I thought you carebears loved killing 100 bunnies, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear and then taking the next quest and killing the 100 wolves, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 bears, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 goblins, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next question and killing 100 orcs, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 zombies, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 1 Lich King, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 trolls, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 1 Really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then an expansion pack is released and you do the same thing with a new boss. Eventually you get bored and you quit the game, and then maybe you come back and make another character and repeat the cycle, or perhaps you find a new game and repeat the cycle with slightly altered quests and monsters in a slightly altered world. How you find this cycle fulfilling i'll never know, but don't tell me its opinion that you like that sort of repetitive shit. Your choice of game is about as enjoyable to play as it is to read this post i've just made. Thats not opinion, its fact.
I actually enjoyed reading through that... It made me laff.
So... what was your point? That questing in mmorpgs is as entertaining as you post? Erm...
btw, it isnt 'fact' at all, it's just your opinion, but I think you know that already and just want to get into a fight.
You see, what you have done here is strip everything out of these games that actually makes them fun, probably because you don't see any of it due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I get the picture that you see yourself as some kind of bad ass 'hard-core' solo PvPer, so I don't think you would understand the pleasure of the building social networks and the co-operative play required in the pursuit of a shared goal. I don't think you probably understand the pleasure in the exploration of a world and the enjoyment of it's lore. You maybe havent experienced he achievement of 'winning' through it all with friends, the banter and humour that comes from working with people.
I may be wrong, but this is the impression you give out to me. If so, then that's your loss not mine.
I thought you carebears loved killing 100 bunnies, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear and then taking the next quest and killing the 100 wolves, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 bears, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 goblins, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next question and killing 100 orcs, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 zombies, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 1 Lich King, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 trolls, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 1 Really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then an expansion pack is released and you do the same thing with a new boss. Eventually you get bored and you quit the game, and then maybe you come back and make another character and repeat the cycle, or perhaps you find a new game and repeat the cycle with slightly altered quests and monsters in a slightly altered world. How you find this cycle fulfilling i'll never know, but don't tell me its opinion that you like that sort of repetitive shit. Your choice of game is about as enjoyable to play as it is to read this post i've just made. Thats not opinion, its fact.
I actually enjoyed reading through that... It made me laff.
So... what was your point? That questing in mmorpgs is as entertaining as you post? Erm...
btw, it isnt 'fact' at all, it's just your opinion, but I think you know that already and just want to get into a fight.
You see, what you have done here is strip everything out of these games that actually makes them fun, probably because you don't see any of it due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I get the picture that you see yourself as some kind of bad ass 'hard-core' solo PvPer, so I don't think you would understand the pleasure of the building social networks and the co-operative play required in the pursuit of a shared goal. I don't think you probably understand the pleasure in the exploration of a world and the enjoyment of it's lore. You maybe havent experienced he achievement of 'winning' through it all with friends, the banter and humour that comes from working with people.
I may be wrong, but this is the impression you give out to me. If so, then that's your loss not mine.
Why do I have to be a bad ass hard-core solo PvPer because I don't enjoy the repetitive quests that aren't quests at all, but jobs, in current day MMORPGs? Did you not read my posts about Asheron's Call quests and how they were actual quests rather than kill tasks? Don't get me wrong, I love PvP game worlds, as they're more exciting, more is at stake, and player interaction is at an all time high on them, but I don't like dieing, I prefer to go PKing in groups. That was the allure of Asheron's Call's pvp world, I could help my allegiance defend their leveling dungeons and their towns. I would call a successful raid the achievement of winning with friends. By the way, when I say raid, I don't mean going into a dungeon with a bunch of friends to kill an NPC boss monster, I mean going into a dungeon with a bunch of friends to kill another group of players who are as intelligent as myself in order to take that dungeon from them so that my friends and clanmates can use it.
In regards to the social aspect, I find that there is no social aspect in most grindfest MMORPGs, and I've never made any lasting friends from them. Most don't even require social interaction, and its just grouping to complete a quest or a group of quests. The people i've grouped with would hardly talk to me, less it was related to the game, there was no sense of accomplishment in completing a quest to kill X amount of Z monsters with some random people I had met in the game. Yet in the PvP games I had played, many of the people I had met would stay friends long after i'd stop playing the games.
Basically what i'm saying is that PvP worlds are much more fulfilling in every way even for a player like myself whose not a good PvPer and enjoys questing and such.
I think most of us dont really find the kill 100 bunnies missions, too exciting. But whats the alternative. What kind of missions do you like. Please post your ideas.
Scottc, I did read your post and then forgot about it, it wasnt in anyway interesting. AC is old, I was looking for new ideas. Stuff that had not been done before.
I thought you carebears loved killing 100 bunnies, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear and then taking the next quest and killing the 100 wolves, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 bears, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 goblins, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next question and killing 100 orcs, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 zombies, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 1 Lich King, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 100 trolls, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking the next quest and killing 1 Really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then taking that quest again and killing 1 really big uber boss, looting the better gear, turning in the quest, and collecting the better gear, and then an expansion pack is released and you do the same thing with a new boss. Eventually you get bored and you quit the game, and then maybe you come back and make another character and repeat the cycle, or perhaps you find a new game and repeat the cycle with slightly altered quests and monsters in a slightly altered world. How you find this cycle fulfilling i'll never know, but don't tell me its opinion that you like that sort of repetitive shit. Your choice of game is about as enjoyable to play as it is to read this post i've just made. Thats not opinion, its fact.
I actually enjoyed reading through that... It made me laff.
So... what was your point? That questing in mmorpgs is as entertaining as you post? Erm...
btw, it isnt 'fact' at all, it's just your opinion, but I think you know that already and just want to get into a fight.
You see, what you have done here is strip everything out of these games that actually makes them fun, probably because you don't see any of it due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I get the picture that you see yourself as some kind of bad ass 'hard-core' solo PvPer, so I don't think you would understand the pleasure of the building social networks and the co-operative play required in the pursuit of a shared goal. I don't think you probably understand the pleasure in the exploration of a world and the enjoyment of it's lore. You maybe havent experienced he achievement of 'winning' through it all with friends, the banter and humour that comes from working with people.
I may be wrong, but this is the impression you give out to me. If so, then that's your loss not mine.
Why do I have to be a bad ass hard-core solo PvPer because I don't enjoy the repetitive quests that aren't quests at all, but jobs, in current day MMORPGs?
I didnt say you had to be a bad ass anything, I said you were coming across as someone who saw themselves as one. Using terms like 'you carebears' and a generally insulting tone made you look like the kind of guy who bangs on and on and on about no game worth even exisitng unless it had FFA open PvP.
Tbh, I actually agree with the majority here on whats wrong with the 'kill 100 of X' 'quests'... I love questing with friends, but the post I responded to, the one I quote, attacks all kind of questing it seems.
You came across as attacking PvE play, and those that enjoying that style of play, and thats what I responded to.
In regards to the social aspect, I find that there is no social aspect in most grindfest MMORPGs, and I've never made any lasting friends from them.
Like I said originally, this is prolly due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I am still guilded with friends I met in Highkeep Pass in '99, and anyone who has camped a PGT knows what this means with regards to grinds.
Just because you choose to not play a co-operative social game, that dosent mean you have to be hostile or disparaging to those that do.
Most don't even require social interaction, and its just grouping to complete a quest or a group of quests.
I agree this has been the growing trend for the last few years in the genre, but it wasnt always so. There was a time that social skills, respect, and reputation were as important as playing skills and game knowledge to get along. A large, though not very vocal, chunk of the player base out there still plays in that same way. You just gotta find them.
Basically what i'm saying is that PvP worlds are much more fulfilling in every way even for a player like myself whose not a good PvPer and enjoys questing and such.
More fulfilling in your opinion. I can respect that. But when you start dictating that opinion as 'fact' at others, well thats when the problems start for me.
I personally hate PvP in MMORPGs, and the cultures on these servers, from the pitiful ganking, to the cowardly zone fighting, to the gang bully mentality of zerging, to the adolescent smack talk, destroys the game for me. I prefer to keep my PvP with games designed for that purpose, and let MMORPGs do what I consider they do best- Player versus Environment exploration and adventure.
I 100% agree that 'kill 100 X' quests are just poor design in a modern game though and hardly qualify for the title of 'quest'. If we can discuss that without attacking 'carebears' or whatever then I am sure we would actually agree on a lot.
If your not enjoying the combat in the game you shouldn't be fighting.
Games can implement different versions of collect items from here, or put a storyline behind why 12 is the exact number of wolves you need to kill but it is always the same thing.
Puzzles= googling the answer.
Exploring= only fun the first couple times, run to X area killing stuff that attacks you on the way.
Escort Missions= kill everything in this area rather than kill X number in this area.
In the end how fun the combat system not "how unique the quests are" will save the game. If you have fun mowing down enemies in a group it doesn't matter if your collecting 12 teeth or killing 50 trolls, its the combat system that your having fun with not the novelty of collecting something different.
If your doing anything with a point>click>wait>loot combat system I will be borned. Weather its hold an area for x minutes or escort some npc that talks the entire time.
You can reduce most quests to a combination of "Kill x monsters", "Find x", "Talk to x", "Protect x", "Gather x items". You can always make quests sound boring. The important thing is the package, the story, the outcome, the meaning related to the game world and the reward. No matter the quest it is always your perception that makes it fun or boring.
That being said I agree that most quests tend to be the same right now. The reason is because current MMOs are very static. You can only travel, fight and maybe build something. The game has to be easy so that every customer is happy and you should not forget that every quest will be done over a million times which means you can hardly tie it to the game world (quests that change the environment). Only these mundane quests fulfill the requirements.
To have quests that are more fun you have to change the game at a deeper level. Goal: Make the game harder, more dependend on player skill, more diverse and more dynamic.
- harder: bunnies should run around fast and are hard to catch. Trolls regenerate totally every 15 seconds. Giants stomp you into the ground if you get near them. Hydras get another firebreathing head if you kill a head and not the heart etc. Give a timeframe for killing bunnies. Your reward would be the number of bunnies you killed in the 3 minutes in gold coins. The goal is to make combat and quests more fun.
- player skill: manual dodge, manual aiming, npc models with hit zones, spells need some sort of combination to be invoked(mouse gestures, spell weaving with QWExQAY key block). Goal: More variaty means more tactics means more fun.
- more diverse: stuff to do: production, combat, economy, diplomacy, resource gathering, criminal activities, exploration, player vs player. Goal: as less repetition as possible
- more dynamic: hostile NPC nations popping up and attacking the world, player empires fighting each other, magic fields that distort the physics/attributes in a certain area (no gravity, magic doesnt work), other dimensions (like subspace) where a totally different set of skills are needed. Goal: As less repetition as possible, unknown future
Playing in such a world should be way more fun than in our normal EQ clones. If the game is fun people wouldn't mind a "kill 20 bunnies" quest once in a while. A world with so many options would have complex and interesting quests. I am also still waiting for true group based quests. Not just multiplying the hp and damage of the monsters by 5 for a 5 player group but truely teamwork based stuff (hitting all heads of a hydra at the same time, solving agility based puzzles, multiple tasks that have to be completed in a certain time frame).
The ideas are there. It just has to be implemented. The problem lies somewhere else: No developer wants to have more risk by trying out innovative ideas. A multimillion dollar project has more than enough risk even with very conservative goals (eq clone). We will have to wait until the WoW area gets saturated with clones so that similar games are simply doomed financially from the start.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I think most of us dont really find the kill 100 bunnies missions, too exciting. But whats the alternative. What kind of missions do you like. Please post your ideas.
My idea is not to make a timesink game.
Build a game that yoiu can level up with at a fast and easy pace, that you level up in more or less as a by product of exploring. That simply requires so little XP. You know, the same amount you need in any standard non subscription RPG.
Originally posted by Inf666 You can reduce most quests to a combination of "Kill x monsters", "Find x", "Talk to x", "Protect x", "Gather x items". You can always make quests sound boring. The important thing is the package, the story, the outcome, the meaning related to the game world and the reward. No matter the quest it is always your perception that makes it fun or boring.
Easily one of the best quotes I've seen all day, and one that I think more devs need to keep in mind.
The games we play today are less about activity and more about the reason for that activity. When you are killing 100 bunnies to gather their fur to make quivers so your archers have something to carry their arrows in while they are shooting your enemies from the keep walls, it's a much more fulfilling and urgent task than "because I asked you to."
Perception is more important to MMOs now than it ever has been in the past, and developers are missing that point.
Ive DL in last week perfect world,shaiya,last chaos,phoenix dynasty,archlord and fury and you know what.......?
There all the same, its unbelievble you start character take quest or walk 10mtrs and you start killing 10mobs for quests.
Almost all have copy lineage2 or took somethings from other wellknown mmorpgs, grafics are avarage looks they all been using engines from 5 years ago, there easy and boring, DEJAVU all over.
Thats how at this moment mmo's present and future will look like, copy from copy from copy with no original ideas.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
One (of very few things) I liked about Vanguard was a particular newbie quest where you were asked to go out and kill some of these oversized bees buzzing around nearby because they were annoying someone. (I don't remember the specific dialog). You weren't given a number, just a task to help someone out. The quest itself was of course very simple and took no thought at all, but the fact that someone finally took out that agonizing number was somehow a sign of relief! I'll just kill these bees till this guy can concentrate. Perhaps I'll even focus on the ones closest to him in the hopes I won't have to kill as many or that his concentration will improve more quickly. Know what I mean?
Anyway, to take this a step further, if there were some dynamics written in where over time the bee population diminished, perhaps that quest would be removed or altered until their population grew back again to the point of annoyance?
Ive DL in last week perfect world,shaiya,last chaos,phoenix dynasty,archlord and fury and you know what.......? There all the same, its unbelievble you start character take quest or walk 10mtrs and you start killing 10mobs for quests. Almost all have copy lineage2 or took somethings from other wellknown mmorpgs, grafics are avarage looks they all been using engines from 5 years ago, there easy and boring, DEJAVU all over. Thats how at this moment mmo's present and future will look like, copy from copy from copy with no original ideas.
What you need to do then... is have a look at those games where the graphics are in focus, games like AoC or Stargate, both in production, AoC soon to be released. There is also another nordic game coming but forgot the name right now.
Producers focus on different things. In my opinion a game like AoC did not focus on the gameplay, but wanted to give some of the best graphics around. Think they said 3000 animations for the character. While this is crazy and shows they are using dated technology, it is the best out there.
A game like Stargate is a little more confusing, they seem to take focus on the gameplay and have a reduced focus on the graphics (Ive seen some it, its ok, but far from great and innovative).
Shaiya didnt focus on graphics or gameplay, they clearly wanted a game out there as fast as possible, so the graphics are 5 years old, the gameplay 10 years. Its still an ok game though, if you dont care about adding new stuff.
I think you should only kill 100 bunnies if you are roleplaying a character who has a pathological hatred for all bunny kind.
However I also think that if you roleplay a character like this a GM should be paid to force you to kill bunnies perpetually.
In fact I think all MMORPGs should have a class called Bunnyslayer which belongs to an order of knights called the Blessed Order of Lagomorph Extermination where all your powers only work on bunnies and killing anything other than a bunny causes a gigantic pig you land on your head and kill you.
This class should exist even in games that are solely skill based.
Of course the only reason to play this class, other than a fantaical hatred of bunnies (and possibly other lagomorphs), is so that eventually you can get to the end game of raiding the lair of the Vorpal Bunny. Of course this would require a large amount of farming items of sharp pointy teeth protection and a long series of quests to unlock the holy hand grenade ultimate bunny slaying power.
As should be obvious this class is only for the most hardcore of people.
Comments
So... what was your point? That questing in mmorpgs is as entertaining as you post? Erm...
btw, it isnt 'fact' at all, it's just your opinion, but I think you know that already and just want to get into a fight.
You see, what you have done here is strip everything out of these games that actually makes them fun, probably because you don't see any of it due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I get the picture that you see yourself as some kind of bad ass 'hard-core' solo PvPer, so I don't think you would understand the pleasure of the building social networks and the co-operative play required in the pursuit of a shared goal. I don't think you probably understand the pleasure in the exploration of a world and the enjoyment of it's lore. You maybe havent experienced he achievement of 'winning' through it all with friends, the banter and humour that comes from working with people.
I may be wrong, but this is the impression you give out to me. If so, then that's your loss not mine.
I actually enjoyed reading through that... It made me laff.So... what was your point? That questing in mmorpgs is as entertaining as you post? Erm...
btw, it isnt 'fact' at all, it's just your opinion, but I think you know that already and just want to get into a fight.
You see, what you have done here is strip everything out of these games that actually makes them fun, probably because you don't see any of it due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I get the picture that you see yourself as some kind of bad ass 'hard-core' solo PvPer, so I don't think you would understand the pleasure of the building social networks and the co-operative play required in the pursuit of a shared goal. I don't think you probably understand the pleasure in the exploration of a world and the enjoyment of it's lore. You maybe havent experienced he achievement of 'winning' through it all with friends, the banter and humour that comes from working with people.
I may be wrong, but this is the impression you give out to me. If so, then that's your loss not mine.
Why do I have to be a bad ass hard-core solo PvPer because I don't enjoy the repetitive quests that aren't quests at all, but jobs, in current day MMORPGs? Did you not read my posts about Asheron's Call quests and how they were actual quests rather than kill tasks? Don't get me wrong, I love PvP game worlds, as they're more exciting, more is at stake, and player interaction is at an all time high on them, but I don't like dieing, I prefer to go PKing in groups. That was the allure of Asheron's Call's pvp world, I could help my allegiance defend their leveling dungeons and their towns. I would call a successful raid the achievement of winning with friends. By the way, when I say raid, I don't mean going into a dungeon with a bunch of friends to kill an NPC boss monster, I mean going into a dungeon with a bunch of friends to kill another group of players who are as intelligent as myself in order to take that dungeon from them so that my friends and clanmates can use it.
In regards to the social aspect, I find that there is no social aspect in most grindfest MMORPGs, and I've never made any lasting friends from them. Most don't even require social interaction, and its just grouping to complete a quest or a group of quests. The people i've grouped with would hardly talk to me, less it was related to the game, there was no sense of accomplishment in completing a quest to kill X amount of Z monsters with some random people I had met in the game. Yet in the PvP games I had played, many of the people I had met would stay friends long after i'd stop playing the games.
Basically what i'm saying is that PvP worlds are much more fulfilling in every way even for a player like myself whose not a good PvPer and enjoys questing and such.
Scottc, I did read your post and then forgot about it, it wasnt in anyway interesting. AC is old, I was looking for new ideas. Stuff that had not been done before.
So... what was your point? That questing in mmorpgs is as entertaining as you post? Erm...
btw, it isnt 'fact' at all, it's just your opinion, but I think you know that already and just want to get into a fight.
You see, what you have done here is strip everything out of these games that actually makes them fun, probably because you don't see any of it due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I get the picture that you see yourself as some kind of bad ass 'hard-core' solo PvPer, so I don't think you would understand the pleasure of the building social networks and the co-operative play required in the pursuit of a shared goal. I don't think you probably understand the pleasure in the exploration of a world and the enjoyment of it's lore. You maybe havent experienced he achievement of 'winning' through it all with friends, the banter and humour that comes from working with people.
I may be wrong, but this is the impression you give out to me. If so, then that's your loss not mine.
Why do I have to be a bad ass hard-core solo PvPer because I don't enjoy the repetitive quests that aren't quests at all, but jobs, in current day MMORPGs?
I didnt say you had to be a bad ass anything, I said you were coming across as someone who saw themselves as one. Using terms like 'you carebears' and a generally insulting tone made you look like the kind of guy who bangs on and on and on about no game worth even exisitng unless it had FFA open PvP.
Tbh, I actually agree with the majority here on whats wrong with the 'kill 100 of X' 'quests'... I love questing with friends, but the post I responded to, the one I quote, attacks all kind of questing it seems.
You came across as attacking PvE play, and those that enjoying that style of play, and thats what I responded to.
In regards to the social aspect, I find that there is no social aspect in most grindfest MMORPGs, and I've never made any lasting friends from them.
Like I said originally, this is prolly due to how you choose to interact with those around you.
I am still guilded with friends I met in Highkeep Pass in '99, and anyone who has camped a PGT knows what this means with regards to grinds.
Just because you choose to not play a co-operative social game, that dosent mean you have to be hostile or disparaging to those that do.
Most don't even require social interaction, and its just grouping to complete a quest or a group of quests.
I agree this has been the growing trend for the last few years in the genre, but it wasnt always so. There was a time that social skills, respect, and reputation were as important as playing skills and game knowledge to get along. A large, though not very vocal, chunk of the player base out there still plays in that same way. You just gotta find them.
Basically what i'm saying is that PvP worlds are much more fulfilling in every way even for a player like myself whose not a good PvPer and enjoys questing and such.
More fulfilling in your opinion. I can respect that. But when you start dictating that opinion as 'fact' at others, well thats when the problems start for me.
I personally hate PvP in MMORPGs, and the cultures on these servers, from the pitiful ganking, to the cowardly zone fighting, to the gang bully mentality of zerging, to the adolescent smack talk, destroys the game for me. I prefer to keep my PvP with games designed for that purpose, and let MMORPGs do what I consider they do best- Player versus Environment exploration and adventure.
I 100% agree that 'kill 100 X' quests are just poor design in a modern game though and hardly qualify for the title of 'quest'. If we can discuss that without attacking 'carebears' or whatever then I am sure we would actually agree on a lot.
If your not enjoying the combat in the game you shouldn't be fighting.
Games can implement different versions of collect items from here, or put a storyline behind why 12 is the exact number of wolves you need to kill but it is always the same thing.
Puzzles= googling the answer.
Exploring= only fun the first couple times, run to X area killing stuff that attacks you on the way.
Escort Missions= kill everything in this area rather than kill X number in this area.
In the end how fun the combat system not "how unique the quests are" will save the game. If you have fun mowing down enemies in a group it doesn't matter if your collecting 12 teeth or killing 50 trolls, its the combat system that your having fun with not the novelty of collecting something different.
If your doing anything with a point>click>wait>loot combat system I will be borned. Weather its hold an area for x minutes or escort some npc that talks the entire time.
You can reduce most quests to a combination of "Kill x monsters", "Find x", "Talk to x", "Protect x", "Gather x items". You can always make quests sound boring. The important thing is the package, the story, the outcome, the meaning related to the game world and the reward. No matter the quest it is always your perception that makes it fun or boring.
That being said I agree that most quests tend to be the same right now. The reason is because current MMOs are very static. You can only travel, fight and maybe build something. The game has to be easy so that every customer is happy and you should not forget that every quest will be done over a million times which means you can hardly tie it to the game world (quests that change the environment). Only these mundane quests fulfill the requirements.
To have quests that are more fun you have to change the game at a deeper level. Goal: Make the game harder, more dependend on player skill, more diverse and more dynamic.
- harder: bunnies should run around fast and are hard to catch. Trolls regenerate totally every 15 seconds. Giants stomp you into the ground if you get near them. Hydras get another firebreathing head if you kill a head and not the heart etc. Give a timeframe for killing bunnies. Your reward would be the number of bunnies you killed in the 3 minutes in gold coins. The goal is to make combat and quests more fun.
- player skill: manual dodge, manual aiming, npc models with hit zones, spells need some sort of combination to be invoked(mouse gestures, spell weaving with QWExQAY key block). Goal: More variaty means more tactics means more fun.
- more diverse: stuff to do: production, combat, economy, diplomacy, resource gathering, criminal activities, exploration, player vs player. Goal: as less repetition as possible
- more dynamic: hostile NPC nations popping up and attacking the world, player empires fighting each other, magic fields that distort the physics/attributes in a certain area (no gravity, magic doesnt work), other dimensions (like subspace) where a totally different set of skills are needed. Goal: As less repetition as possible, unknown future
Playing in such a world should be way more fun than in our normal EQ clones. If the game is fun people wouldn't mind a "kill 20 bunnies" quest once in a while. A world with so many options would have complex and interesting quests. I am also still waiting for true group based quests. Not just multiplying the hp and damage of the monsters by 5 for a 5 player group but truely teamwork based stuff (hitting all heads of a hydra at the same time, solving agility based puzzles, multiple tasks that have to be completed in a certain time frame).
The ideas are there. It just has to be implemented. The problem lies somewhere else: No developer wants to have more risk by trying out innovative ideas. A multimillion dollar project has more than enough risk even with very conservative goals (eq clone). We will have to wait until the WoW area gets saturated with clones so that similar games are simply doomed financially from the start.
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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Build a game that yoiu can level up with at a fast and easy pace, that you level up in more or less as a by product of exploring. That simply requires so little XP. You know, the same amount you need in any standard non subscription RPG.
Easily one of the best quotes I've seen all day, and one that I think more devs need to keep in mind.
The games we play today are less about activity and more about the reason for that activity. When you are killing 100 bunnies to gather their fur to make quivers so your archers have something to carry their arrows in while they are shooting your enemies from the keep walls, it's a much more fulfilling and urgent task than "because I asked you to."
Perception is more important to MMOs now than it ever has been in the past, and developers are missing that point.
Ive DL in last week perfect world,shaiya,last chaos,phoenix dynasty,archlord and fury and you know what.......?
There all the same, its unbelievble you start character take quest or walk 10mtrs and you start killing 10mobs for quests.
Almost all have copy lineage2 or took somethings from other wellknown mmorpgs, grafics are avarage looks they all been using engines from 5 years ago, there easy and boring, DEJAVU all over.
Thats how at this moment mmo's present and future will look like, copy from copy from copy with no original ideas.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
One (of very few things) I liked about Vanguard was a particular newbie quest where you were asked to go out and kill some of these oversized bees buzzing around nearby because they were annoying someone. (I don't remember the specific dialog). You weren't given a number, just a task to help someone out. The quest itself was of course very simple and took no thought at all, but the fact that someone finally took out that agonizing number was somehow a sign of relief! I'll just kill these bees till this guy can concentrate. Perhaps I'll even focus on the ones closest to him in the hopes I won't have to kill as many or that his concentration will improve more quickly. Know what I mean?
Anyway, to take this a step further, if there were some dynamics written in where over time the bee population diminished, perhaps that quest would be removed or altered until their population grew back again to the point of annoyance?
Just a thought...
I can't believe no one suggested this!
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Kill 1,000 Bunnies!
What you need to do then... is have a look at those games where the graphics are in focus, games like AoC or Stargate, both in production, AoC soon to be released. There is also another nordic game coming but forgot the name right now.
Producers focus on different things. In my opinion a game like AoC did not focus on the gameplay, but wanted to give some of the best graphics around. Think they said 3000 animations for the character. While this is crazy and shows they are using dated technology, it is the best out there.
A game like Stargate is a little more confusing, they seem to take focus on the gameplay and have a reduced focus on the graphics (Ive seen some it, its ok, but far from great and innovative).
Shaiya didnt focus on graphics or gameplay, they clearly wanted a game out there as fast as possible, so the graphics are 5 years old, the gameplay 10 years. Its still an ok game though, if you dont care about adding new stuff.
I think you should only kill 100 bunnies if you are roleplaying a character who has a pathological hatred for all bunny kind.
However I also think that if you roleplay a character like this a GM should be paid to force you to kill bunnies perpetually.
In fact I think all MMORPGs should have a class called Bunnyslayer which belongs to an order of knights called the Blessed Order of Lagomorph Extermination where all your powers only work on bunnies and killing anything other than a bunny causes a gigantic pig you land on your head and kill you.
This class should exist even in games that are solely skill based.
Of course the only reason to play this class, other than a fantaical hatred of bunnies (and possibly other lagomorphs), is so that eventually you can get to the end game of raiding the lair of the Vorpal Bunny. Of course this would require a large amount of farming items of sharp pointy teeth protection and a long series of quests to unlock the holy hand grenade ultimate bunny slaying power.
As should be obvious this class is only for the most hardcore of people.