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I just dont understand
I dont understand why you guys need to bash a game you have no plans of playing.
I just dont understand why you spend your time posting on a forum for a game you dont want anyways.
Let us players who want a game with Heart and soul, with something other then Easy mode have our game. I dont get why you keep posting the samethings over and over again.
Its Vaporware. How is it Vaporware? So its been 7 years and they are still working on it, how long did WoW take? 6 years and atleast 2 more years of updates and patchs to get to the game you have now? So its okay to pay a company for a product that is not full complete? That is acceptable but waiting for a game to be finished before release makes it VaporWare?
Please someone explain to me why you feel you need bash a game that a lot of people need in order to enjoy MMOs again.
I started playing MMOs with EQ1 in 1999, I played on a PvE server - Queillous for over 5 years. Then WoW came out and I started on a PvP server when Open world PvP was still fun and I never had more fun trying to grind levels while having to look over my shoulder and watch each player that came in range. Then WoW got boring, there was no soul, nothing more then a pointless grind, the community sucked and full of whiners and children who wanted each class to play the same.
To each his own, I never played SWG because it just didnt seem to fit what I want in a game, I didnt post all over their forums about how crap the game was or how stupied this was or that, I just moved on to a game that fit my playstyle.
So I ask you bashers and nah sayers to tell me why you feel you need to bash and put down a game that you will not be playing anyways, why not just move on to something more your style.
I am not a PKer and I am looking at DarkFall because of the freedom. To build guild citys, to design my charater according to my playstyle vs what a Dev thinks my playstyle is. I enjoy crafting and Darkfall seems to fit the bill. Will I get mad if some guy comes and kills me and loots all my hard work? sure but I can live with it because I will be able to resuppy quickly.
Will DarkFall be releases this year? No idea but you cant tell me it will not be released with any facts to back you up, just like I cant tell you it will be released with any facts to back me up.
Flame me if you want but I am trying to make a post so we can finally have a good conversation on these boards (if that is possiable).
Lets keep this clean, no name calling, no putting eachother down, lets talk like adults with an IQ over 90. <Mod edit>
Sooner or Later
Comments
"Lets keep this clean, no name calling, no putting eachother down, lets talk like adults with an IQ over 90. ( you can handle that right? )"
You already failed at having a no name calling, no putting each other down "adult" conversation.
I would have to say that the majority of people who post negatively here actually do want to play a game like Darkfall. Few WOW fans come here to run the games mechanics down, rather you have many folks who've followed this game's development for years and are bitter that there's almost nothing to show for it yet.
I'll take shots at DF, (and most other games) yet I would love to play it. Its entertaining to discuss the game in these forums, about all we can do really since we certainly can't play it. (or even see much about it)
I still hope to one day see DF released, I'm just not willing to be an apologist for all the bizzarro behavior we typically see from Aventurine and have no problem calling them to task on it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How did I fail? It is a simple question. It is not putting anyone down, it is challeging them to have a discussion like an adult.
Sooner or Later
I dont understand why you guys need to bash a game you have no plans of playing.
Why are you assuming everyone who is critical or skeptical has no plans on playing, I plan on playing if possible.
I was wrong, I did assume that everyone bashing the game didnt want to play it. I was wrong
I just dont understand why you spend your time posting on a forum for a game you dont want anyways.
Why are you assuming everyone who makes critical or skeptical posts don’t want a game like Darkfall, I do.
I was wrong, I did assume that everyone bashing the game didnt want to play it. I was wrong.
Let us players who want a game with Heart and soul, with something other then Easy mode have our game.
Unfortunately its not a game yet, and the only ones who are stopping you from having it are the developers.
The Developers are not stopping us, they are making the game for us.
I dont get why you keep posting the samethings over and over again.
Because the developers have failed to start beta or release every year over and over again.
But that is because they are new to making Games and they didnt release how long it was going to take them
Its Vaporware. How is it Vaporware? So its been 7 years and they are still working on it, how long did WoW take? 6 years and atleast 2 more years of updates and patchs to get to the game you have now? So its okay to pay a company for a product that is not full complete? That is acceptable but waiting for a game to be finished before release makes it VaporWare?
Perhaps if you stopped making dubious analogies with WoW and genuinely looked at Darkfall’s development history from 2001 to now and its developers actions over that time period with an open mind.
You might appreciate why some people associate Darkfall with the word that begins with V that should never be spoken, or why some people are critical and skeptical.
If you look at it with an open mind you would understand that it would take a small company alot longer to make the same game as a larger company. That is want most of the skeptical people are missing.
Please someone explain to me why you feel you need bash a game that a lot of people need in order to enjoy MMOs again.
Its not a game yet, so we cant enjoy it yet, most people don’t “bash” the idea of Darkfall they are critical or skeptical of the developers inability to demonstrate they can produce a successful MMO based on those ideas.
They are new to the MMO industry, the only way they can prove to anyone they can make a game is to release it, it is going to take time to create a game and get it ready for release. Again they are a small company and it will take them longer then a large company.... A large company takes 5 to 6 years to make a solid game.
I started playing MMOs with EQ1 in 1999, I played on a PvE server - Queillous for over 5 years. Then WoW came out and I started on a PvP server when Open world PvP was still fun and I never had more fun trying to grind levels while having to look over my shoulder and watch each player that came in range. Then WoW got boring, there was no soul, nothing more then a pointless grind, the community sucked and full of whiners and children who wanted each class to play the same.
To each his own, I never played SWG because it just didnt seem to fit what I want in a game, I didnt post all over their forums about how crap the game was or how stupied this was or that, I just moved on to a game that fit my playstyle.
Darkfall is the holy grail of MMO’s and its concepts and features fit my play style perfectly, that’s why I don’t move on even though I’m critical and skeptical about the developers.
How can you be critical of a game you want to play. Should you not be hyping it to create more players instead of being skeptical?
So I ask you bashers and nah sayers to tell me why you feel you need to bash and put down a game that you will not be playing anyways, why not just move on to something more your style.
Again don’t assume that everyone who is critical or skeptical about Darkfall does not plan to play Darkfall, I do.
Agian I am wrong to assume that.
I am not a PKer and I am looking at DarkFall because of the freedom. To build guild citys, to design my charater according to my playstyle vs what a Dev thinks my playstyle is. I enjoy crafting and Darkfall seems to fit the bill. Will I get mad if some guy comes and kills me and loots all my hard work? sure but I can live with it because I will be able to resuppy quickly.
Well that certainly sounds exciting and interesting, problem is non of that has been demonstrated satisfactorily as actually being implemented as part of Darkfall that is ready for Beta or release.
We each new game we dont know what it will be like untill we play, yet people are hyped about WAR and AOC. We only know what the Devs tell us and what we find out.
Will DarkFall be releases this year? No idea but you cant tell me it will not be released with any facts to back you up, just like I cant tell you it will be released with any facts to back me up.
I agree and that’s what is been like for years, still no reason not to enjoy speculating and arguing about it though while we wait.
Problem is everyone whose been critical or skeptical about Beta and release every year has been right, everyone who has been positive or optimistic has been wrong every year.
Okay so they keep pushing back there beta and release. How is this different then any other MMO ever made.... I recall WAR closing there beta a few months ago to re work it, I recall AoC moving back there release yet I still dont see the outcry of Vaporware like we get with Darkfall
Flame me if you want but I am trying to make a post so we can finally have a good conversation on these boards (if that is possiable).
That has never been possible as demonstrated by the many years of posts like this that have failed to do so, I doubt this will be the exception to the norm.
Agreed, MMORPG is not the best place to have a good Discussion.
Lets keep this clean, no name calling, no putting eachother down, lets talk like adults with an IQ over 90. ( you can handle that right? )
Are you sure it’s a good idea to insult every potential participant in this thread if you genuinely want this to be a productive and mature discussion?
It is a simple question, it is not putting anyone down. It was asking if we could have a mature Discussion. How is that putting anyone down?
Sooner or Later
TdogSkal you post is very confusing if you use the same color for your reply's as the original post's text.
Fixing it now. Sorry.
Sooner or Later
TdogSkal - this is mmorp.com, the home of purile "I hate this game so it has to be pulled" posting. There are plenty of people who don't want DF to see the light of day, but, heaven forbid, they loose their precious game .... and good post by the way.
I've been following DF since November 2001.
I would love to see it release someday so I can play it.
But based on the developer's track record of repeated failure, I am skeptical that it will ever happen.
Is it that hard to understand why people are frustrated?
They promised beta in 2007, and *again* failed to deliver.
That is annoying.
They should delete their website and stop jerking everyone around.
They have repeatedly promised to deliver a product on their website, and repeatedly the promise has evaporated.
Evaporate + Software = Vaporware.
Maybe if you had an IQ over 90 you would get it.
-----
Its funny how people who hate Darkfall spend so much time talking about Darkfall.
I guess being a fat troll means having no friends, no girls, and nothing better to do than spew hate on internet forums..
Didnt AoC move back the release date a few times?
Didnt Every other MMO ever made at some point in time move back the release date and beta date?
So are those all Vaporware too?
I understand that Darkfall has been pushing it back more often then the other games but lets be honest here. Darkfall is being made by a small company. A small company that has never made a MMO game before. So with that logic is it not possiable that they didnt know what to expect and made promises they could not keep so they had to push back the beta and release?
If it takes a company the size of blizzard 6 years to make a MMO game as basic as WoW was and is, then is it not logical that it would take a small company like the one that is making Darkfall alot longer to make a game?
Logic is fun, not alot of people understand it.
Sooner or Later
People always insult games they don't want to play. Most people only think of what THEY want, not what other people might want.
Remember the Vanguard forums when it first came out?
WoW has always had people who bashed it because they hate the genre of MMOs it has created (me included).
There are some people bashing EvE.
There are some people bashing Darkfall.
If you break down all gamers into a pie chart of who likes what, there will always be a group of gamers who bash other games they don't like. But the games that people take the time to bash all have one thing in common: They're usually successful or cornerstone games in the industry. (look at SWG... it was bashed by tons of gamers, but it was hugely successful.)
- Phos
Didnt AoC move back the release date a few times?
Didnt Every other MMO ever made at some point in time move back the release date and beta date?
So are those all Vaporware too?
I understand that Darkfall has been pushing it back more often then the other games but lets be honest here. Darkfall is being made by a small company. A small company that has never made a MMO game before. So with that logic is it not possiable that they didnt know what to expect and made promises they could not keep so they had to push back the beta and release?
If it takes a company the size of blizzard 6 years to make a MMO game as basic as WoW was and is, then is it not logical that it would take a small company like the one that is making Darkfall alot longer to make a game?
Logic is fun, not alot of people understand it.
There is a difference between broken promises and out-right lies.
The Darkfall team has repeatedly stated that they are ready for beta now, and that they only need a publisher.
This is obviously not true.
-----
Its funny how people who hate Darkfall spend so much time talking about Darkfall.
I guess being a fat troll means having no friends, no girls, and nothing better to do than spew hate on internet forums..
OP has a point and your post is a good example for demonstration.
The green quoted part is constructive and shows hope. The red quoted part is destructive and shows bad feelings about the project and the company.
The problem is for OP and for me that you havent made you mind, your ambiguous opinions are irritating. So we wish you either decide to wait a bit more with us but then you should stop irritating us or decide to not wait for release and to move on.
My statement is not personal it goes for all the DF "semi haters" out there.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Please point the lie out for me i am daft as a brush.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Didnt AoC move back the release date a few times?
Didnt Every other MMO ever made at some point in time move back the release date and beta date?
So are those all Vaporware too?
I understand that Darkfall has been pushing it back more often then the other games but lets be honest here. Darkfall is being made by a small company. A small company that has never made a MMO game before. So with that logic is it not possiable that they didnt know what to expect and made promises they could not keep so they had to push back the beta and release?
If it takes a company the size of blizzard 6 years to make a MMO game as basic as WoW was and is, then is it not logical that it would take a small company like the one that is making Darkfall alot longer to make a game?
Logic is fun, not alot of people understand it.
There is a difference between broken promises and out-right lies.
The Darkfall team has repeatedly stated that they are ready for beta now, and that they only need a publisher.
This is obviously not true.
How is that obviously not true? Where is your proof that is not all they are waiting?Again you cant state your opinion as a fact.
I dont have any proof that you are right or wrong but that doesnt change the fact that you have no proof that you are right.
They could be ready for beta and they could be playing the game internally right now, whos to say they are not. They never flat out lied. They broke promises of releases, just like every other MMO ever made.
WAR and AoC are great examples of this, both were said to be release last year. Now AoC is slated for release in may, I bet they move it back again, does that mean they lied to you or broke their promise.
WAR closed down the beta and I dont see you calling them liers.
Sooner or Later
Basically as demonstrated by this thread if people remain civil and articulate themselves successfully it comes down to a difference of opinion based on the available information , I’m critical and skeptical about Darkfall’s developers, some people are optimistic and positive but most of us want to play a game like Darkfall.
I’m not going to convince anyone to be critical or skeptical about the facts pertaining to Darkfall and no one is going to convince me to be optimistic and positive based on the available evidence.
As long as neither side of the argument or anyone in-between is ignorant or in denial about any of the facts then its really only are interpretation of them that is in question.
The only way we can find out who is right is when the developers start beta and release the game, so without the drama and the speculation (considering that almost every conceivable topic relating to Darkfall has been discussed ad nauseum multiple times already over the years) there really would not be much left to talk about except to agree to disagree in silence while we wait.
Without the arguments, insults and accusations etc. or the intense scrutiny and debate about the developer updates there really would be nothing left to talk about, as demonstrated by this forum and the official forums.
We are all guilty of resorting to venting are anger, resentment or disappointment on fellow members of the Darkfall community or people outside it or the developers themselves while we wait, and I don’t see any reason why we will stop doing so until the developers start showing us what we have been waiting to see.
It's fine to be hopeful. However, there is definitely a clear difference between AoC, WAR, WoW, etc pushing their release date back compared to darkfall.
People have actually played WAR on beta servers. It is an actual game. Live servers. Whereas, to my knowledge, and if I am wrong please correct me, but no one has played Darkfall yet on beta servers, no beta release has ever, well, been implemented....
TdogSkal, the end of your original post was insulting to anyone that might read this thread. You may not have had that intention, but the way you worded the sentence was very abrasive. It would have been better to say "I am posting this because I want a serious discussion, any constructive posts are appreciated." Instead of "Hey idiots, can you try not to flame me." Which is basically how the IQ comment came across.
Anyway, onto the real subject.
I also want to play DF. It's basically UO2, which would be fantastic. But I am also not so blind as to miss the overwhelming evidence that it is never coming out. I will honestly be shocked if the game ever sees the light of day. Why do I say this? Because unlike other games like WAR and AoC that you made comparisons to. DF has never been seen by anyone outside of the company (except 1 fanboy, and that was just a tech demo... which any developer with 6 months of experience can throw together).
That is a huge issue. They have never been to a game convention, they have never released any actual game play videos. It's been 7 years and they have nothing more then a handful of screenshots to show for their work. Hell games like Earthrise & The Agency are further along then DF, and they've only been in development for a few years. The Agency has only been in development for 2 years and they are already at game conventions and showing playable game footage.
I'm going to repeat it again here, the reason that most people are so skeptical of DF ever being released is because the game has never been seen in a playable state.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I can see were you and others are coming from and I can agree to a point. I also Understand that a small company that is trying to make a huge game like Darkfall might not have the man power to be able to market like the big boys. They may simply not have the time to travel around the world showing off the game. I can agree though that it does seem odd that we have not seen more of the game but there are a number of reason why they could be keeping a lid on things. Good or Bad we dont know. We also dont know what they are thinking and planning. Maybe they are waiting for the right moment to do a huge marketing push. Maybe they really are all laughing at us and not making a game. Maybe Darkfall is just a dream like some of you think and I guess I can see your point of view and how you can justify it. They have not give us gamers alot of information on the game and they have not do a great job in the past of keeping us updated. I can give a million excuses as to why they dont give us updates but they would just be a waste of everyones time.
Games like The Agency that is coming from SOE which has years and years of prior MMO building expernice and with lots more resourses such as a larger staff and a huge marketing team (come on its SONY, they just won the Blu RAY vs HD DvD format War).
This is the kind of post I was looking for when I started this topic, very well though out, it provides valid reasons why he/she is skeptical of Darkfalls development.
Hopefully soon we will have the final answer on Darkfall. If Darkfall does not come out then many a players will lose all hope in the future of MMOs and that would just be bad for the Industry as a hole. I know the Industry is growing and it is becoming more main stream as are all Video Games, look at the Wii, but sooner or later the industry will fail because you can only make so many different versions of EQ, WOW and the like.
Sooner or Later
It's easy to understand why they keep trowing stones at Darkfall.
Few examples.
1. Somehow someone said the word vaporware, now this is kinda new and fancy word. People didn't read anything about the game. They just like to use the fancy word. And it spread.
Folks started to make alt. accounts just to trash the game. Mature? no.
2. Religion - When you belive in something so much, it's hard to let it go. Doesn't matter what proof you put infront of'em they just spit at it and try to turn it around. to something bad.
Guess we have to take this with ease, just pitty them and hope that they don't are such asses in real life.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
I can see were you and others are coming from and I can agree to a point. I also Understand that a small company that is trying to make a huge game like Darkfall might not have the man power to be able to market like the big boys. They may simply not have the time to travel around the world showing off the game. I can agree though that it does seem odd that we have not seen more of the game but there are a number of reason why they could be keeping a lid on things. Good or Bad we dont know. We also dont know what they are thinking and planning. Maybe they are waiting for the right moment to do a huge marketing push. Maybe they really are all laughing at us and not making a game. Maybe Darkfall is just a dream like some of you think and I guess I can see your point of view and how you can justify it. They have not give us gamers alot of information on the game and they have not do a great job in the past of keeping us updated. I can give a million excuses as to why they dont give us updates but they would just be a waste of everyones time.
Games like The Agency that is coming from SOE which has years and years of prior MMO building expernice and with lots more resourses such as a larger staff and a huge marketing team (come on its SONY, they just won the Blu RAY vs HD DvD format War).
This is the kind of post I was looking for when I started this topic, very well though out, it provides valid reasons why he/she is skeptical of Darkfalls development.
Hopefully soon we will have the final answer on Darkfall. If Darkfall does not come out then many a players will lose all hope in the future of MMOs and that would just be bad for the Industry as a hole. I know the Industry is growing and it is becoming more main stream as are all Video Games, look at the Wii, but sooner or later the industry will fail because you can only make so many different versions of EQ, WOW and the like.
/signed
People bash and call it vapourware because after x years theres still nothing solid to show other than a few lifeless tech demo videos and some screenshots.
A game as revolutionary as darkfall-as in the first large scale 'fps' MMO game,would youd think at least have some proper teasers and points of interest for the fans or anyone interested in game design and programming,but instead we see nothing. Videos of characters running around or riding a mount are meaningless without showing any kind of UI or interface. Plus where are all the NPCs and mobs?
The devs can claim that they dont need or want publicity,but to me thats a cop out. You dont spend 6 years on a game,apparently get it to the point of having a full (non inhabited) world and then show nothing for it. Why wouldnt they demo it to the press?Why not put out actual gameplay videos with a UI,ability bar,crafting interface etc in it? I dont buy the "our fans dont need their hand held with previews" line-why the hell not? Theyve supported your game vision for years,in some cases since 2001. Is this some kind of new elitist fad,to refuse any solid info on a game and instead blindly fumble? If the game is running as the devs claim it is,show your fans.
To me thats the reason why so many people say its vapourware. Im sure if they ever show some gameplay footage or get a running demo out there,people would quickly shut up.
The difference between this and other games is that other companies have shown development of their game throughout the process,giving interviews and previews,teasers and of course had alphas,closed betas and in some cases open beta.
I gave up on darkfall at least 3 years ago..This is no way meant to be a bsah on darkfall or its followers,so put the pitchforks away.
all of this dosent really matter
either darkfall wont come out
or it will (which is what i believe imo) and everyone talking here will try it no matter how many vaporwear claims they made
most people are mad at darkfall because
1. its the game they have always wanted to play
2. its not out yet and they have waited a long time
as everyone said.. it takes a long ass time to make an mmo.. Aventurine really hasent spent that much time on it based on its recources...
Aventurines biggest mistake was announcing the project too early.. if the announced it last year like most companies would have everything would have been ok
but then again.. i wouldnt have been able to play forumfall =P
Remember Old School Ultima Online
The problem with DF is the hype happened way too early. Hype is dangerous, specially for a video game.
People who are skeptics are mostly people who don't fall for or have been burned way too many times by hype. The devs have been baiting people with all this info on what is going to be in the game, yet showing nothing of the game save for a few static shots and enviromental vids. They have been promising betas for a few years now and nothing has come of it. After a while people to start to become skeptical, and they have a right to be. It doesn't mean they don't want the game to happen or they don't want to play it, it just means they will from that point on question everything the devs say and not fall for the hype.
It's better to be a skeptic than to follow something in blind faith, because if it never happens the skeptics won't be as let down, while those who follow blindly will be let crushed and jaded.
As for games like AoC and WAR pushing back release dates and stopping betas, they did so at a point in thier development where there was actually a game, where they knew they had something that needed a bit more work and time. You can't compare the two games to DF because they are in a whole different point of thier development phases.
All in all it's better to be skeptical and suprised than to be faithful and crushed.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"