD restore Bloodfin to Classic Bloodfin, for instance (ANY normal company saves its backups at least 5 years). This would not harm those who choose NGE in any way, shape or form.
And even if we'd have to start all over on clean servers, a lot of us WOULD come back. A poll lately on another forum suggests 42% of that particular group of former SWG players would be interested.
As to Smedley: he's a great talker, but he promised us after the CU they'd never make such large changes again too. He has stated it was a 'mistake' to implement the NGE, but never once has he appologised to the player base, either for the way they implemented the CU/NGE, or for the way they treated us in their own forums or in the media.
I dont miss the oint friend i was referring more to the so called vets that label all present players as 15 yar olds or idiots! these are the people asking for the whole game to be rolled back so that we see what it's like.
And this one's to Gishgeron, friend if classic servers were brought into play, i would cancel my present account gladly just to get a chance to play on it......believe me i feel let down because i never had the chance to experience the old swg.....just to get a chance to see what all the fuss is about i would gladly delete every char on every game i have.
I dont miss the oint friend i was referring more to the so called vets that label all present players as 15 yar olds or idiots! these are the people asking for the whole game to be rolled back so that we see what it's like. And this one's to Gishgeron, friend if classic servers were brought into play, i would cancel my present account gladly just to get a chance to play on it......believe me i feel let down because i never had the chance to experience the old swg.....just to get a chance to see what all the fuss is about i would gladly delete every char on every game i have.
Heh, just ignore the trolls, I think most of us do. They're no better than the morons who come here to taunt veterans.
Originally posted by BadgerSmaker Originally posted by Raston The point is, on a purely idealogical level, we can't let it go. If we let it go and SWG beats the odds and succeeds, it will open the doors to other companies trying the same thing. It will encourage game companies to discard their player base in hopes of a larger one with some history on their side.
Any gaming company that dares try to repeat the mistakes of SWG CU and NGE will be doomed to failure, SWG is only just starting to recover from those monumental changes that had a largely negative effect on the playerbase (I'm refering to the players that did prefer the CU, nobody liked the NGE) and it seems that SoE has at least learnt their lesson well and is beginning to attone for it by basing their publish plans directly on player feedback. Unfortunately, they keep making the same mistakes. It seems they haven't learned a thing which is why the game is no longer recovering.
I dont miss the oint friend i was referring more to the so called vets that label all present players as 15 yar olds or idiots! these are the people asking for the whole game to be rolled back so that we see what it's like. And this one's to Gishgeron, friend if classic servers were brought into play, i would cancel my present account gladly just to get a chance to play on it......believe me i feel let down because i never had the chance to experience the old swg.....just to get a chance to see what all the fuss is about i would gladly delete every char on every game i have.
I'm sure many would. I'm sure that most would enjoy it, or at least enjoy the sense of world and community it creates. To be able to live in a world that felt alive is sometimes worth more than just playing a fun game.
They have the power to make a good case to LA and do it. They need only follow the plan I shot out up there and its done. When making business adjustments and discussions one needs to have proof and information (preferrably in the form of graphs) to make the point stand. They can do this. They can win back the trust of their former players with very few steps, and very little investment at all. No matter how mad we are, in the end we are still human and humans are never incapable of forgiving so long as we are given great reason to.
Even Sav would be willing, I know he rants...but its not because his mind is in the wrong place. He wants Smed fired BECAUSE the man never took the time to listen to us or even try to meet us in the middle. If he really stood up and admitted he needed us, and that he was GOING to try and give the players what they wanted I'm sure he would give him a chance at least.
But that isn't what SOE does, I'm afraid. This whole issue exists, not because there is nothing they can do, but because they want to do nothing. I do honestly think that Smed and his cronies just do not want to admit that they cannot make the game good enough, and that they need us to help them with it. Pride has been the poison of more than one empire though, so it doesn't shock me at all to think the Smed just won't let go of it.
Smed has to go before I could ever have a "baseline of trust" in SOE again. Period. Classic servers aren't enough anymore for me. Others probably don't take as hard a line as I do, but that's just my feeling on this.
The captain of the ship is ultimately responsible for the actions of the crew.
While I in no way want to mitigate the effect of the NGE or even the CURB the fact is that both were done in reaction to the large exodus of players from SWG to WoW. Many casual players left early, and around summer of 2005 many hard core players had maxed out their Jedi and begun to move on, like myself.
While I mataintained two active accounts up until the NGE launched, I had not put more than a couple hours into the game a week.
The NGE was put into place to try and attract FPS players primarily because the vast majority of traditional MMO players had migrated to WoW. It wasn't until early 2006 that EQ2 was able to lure back a significant number, however, given the original subscription models for SWG called for 1,000,000 players, nothing could have made the original SWG capable of that jump of 750,000 people.
Now, if a Star Wars game was released today, given the gigantic influx of people who are not traditional MMO players who subscribe to WoW, it could likely top 1 million, but LA would want 12 million in order to claim to be the biggest western MMO, regardless, Star Wars Galaxies could never have the polish or feel of WoW which would appeal to brand new players.
That's my "enough is enough" because SWG is my favorite past played MMO but likewise nothing short of a classic Pre-CU fresh start server would bring me back.
I admit to not knowing everything about this whole thing but what i have noticed is that smedley and co have on numerous occasions admitted that it was a huge mistake and one that they wont make again! i dont know the guy so i can't say if he will stick to that at all but one thing i can clearly see.....your asking them to do exactly the same thing again! in all your "morale" arguments you actually would be hppy if soe did exactly the same thing to guys like me, who has only been playing the game for 2 weeks and i'm inoccent in ll this....so why would you smile if soe changed the game completely for me? all you would be doing is showing companys that it's ok to change the game as long as you bow down to the majority eventually and change it back..in the process doing exactly the same to the present player base. So please dont claim morales and such if you then state that the only way you would come back is if soe did the same to us present players.
Actually the ONLY thing that Smed and Co. have admitted to was that they handled the release of the NGE poorly. They have never admitted that the NGE was a mistake, they have never admitted that the "vocal minority" turned out to be the vast majority of the subscribers, and they have not stated that they would not do the same thing again.
SOE and their games are to the mmo genre what the Yugo was to the automotive industry.
ego much? I think you have reiterated this point....oh...forget it, i lost count lol. And besides, even if they reinstated you said you wouldn't come back unless XXX and XXX etc were fired, so unless your getting desperate this won't change
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Considering you'll never get any of these things, and you've made the same point 8 million times, don't you think it's time to actually give it a rest and find something more productive to do with your time?
Originally posted by severius Originally posted by shukes33 I admit to not knowing everything about this whole thing but what i have noticed is that smedley and co have on numerous occasions admitted that it was a huge mistake and one that they wont make again! i dont know the guy so i can't say if he will stick to that at all but one thing i can clearly see.....your asking them to do exactly the same thing again! in all your "morale" arguments you actually would be hppy if soe did exactly the same thing to guys like me, who has only been playing the game for 2 weeks and i'm inoccent in ll this....so why would you smile if soe changed the game completely for me? all you would be doing is showing companys that it's ok to change the game as long as you bow down to the majority eventually and change it back..in the process doing exactly the same to the present player base. So please dont claim morales and such if you then state that the only way you would come back is if soe did the same to us present players.
Actually the ONLY thing that Smed and Co. have admitted to was that they handled the release of the NGE poorly. They have never admitted that the NGE was a mistake, they have never admitted that the "vocal minority" turned out to be the vast majority of the subscribers, and they have not stated that they would not do the same thing again. SOE and their games are to the mmo genre what the Yugo was to the automotive industry. Indeed; they feel it was a problem of communication, not one of ethics. This is why they keep making the same mistakes, and they keep failing, even though they no longer "suprise us."
Until they stop NGEing the game, they won't get anywhere.
Simply put, what the fanbois, SOE, and their lackeys on the "senate" need to understand is that 200K+ of us are gone. We left BECAUSE of the NGE, and there isn't anything they can POSSIBLY add to the NGE, no matter HOW many Devs they hire, even if they come out with a "chapter" a WEEK that will EVER bring us back. We aren't coming back. Get used to the tiny (and shrinking) populations on your servers. There is nothing you can say or do, short of re-instating our game (and that might not even do it) that will bring us back. At this point, why should we settle for ANYTHING short of that, having held out this long? We are gone. Get over it.
Your game is never coming back, it might just be me, but I wasn't aware that 4 years worth of whining would bring PreCU back.
There is nothing you can say or do to change that.
SOE doesn't give a rats ass about you or any other players that played at release or upto the CU or NGE.
Held out? so your own poorly formed expectations are SOE's fault as well? how rich.
Lackeys on the senate? holy christ I won't even dignify that with a response, your a lost cause mate.
News flash chief, you played the game for a period of time in a past incarnation, most NGE players have more "veteran" time invested into the game than you ever did or ever will, however those of us that actually stuck with the game and kept on playing are the real vets, not you pathetic whining saps that have done nothing but cry for SOE to rollback "your" game for the past 4 years.
Originally posted by mdolsen Originally posted by salvaje Originally posted by miagisan ego much? I think you have reiterated this point....oh...forget it, i lost count lol. And besides, even if they reinstated you said you wouldn't come back unless XXX and XXX etc were fired, so unless your getting desperate this won't change
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously: 1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE. 2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired. 3. Ditto for Chris Cao. There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Considering you'll never get any of these things, and you've made the same point 8 million times, don't you think it's time to actually give it a rest and find something more productive to do with your time? It is therefore also time for the people at war with the veterans to give it up and get over it as well; the game is a failure and won't get better until and unless SOE shows they actually learned from their mistakes. The "get over it" goes both ways, which I believe was/is the point if this thread.
Fans if the SWG NGE should "get over it" that their game is a failure and they can't sell a bad game developed badly by SOE.
Originally posted by Darkened Originally posted by salvaje Simply put, what the fanbois, SOE, and their lackeys on the "senate" need to understand is that 200K+ of us are gone. We left BECAUSE of the NGE, and there isn't anything they can POSSIBLY add to the NGE, no matter HOW many Devs they hire, even if they come out with a "chapter" a WEEK that will EVER bring us back. We aren't coming back. Get used to the tiny (and shrinking) populations on your servers. There is nothing you can say or do, short of re-instating our game (and that might not even do it) that will bring us back. At this point, why should we settle for ANYTHING short of that, having held out this long? We are gone. Get over it.
Pub9 Master Scout/Rifleman/Marksman/Brawler/Fencer here. Your game is never coming back, it might just be me, but I wasn't aware that 4 years worth of whining would bring PreCU back. There is nothing you can say or do to change that. SOE doesn't give a rats ass about you or any other players that played at release or upto the CU or NGE. Held out? so your own poorly formed expectations are SOE's fault as well? how rich. Lackeys on the senate? holy christ I won't even dignify that with a response, your a lost cause mate. News flash chief, you played the game for a period of time in a past incarnation, most NGE players have more "veteran" time invested into the game than you ever did or ever will, however those of us that actually stuck with the game and kept on playing are the real vets, not you pathetic whining saps that have done nothing but cry for SOE to rollback "your" game for the past 4 years. Talk about a false sense of self entitlement. If you read the posts of many of the senators, you would know that many of them ARE lackeys. Not all, but the vast majority.
Simply put, what the fanbois, SOE, and their lackeys on the "senate" need to understand is that 200K+ of us are gone. We left BECAUSE of the NGE, and there isn't anything they can POSSIBLY add to the NGE, no matter HOW many Devs they hire, even if they come out with a "chapter" a WEEK that will EVER bring us back. We aren't coming back. Get used to the tiny (and shrinking) populations on your servers. There is nothing you can say or do, short of re-instating our game (and that might not even do it) that will bring us back. At this point, why should we settle for ANYTHING short of that, having held out this long? We are gone. Get over it.
Your game is never coming back, it might just be me, but I wasn't aware that 4 years worth of whining would bring PreCU back.
There is nothing you can say or do to change that.
SOE doesn't give a rats ass about you or any other players that played at release or upto the CU or NGE.
Held out? so your own poorly formed expectations are SOE's fault as well? how rich.
Lackeys on the senate? holy christ I won't even dignify that with a response, your a lost cause mate.
News flash chief, you played the game for a period of time in a past incarnation, most NGE players have more "veteran" time invested into the game than you ever did or ever will, however those of us that actually stuck with the game and kept on playing are the real vets, not you pathetic whining saps that have done nothing but cry for SOE to rollback "your" game for the past 4 years.
Comments
Any gaming company that dares try to repeat the mistakes of SWG CU and NGE will be doomed to failure, SWG is only just starting to recover from those monumental changes that had a largely negative effect on the playerbase (I'm refering to the players that did prefer the CU, nobody liked the NGE) and it seems that SoE has at least learnt their lesson well and is beginning to attone for it by basing their publish plans directly on player feedback.
That may be....but i have to agree.....the NGE and SWG are really too far along to save (by save i mean get back to the original numbers/population). The current devs are doing a much better job than their last 2 predecessors, but sometimes it's too little too late. Once in a while i log back into my home on valcyn. only to be reminded that the population is decimated. I honestly think the only way to truly save this game IF they keep the NGE is to merge servers. 80% of the servers are at the lowest population they have been in years. There's no suger coating it. Right now you have 4-5 decently populated servers, the rest are barren waste lands. This is what keeps me from staying subbed. I could deal with the crappy NGE, the destruction of crafting (i was a chef....), and the blandness, IF the population was there.
arguing with a corporate fanboi is like teaching special education.
even if you teach him something...at the end of the day he's still retarded.
In the end you are going to have it happen anyway. For all the spin they put on it...the game has lost subscribers in numbers that would make even Blizzard cringe. I'm not saying its about to die...but with WAR and AoC coming out and the possibility for a new Star Wars MMO, this game is a dead fish in the water just waiting for someone to scoop it out now. The already tested players left are very likely to try one of the new MMO's on the horizon, and you can bet plenty of them are leaving for them. Both games stand to have a great deal of polish and content to compete with WoW, and both companies are going to be very keen on listening to their players.
The fact is, of all the MMO's out there....this one really is on its last legs. Games like Vanguard and Hellgate get bad hype too, but they aren't niche IP's. The only thing selling SWG right now is the Star Wars IP....and on THAT level it will only appeal to a very small number of people. Pre-Cu / CU it appealed on a Sci-Fi sandbox level, and that opened many doors that were closed in its face before. It doesn't have that now. So while Vanguard gets hated on....there are still very large numbers of players trying it out all the time because its corner of the market is founded on an appeal that more people like. Even if it sucked more than SWG....it would see more players because Star Wars has the habit of being considered nerdy even amongst the nerd (lol, I know I know....its stupid. But its also true.)
Finally, most vets are asking for Classic servers. That would have no affect on your servers...outside of players potentially leaving it to enjoy ours. Wanna know something? If that many people think its better...perhaps you could try it too. In the end, at least the population is there. What good is the star wars universe when its a wasteland?
you answered your own question
LA for some reason refuses to do this, and it's not the first time LA has had some questionable decision about their games. Look at KOTOR 2.....Bioware was originally working on it, then (now this is speculation if i remember correctly) didn't want to work with LA anymore due to them being too controlling with the direction of the game. LA then decided to go with pandemic, who released KOTOR2 buggy and incomplete due to LA's pressuring to get the game out
Any gaming company that dares try to repeat the mistakes of SWG CU and NGE will be doomed to failure, SWG is only just starting to recover from those monumental changes that had a largely negative effect on the playerbase (I'm refering to the players that did prefer the CU, nobody liked the NGE) and it seems that SoE has at least learnt their lesson well and is beginning to attone for it by basing their publish plans directly on player feedback.
That may be....but i have to agree.....the NGE and SWG are really too far along to save (by save i mean get back to the original numbers/population). The current devs are doing a much better job than their last 2 predecessors, but sometimes it's too little too late. Once in a while i log back into my home on valcyn. only to be reminded that the population is decimated. I honestly think the only way to truly save this game IF they keep the NGE is to merge servers. 80% of the servers are at the lowest population they have been in years. There's no suger coating it. Right now you have 4-5 decently populated servers, the rest are barren waste lands. This is what keeps me from staying subbed. I could deal with the crappy NGE, the destruction of crafting (i was a chef....), and the blandness, IF the population was there.
ack TOM CRUISE ATTACKS! :P
As much as I hate SOE , the game wont shutdown any time soon. It may be on life support but It will stay that way. If for no other reason other than arrogance. The main reason is just another game to beef up the station pass.
you answered your own question
LA for some reason refuses to do this, and it's not the first time LA has had some questionable decision about their games. Look at KOTOR 2.....Bioware was originally working on it, then (now this is speculation if i remember correctly) didn't want to work with LA anymore due to them being too controlling with the direction of the game. LA then decided to go with obsidian, who released KOTOR2 buggy and incomplete due to LA's pressuring to get the game out
That could be due simply to the fact that larger companies do not rely on any one outlet for primary income. Think of it from the Trump view, if you own if you are a parent company to a few thousand different markets then no single market has to be overly profitable to ensure you still make billions. In the end LA makes its largest money from merchandise and movies...they probably do some moonlight FX for others on the side as well. The MMO need only make a pittance, enough to keep it running and deliver something at all.
Frankly, in the end, its SOE that takes the losses in that regard by having to cut staff to compensate for their own bottom line...since I'm very certain LA's bottom line is secured in contract. The fact remains though that SOE were the ones to do the convincing to begin with...and if they managed to do it that time they can do it again. Regardless of reason, no financial body is going to ignore profit potential. The only thing one needs to do to in these situations is guarantee this profit potential (most business deals work with low risk / high reward, though in the case of mega high reward it sometimes happens that a company will invest with high risk so long as the concept has a strong force leading it) and LA would bend.
There is a very SIMPLE way to guarantee profit potential here. Stage the ideal to the players, and get serious player feedback and use that market research to decide on a course which could garner the potential. Even the most hateful vets would open up with a quickness if SOE actually stood up and said "we suck, and we need your help. Lets talk, and this time....we are going to really do something about this problem based on what you guys have to say." If you pool a thousand people and see a 50-75% success in popular opinion then what you have is a far stronger case than they likely presented in the NGE discussion. Because, we all know that the NGE discussion HAD to be a higher risk case than what I'm prescribing. No guarantee, just pure speculation based on other market success stories.
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Hahahahahaaaaaahaha
Oh that was the greatest thanks for the laugh.
Wakeup call time, No matter how big your ego maybe and no matter how much you think your hurting SOE your demands will never happen.
Oh and news flash when your dead and gone the world will continue on...
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Hahahahahaaaaaahaha
Oh that was the greatest thanks for the laugh.
Wakeup call time, No matter how big your ego maybe and no matter how much you think your hurting SOE your demands will never happen.
Oh and news flash when your dead and gone the world will continue on...
We've hurt them alright. They are begging for us to come back.Any lifeline for the NGE isn't coming from us.
Ok, this phrase is why I roll my eyes at SWG vets. This is a game, a form of entertainment and in the end nothing that is really important in life. You make it sound like campaigning for human rights, or fighting against poverty.
Companies will discard player bases if it is in their best interests, they exist to make money and if they perceive the opportunity to make more money they will change everything. NGE failed, so? When the contract runs out the servers will be shut down and the resources moved to something more profitable. If anything you should have learned not to put your emotional well being into the hands of a corporation, because in the end they don't care. This isn't just Sony; it's Vivendi, EA, Microsoft etc. you are valuable as long as you pay and if they feel they can get two subscriptions to your one by changing things they will.
NGE didn't work as they hoped, but that's also the way this stuff works. You win some and you loose some, but it didn't help that there are two corporate entities at play with this or any future Star Wars game.
Who is it for anyone to tell the OP to get over it and go outside. I own 2 buisness's and have a family and still had enough time in the day to fully enjoy SWG in the pre-cu times. It would be a travisty to just let it go, like some are saying. SOE is a shaddy dev company that needs to be exposed everyday to the gaming public on how low down their buisness practices are.
While i don't look down on anyone that statred playing SWG after the NGE, i do take offense with the so called NGE vet fanboi's that come here and try to convince us that the game is better and is heading in the right direction, when they just know that's not true.
It's kinda funny that i can get on a you know what server and use the search, and find more people playing than i can on the SOE servers.That should tell SOE and their fanbois alot about what era of the game most people want to play in.
I also do believe that once these new crop of games come out, SOE will have no choice but to add classic severs or shut down. Add in the fact that if Bioware is making a new SW MMO, you can surely forget about SWG staying around even on life support.
Even if it's not a SW mmo, you have to take into account new sci fi MMO's coming out like stargate and earthrise, which if anyone has read about it, will be a open sandbox game like SW pre-cu was. Either way SWG is done, and i will tell everyone that asks me about it, to stay as far away from it, unless the game goes back to pre-cu.
We're asking for CLASSIC SERVERS, like other games have done. Implying the non-classic ones can stay for all we care. If they have any backup procedures at all, they COULD restore Bloodfin to Classic Bloodfin, for instance (ANY normal company saves its backups at least 5 years). This would not harm those who choose NGE in any way, shape or form.
And even if we'd have to start all over on clean servers, a lot of us WOULD come back. A poll lately on another forum suggests 42% of that particular group of former SWG players would be interested.
As to Smedley: he's a great talker, but he promised us after the CU they'd never make such large changes again too. He has stated it was a 'mistake' to implement the NGE, but never once has he appologised to the player base, either for the way they implemented the CU/NGE, or for the way they treated us in their own forums or in the media.
Linna
I dont miss the oint friend i was referring more to the so called vets that label all present players as 15 yar olds or idiots! these are the people asking for the whole game to be rolled back so that we see what it's like.
And this one's to Gishgeron, friend if classic servers were brought into play, i would cancel my present account gladly just to get a chance to play on it......believe me i feel let down because i never had the chance to experience the old swg.....just to get a chance to see what all the fuss is about i would gladly delete every char on every game i have.
=p
Linna
Unfortunately, they keep making the same mistakes. It seems they haven't learned a thing which is why the game is no longer recovering.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I'm sure many would. I'm sure that most would enjoy it, or at least enjoy the sense of world and community it creates. To be able to live in a world that felt alive is sometimes worth more than just playing a fun game.
They have the power to make a good case to LA and do it. They need only follow the plan I shot out up there and its done. When making business adjustments and discussions one needs to have proof and information (preferrably in the form of graphs) to make the point stand. They can do this. They can win back the trust of their former players with very few steps, and very little investment at all. No matter how mad we are, in the end we are still human and humans are never incapable of forgiving so long as we are given great reason to.
Even Sav would be willing, I know he rants...but its not because his mind is in the wrong place. He wants Smed fired BECAUSE the man never took the time to listen to us or even try to meet us in the middle. If he really stood up and admitted he needed us, and that he was GOING to try and give the players what they wanted I'm sure he would give him a chance at least.
But that isn't what SOE does, I'm afraid. This whole issue exists, not because there is nothing they can do, but because they want to do nothing. I do honestly think that Smed and his cronies just do not want to admit that they cannot make the game good enough, and that they need us to help them with it. Pride has been the poison of more than one empire though, so it doesn't shock me at all to think the Smed just won't let go of it.
Smed has to go before I could ever have a "baseline of trust" in SOE again. Period. Classic servers aren't enough anymore for me. Others probably don't take as hard a line as I do, but that's just my feeling on this.
The captain of the ship is ultimately responsible for the actions of the crew.
While I in no way want to mitigate the effect of the NGE or even the CURB the fact is that both were done in reaction to the large exodus of players from SWG to WoW. Many casual players left early, and around summer of 2005 many hard core players had maxed out their Jedi and begun to move on, like myself.
While I mataintained two active accounts up until the NGE launched, I had not put more than a couple hours into the game a week.
The NGE was put into place to try and attract FPS players primarily because the vast majority of traditional MMO players had migrated to WoW. It wasn't until early 2006 that EQ2 was able to lure back a significant number, however, given the original subscription models for SWG called for 1,000,000 players, nothing could have made the original SWG capable of that jump of 750,000 people.
Now, if a Star Wars game was released today, given the gigantic influx of people who are not traditional MMO players who subscribe to WoW, it could likely top 1 million, but LA would want 12 million in order to claim to be the biggest western MMO, regardless, Star Wars Galaxies could never have the polish or feel of WoW which would appeal to brand new players.
That's my "enough is enough" because SWG is my favorite past played MMO but likewise nothing short of a classic Pre-CU fresh start server would bring me back.
SOE and their games are to the mmo genre what the Yugo was to the automotive industry.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Considering you'll never get any of these things, and you've made the same point 8 million times, don't you think it's time to actually give it a rest and find something more productive to do with your time?
SOE and their games are to the mmo genre what the Yugo was to the automotive industry.
Indeed; they feel it was a problem of communication, not one of ethics. This is why they keep making the same mistakes, and they keep failing, even though they no longer "suprise us."
Until they stop NGEing the game, they won't get anywhere.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Your game is never coming back, it might just be me, but I wasn't aware that 4 years worth of whining would bring PreCU back.
There is nothing you can say or do to change that.
SOE doesn't give a rats ass about you or any other players that played at release or upto the CU or NGE.
Held out? so your own poorly formed expectations are SOE's fault as well? how rich.
Lackeys on the senate? holy christ I won't even dignify that with a response, your a lost cause mate.
News flash chief, you played the game for a period of time in a past incarnation, most NGE players have more "veteran" time invested into the game than you ever did or ever will, however those of us that actually stuck with the game and kept on playing are the real vets, not you pathetic whining saps that have done nothing but cry for SOE to rollback "your" game for the past 4 years.
Talk about a false sense of self entitlement.
The terms on which I'd consider coming back, as I've stated previously:
1. Classic servers are ONLINE. Not promised, ONLINE.
2. John Smedley has been fired. Not reassigned, fired.
3. Ditto for Chris Cao.
There are others, but those are the three non negotiable demands.
Considering you'll never get any of these things, and you've made the same point 8 million times, don't you think it's time to actually give it a rest and find something more productive to do with your time?
It is therefore also time for the people at war with the veterans to give it up and get over it as well; the game is a failure and won't get better until and unless SOE shows they actually learned from their mistakes. The "get over it" goes both ways, which I believe was/is the point if this thread.
Fans if the SWG NGE should "get over it" that their game is a failure and they can't sell a bad game developed badly by SOE.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I am over it both as a ex fanbois and vet....Do i win?
Your game is never coming back, it might just be me, but I wasn't aware that 4 years worth of whining would bring PreCU back.
There is nothing you can say or do to change that.
SOE doesn't give a rats ass about you or any other players that played at release or upto the CU or NGE.
Held out? so your own poorly formed expectations are SOE's fault as well? how rich.
Lackeys on the senate? holy christ I won't even dignify that with a response, your a lost cause mate.
News flash chief, you played the game for a period of time in a past incarnation, most NGE players have more "veteran" time invested into the game than you ever did or ever will, however those of us that actually stuck with the game and kept on playing are the real vets, not you pathetic whining saps that have done nothing but cry for SOE to rollback "your" game for the past 4 years.
Talk about a false sense of self entitlement.
If you read the posts of many of the senators, you would know that many of them ARE lackeys. Not all, but the vast majority.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Your game is never coming back, it might just be me, but I wasn't aware that 4 years worth of whining would bring PreCU back.
There is nothing you can say or do to change that.
SOE doesn't give a rats ass about you or any other players that played at release or upto the CU or NGE.
Held out? so your own poorly formed expectations are SOE's fault as well? how rich.
Lackeys on the senate? holy christ I won't even dignify that with a response, your a lost cause mate.
News flash chief, you played the game for a period of time in a past incarnation, most NGE players have more "veteran" time invested into the game than you ever did or ever will, however those of us that actually stuck with the game and kept on playing are the real vets, not you pathetic whining saps that have done nothing but cry for SOE to rollback "your" game for the past 4 years.
Talk about a false sense of self entitlement.
NGE is only a little over 2 years old