Why do people want a DP its simple. We cant impact the world without a DP. Think about PVP where lowbies are adventuring and doing quests. Along comes a high level and kills them all. Because there is no DP, he just sits there and kills them ALL DAY long. The newbies scream and some anti-PKs arrive to deal with the griefer. After about 10 minutes they notice he not returning so they leave. The griefer decloaks (he's a rogue), and renews his killing spree with new ZEAL!
Now Imagine Age of Conan with a DP: Same scenario. The veteran is torturing the newbies, killing every lowbie in sight. Along comes the anti-PKs. They kill the high level and guess what- because the high level was a GRIEFer all his loot is now player lootable. The anti-PKs can now pick through all his loot. You think that guy will be back? Most likely not. Because there is no consequences for actions we see rampant griefing. It's easy, we want a harsh DP because that is the only way to get impact
Exactly Vaj. Death penalties force players to think of the consequences of their actions, and to actively work towards not dying with their every move. Its a far more realistic manner of looking at combat and the world.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
with a harsh DP, i believe that a sincere "fight or flight" responce is triggered in the player... which leads to better immersion and a better gameplay experience.
i loved eq yeah it sucked when you died, but that pushes you to be a better, crafty, intuitive player, which is awsome. if you died so much that you lost levels you weren't paying attention because you weren't properly immersed... which is the essence of ROLE PLAYING which i think is the huge portion of what has "happened" to our games.
they ceased being MMO RPG's and became MMO's...
age of conan needs one server with a harsh DP, and close to FULL LOOT. this would be the most REAL RPG server ever.
IRL if you get jumped in the woods, they kill you, that sucks, they take your loot, that sucks, you reincarnate, get revenge, that rulz0rgs....
Conan Theory is about brutality, death and conquering , physical and mental anquish LotrO is about The Light, friends,alliance,good will and the commin together to fight a great evil. 2 different game theorys, LotrO already released as proven itself to follow the theory .( you lose exp and get damaged to equipment in LortO when you die, so your information is old also you don't die in LotrO, you are defeated and you retreat.) Conan is about the brutality of life, becoming your own enemy, killing, raping,stealing... the death pentalty should reflect that .
And Conan the product has the goal fo pulling in the most players.
More people are out off by harsh DP then those that demand one.
$$ talks, not idealism of the E-Peen crowd.
BESIDES, this game is gonna go after the X360 crowd, that means it is be nature a casual friendly game. All you hardcore players are in for a NASTY shock.
It gives you a sense of ownership, a sense of reality. To me it makes me understand that my actions have consequences. I think it makes me feel like more a part of the world, and more immersed. Sure of course it is going to make you angry when you die, but I think that after you get over it you've learned and experienced something. Not to mention, call my crazy, but some corpse runs in EQ were just plain funny.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
It gives you a sense of ownership, a sense of reality. To me it makes me understand that my actions have consequences. I think it makes me feel like more a part of the world, and more immersed. Sure of course it is going to make you angry when you die, but I think that after you get over it you've learned and experienced something. Not to mention, call my crazy, but some corpse runs in EQ were just plain funny.
/agree
Sadly the kids(players) nowadays don't understand the concept and joy of earning your way and paying your dues. They want everything now without consequences or effort. There is just no explaining it to them.
Whats so hard about putting a slider in the options sections that allows a player to select his/her difficulty level so that everyone can be catered to ?
one reason a slider isn't going to help is it makes the game unbalanced.
In EQ when you died and needed help everyone would pretty much go out of their way to help because you always knew you are gonna need help someday and it just makes people more helpful. I can't count the number of times i helped people with CR. If the death penalty was optional I'm sure that people wouldn't be helpful and people wouldn't use it.
A death penalty is good it makes players help each other more.
Conan Theory is about brutality, death and conquering , physical and mental anquish LotrO is about The Light, friends,alliance,good will and the commin together to fight a great evil. 2 different game theorys, LotrO already released as proven itself to follow the theory .( you lose exp and get damaged to equipment in LortO when you die, so your information is old also you don't die in LotrO, you are defeated and you retreat.) Conan is about the brutality of life, becoming your own enemy, killing, raping,stealing... the death pentalty should reflect that .
And Conan the product has the goal fo pulling in the most players.
More people are out off by harsh DP then those that demand one.
$$ talks, not idealism of the E-Peen crowd.
BESIDES, this game is gonna go after the X360 crowd, that means it is be nature a casual friendly game. All you hardcore players are in for a NASTY shock.
EVE Online pwns City of heroes and LOTRO last population reports Ive seen
Dont say WoW- which no other game can even come close too. WoW was #1 the day it hit the stands according to reports ive read (yes look it up its true). Us Blizzard fans have a funny habit of buying their titles w/o even playing it. Startcraft and Warcraft RTS earned our loyalty
Brng up a real MMO that had to FIGHT from being unknown. only 5k subs then GREW to almost 300k. that is EVE Online
City of heroes was 194k at launch and dropped every month til this day only what 130k? read the ncsoft quarterly repports friend
EVE Online > CoH and LOTRO
Turbine has a BIG IP with Lord of the rings. I dont blame them knowing what they went through but I think its kinda bad EVE has gotten the upper hand.
Bring up some other middleweight division MMOs let's compare their quarterly reports from their publishers to CCP/EVE. Before WoW came, 200k was considered a huge success for an MMO
Anyone got the numbers for Tabula Rasa? Dont make me go d/l the NCSoft quarterly report I bet EVE Online smoked them hard.
See, a funny thing about MMOs with no item decay / turnover. Their economy goes to CRAP. WoW is hiding it via the expansions but most smaller companies cant churn out new loot like Blizzard can
But thats okay just give me a server with a death penalty and you can have your lite servers. Watch what server is still kicking ten years later ---> points to AC1 darktide and UO
Perhaps this is discussed elsewhere on these forums, but I have a simple question regarding this topic.
As I have seen in many of the videos, they have introduced fatalities.
How exactally have they explained resurrection?
Seeying that at times limbs are severed and player are decapitated.
If they have found a way to realistically explain the possibilty of survival and regeneration of limbs after such an incident I would love to take the explaination and post it over on Ogrish for some friends.
(and yes I do understand other games allow you to res, but you do not lose essential body parts in battle).
Yeah I played EQ back in the day, I've lost levels to dying. No it wasn't fun, no it didn't add to the challenge, all it did was piss me right the ______ off.
MOST of us play MMO's for fun, not to be ticked off at the experience. I can handle a harder DP if I die because of my own idiocy, but the number of times that lag, bugs or the like (say my priest just disconnected as we started the big fight..) means for every "Dang it Vic, that was DUMB" death there are 2-3 more "@#($@(@#"; deaths.
I don't pay good money to suffer like that, and guess what kiddies, most people don't either. I wish each MMO would launch with a "Hardcore DP" server. If only to make a point about how few people would really play on one for extended periods of time.
Oh, throw in PVP induced DP of any real penalty. Guys, this isn't the days of UO and EQ, welcome to reality, people play for enjoyment, not for some artificial challenge foisted on them by people who need to prove their toughness in a video game.
What I have come to realize is that most people today aren't interested in playing in an online fantasy world. They only want to play in 'their' online fantasy world. The casual gamer isn't interested in challenge anymore, they are only interested in a world in which they can have everything while doing very little to get it. It is an unfortunate reality. Most people look at things like this and immediately shout, NO! They do this without even putting a thought into what kind of positive impact that it might have. Why do they do this? Obvious, it is because it is an inconvenience for them so it is bad.
Full loot is probably the most extreme case, but imagine what it could fix. The griefer first of all, now that immature player who gets enjoyment out of killing defenseless players will think twice because maybe that newbie has a big brother that will take all of their stuff. Your socially inept people will learn to make a few friends, just so things like that won't happen. Here's how you fix losing your things due to lag. If you tag a monster, or your group tags a monster, your gear isn't lootable. Not only does it fix lagging out while fighting mobs, but it also prevents players to jump you while you're fighting a mob npc and take all of your stuff. Sounds pretty simple doesn't it? It isn't. It doesn't stop someone from jumping you with some buddies. It also doesn't stop you from lagging out while engaged with another player character. If you lag out constantly, I would suggest finding another service provider as well.
How do you create a game with full loot that revolves around PvP? It's nearly impossible unless you aren't at all interested in appealing to the mass market. Unfortunately for the hardcore, most gaming companies are interested in making as much money as possible.. does that even make sense? The only game that really did it successfully was Ultima Online. However, it was a game that wasn't at all item-centric. It was skill based, and there were reputation systems that made it easier for the hero and harder for the villain. It wasn't a game based on fighting others, it was a game that was more of like a midevil fantasy sim. You could craft, be a merchant, buy and sell houses, be a fisherman, or just sit around and do nothing. You didn't have to fight to become successful. AoC isn't that kind of game. It is a gear based, raid-centric, guild warfare type of atmosphere.
So realy, what I'm trying to say is this. While I really like the idea of a harsher penalty, it really doesn't work in a game that is based on a lot of conflict. A rez sickness including temporary stat loss and possibly minimal xp loss is the most realistic penalty that you'll see. Harsh DP works, just not in this game.
Conan Theory is about brutality, death and conquering , physical and mental anquish LotrO is about The Light, friends,alliance,good will and the commin together to fight a great evil. 2 different game theorys, LotrO already released as proven itself to follow the theory .( you lose exp and get damaged to equipment in LortO when you die, so your information is old also you don't die in LotrO, you are defeated and you retreat.) Conan is about the brutality of life, becoming your own enemy, killing, raping,stealing... the death pentalty should reflect that .
And Conan the product has the goal fo pulling in the most players.
More people are out off by harsh DP then those that demand one.
$$ talks, not idealism of the E-Peen crowd.
BESIDES, this game is gonna go after the X360 crowd, that means it is be nature a casual friendly game. All you hardcore players are in for a NASTY shock.
this is the problem with mmo's go for the money and not the risk of trial and error dont know if it would work unless you try it so dont bag it untill you have
I think its going to be a money DP in all honesty. ANd probly only money thats on your person. not in your "account" because anything more will pretty much be overkill. And I would expect PVP death and PVE deaths are going to be handled differently. Like in wow. IN WoW you die by PvP not that big of deal, annoying yes. but other than that not that big of a deal. PvE dying, you lose dura on armor, which costs you money.
Plus in AoC your going to be fighting and adventuring on your own for awhile. Where the only thing around are NPCs so you will have time to get used to the combat system. So by the time you meet anyone else they will all be on the same page (technicaly) and are just as good as you, in theory .
I dont want that harsh of a DP. Harsh DP makes game's not fun to play.
There can always be a hardcore server. once you die your dead.
I hate dying, penalty or not. I will get properly pissed off if I die, so I'll go to great lengths not to, even if the game does not penalize it in terms of XP or gold.
If there's a mob on the way I cannot safely pass by, I will not charge it and see how it turns out. I will try to
gauge its strength, maybe watch it fight a couple of times... I will make a spreadsheet out of its hit & miss rates, take screenshots of its preferred attack manouvers, turn them into a Powerpoint presentation and work at it for days!!! (Well, no I won't just want to tell you that I will be cautious).
I've died thousands of times in MMOs and I assure you, I remember a great deal of them... Oh, all that rage
What I'm saying is: if you're properly immersed, you *should* be trying to avoid death anyway. And if you're not... there's a chance your problem with that game is on a more fundamental level than just the lack of death penalty itself.
And not to forget... it's just a frame of mind. The harshness of punishment is in the eye of the beholder. To me, just seeing my corpse on the ground is punishment enough. To some, running to get their corpse back is punishment enough. To others anything but permanent death is phony and an instant immersion-breaker.
Anything goes. Once I'm truly into the game, each will piss me off big-time.
Simple, I play a MMORPG to have fun. In my own opinion death penalties are not fun if AoC has one I won't play it. They should put in a switch, ie dificulty, IF you choose a death penalty the harsher the penalty the greater the exp. and rewards from the kill. Simple
That's not a bad idea but probably harder to code than just offering a server with a fixed hardcore ruleset. It always amazes me when developers just don't offer a variety of different ruleset servers to satisfy casuals and veteran players alike.
Well I'm a long time PvE player and I really like a death penalty... I remember the earliest game I played, a game called underlight. It was a heavy role playing pvp game. You didn't really have much in the way of equipment and when you died you collapsed into a soul sphere and dropped an item. You would have to run back to the central area for your avatar to reappear. There wasn't any real penalty for dying. Dying didn't really matter if you died a dozen times it was no biggy just a bother that you had to run back. Then I played the UO beta. In it you could be killed by players and your stuff looted. I was thrilled to get into beta. I logged into the game for the first time and was dead in like 30 seconds. So I made a new character and again was dead in a few sec. After about an hour of this I realized that players were camping the starting location and killing all new players before they could do anything. It sucked I logged out and deleted and never liked pvp again. Then I got into the eq beta. Now this was cool. I was in a real world. I made a barbarian rogue and ran around town and eventually found a raft crossing the water. On the trip I was a little excited and fell off the boat. I had no idea that you could swim, it was night and I coudlnt see and I didn't know how to control my character looking up and down. I drowned that day... I lost all my meager belongings. I asked someone what to do and they said my stuff is on my corpse. ok where is my corpse, they said you drowned you need ot look for it. So I learned how to swim and I waited till day. I dove in and started looking for my corpse. I found the ugly thing at the lowest spot in the bloody lake. I had to swim down, grab a couple items, swim up breath then back down. Finally I got my stuff back and you know what I was elated. Death had a meaning. This was the beginning of a long marrage with death . Next a leopard killed me. I lost some xp and carefully got my body. I eventually learned to be careful and not die. Although I did learn to fear death. I remember I was lvl 10 maybe and I was out in the everfrost tundra looking around when I found a castle. I snuck in and found these huge ice giants. I didn't come near them but was like OMG this is cool as my heart was litterally pounding in fear. I went in the castle down the passage and snuck by another giant. Then suddenly I zoned. Now I was in a cave like area. There were a couple ice goblins ahead of me. I'd killed many ice goblins and while these looked a bit different I figured what the hell and attacked them. I quickly realized these were not good goblins and were going to kill me. I was a bit disoriented and started to run. After a short run I was killed and died. I was back in halas and went to the bank and got my 10 silver I'd been clever enough to put in the bank. I had nothing. I was sad. I took my 10s and bought a fishing pole and some bait and a few beers and went and sat at the dock fishing. I was determined to fish my way back into business. Occasionally other players would wander by and wait for the raft. I'd say hi, let me tell you about a tale of woe and great adventure. I'd tell them my story and some would donate some money to my recovery. Now being as this was beta there unfortunately weren't any higher lvl people around and anyone that knew anything about permafrost. But eventually someone after hearing my story said why don't you get a couple people together and go get your corpse. I sat there stunned as it never occured to me to ask for help... So I said that would be a great idea and with my new partner and my rusty sword we set about gathering some more brave souls. Well the long and the short of it was that we gathered a group and snuck past the giants into permafrost. With the help of my group we were able to vanquish the nasty goblins and get my corpse back. I can not describe the feelings of elation and victory. Nore can I express how I bonded with these people that helped me. I stayed in contact with these people for 6-7 years. Without a death penalty none of this would have happened. In eq you always feared death. When you were sneaking through a zone trying to avoid mobs your heart was pounding you knew you could die at any time loosing your equipment and experience. When you succeeded there was a huge sense of satisfaction. I learned in eq many valuable lessons. 1. Death hurts 2. Ask for help! 3. Never blindly run when you are in shit 4. Always know where you die 5. Make friends with a bard or necro :P Now one more story... I played in eq2 the day the game launched. I was in one of the adventure zones off qeynos. Being a seasoned eq vet the death penalty in eq2 was rather meaningless in that you had to get your shard and till you did you were a little weaker, and each shard you dropped weakened you more. So I'm in this castle ruin area a bit further back where you deal with your first challenging mobs and there is this wizard that I see go running past me and up some stairs right into the mobs. I think hmm thats odd. A few minutes later she goes running back up. And a few minutes more once more. After she ran up like 5-6 times I sent her a tell and asked what she was doing? She said she died and was trying to get her shards. Being kinda amused at her apparent lack of any intelligence at all I asked he how that was working out for her... She at this point became rather cross with me and said she just kept dying. I asked her if she had considered that her strategy for getting her corpse might not be very effective after I noticed she had like 5-6 shards up there. So she asked well what the hell was she supposed to do. I said, rule number two in an MMO is to ask for help. She said she didn't know anyone. I asked if she knew about /ooc which she did.. In any event I got the few people I had in my group to invite her and we helped her get all her shards. I'd guess that she learned a lot that day. In retrospec I'd never trade my time playing eq with death penalties for a game without one. It makes the game far more satisfying and really makes you excited and fearful. I guess it's what they say, there is no ying without yang, no light without dark, no good without evil. In other words without death there is no contrast in the game and it all becomes gray. Death with a penalty creates a contrast and makes the world far more engaging. You aren't walking by a lizardman that might reset you to the start of the zone. You are walking by a god damn evil lizardman that killed you yesterday and you hate with all your heart. How many ex eq players know who dvinn is and how many of you killed him a dozen times just for spite!! Hell I even killed Fippy every time I saw that black hearted bastard. Name me any game where you actually cared about killing an NPC at all!? So why do some people like death? Because it makes life worth living.. Is dying fun? NO but then again it isn't supposed to be. Is living fun when you know you can die, Yes it is amazingly fun and thrilling and exciting.
I love this post.
It's a shame that the anti DP guys will just blow through it and not even try to understand, blind in the utter convictiction they know it all.
you know there is one more good thing about a harsh death penalty... It tends to weed out the dumb and non-social people in the game. Another good point in my opinion. Makes for a better community.
Give me a harsh death penalty any day. I do get a sense of accomplishment from finally accomplishing difficult things. I want to know that if I play well then I get the rewards I deserve for playing well; and when I play poorly I get the rewards that I deserve for playing poorly. Slap me down when I play stupid and lift me up when I play smart.
That said, most games are interested in getting the most players and therefore greatly favor systems that benefit the lowest common denominator over those that might cause some level of natural selection. One day a group of designers will realize that the latter can be the basis for a game that will attract strong players that will stay for years and years.
Yeah I played EQ back in the day, I've lost levels to dying. No it wasn't fun, no it didn't add to the challenge, all it did was piss me right the ______ off.
MOST of us play MMO's for fun, not to be ticked off at the experience. I can handle a harder DP if I die because of my own idiocy, but the number of times that lag, bugs or the like (say my priest just disconnected as we started the big fight..) means for every "Dang it Vic, that was DUMB" death there are 2-3 more "@#($@(@#"; deaths.
I don't pay good money to suffer like that, and guess what kiddies, most people don't either. I wish each MMO would launch with a "Hardcore DP" server. If only to make a point about how few people would really play on one for extended periods of time.
Oh, throw in PVP induced DP of any real penalty. Guys, this isn't the days of UO and EQ, welcome to reality, people play for enjoyment, not for some artificial challenge foisted on them by people who need to prove their toughness in a video game.
There are many simpler solutions:
1. Level Power Curve:
Does a level 50 character have to be 10-times as powerful as a level 25? That's pretty much how it is in WoW, for instance. 5 level 25s wouldn't stand a chance of fighting a single level 50 because of the way the level mechanics work.
If this was changed, it would be a lot harder for a single high level character to mess with large numbers of low levels.
2. Consentual PVP:
As long as PVP is consentual, there can be no griefing. If you want to have open PVP, simply apply the consent requirement based on level differential (i.e. PVP is non-consentual if the characters are within x levels of each other, but consentual if they are more than x levels apart).
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Comments
Exactly Vaj. Death penalties force players to think of the consequences of their actions, and to actively work towards not dying with their every move. Its a far more realistic manner of looking at combat and the world.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
with a harsh DP, i believe that a sincere "fight or flight" responce is triggered in the player... which leads to better immersion and a better gameplay experience.
i loved eq yeah it sucked when you died, but that pushes you to be a better, crafty, intuitive player, which is awsome. if you died so much that you lost levels you weren't paying attention because you weren't properly immersed... which is the essence of ROLE PLAYING which i think is the huge portion of what has "happened" to our games.
they ceased being MMO RPG's and became MMO's...
age of conan needs one server with a harsh DP, and close to FULL LOOT. this would be the most REAL RPG server ever.
IRL if you get jumped in the woods, they kill you, that sucks, they take your loot, that sucks, you reincarnate, get revenge, that rulz0rgs....
I've jumped off of cliffs in LOTRO before just to get to the resurrection point closer to town. I do this kind of thing a lot.
I would like to play a game again where I would laugh at even thinking of doing that.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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More people are out off by harsh DP then those that demand one.
$$ talks, not idealism of the E-Peen crowd.
BESIDES, this game is gonna go after the X360 crowd, that means it is be nature a casual friendly game. All you hardcore players are in for a NASTY shock.
Always change your signature.
Oh noes.
/me realization AoC will be dumbed down for consoles
It gives you a sense of ownership, a sense of reality. To me it makes me understand that my actions have consequences. I think it makes me feel like more a part of the world, and more immersed. Sure of course it is going to make you angry when you die, but I think that after you get over it you've learned and experienced something. Not to mention, call my crazy, but some corpse runs in EQ were just plain funny.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Sadly the kids(players) nowadays don't understand the concept and joy of earning your way and paying your dues. They want everything now without consequences or effort. There is just no explaining it to them.
Whats so hard about putting a slider in the options sections that allows a player to select his/her difficulty level so that everyone can be catered to ?
one reason a slider isn't going to help is it makes the game unbalanced.
In EQ when you died and needed help everyone would pretty much go out of their way to help because you always knew you are gonna need help someday and it just makes people more helpful. I can't count the number of times i helped people with CR. If the death penalty was optional I'm sure that people wouldn't be helpful and people wouldn't use it.
A death penalty is good it makes players help each other more.
---
Ethion
EVE Online pwns City of heroes and LOTRO last population reports Ive seen
Dont say WoW- which no other game can even come close too. WoW was #1 the day it hit the stands according to reports ive read (yes look it up its true). Us Blizzard fans have a funny habit of buying their titles w/o even playing it. Startcraft and Warcraft RTS earned our loyalty
Brng up a real MMO that had to FIGHT from being unknown. only 5k subs then GREW to almost 300k. that is EVE Online
City of heroes was 194k at launch and dropped every month til this day only what 130k? read the ncsoft quarterly repports friend
EVE Online > CoH and LOTRO
Turbine has a BIG IP with Lord of the rings. I dont blame them knowing what they went through but I think its kinda bad EVE has gotten the upper hand.
Bring up some other middleweight division MMOs let's compare their quarterly reports from their publishers to CCP/EVE. Before WoW came, 200k was considered a huge success for an MMO
Anyone got the numbers for Tabula Rasa? Dont make me go d/l the NCSoft quarterly report I bet EVE Online smoked them hard.
See, a funny thing about MMOs with no item decay / turnover. Their economy goes to CRAP. WoW is hiding it via the expansions but most smaller companies cant churn out new loot like Blizzard can
But thats okay just give me a server with a death penalty and you can have your lite servers. Watch what server is still kicking ten years later ---> points to AC1 darktide and UO
Perhaps this is discussed elsewhere on these forums, but I have a simple question regarding this topic.
As I have seen in many of the videos, they have introduced fatalities.
How exactally have they explained resurrection?
Seeying that at times limbs are severed and player are decapitated.
If they have found a way to realistically explain the possibilty of survival and regeneration of limbs after such an incident I would love to take the explaination and post it over on Ogrish for some friends.
(and yes I do understand other games allow you to res, but you do not lose essential body parts in battle).
Full loot is probably the most extreme case, but imagine what it could fix. The griefer first of all, now that immature player who gets enjoyment out of killing defenseless players will think twice because maybe that newbie has a big brother that will take all of their stuff. Your socially inept people will learn to make a few friends, just so things like that won't happen. Here's how you fix losing your things due to lag. If you tag a monster, or your group tags a monster, your gear isn't lootable. Not only does it fix lagging out while fighting mobs, but it also prevents players to jump you while you're fighting a mob npc and take all of your stuff. Sounds pretty simple doesn't it? It isn't. It doesn't stop someone from jumping you with some buddies. It also doesn't stop you from lagging out while engaged with another player character. If you lag out constantly, I would suggest finding another service provider as well.
How do you create a game with full loot that revolves around PvP? It's nearly impossible unless you aren't at all interested in appealing to the mass market. Unfortunately for the hardcore, most gaming companies are interested in making as much money as possible.. does that even make sense? The only game that really did it successfully was Ultima Online. However, it was a game that wasn't at all item-centric. It was skill based, and there were reputation systems that made it easier for the hero and harder for the villain. It wasn't a game based on fighting others, it was a game that was more of like a midevil fantasy sim. You could craft, be a merchant, buy and sell houses, be a fisherman, or just sit around and do nothing. You didn't have to fight to become successful. AoC isn't that kind of game. It is a gear based, raid-centric, guild warfare type of atmosphere.
So realy, what I'm trying to say is this. While I really like the idea of a harsher penalty, it really doesn't work in a game that is based on a lot of conflict. A rez sickness including temporary stat loss and possibly minimal xp loss is the most realistic penalty that you'll see. Harsh DP works, just not in this game.
Simple, I play a MMORPG to have fun.
In my own opinion death penalties are not fun if AoC has one I won't play it.
They should put in a switch, ie dificulty, IF you choose a death penalty the harsher the penalty the greater the exp. and rewards from the kill.
Simple
fear of death produces excitement, surviving from said death produces excitement.
excitement = fun
end of story
More people are out off by harsh DP then those that demand one.
$$ talks, not idealism of the E-Peen crowd.
BESIDES, this game is gonna go after the X360 crowd, that means it is be nature a casual friendly game. All you hardcore players are in for a NASTY shock.
this is the problem with mmo's go for the money and not the risk of trial and error dont know if it would work unless you try it so dont bag it untill you have
I think its going to be a money DP in all honesty. ANd probly only money thats on your person. not in your "account" because anything more will pretty much be overkill. And I would expect PVP death and PVE deaths are going to be handled differently. Like in wow. IN WoW you die by PvP not that big of deal, annoying yes. but other than that not that big of a deal. PvE dying, you lose dura on armor, which costs you money.
Plus in AoC your going to be fighting and adventuring on your own for awhile. Where the only thing around are NPCs so you will have time to get used to the combat system. So by the time you meet anyone else they will all be on the same page (technicaly) and are just as good as you, in theory
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I dont want that harsh of a DP. Harsh DP makes game's not fun to play.
There can always be a hardcore server. once you die your dead.
I hate to say it
But this game will suck.
I wanted this game to be great.
But mixing game mechanics from the 360 and the PC, will make this game suck balls.
I hate dying, penalty or not. I will get properly pissed off if I die, so I'll go to great lengths not to, even if the game does not penalize it in terms of XP or gold.
If there's a mob on the way I cannot safely pass by, I will not charge it and see how it turns out. I will try to
just want to tell you that I will be cautious).
gauge its strength, maybe watch it fight a couple of times... I will make a spreadsheet out of its hit & miss rates, take screenshots of its preferred attack manouvers, turn them into a Powerpoint presentation and work at it for days!!! (Well, no I won't
I've died thousands of times in MMOs and I assure you, I remember a great deal of them... Oh, all that rage
What I'm saying is: if you're properly immersed, you *should* be trying to avoid death anyway. And if you're not... there's a chance your problem with that game is on a more fundamental level than just the lack of death penalty itself.
And not to forget... it's just a frame of mind. The harshness of punishment is in the eye of the beholder. To me, just seeing my corpse on the ground is punishment enough. To some, running to get their corpse back is punishment enough. To others anything but permanent death is phony and an instant immersion-breaker.
Anything goes. Once I'm truly into the game, each will piss me off big-time.
That's not a bad idea but probably harder to code than just offering a server with a fixed hardcore ruleset. It always amazes me when developers just don't offer a variety of different ruleset servers to satisfy casuals and veteran players alike.
I love this post.
It's a shame that the anti DP guys will just blow through it and not even try to understand, blind in the utter convictiction they know it all.
you know there is one more good thing about a harsh death penalty... It tends to weed out the dumb and non-social people in the game. Another good point in my opinion. Makes for a better community.
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Ethion
Give me a harsh death penalty any day. I do get a sense of accomplishment from finally accomplishing difficult things. I want to know that if I play well then I get the rewards I deserve for playing well; and when I play poorly I get the rewards that I deserve for playing poorly. Slap me down when I play stupid and lift me up when I play smart.
That said, most games are interested in getting the most players and therefore greatly favor systems that benefit the lowest common denominator over those that might cause some level of natural selection. One day a group of designers will realize that the latter can be the basis for a game that will attract strong players that will stay for years and years.
Scorus
There are many simpler solutions:
1. Level Power Curve:
Does a level 50 character have to be 10-times as powerful as a level 25? That's pretty much how it is in WoW, for instance. 5 level 25s wouldn't stand a chance of fighting a single level 50 because of the way the level mechanics work.
If this was changed, it would be a lot harder for a single high level character to mess with large numbers of low levels.
2. Consentual PVP:
As long as PVP is consentual, there can be no griefing. If you want to have open PVP, simply apply the consent requirement based on level differential (i.e. PVP is non-consentual if the characters are within x levels of each other, but consentual if they are more than x levels apart).
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Prove it.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good