Couldn't agree more with Lazarus. PC and colsoles are both great for pretty much all game types including MMO's. It's all based on opinion. I say bring all MMO's to as many different systems as possible. More players, more money for the companies and overall, a better gaming experience for everyone. Of course you will have to deal with immature players with bad attitudes, but hey, thats a part of life and you will experience the exact same thing anywhere else in games and out. :P Just enjoy and play the games you love. Why care if they go to other systems? It really confuses me.
Is it easier for devs to make games on consoles? I agree with Rob, that putting games on console, and especially for MMOs, that it will dumb down an MMO way too much then we already have now. The only reason I can see devs wanting to dumb down a game so it can fit a console is so they can make more money with a mutliple medium. Unfortunate for us who like complex games like Old SWG and especially games like Eve, hell a consule version of WOW would introduce more and more mindless gameplay
Do you best to try and convince them to stay away from console, or at the very least, have them not mix the two medias.
Erm, this point of view really confuses me... Why would using a control pad and mics over Live (or whatever) to commicate be any 'dumber' then using a mouse/ keyboard and Vent? Does it effect lore? Plot? Characterisation? Difficulty or complexity level?
The answer is, of course, no.
Not just that,but they could add keyboard / mouse for the systems. XBOX360 does have a USB port you know.
I myself can't wait for when mmo's go on consoles. Playing on my 52 inch TV and sitting on my couch will make my day.
This is what I can't understand.
I would have no compunction about the death of the PC as a gaming platform if console makers would just give up on their stupid obsession with boxing out keyboard/mouse play.
Consoles, afterall, are nothing more than standardized computers. They have now broken the resolution barrier that previously existed, and little really stands in the way of them being a viable replacement for PCs as gaming platforms, other than this historical aversion to expanding control flexibility.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
What is with all the angst regarding MMO's on consoles?
The two leading consoles this gen can pretty easily run anything that runs on a PC. With 5.1 sound and 1920x1080 resolutions the experience is pretty comparable.
"Dumbed down"? WTF? Like WoW isn't already dumbed down? What are you talking about? Younger players on consoles? Better community? Again, wtf are you on about? LIke WoW is populated exclusively by middle aged, well-behaved, polite professionals?
As you all might recall, there is a pretty significant MMO already running on consoles. Final Fantasy not only runs on xbox but even old PS2s and guess what, they share the exact same identical world with players on PC. Are the graphics the same? No (but they are last gen consoles). Is the rest of the game pretty much identical? Yes. Have consoles improved drastically compared to what FF used to run on? You better believe it.
The only major difference now is controls and MS could easily enable keyboard/mouse on the 360 and PS3 already supports it. So, uh, what other reasons do you have that aren't 5 year old and inapplicable anymore?
Pull your collective heads out of your butts and look around, console /= NIntendo 64 anymore. There are close to 10 million Xbox 360's out there. If you only got 10% of them to play it would be the second biggest MMO in production. To me that just screams "come sell me something that you can charge me for every single month"!
Um, welcome to 2008? What is with all the angst regarding MMO's on consoles? The two leading consoles this gen can pretty easily run anything that runs on a PC. With 5.1 sound and 1920x1080 resolutions the experience is pretty comparable. "Dumbed down"? WTF? Like WoW isn't already dumbed down? What are you talking about? Younger players on consoles? Better community? Again, wtf are you on about? LIke WoW is populated exclusively by middle aged, well-behaved, polite professionals? As you all might recall, there is a pretty significant MMO already running on consoles. Final Fantasy not only runs on xbox but even old PS2s and guess what, they share the exact same identical world with players on PC. Are the graphics the same? No (but they are last gen consoles). Is the rest of the game pretty much identical? Yes. Have consoles improved drastically compared to what FF used to run on? You better believe it. The only major difference now is controls and MS could easily enable keyboard/mouse on the 360 and PS3 already supports it. So, uh, what other reasons do you have that aren't 5 year old and inapplicable anymore?
Pull your collective heads out of your butts and look around, console /= NIntendo 64 anymore. There are close to 10 million Xbox 360's out there. If you only got 10% of them to play it would be the second biggest MMO in production. To me that just screams "come sell me something that you can charge me for every single month"!
Um, welcome to 2008? What is with all the angst regarding MMO's on consoles? The two leading consoles this gen can pretty easily run anything that runs on a PC. With 5.1 sound and 1920x1080 resolutions the experience is pretty comparable. "Dumbed down"? WTF? Like WoW isn't already dumbed down? What are you talking about? Younger players on consoles? Better community? Again, wtf are you on about? LIke WoW is populated exclusively by middle aged, well-behaved, polite professionals? As you all might recall, there is a pretty significant MMO already running on consoles. Final Fantasy not only runs on xbox but even old PS2s and guess what, they share the exact same identical world with players on PC. Are the graphics the same? No (but they are last gen consoles). Is the rest of the game pretty much identical? Yes. Have consoles improved drastically compared to what FF used to run on? You better believe it. The only major difference now is controls and MS could easily enable keyboard/mouse on the 360 and PS3 already supports it. So, uh, what other reasons do you have that aren't 5 year old and inapplicable anymore?
Pull your collective heads out of your butts and look around, console /= NIntendo 64 anymore. There are close to 10 million Xbox 360's out there. If you only got 10% of them to play it would be the second biggest MMO in production. To me that just screams "come sell me something that you can charge me for every single month"!
Well said!
Microsoft Live already charges you a hefty chunk of change every month. Plus all the problems of patching, etc....
So a PC player pays 15 bucks a month, and has pretty much unlimited uploading/downloading. The XBox player pays 15 bucks a month, plus 8 bucks a month (XBox Live Gold), and doesn't get to do anything much on the internet...
That to me... screams "Buy a PC and use THAT." Heh.
I play PC MMOs because I have a PC for work and the Internet. If the genre 'big names' go to consoles, the genre will lose me (after 14 years it's probably time anyways) but I'll not be pigeon-holed into spending more money just for a box to play games on.
I never will go exclusively to console in any event but it it did....*shakes finger* You just try me..I'll be gone like that! *snaps fingers*
I am done quoting posts of the "pc" people on this site ( even though I am a pc and console person) you can all keep living in this realm of self delusion, consoles are as viable of a MMO platform as pc's and developers no this or they wouldnt be making them. The whole argument about dumbing them down is pointless also, there are more kids on consoles thats a fact but you underestimate how many adults own and play consoles. I myself belong to 2 communities one called Age (Adult Gaming Enthusiasts) and the other called TAG ( The Adult Gamer) made up entirely of adults with families and real lives. Almost all of us play consoles and pc games and will always enjoy both mediums. In these communities we also enjoy MMO's and would gladly play one on a console when a quality title becomes available and we would not need a "dumbed down" version and beleive neither would these kids you all speak of, the youth of today learn things in school we didnt learn till college so why do adults assume all kids are ignorant, thats not very logical. I also have to address the poster who said basically PC gamers are superior to consolers at fps and would "school" them. Hate to burst your bubble but most of the people I play online with are just as comfortable with a mouse and keyboard in there hands as a controller and would gladly show you that first hand. Also Gears of War is a console game ported to PC so your whole paragraph about that is a moot point. In the end most of the things stated here are personal opinion and personal tastes but please tell me how wrong I am.
I'm not sure what posts you're reading, but I think you might be misinterpreting some of the meanings, especially for the term "dumbing down". By saying they'll have to "dumb down" the games for consoles most people mean both the control system as well as general functionality. Having the large number of abilities available for a console game as most PC MMOs have today, would make the games extremely burdensome to play/use them. Given both the very limited number of "buttons" on console controllers and thus the small number of possible macroing/combination possibilites, most of today's MMOs would have to cut down on a very large number of abilities/functionality to be viable. That in turn could very possibly force the developers to ease up on many of the core aspects of a game.
In regards to the post about someone saying PC users are superios at FPS to console gamers, you took it the wrong way. They were saying that the speed of targetting control with a mouse/keyboard tends to be much faster than that of console controllers - and they used Gears of War as an example, claiming to hve played the game on both systems. Also, I don't think the fact that Gears of War was a console game ported to PC makes any of the previous examples it was used in moot by any means.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
I am done quoting posts of the "pc" people on this site ( even though I am a pc and console person) you can all keep living in this realm of self delusion, consoles are as viable of a MMO platform as pc's and developers no this or they wouldnt be making them. The whole argument about dumbing them down is pointless also, there are more kids on consoles thats a fact but you underestimate how many adults own and play consoles. I myself belong to 2 communities one called Age (Adult Gaming Enthusiasts) and the other called TAG ( The Adult Gamer) made up entirely of adults with families and real lives. Almost all of us play consoles and pc games and will always enjoy both mediums. In these communities we also enjoy MMO's and would gladly play one on a console when a quality title becomes available and we would not need a "dumbed down" version and beleive neither would these kids you all speak of, the youth of today learn things in school we didnt learn till college so why do adults assume all kids are ignorant, thats not very logical. I also have to address the poster who said basically PC gamers are superior to consolers at fps and would "school" them. Hate to burst your bubble but most of the people I play online with are just as comfortable with a mouse and keyboard in there hands as a controller and would gladly show you that first hand. Also Gears of War is a console game ported to PC so your whole paragraph about that is a moot point. In the end most of the things stated here are personal opinion and personal tastes but please tell me how wrong I am.
I'm not sure what posts you're reading, but I think you might be misinterpreting some of the meanings, especially for the term "dumbing down". By saying they'll have to "dumb down" the games for consoles most people mean both the control system as well as general functionality. Having the large number of abilities available for a console game as most PC MMOs have today, would make the games extremely burdensome to play/use them. Given both the very limited number of "buttons" on console controllers and thus the small number of possible macroing/combination possibilites, most of today's MMOs would have to cut down on a very large number of abilities/functionality to be viable. That in turn could very possibly force the developers to ease up on many of the core aspects of a game.
In regards to the post about someone saying PC users are superios at FPS to console gamers, you took it the wrong way. They were saying that the speed of targetting control with a mouse/keyboard tends to be much faster than that of console controllers - and they used Gears of War as an example, claiming to hve played the game on both systems. Also, I don't think the fact that Gears of War was a console game ported to PC makes any of the previous examples it was used in moot by any means.
Thanks for taking the time to post a well thought out and intelligent reply to my post. The "dumbing down" term is a two meaning term, it can mean exactly what you were saying which I can easily see how some people would think that way becuase of the percieved limitations of the control schemes on console, the reason i would disagree with this is quite simple I can plug a mouse and keyboard into my ps3, therefore that line of reasoning isnt valid at all. Also for those who say well microsoft doesnt allow it on the 360, that doesnt matter if it can be done it will. they also no this seeing as how they have released a controler addon that is a mini keyboard.
Now my paragraph about "dumbing down" though was aimed at some I have read on these forums who have actually stated in no uncertain terms that consolers are a less intelligent demographic in the gaming communities. This should not be taken as an attack on everyone using the term dumbed down.
As to the paragraph about fps I did misread his meaning, of course a kb/mouse combo is more accurate then a controller. There are those who use controllers who would say they can hold there own against any kb/mouse player. I cant dispute this even though I do actually agree with the poster about the advantage for pc players.
Once again thanks for the reply but while my post didnt clarify itself on wich way the term dumbed down was being used I meant exactly what I said just on a different use of the term i have seen on these and other forums and not nesecarily this thread. Just blew off some steam about it here lol!
Originally posted by eric_w66 Microsoft Live already charges you a hefty chunk of change every month. Plus all the problems of patching, etc....
So a PC player pays 15 bucks a month, and has pretty much unlimited uploading/downloading. The XBox player pays 15 bucks a month, plus 8 bucks a month (XBox Live Gold), and doesn't get to do anything much on the internet... That to me... screams "Buy a PC and use THAT." Heh.
Or you could buy a PS3 or a Wii and download game demos, surf the web, play games online or whatever for free just like in PC land. PS3 is actually even going to come bundled with a free MMOish sort of experience in a few months (Home). Which strikes me as pretty nutty since you can't get to the web at all on a 360. Nice how MS manages to charge more for fewer options.
Also, MMOs on the X-box 360 don't require a gold account, so your point is utterly moot with respect to MMOs (the topic of this thread, after all). A free silver account is all you need to get to go online with PSU or FFXI.
Why do I get the feeling that the pro PC guys in this thread know barely anything about consoles . . .
Also, the latest Penny Arcade blog post is somewhat relevant:
The future of the console is the PC. Look at all the add ons for the XBox 360. What does it look like with all those things attached to it? A PC.
Excellent observation - consoles are naturally evolving into PCs for a reason - because they MUST. Complex, sophisticated gameplay demands a PC-like platform.
When people point to "better Action!" and "more realistic Combat!" as desireable advantages of consoles, they're advocating the very things that mmogs are NOT - action fighting games. Many consolers don't seem to understand that mmogs are different from Shooters and Fighting games.
Console makes have offered keyboards since the 2600. Some of them offered mice. They are not good sellers.
Why, you ask? Because a keyboard and mouse needs a desk, which is totally antithetical to where the console is designed to operate from (the living room on a sofa with the primere television in the household from 4'-9' away).
Console games are all about cinematic experiences (sights and sounds). MMOs, quite frankly, have never been able to match console cinematics and ambiance. Nor can they, because MMOs are all about organizing bits and pieces of information on your screen. They are text-intensive and detail-oriented games, which requires an environment that is condusive to this sort of task. The living room ain't that place. Not from 4'-9' away, balancing a keyboard on your lap, with no flat surface available.
You see, the problem with these sorts of games on consoles isn't that the technology isn't there. The problem is that the environment the console occupies isn't set up for marathon sessions sifting through data. If it were, you'd do your quickbooks on your plasma, and your word processing from your sofa.
There is a reason you go to your desk to do those types of things, and that's because the wife wants to watch Oprah, your kids want to watch Sesame Street, and your dad wants to watch DVDs. It's a total disruption for long term activities that require sorting through lots of details quickly.
Broadband access? That's easy for consoles. Mapping to controllers? Can do. Using keyboards and mice? Entirely possible. The problem isn't the capability. The problem, as I see it, is the space and place the console operates from is totally incondusive to the sorts of tasks that separate MMOs from, say, action games or FPS.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Console makes have offered keyboards since the 2600. Some of them offered mice. They are not good sellers. Why, you ask? Because a keyboard and mouse needs a desk, which is totally antithetical to where the console is designed to operate from (the living room on a sofa with the primere television in the household from 4'-9' away). Console games are all about cinematic experiences (sights and sounds). MMOs, quite frankly, have never been able to match console cinematics and ambiance. Nor can they, because MMOs are all about organizing bits and pieces of information on your screen. They are text-intensive and detail-oriented games, which requires an environment that is condusive to this sort of task. The living room ain't that place. Not from 4'-9' away, balancing a keyboard on your lap, with no flat surface available. You see, the problem with these sorts of games on consoles isn't that the technology isn't there. The problem is that the environment the console occupies isn't set up for marathon sessions sifting through data. If it were, you'd do your quickbooks on your plasma, and your word processing from your sofa. There is a reason you go to your desk to do those types of things, and that's because the wife wants to watch Oprah, your kids want to watch Sesame Street, and your dad wants to watch DVDs. It's a total disruption for long term activities that require sorting through lots of details quickly. Broadband access? That's easy for consoles. Mapping to controllers? Can do. Using keyboards and mice? Entirely possible. The problem isn't the capability. The problem, as I see it, is the space and place the console operates from is totally incondusive to the sorts of tasks that separate MMOs from, say, action games or FPS.
All very valid points, the only problem is people have marathon sessions now on consoles in the games they play on them, including myself. I personally have played FFXI on my 360 and had no problems using a keybord to do the typing, and if I did choose to use a mouse on one of the console platforms, I have a very easy and inexpensive tilting tv stand that works great for this very purpose. In fact I have used my laptop on it numreous times. Also lets think about what you said about the enviroment itself not being condusive to long sessions required in an mmo hmm.........More comfortable-Setting on my huge and cushy sofa for 4 hours or sitting at my stiff backed computer chair, not even a contest lol.
I find this good. As long I am able to play on Xbox Live with other people, then on certain games (like AoC), I would wrather play it on console (although usually I am a PC person.). The one bad thing with consoles is that you attract a different kind of crowd. I'm sure, for example, that AoC will have more mature people playing on PC than on the Xbox version (since much younger people have Xbox Live). Persoanally, I like to have an option between PC and console, so I can look into both of them and see whhich I would wrather play on.
i Agree with the first poster Mike. I think consoles are more comfortable to play as i can sit far back, get to use a large tv rather than in front of a pc. If i had a faster laptop i could use that as well, but more expense. I would love to play it on the console, but i don't see how they can get the system to work on it. the combinations that a keyboard and mouse give is huge, how they replicate that on a few buttons on the console i don't know. I am also sure we are aware of how rubbish the infrastructure of xbox live is! imagine patches and the traffic for an mmo as well! unless MS can have a private channel per game. I really hope it works. I think i will get AoC and see if that plays well on the console, would be interesting to see of the functions are the same as the pc. AoC would probably compare quite well due to the type of game it is, now war and Wow i am not sure how that will work!
I really hope they can work it out as it is more comfortable sprauled on my bed
Personally, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of big MMO names on the consoles. I believe it could be a big step for MMOs as a genre. Let's face it, the MMO market is not evolving at all quickly. They all share basically the same rigid formula that EQ adopted from MUDs. While things like customizable interfaces and such have seen some evolution, the basic progression and combat have not really progressed in any meaningful way.
I believe the move towards console gaming will breathe more life into the genre as developers experiment with different gameplay and control models to better adapt to a console and its controller. I am already interested by some things I have read about The Agency, and I am eager to hear more about its gameplay formula, which I hear is definitely not the norm for a MMO.
As for many of the remarks I have read in this thread, I don't agree with many of the arguments. Kids? There are plenty of us geezers around who have been playing arcade, PC, and console games since the BBS and Pong days. Personally, I find these "kids" (which are usually adults acting like kids) in all gaming arenas from Quakeworld days through all MMOs.
As for dumbing down the gameplay, I expect the exact opposite effect to happen eventually. The gameplay will end up evolving, FINALLY.
I'm getting a bit tired of the MMO genre as it is (like I said, not evolving -- as is evidenced by many of the cancellations many of which I was testing and agreed should be cancelled). And there really isn't much of a difference between buying a new console every X years or upgrading my PC every X/2 years. And hey, these days I am enjoying gaming on my big Flat Screen more than my PC.
I actually just bought a PS2 game the other day. And guess what? I didn't have to have my PS2 to play it, because my PS3 plays it just fine. ;-)
However, I still do not like having to pay for X-box Live. I'll give ya that one!
Controller limitation? I dunno. I have seen some very clever console interfaces, and again I believe it may push the genre to new mechanics that even the PC MMOs may adopt. Besides, if we can have drums and guitars on the consoles, I'm sure a MMO could release a specialized controller as well.
Lastly, one thing we should take from the success of the Wii in the current market is that which we gamers have been preaching all along: gameplay, availability, and ease-of-use > horsepower. The 360 and PS3 have really nice graphics. I don't feel a need to rush on to the next Nvidia offering anytime soon.
Why does everyone always complain about XBOX Live costing money???
If you can not afford the $50 for a year....or is it $40 for 13 months? I forget
maybe you need to get a job and not be playing so many games
cmon, thats dirt cheap
if you cant afford the 3 or 4 dollars a month to spend on your hobby, maybe you need a new one. Something like, maybe getting a new job, a second job or can collecting.
I believe the move towards console gaming will breathe more life into the genre as developers experiment with different gameplay and control models to better adapt to a console and its controller. I am already interested by some things I have read about The Agency, and I am eager to hear more about its gameplay formula, which I hear is definitely not the norm for a MMO.
Why does everyone always complain about XBOX Live costing money??? If you can not afford the $50 for a year....or is it $40 for 13 months? I forget maybe you need to get a job and not be playing so many games cmon, thats dirt cheap if you cant afford the 3 or 4 dollars a month to spend on your hobby, maybe you need a new one. Something like, maybe getting a new job, a second job or can collecting.
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoft requires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
I am done quoting posts of the "pc" people on this site ( even though I am a pc and console person) you can all keep living in this realm of self delusion, consoles are as viable of a MMO platform as pc's and developers no this or they wouldnt be making them. The whole argument about dumbing them down is pointless also, there are more kids on consoles thats a fact but you underestimate how many adults own and play consoles. I myself belong to 2 communities one called Age (Adult Gaming Enthusiasts) and the other called TAG ( The Adult Gamer) made up entirely of adults with families and real lives. Almost all of us play consoles and pc games and will always enjoy both mediums. In these communities we also enjoy MMO's and would gladly play one on a console when a quality title becomes available and we would not need a "dumbed down" version and beleive neither would these kids you all speak of, the youth of today learn things in school we didnt learn till college so why do adults assume all kids are ignorant, thats not very logical. I also have to address the poster who said basically PC gamers are superior to consolers at fps and would "school" them. Hate to burst your bubble but most of the people I play online with are just as comfortable with a mouse and keyboard in there hands as a controller and would gladly show you that first hand. Also Gears of War is a console game ported to PC so your whole paragraph about that is a moot point. In the end most of the things stated here are personal opinion and personal tastes but please tell me how wrong I am.
I'm not sure what posts you're reading, but I think you might be misinterpreting some of the meanings, especially for the term "dumbing down". By saying they'll have to "dumb down" the games for consoles most people mean both the control system as well as general functionality. Having the large number of abilities available for a console game as most PC MMOs have today, would make the games extremely burdensome to play/use them. Given both the very limited number of "buttons" on console controllers and thus the small number of possible macroing/combination possibilites, most of today's MMOs would have to cut down on a very large number of abilities/functionality to be viable. That in turn could very possibly force the developers to ease up on many of the core aspects of a game.
In regards to the post about someone saying PC users are superios at FPS to console gamers, you took it the wrong way. They were saying that the speed of targetting control with a mouse/keyboard tends to be much faster than that of console controllers - and they used Gears of War as an example, claiming to hve played the game on both systems. Also, I don't think the fact that Gears of War was a console game ported to PC makes any of the previous examples it was used in moot by any means.
Thanks for taking the time to post a well thought out and intelligent reply to my post. The "dumbing down" term is a two meaning term, it can mean exactly what you were saying which I can easily see how some people would think that way becuase of the percieved limitations of the control schemes on console, the reason i would disagree with this is quite simple I can plug a mouse and keyboard into my ps3, therefore that line of reasoning isnt valid at all. Also for those who say well microsoft doesnt allow it on the 360, that doesnt matter if it can be done it will. they also no this seeing as how they have released a controler addon that is a mini keyboard.
Now my paragraph about "dumbing down" though was aimed at some I have read on these forums who have actually stated in no uncertain terms that consolers are a less intelligent demographic in the gaming communities. This should not be taken as an attack on everyone using the term dumbed down.
As to the paragraph about fps I did misread his meaning, of course a kb/mouse combo is more accurate then a controller. There are those who use controllers who would say they can hold there own against any kb/mouse player. I cant dispute this even though I do actually agree with the poster about the advantage for pc players.
Once again thanks for the reply but while my post didnt clarify itself on wich way the term dumbed down was being used I meant exactly what I said just on a different use of the term i have seen on these and other forums and not nesecarily this thread. Just blew off some steam about it here lol!
I see what you're saying about having the capability to use a keyboard/mouse with the consoles, but that doesn't necessarily mean the developers will not "dumb down" the game functions for controllers. The most likely scenario is they will scrap abilities/functions and make the UI and core game functions for controller use. I can't really imagine them making a UI for either/or peripherial use, especially since it would be a better bet that most of the console owners/users would have controllers and not have mouse/keyboard.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoft requires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.
Precisely.
Multiplayer over PC = game cost + ISP cost
Multiplayer over Live = game cost (which is often more than a PC version) + ISP cost + Live fee.
Would it have a significant effect on my income? Not at all. Is it an unnecessary expense? Most likely, especially considering how much cash Microsoft already rakes in (they wanted to buy google for HOW MUCH?!).
I'm not going to waste money on equipment with a limited shelf life and no affordable upgrade options. By that I mean consoles. When I was a child, I gamed as a child. Playing Tank Commander on Atari, Pitfall on Commodore 64, Super Mario on NES, also owned Sega Master System, Sega CD, SNES, Nin64, PS, PS2, GB, GBA etc etc but got tired of buying new consoles every year or so and that's all a console currently does is just the games and or internet browser.
I can't use Photoshop, 3DSMax, Maya, and other rendering software on a console. I build my own PCs so I can pick and choose the quality of parts, and select the software and plugins installed. I can justify component upgrades like video card and memory knowing that it will be used across all software and performance. For the self employed it would even be a tax write off to upgrade.
But the current trend of consoles with costs between $400-$800 is insane. I could build a powerful PC with that amount of money. Hell I could buy a used car for that much.
Also what about multiple monitor/display support?
The best MMO's in my opinion are the 'sandbox' type, where I can actually interact with, change, and effect the environment I game in. I don't just mean items in an inventory.
But! I still want a Wii, just because its fun going thru the motions instead of just tapping buttons.
I'm not going to waste money on equipment with a limited shelf life and no affordable upgrade options. By that I mean consoles. When I was a child, I gamed as a child. Playing Tank Commander on Atari, Pitfall on Commodore 64, Super Mario on NES, also owned Sega Master System, Sega CD, SNES, Nin64, PS, PS2, GB, GBA etc etc but got tired of buying new consoles every year or so and that's all a console currently does is just the games and or internet browser.
I can't use Photoshop, 3DSMax, Maya, and other rendering software on a console. I build my own PCs so I can pick and choose the quality of parts, and select the software and plugins installed. I can justify component upgrades like video card and memory knowing that it will be used across all software and performance. For the self employed it would even be a tax write off to upgrade.
/yawn this discussion is about gaming...
To reach the point, turn back, and after 2 miles turn left, bon voyage!
why dont you "games for consoles dont need to be dumbed down" people dont have a look at games that allready are out for consoles and pc ?
for example look at unreal 3
you can play it on console and on pc
both are the same ... well nearly ... on ps3 are less players possible, lesser view distance, smaller maps, .....
for me that sounds like "dumbed down" to fit on a console
or look at THE ELDER SCROLLS 4 : OBLIVION
its nearly exact the same on pc and console and thats extremly horrible
i bought a game for my pc and got trapped with a game reduced to be controllable with a gamepad
compare ELDER SCROLLS 3 with ELDER SCROLLS 4 ... yes the gfx seems to be improved -- character custumisation in terms of clothing / equipment and displaying it got massivly reduced like many of the gamemechanics
so please just make a reality check before claiming that games do not need to / will not be dumbed down if they aim for the pc and console market
Why does everyone always complain about XBOX Live costing money??? If you can not afford the $50 for a year....or is it $40 for 13 months? I forget maybe you need to get a job and not be playing so many games cmon, thats dirt cheap if you cant afford the 3 or 4 dollars a month to spend on your hobby, maybe you need a new one. Something like, maybe getting a new job, a second job or can collecting.
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoftrequires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.
There is NO requirement, They do not Require you to purchase a membership. I can buy a 360 and a game and play it WITHOUT a internet connection. If I want to get game updates and play online against people around the world, then I would be required to pay the $3 or $4 a month.
I actually know a few people that do not have anything but dial up. They enjoy thier 360 extremely well.
I know everybody hates Microsoft.
and about the extra hand grabbing your money, think about that next time you pay 14.95 a month for a mmorpg that is not even 50% complete and full of game breaking bugs. Its the norm nowadays. just take a look tothe left and see all these horrible games that charge a monthly fee....not enough? check the games list.
Why does everyone always complain about XBOX Live costing money??? If you can not afford the $50 for a year....or is it $40 for 13 months? I forget maybe you need to get a job and not be playing so many games cmon, thats dirt cheap if you cant afford the 3 or 4 dollars a month to spend on your hobby, maybe you need a new one. Something like, maybe getting a new job, a second job or can collecting.
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoftrequires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.
There is NO requirement, They do not Require you to purchase a membership. I can buy a 360 and a game and play it WITHOUT a internet connection. If I want to get game updates and play online against people around the world, then I would be required to pay the $3 or $4 a month.
I actually know a few people that do not have anything but dial up. They enjoy thier 360 extremely well.
I know everybody hates Microsoft.
and about the extra hand grabbing your money, think about that next time you pay 14.95 a month for a mmorpg that is not even 50% complete and full of game breaking bugs. Its the norm nowadays. just take a look tothe left and see all these horrible games that charge a monthly fee....not enough? check the games list.
But you forget that we're discussing this in relation to MMOs. You can't play MMOs without connecting to the internet. To that on the 360 requires you pay for Xbox Live.
As for your comment ab out the 14.95, do you really think that'd change at all if MMOs moved to consoles? If anything they'd probably increase, considering most title made for both PC and consoles cost more for the console versions these days. Also, do you honestly think their development and quality would be any different? If you do then I'd like to live your fantasy land as well. It's obvious you don't care much for MMOs, which is fine - that's your choice. But the topic here isn't whether or not you like to play them, it's whether moving them to consoles is really a viable and intelligent move for the genre.
Oh, and for the record I don't hate Microsoft - but I do dislike companies adding on additional charges for services you're pretty much already paying for. I already pay for my ISP, I see no reason for having to pay anything additional to use it via any other product. /shrug
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Why does everyone always complain about XBOX Live costing money??? If you can not afford the $50 for a year....or is it $40 for 13 months? I forget maybe you need to get a job and not be playing so many games cmon, thats dirt cheap if you cant afford the 3 or 4 dollars a month to spend on your hobby, maybe you need a new one. Something like, maybe getting a new job, a second job or can collecting.
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoftrequires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.
There is NO requirement, They do not Require you to purchase a membership. I can buy a 360 and a game and play it WITHOUT a internet connection. If I want to get game updates and play online against people around the world, then I would be required to pay the $3 or $4 a month.
I actually know a few people that do not have anything but dial up. They enjoy thier 360 extremely well.
I know everybody hates Microsoft.
and about the extra hand grabbing your money, think about that next time you pay 14.95 a month for a mmorpg that is not even 50% complete and full of game breaking bugs. Its the norm nowadays. just take a look tothe left and see all these horrible games that charge a monthly fee....not enough? check the games list.
But you forget that we're discussing this in relation to MMOs. You can't play MMOs without connecting to the internet. To that on the 360 requires you pay for Xbox Live.
As for your comment ab out the 14.95, do you really think that'd change at all if MMOs moved to consoles? If anything they'd probably increase, considering most title made for both PC and consoles cost more for the console versions these days. Also, do you honestly think their development and quality would be any different? If you do then I'd like to live your fantasy land as well. It's obvious you don't care much for MMOs, which is fine - that's your choice. But the topic here isn't whether or not you like to play them, it's whether moving them to consoles is really a viable and intelligent move for the genre.
Oh, and for the record I don't hate Microsoft - but I do dislike companies adding on additional charges for services you're pretty much already paying for. I already pay for my ISP, I see no reason for having to pay anything additional to use it via any other product. /shrug
Complain all you want about spending a couple dollars a month.
Fact of the matter is
CONSOLES are the way of the future for mmorpg and thats what this thread is about.
Comments
Couldn't agree more with Lazarus. PC and colsoles are both great for pretty much all game types including MMO's. It's all based on opinion. I say bring all MMO's to as many different systems as possible. More players, more money for the companies and overall, a better gaming experience for everyone. Of course you will have to deal with immature players with bad attitudes, but hey, thats a part of life and you will experience the exact same thing anywhere else in games and out. :P Just enjoy and play the games you love. Why care if they go to other systems? It really confuses me.
Erm, this point of view really confuses me... Why would using a control pad and mics over Live (or whatever) to commicate be any 'dumber' then using a mouse/ keyboard and Vent? Does it effect lore? Plot? Characterisation? Difficulty or complexity level?
The answer is, of course, no.
Not just that,but they could add keyboard / mouse for the systems. XBOX360 does have a USB port you know.I myself can't wait for when mmo's go on consoles. Playing on my 52 inch TV and sitting on my couch will make my day.
This is what I can't understand.I would have no compunction about the death of the PC as a gaming platform if console makers would just give up on their stupid obsession with boxing out keyboard/mouse play.
Consoles, afterall, are nothing more than standardized computers. They have now broken the resolution barrier that previously existed, and little really stands in the way of them being a viable replacement for PCs as gaming platforms, other than this historical aversion to expanding control flexibility.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Um, welcome to 2008?
What is with all the angst regarding MMO's on consoles?
The two leading consoles this gen can pretty easily run anything that runs on a PC. With 5.1 sound and 1920x1080 resolutions the experience is pretty comparable.
"Dumbed down"? WTF? Like WoW isn't already dumbed down? What are you talking about? Younger players on consoles? Better community? Again, wtf are you on about? LIke WoW is populated exclusively by middle aged, well-behaved, polite professionals?
As you all might recall, there is a pretty significant MMO already running on consoles. Final Fantasy not only runs on xbox but even old PS2s and guess what, they share the exact same identical world with players on PC. Are the graphics the same? No (but they are last gen consoles). Is the rest of the game pretty much identical? Yes. Have consoles improved drastically compared to what FF used to run on? You better believe it.
The only major difference now is controls and MS could easily enable keyboard/mouse on the 360 and PS3 already supports it. So, uh, what other reasons do you have that aren't 5 year old and inapplicable anymore?
Pull your collective heads out of your butts and look around, console /= NIntendo 64 anymore. There are close to 10 million Xbox 360's out there. If you only got 10% of them to play it would be the second biggest MMO in production. To me that just screams "come sell me something that you can charge me for every single month"!
Well said!
No signature, I don't have a pen
Microsoft Live already charges you a hefty chunk of change every month. Plus all the problems of patching, etc....Well said!
So a PC player pays 15 bucks a month, and has pretty much unlimited uploading/downloading. The XBox player pays 15 bucks a month, plus 8 bucks a month (XBox Live Gold), and doesn't get to do anything much on the internet...
That to me... screams "Buy a PC and use THAT." Heh.
I never will go exclusively to console in any event but it it did....*shakes finger* You just try me..I'll be gone like that! *snaps fingers*
I'm not sure what posts you're reading, but I think you might be misinterpreting some of the meanings, especially for the term "dumbing down". By saying they'll have to "dumb down" the games for consoles most people mean both the control system as well as general functionality. Having the large number of abilities available for a console game as most PC MMOs have today, would make the games extremely burdensome to play/use them. Given both the very limited number of "buttons" on console controllers and thus the small number of possible macroing/combination possibilites, most of today's MMOs would have to cut down on a very large number of abilities/functionality to be viable. That in turn could very possibly force the developers to ease up on many of the core aspects of a game.
In regards to the post about someone saying PC users are superios at FPS to console gamers, you took it the wrong way. They were saying that the speed of targetting control with a mouse/keyboard tends to be much faster than that of console controllers - and they used Gears of War as an example, claiming to hve played the game on both systems. Also, I don't think the fact that Gears of War was a console game ported to PC makes any of the previous examples it was used in moot by any means.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
I'm not sure what posts you're reading, but I think you might be misinterpreting some of the meanings, especially for the term "dumbing down". By saying they'll have to "dumb down" the games for consoles most people mean both the control system as well as general functionality. Having the large number of abilities available for a console game as most PC MMOs have today, would make the games extremely burdensome to play/use them. Given both the very limited number of "buttons" on console controllers and thus the small number of possible macroing/combination possibilites, most of today's MMOs would have to cut down on a very large number of abilities/functionality to be viable. That in turn could very possibly force the developers to ease up on many of the core aspects of a game.
In regards to the post about someone saying PC users are superios at FPS to console gamers, you took it the wrong way. They were saying that the speed of targetting control with a mouse/keyboard tends to be much faster than that of console controllers - and they used Gears of War as an example, claiming to hve played the game on both systems. Also, I don't think the fact that Gears of War was a console game ported to PC makes any of the previous examples it was used in moot by any means.
Thanks for taking the time to post a well thought out and intelligent reply to my post. The "dumbing down" term is a two meaning term, it can mean exactly what you were saying which I can easily see how some people would think that way becuase of the percieved limitations of the control schemes on console, the reason i would disagree with this is quite simple I can plug a mouse and keyboard into my ps3, therefore that line of reasoning isnt valid at all. Also for those who say well microsoft doesnt allow it on the 360, that doesnt matter if it can be done it will. they also no this seeing as how they have released a controler addon that is a mini keyboard.
Now my paragraph about "dumbing down" though was aimed at some I have read on these forums who have actually stated in no uncertain terms that consolers are a less intelligent demographic in the gaming communities. This should not be taken as an attack on everyone using the term dumbed down.
As to the paragraph about fps I did misread his meaning, of course a kb/mouse combo is more accurate then a controller. There are those who use controllers who would say they can hold there own against any kb/mouse player. I cant dispute this even though I do actually agree with the poster about the advantage for pc players.
Once again thanks for the reply but while my post didnt clarify itself on wich way the term dumbed down was being used I meant exactly what I said just on a different use of the term i have seen on these and other forums and not nesecarily this thread. Just blew off some steam about it here lol!
No signature, I don't have a pen
Or you could buy a PS3 or a Wii and download game demos, surf the web, play games online or whatever for free just like in PC land. PS3 is actually even going to come bundled with a free MMOish sort of experience in a few months (Home). Which strikes me as pretty nutty since you can't get to the web at all on a 360. Nice how MS manages to charge more for fewer options.
Also, MMOs on the X-box 360 don't require a gold account, so your point is utterly moot with respect to MMOs (the topic of this thread, after all). A free silver account is all you need to get to go online with PSU or FFXI.
Why do I get the feeling that the pro PC guys in this thread know barely anything about consoles . . .
Also, the latest Penny Arcade blog post is somewhat relevant:
www.penny-arcade.com/2008/02/27
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
When people point to "better Action!" and "more realistic Combat!" as desireable advantages of consoles, they're advocating the very things that mmogs are NOT - action fighting games. Many consolers don't seem to understand that mmogs are different from Shooters and Fighting games.
Console makes have offered keyboards since the 2600. Some of them offered mice. They are not good sellers.
Why, you ask? Because a keyboard and mouse needs a desk, which is totally antithetical to where the console is designed to operate from (the living room on a sofa with the primere television in the household from 4'-9' away).
Console games are all about cinematic experiences (sights and sounds). MMOs, quite frankly, have never been able to match console cinematics and ambiance. Nor can they, because MMOs are all about organizing bits and pieces of information on your screen. They are text-intensive and detail-oriented games, which requires an environment that is condusive to this sort of task. The living room ain't that place. Not from 4'-9' away, balancing a keyboard on your lap, with no flat surface available.
You see, the problem with these sorts of games on consoles isn't that the technology isn't there. The problem is that the environment the console occupies isn't set up for marathon sessions sifting through data. If it were, you'd do your quickbooks on your plasma, and your word processing from your sofa.
There is a reason you go to your desk to do those types of things, and that's because the wife wants to watch Oprah, your kids want to watch Sesame Street, and your dad wants to watch DVDs. It's a total disruption for long term activities that require sorting through lots of details quickly.
Broadband access? That's easy for consoles. Mapping to controllers? Can do. Using keyboards and mice? Entirely possible. The problem isn't the capability. The problem, as I see it, is the space and place the console operates from is totally incondusive to the sorts of tasks that separate MMOs from, say, action games or FPS.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
All very valid points, the only problem is people have marathon sessions now on consoles in the games they play on them, including myself. I personally have played FFXI on my 360 and had no problems using a keybord to do the typing, and if I did choose to use a mouse on one of the console platforms, I have a very easy and inexpensive tilting tv stand that works great for this very purpose. In fact I have used my laptop on it numreous times. Also lets think about what you said about the enviroment itself not being condusive to long sessions required in an mmo hmm.........More comfortable-Setting on my huge and cushy sofa for 4 hours or sitting at my stiff backed computer chair, not even a contest lol.
No signature, I don't have a pen
I really hope they can work it out as it is more comfortable sprauled on my bed
Personally, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of big MMO names on the consoles. I believe it could be a big step for MMOs as a genre. Let's face it, the MMO market is not evolving at all quickly. They all share basically the same rigid formula that EQ adopted from MUDs. While things like customizable interfaces and such have seen some evolution, the basic progression and combat have not really progressed in any meaningful way.
I believe the move towards console gaming will breathe more life into the genre as developers experiment with different gameplay and control models to better adapt to a console and its controller. I am already interested by some things I have read about The Agency, and I am eager to hear more about its gameplay formula, which I hear is definitely not the norm for a MMO.
As for many of the remarks I have read in this thread, I don't agree with many of the arguments. Kids? There are plenty of us geezers around who have been playing arcade, PC, and console games since the BBS and Pong days. Personally, I find these "kids" (which are usually adults acting like kids) in all gaming arenas from Quakeworld days through all MMOs.
As for dumbing down the gameplay, I expect the exact opposite effect to happen eventually. The gameplay will end up evolving, FINALLY.
I'm getting a bit tired of the MMO genre as it is (like I said, not evolving -- as is evidenced by many of the cancellations many of which I was testing and agreed should be cancelled). And there really isn't much of a difference between buying a new console every X years or upgrading my PC every X/2 years. And hey, these days I am enjoying gaming on my big Flat Screen more than my PC.
I actually just bought a PS2 game the other day. And guess what? I didn't have to have my PS2 to play it, because my PS3 plays it just fine. ;-)
However, I still do not like having to pay for X-box Live. I'll give ya that one!
Controller limitation? I dunno. I have seen some very clever console interfaces, and again I believe it may push the genre to new mechanics that even the PC MMOs may adopt. Besides, if we can have drums and guitars on the consoles, I'm sure a MMO could release a specialized controller as well.
Lastly, one thing we should take from the success of the Wii in the current market is that which we gamers have been preaching all along: gameplay, availability, and ease-of-use > horsepower. The 360 and PS3 have really nice graphics. I don't feel a need to rush on to the next Nvidia offering anytime soon.
Why does everyone always complain about XBOX Live costing money???
If you can not afford the $50 for a year....or is it $40 for 13 months? I forget
maybe you need to get a job and not be playing so many games
cmon, thats dirt cheap
if you cant afford the 3 or 4 dollars a month to spend on your hobby, maybe you need a new one. Something like, maybe getting a new job, a second job or can collecting.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
I'm not sure what posts you're reading, but I think you might be misinterpreting some of the meanings, especially for the term "dumbing down". By saying they'll have to "dumb down" the games for consoles most people mean both the control system as well as general functionality. Having the large number of abilities available for a console game as most PC MMOs have today, would make the games extremely burdensome to play/use them. Given both the very limited number of "buttons" on console controllers and thus the small number of possible macroing/combination possibilites, most of today's MMOs would have to cut down on a very large number of abilities/functionality to be viable. That in turn could very possibly force the developers to ease up on many of the core aspects of a game.
In regards to the post about someone saying PC users are superios at FPS to console gamers, you took it the wrong way. They were saying that the speed of targetting control with a mouse/keyboard tends to be much faster than that of console controllers - and they used Gears of War as an example, claiming to hve played the game on both systems. Also, I don't think the fact that Gears of War was a console game ported to PC makes any of the previous examples it was used in moot by any means.
Thanks for taking the time to post a well thought out and intelligent reply to my post. The "dumbing down" term is a two meaning term, it can mean exactly what you were saying which I can easily see how some people would think that way becuase of the percieved limitations of the control schemes on console, the reason i would disagree with this is quite simple I can plug a mouse and keyboard into my ps3, therefore that line of reasoning isnt valid at all. Also for those who say well microsoft doesnt allow it on the 360, that doesnt matter if it can be done it will. they also no this seeing as how they have released a controler addon that is a mini keyboard.
Now my paragraph about "dumbing down" though was aimed at some I have read on these forums who have actually stated in no uncertain terms that consolers are a less intelligent demographic in the gaming communities. This should not be taken as an attack on everyone using the term dumbed down.
As to the paragraph about fps I did misread his meaning, of course a kb/mouse combo is more accurate then a controller. There are those who use controllers who would say they can hold there own against any kb/mouse player. I cant dispute this even though I do actually agree with the poster about the advantage for pc players.
Once again thanks for the reply but while my post didnt clarify itself on wich way the term dumbed down was being used I meant exactly what I said just on a different use of the term i have seen on these and other forums and not nesecarily this thread. Just blew off some steam about it here lol!
I see what you're saying about having the capability to use a keyboard/mouse with the consoles, but that doesn't necessarily mean the developers will not "dumb down" the game functions for controllers. The most likely scenario is they will scrap abilities/functions and make the UI and core game functions for controller use. I can't really imagine them making a UI for either/or peripherial use, especially since it would be a better bet that most of the console owners/users would have controllers and not have mouse/keyboard.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Multiplayer over PC = game cost + ISP cost
Multiplayer over Live = game cost (which is often more than a PC version) + ISP cost + Live fee.
Would it have a significant effect on my income? Not at all. Is it an unnecessary expense? Most likely, especially considering how much cash Microsoft already rakes in (they wanted to buy google for HOW MUCH?!).
I'm not going to waste money on equipment with a limited shelf life and no affordable upgrade options. By that I mean consoles. When I was a child, I gamed as a child. Playing Tank Commander on Atari, Pitfall on Commodore 64, Super Mario on NES, also owned Sega Master System, Sega CD, SNES, Nin64, PS, PS2, GB, GBA etc etc but got tired of buying new consoles every year or so and that's all a console currently does is just the games and or internet browser.
I can't use Photoshop, 3DSMax, Maya, and other rendering software on a console. I build my own PCs so I can pick and choose the quality of parts, and select the software and plugins installed. I can justify component upgrades like video card and memory knowing that it will be used across all software and performance. For the self employed it would even be a tax write off to upgrade.
But the current trend of consoles with costs between $400-$800 is insane. I could build a powerful PC with that amount of money. Hell I could buy a used car for that much.
Also what about multiple monitor/display support?
The best MMO's in my opinion are the 'sandbox' type, where I can actually interact with, change, and effect the environment I game in. I don't just mean items in an inventory.
But! I still want a Wii, just because its fun going thru the motions instead of just tapping buttons.
UO,EQ,AC,AO,DAoC,Lin,RoE,E&B,SB,EVE,PS,SL,SWG,TT,FFXI,
HZ,CoH,L2,Ryz,EQ2,WoW,GW,RF,DDO,SR,FoM,Van,
/yawn this discussion is about gaming...
To reach the point, turn back, and after 2 miles turn left, bon voyage!
why dont you "games for consoles dont need to be dumbed down" people dont have a look at games that allready are out for consoles and pc ?
for example look at unreal 3
you can play it on console and on pc
both are the same ... well nearly ... on ps3 are less players possible, lesser view distance, smaller maps, .....
for me that sounds like "dumbed down" to fit on a console
or look at THE ELDER SCROLLS 4 : OBLIVION
its nearly exact the same on pc and console and thats extremly horrible
i bought a game for my pc and got trapped with a game reduced to be controllable with a gamepad
compare ELDER SCROLLS 3 with ELDER SCROLLS 4 ... yes the gfx seems to be improved -- character custumisation in terms of clothing / equipment and displaying it got massivly reduced like many of the gamemechanics
so please just make a reality check before claiming that games do not need to / will not be dumbed down if they aim for the pc and console market
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoft requires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.There is NO requirement, They do not Require you to purchase a membership. I can buy a 360 and a game and play it WITHOUT a internet connection. If I want to get game updates and play online against people around the world, then I would be required to pay the $3 or $4 a month.
I actually know a few people that do not have anything but dial up. They enjoy thier 360 extremely well.
I know everybody hates Microsoft.
and about the extra hand grabbing your money, think about that next time you pay 14.95 a month for a mmorpg that is not even 50% complete and full of game breaking bugs. Its the norm nowadays. just take a look tothe left and see all these horrible games that charge a monthly fee....not enough? check the games list.
It's not the cost of it that is the problem I believe, it's the fact that Microsoft requires you to pay for it to use their games/products via the console. It's really nothing more than an extra hand to grab your money - if it wasn't then MS would require it for use of all their mediums: in Windows to access the internet, for their PC games, etc. It's a "bs" charge they've added to consoles, especially given how much the consoles are becoming more like PCs with each new generation. I view it as akin to my paying for the use of AOL or MSN while using something else for your ISP, except MS forces you to do it if you want to play/purchase console games that use/need an internet connection.There is NO requirement, They do not Require you to purchase a membership. I can buy a 360 and a game and play it WITHOUT a internet connection. If I want to get game updates and play online against people around the world, then I would be required to pay the $3 or $4 a month.
I actually know a few people that do not have anything but dial up. They enjoy thier 360 extremely well.
I know everybody hates Microsoft.
and about the extra hand grabbing your money, think about that next time you pay 14.95 a month for a mmorpg that is not even 50% complete and full of game breaking bugs. Its the norm nowadays. just take a look tothe left and see all these horrible games that charge a monthly fee....not enough? check the games list.
But you forget that we're discussing this in relation to MMOs. You can't play MMOs without connecting to the internet. To that on the 360 requires you pay for Xbox Live.
As for your comment ab out the 14.95, do you really think that'd change at all if MMOs moved to consoles? If anything they'd probably increase, considering most title made for both PC and consoles cost more for the console versions these days. Also, do you honestly think their development and quality would be any different? If you do then I'd like to live your fantasy land as well.
It's obvious you don't care much for MMOs, which is fine - that's your choice. But the topic here isn't whether or not you like to play them, it's whether moving them to consoles is really a viable and intelligent move for the genre.
Oh, and for the record I don't hate Microsoft - but I do dislike companies adding on additional charges for services you're pretty much already paying for. I already pay for my ISP, I see no reason for having to pay anything additional to use it via any other product. /shrug
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
There is NO requirement, They do not Require you to purchase a membership. I can buy a 360 and a game and play it WITHOUT a internet connection. If I want to get game updates and play online against people around the world, then I would be required to pay the $3 or $4 a month.
I actually know a few people that do not have anything but dial up. They enjoy thier 360 extremely well.
I know everybody hates Microsoft.
and about the extra hand grabbing your money, think about that next time you pay 14.95 a month for a mmorpg that is not even 50% complete and full of game breaking bugs. Its the norm nowadays. just take a look tothe left and see all these horrible games that charge a monthly fee....not enough? check the games list.
But you forget that we're discussing this in relation to MMOs. You can't play MMOs without connecting to the internet. To that on the 360 requires you pay for Xbox Live.
As for your comment ab out the 14.95, do you really think that'd change at all if MMOs moved to consoles? If anything they'd probably increase, considering most title made for both PC and consoles cost more for the console versions these days. Also, do you honestly think their development and quality would be any different? If you do then I'd like to live your fantasy land as well.
It's obvious you don't care much for MMOs, which is fine - that's your choice. But the topic here isn't whether or not you like to play them, it's whether moving them to consoles is really a viable and intelligent move for the genre.
Oh, and for the record I don't hate Microsoft - but I do dislike companies adding on additional charges for services you're pretty much already paying for. I already pay for my ISP, I see no reason for having to pay anything additional to use it via any other product. /shrug
Complain all you want about spending a couple dollars a month.
Fact of the matter is
CONSOLES are the way of the future for mmorpg and thats what this thread is about.
Your arguments are mute