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EverQuest II: SOE / Live Gamer Deal Explained
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
Today we learned that SOE will be replacing their Station Exchange program, a program that helps players sell in-game items for real life cash (RMT), with a third party company called Live Gamer. Managing Editor Jon Wood spoke to both SOE President and CEO John Smedley and Live Gamer Inc Co-Founder and President Andrew Schneider to try to clear up misconceptions that people might have about the announcement.
Back in December, MMORPG.com published an article titled, “Live Gamer RMT Sales Partner With SOE, Funcom and Others”. In that article, we learned that Sony Online Entertainment, along with Funcom and a number of other MMO publishers had partnered with a company called Live Gamer Inc., a company that provides RMT (real money transactions) services.
From the original article:
“During a brief conversation this afternoon, Courtney Simmons, the Director of Corporate Communications for SOE, told MMORPG.com that while SOE was indeed a partner, “to what extent [the company will be involved] has not been determined.” During the same conversation, Simmons pointed out that SOE’s current Station Exchange runs at a ratio of 28 non-RMT servers to the two that currently sanction the practice.”
Today, we learned the extent of the partnership in a press release issued by SOE:
“Live Gamer, the premier operator of a publisher-supported marketplace for real money trading of virtual items, has entered into an agreement to utilize Sony Online Entertainment’s (SOE) Station Exchange technology, the industry’s first proven, fully legitimate platform for secure buying and selling of virtual items. The resulting new, independent service, called Live Gamer Exchange, combines the Web-based accessibility of Station Exchange with Live Gamer’s proprietary Wall-Street-developed in-game application, giving players a flexible and convenient way to access the virtual marketplace anytime, anywhere.”
The press release goes on to say that the partnership will see current Station Exchange customers being migrated to the new Live Gamer system, called Live Gamer Exchange. During a phone interview on the subject, Sony Online Entertainment President and CEO John Smedley stated quite strongly that the Live Gamer partnership will be limited to the current Exchange servers in EQII only, and that there are no plans to spread beyond that. When asked if other games would become active in the partnership, Smedley answered that they are starting with EverQuest II and will see how it goes from there.
Read the whole article here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Maybe now, You can ask Soe, if thier planning on changing thier Terms of service and other various 7 or 8 page documents that we all page through to get to the game ( I can't recall what it's called exactly)
Previously it's worth various bans and possibly account losses to sell or buy anything with your account. The same goes for most games actually - Is RTM going to be legal from now on, Or only legal through this company, And still illegal for anyone else?
Etc. Etc.
-B-
I doubt they'll change their terms of service, EULA, or anything else for that matter.
This is just another in a long line of attmepts from SOE to get more money from players than they already pay. I personally would never play on a server or play a game that allowed any sort of RMT by the actualy company.
Why would they change it now? They have had Station Exchange for some time. Nothing new here except the method it sounds like.
Abolishing RMT activities has been found to be impossible so far, for every mmog company. No matter how many mass bans of both buyers or sellers, it continues to exist. Some game companies have come to realize this.
So now its simply a question of, do people use a questionable third party that could get you banned or use a legitimate one that's sanctioned and guaranteed in service. as well as paying the people who actually run the game as well as its players rather than a third party who could care less what happens to the game in the long run.
No matter who sanctions it or not its going to exist. you can denounce something all you want but it ultimately does nothing.
Why doesn't SOE [or any publisher, for that matter] just have servers where they sell the currency themselves?! If I ran a publisher, I'd look at the stats [28:2] and open 1 server in 15 as an RMT server. Hell, I'd even offer free character transfers TO that server [NEVER FROM that server, however!] That way you can start on a "real" server and if you find you advance too slow or whatever, you can transfer to the RMT server. If you're doing it to 'keep up with friends" - no problem - they can transfer their characters, too. Maybe even allow a character over-write when transferring? Or a stats but not items over-write, so you could play your real character on the real server and transfer it as it advances, but not wipe out what was purchased on the RMT server? Cut out the middleman and farmers!
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These suits must think that most of us were born yesterday. This is clearly about extracting maximum revenue from customers and nothing more. Period. Why they cannot just be honest about this I don't know. It's not like it isn't obvious and yet they dance about with a lot of baloney about doing this for us.
In a perfect world a smart business would actually think about its customers first and as a result see the profits roll in. This is a lesson yet to be learned by most of them, including SOE.
This is about a huge pie they are hungry for. It's an enormous market measured today in millions of dollars and they want that pie - all of it. It is about that and nothing else.
It's funny how this was so wrong as to merit inclusion in the EULA, numerous bans, etc. until a means to derive profit from the practice could be found. Now like magic it goes from badness to goodness.
Imagine that... lol
Nobody ever seems to ask the question, if people want to purchase their way past certain parts of a game, maybe the game needs fixing? If people want to pay others to play a game for them, what is wrong with a game they would actually pay someone else to play for them? If I need to buy gold to save time so I can get to play somewhere else in Norrath something is wrong isn't it? It stopped being a game somewhere and became a chore I am willing to pay real money to get past. What is wrong with that picture?
I can hardly wait to see Smedley and the gang run amok with micro-transactions next. He is very excited about this new money maker. He seems to talk a lot more about money making than high quality entertainment providing. I wonder what is up with that? I think someone is missing the boat. In fact to SOE's great detriment I know they are and I believe this will eventually be their downfall which clearly has been in full swing for some time now sadly.
First we got to pay for a subpar magelo/alla, etc. with "Station Players" which is almost as useless as the pricey and failed EverQuest Legends was. Then EQ2 folks got lucky and won a couple of anything goes servers with real money for ingame things sanctioned. Then we both got to have a card game inserted into our online RPG which is really more a vehicle to sell loot cards for ingame toys like various buffing imps, fast mounts, cool auras and other window dressings. Not many people actually play Legends of Norrath. Just pop in and see how many players are logged in at any given time. No, the card game is a thinly veiled way to get EverQuest and EverQuest II players to blow money on ingame junk. They even have cards for this game drop off mobs in the gameworlds. Just slightly out of character? Who cares of course. It wasn't about enhancing EverQuest. It was about making more money in yet another most obnoxious way.
Maybe most people leave SOE because of gold farmers and perhaps the attendent constant ingame spam from them. However, I would venture to bet that this obnoxious unbridled marketeering is hurting their games almost as much. It makes players resent them bitterly, most of whom would never bother to post about as I have just done here. Instead, being more sensible than I perhaps, they will simply vote with their wallets and take their gaming dollars elsewhere. The more this goes on, the more I am inclined to want to join them.
It's too bad as I loved EverQuest faults and all for many years but its hardly recognizable anymore for what it once was. I hate the damned card game, gold selling, economy wrecking, ingame ads, microtransactions, etc. making their way into games today. I really, really just hate it. Why can't 50 bucks and 15 more a month be enough??? Why??? Guild Wars has proven even the $15. a month has got to be nearly entirely profit for any of the more successful games with large numbers of players. In their greed these buggers spoil the very thing that is the foundation of their business and I think that is going to catch up with them.
He who hesitates is lost.
"Smedley referred to Live Gamer as a kind of “white knight” in the battle against farmers"
Its still no reason to let your MMOs become the "White Elephant Sales".
That joker was kinda funny... Im probly going to cancel my EQ2 account as I havent had the desire to play it in some time... Pirates of the Burning Sea being more fun.
If they wanted to end the whole gold farming issue they can/could. There is a couple games on the market that gold farming does not exist. The couple i think of off hand would be Asheron's Call and Cabal (EU).
There might end up being gold sellers for Cabal but if you've ever played it you'd understand it would be fairly fruitless to do so. Because throughout the first 50 levels of play I never once had a short need for gold and had to farm. The creatures themselves drop plenty throughout the course of play. Plus it has a system that is what most players call a "jackpot" system. Where 1 in 100~ creatures you kill has a possibility of dropping 10 to 20 times its normal drop in gold.
Asheron's Call may not be that popular but even in its hayday people never sold gold online, but rather items found in the game. But mainly gold in Asheron's Call is abounds of what anyone could need.
So in order to cartel this sort of thing in other games I can simply say they need to stop being so stingy with the gold drops in the lower levels. Even institute a "jackpot" system that would really help a lot. If there is no reason for people to want to buy gold then the sellers have no business. Thus gold sellers will stop fairly quickly.
Making people farm for gold is just another annoying timesink that SOE loves to do to people and that has become to much a ongoing fad amongst most MMOs today. Of course at higher levels this isn't an issue in most games. Its mainly those lower levels, but it would be nice to have an abundance of currency so that people can try out different things and not have to worry about spending to much so as to have enough for later on for your next set of gear etc.
But of course $OE is never going to figure this out... ( i say this in spite, in hopes they will)
Someone would expect them to ignore RMT and fight speculation instead (the main thing RMT does).
RMT hardly affect any game outside of 2 points:
- Speculations (and they are very nasty here)
- Camping spots (if you have instanced, you are immune to that already).
Again, a compagny which cares for the well beeing of the game, would find ways to prevent and stop speculation. You buy, you keep policy has to emerge.
PS: Adding a flag on each item is easy. This flag go away if anyone purchase the item, so you can't sell it twice...ways to restore this flag may, or not, exist (earn millions of XP while wearing the item for example).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Lyolas, I agree with you - SOE should just be honest about this upfront. They should make 2 versions of the game which run on two types of servers - P2P and F2P. The F2P could have all the transactions - and SOE should do the transactions themselves, not allow goldspammers to profit from them. The P2P would be the "premium" game and would probably still have problems with goldspammers, though I think allowing one-way character transfers would help that somewhat [as explained above].
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i just dont get it.
I understand teh live gamer program and how they make revenue and i understand the somewhat subtle differences between this and teh existing station exchange.
However, if the principle gamer related benefit is to tackle gold farming I cannot see how live gamer will have a significant impact. Gold farming is in just about every game possible and whether you like it or not, unnless you ban specific trade aspects in a game, it will continue to exist and flourish.
Other than incite the usual protest of SOE using this as another money making venture from players above and beyond subs, I dont see the big impact here.
To err is human....to play is divine
Do you mean a "Bind on acquire"-type thing?
Personally, I prefer a "Bind on Equip" system, but I can see where that is abusible...
Do you mean "Bind on Acquire" for items from RMT shop only? That would be an interesting idea.
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You can only trade with guildies. This includes gear, coin, trade skill materials, everything. Trades can be done via guild bank only just as an added layer of scrutiny perhaps. You can only be eligible to trade within your guild after being a member of said guild for a minimum of 30 days, maybe longer, maybe 45 or even 60 days. Existent rules for guild formation remain unchanged assuming that forming a guild is not a 1 person affair in whatever the game is, etc.
Just a thought that popped into my head. Consider that like a brainstorming thing. In other words, don't shoot me. I am just tossing that out as an idea without thinking a lot about it. On the surface it would seem to work although it does introduce an element of inconvenience that I would probably argue is worth it considering it puts gold sellers out of business.
How many people would drop their guild for say 45 days and join a gold sellers guild to make a buy?
How about no trading until mid levels on top of that? This would assume some way for your main to pass down twinks your main aquires personally for your alts but you could not buy them gold, items, etc. You get them yourself, they get them themselves, or they/you do without twinks.
Of course, this removes the player economy largely and there is no longer a need for an auction house or bazaar. I don't know if I like that much but I think I like it a lot better than being spammed and having to play in completely ruined economies with rampant inflation and devalued currency, etc.
Could something like this be the lesser of evils? Somehow I doubt we will ever know and this is because there is no money to be made in fixing the games vs milking them.
He who hesitates is lost.
I just realized a loophole after posting that. Alts. People would just make alts and put them into gold seller's guilds to make the buys, etc.
I suppose the fix for that is items, etc. cannot be passed to toons outside of the guild. That means money cannot be either or it doesn't work.
This might actually be a good thing in terms of promoting social interdependency, grouping, being active within one's guild, etc.
And if you prefer unguilded solo that is fine too. You can go solo yer own stuff then!
Actually I think someone above touched on the real answer to this and I think to some degree it has already been done in UO and elsewhere:
Just sell people premade toons of max level in full raid gear. Sell them thier epic weapons too. Sell them all the ingame items and currency they want for real money. Micro-transaction everything in the game world. Allow me to purchase the entire thing fully preplayed and won and done with nothing missing so I save maximum time and pass go, collect 2 billion and win. This way I can impress all my friends with my uber toon that I worked so hard to develop and am so highly skilled in playing.
This is what a lot of people seem to want anyway. Give it to them. Want to make lots of micro trans cash Mr. Smedley? Well, there you go. Sell out now. Sell it all. Leave nothing for the farmers to farm or sell. Just sell everything. Why fool around?
The only alternative worth doing in my opinion is to make a game so good that people don't want to buy advancement in it because they would miss the fun of playing to get there.
He who hesitates is lost.
If I read this rather longwinded say of Smed and Co right, it all stays the same, just the RMT from the Exchange servers is now outsourced? Hardly a reason to be quite concerned, since it seems for the players its only a change for formalities.
There is a glimpse of understanding in one of the statements, however. Goldselling can never be succesfully forbidden. But like everything technically forbidden but practically widespread, it does more damage when out of control. Its the same stupid idea as in the age of Prohibition of Alcohol. Of course everyone drank, but now there was the mafia and crime connected with it. The only way to take out the farming is making a legal Money Trade system in MMOs. It would be the only realistic policy to deal with it. Most of us trust in free market in RL, so why NOT in a MMO?
Why must we have game-communism of controlled markets and sales? I say open it all up and the market with balance itself out, which includes to let everyone sell his money for whatever. Just set an offical trader to make it save, and open it all up. A percentage of the trade goes to the MMO owner handling the deal, like Ebay does with RL trade, and everyone is happy.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I can see from the posts here that many of you don't play games where RMT goes on. (sanctioned RMTs that is) These include, but aren't limited to, EQ2 (Station Exchange), Project Entropia (actual currency translation value), Eve Online (ISK for game time cards), and nearly every 'free' (read free to play/ microtransaction) MMO on the market. In the free-to-play/microtrans games, most either sell special items, many tradable, or actual currency for a fee. Some sell special coins, which can then be traded for items or sold to other players for in-game currency. I've played many, and some are so unbalanced it's not even funny. (Ie those that pony up $5, $10, or more a month receive such a huge advantage a free player can't compete.)
As a member of the EQ2 Station Exchange community, I find that despite the 'farming' for plat, it doesn't seem to hurt the economy at all. There are more people on that top priced mount and set up with all the high priced items you can buy. I would invite anyone that plays EQ2 to try out playing on the Exchange servers. I find that the community there is more reasonable and helpful than communities on some of the regular servers. I know many players there that don't participate in the RMT market.
One of the many issues as a developer is meeting player's demands. SOE took a poll shortly after EQ2 came out about how many players would use a sanctioned service for a RMT service. (The results are here: http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?month=052005&id=474. This is from May 2005.) The numbers were impressive (to me, at least). A much larger number responded than has ever played on the Exchange servers responded that they would use a sanctioned site allowing RMT. They created SE to meet player demands.
I have found that many of the complaints and accussations about companies and the unsanctioned gold farmers to be completely without merit. Why, you might ask, does this person know more than I do about it? I don't. I know as much as everyone else about the companies internal records. What I do know is what I see on the markets on the games I play. What I do know is how to use a calculator. Most of the accussations are nothing other than Urban Legend and conspiracy theories.
I could go on, but I don't see much point. I only have one thing to ask, though. Why do you dislike (maybe even hate) the concept?
Now that I've had my say about the whining I've seen on this post, maybe some real discussion can go on...
As a player on the Exchange community, my concerns are shared by many there. How will this effect my ability to make transactions? Will the move be seemless? Will the same interfaces be used and just have management transferred? What will the fee structure be like for using the service? Will it be more expensive for the seller, or cheaper?
I know I'm in the minority that acutally use the service on EQ2. The Bazaar has one of the highest player populations, though. When all other servers get merged, The Bazaar will still be there.
Oh, and another thing: you need to reconsider what your 'real money' is. In this day and age, it's not much 'realer' than that plat and gold that it gets exchanged for.
Edit:
Uncus, you made a comment about a F2P or P2P service. EQ2 is a subscription based MMO. I don't ever see it going to this type of service as long as the subscription numbers stay in the 100k+ range. What SOE does have for EQ2 is seperate servers where sanctioned RMT is allowed. These are The Bazaar and Venekor. The Bazaar, as I mentioned above, is one of the most populated servers.
It is obvious you don't understand the market. Despite the fact that you may dislike RMT, the simple fact of the matter is that you are in the minority. This is a thriving online business, and SOE recognizes that many of their customers desire the ability to participate in RMT transactions. In reality, SOE is most definately thinking about its customers first. You're just mad because they aren't thinking about YOU first.
And they don't have to worry about balancing the amount of currency coming into the game, as it is all earned legitimately, as opposed to being "created from nothing" when someone buys gold from them directly.
RMT is crap, guess we need to wait on games like Jumpgate Evolution or Darkfall to fix this issue
( If you wonder why these games, because they are twitch based games, so you cant bot and farm
)
Greetz
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For those that are interested, here is another comment by John Smedley on gamasutra.com about the announcement. There is a really good warning to those that would use the overseas farmers to make transactions, too! Anyway, here's the article: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17268
I think what would happen is that each guild would then invite their own farmers. Uber guilds really have them already, they just don't trade/sell outside their guild usually.
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And they don't have to worry about balancing the amount of currency coming into the game, as it is all earned legitimately, as opposed to being "created from nothing" when someone buys gold from them directly.
But if the farmers annoy the rest of the population enough, there won't be a "rest of the population."If they feel the need to limit the currency, they could do exactly that - limit purchases per day or week or month.
I guess what I'm trying to do, without having ever played in an RMT game, is justify how it could cut down on farming and help the casual player "keep up", while still making a profit for the company.
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Making burglary legal and taxing it because other burglars are making money from it and it is oh SOOOO hard to police dosen't make burglary a good thing.
Does this make sense?
RMT is the death of these games in the long term, but the stupid arsed companies out there now are willing the slaughter the goose to get that golden egg so they just don't give a damn.
I have played SOE games since EQ1 since beta, and been a vocal supporter of their work since.
But no more.
I am finally done with them as a company, as I will be with any other dev that condones and/ or participates in RMT.