Aah, ic... well the graphics would suffer indeed with the smaller parts and several layers of damage, so as it is now it is way too demanding.
I was thinking of a more rp kind of thing, where each body area have a certain amount of defence and thus of course strat would mean alot when attacking, using weak spots and such. This means alot of different kind of attacks or rather layers in the attack, as a low kick with the left leg or a high strike with a sword from the right side or even aiming for different parts with a higher difficulty in success. Health would be affected as a grand total with such aspects as bloodloss, chock, pain and such so that the injuries makes it more difficult to continue to fight properly. This means a more complex core and and as you say more complex and maybe fewer monsters to begin with. But if ya do it right, the same mapping could be used for many if not all monsters, just with different degree of validity. Speed and attack rating, damage as cause of strenght ability and decrease with damage... many factors, so within the revolution it would probably take some time to implement, but not impossible...
Hehe, you're probably right in that the publishers would not like it, cause of the complexity of the game would make it harder and less appealing to kiddies...
Perhaps it would be possible to remove the health bar entirely. Ive also been curious on how a game without a complete database of numbers (ie weapon doing 25-87 dmg and u got 321 attack rating equals dmg potential 43-114 with an armorlevel of 56 blaaaablablabla). That is very nice stuff in some situations like AO, where u got sooooo many factors to put in with implants/armor/weapons/ncu/add-ons/buffs. But in a game like UO where theres no actual buffs, no items with 23 different modifiers you dont really need to know the exact number of points on every item. A more general feeling like 'whoaw this holy-stick-of-whoopass kills ghouls faster than my other stick' might be enough.
The problem here is that even though theres no hacked database, the players make their own lists and index-numbers... So for instance if you have a game that has 20 levels of damage-indicators on a certain mob, like bloody stumps for arms in the later stages. Then the playerbase will indeed make lists of what the 20 levels really mean, so when you see his left arm drop off youll know that he's got 5-6 whacks of your katana left of his life. Which is pretty much exact what you'd know if you had a health-bar... And when youve killed about 200+ of these mobs (which will be the fact in any game, the camping/grinding will always be there probably) youll know by heart how much hp he's got left even though you havent memorized the list that mr min-maxer-aholic put up on stratics
But if you let me wander a bit... I got a vision of mobs having both a health-bar AND the possibility to incapacitate the mob and deliver a death-blow even before youve kicked his chest-cavity in completely. Like if you chop the head of that snake its not gonna bite much even though you did'nt fil
Originally posted by Beldaro Perhaps it would be possible to remove the health bar entirely. Ive also been curious on how a game without a complete database of numbers (ie weapon doing 25-87 dmg and u got 321 attack rating equals dmg potential 43-114 with an armorlevel of 56 blaaaablablabla). That is very nice stuff in some situations like AO, where u got sooooo many factors to put in with implants/armor/weapons/ncu/add-ons/buffs. But in a game like UO where theres no actual buffs, no items with 23 different modifiers you dont really need to know the exact number of points on every item. A more general feeling like 'whoaw this holy-stick-of-whoopass kills ghouls faster than my other stick' might be enough. The problem here is that even though theres no hacked database, the players make their own lists and index-numbers... So for instance if you have a game that has 20 levels of damage-indicators on a certain mob, like bloody stumps for arms in the later stages. Then the playerbase will indeed make lists of what the 20 levels really mean, so when you see his left arm drop off youll know that he's got 5-6 whacks of your katana left of his life. Which is pretty much exact what you'd know if you had a health-bar... And when youve killed about 200+ of these mobs (which will be the fact in any game, the camping/grinding will always be there probably) youll know by heart how much hp he's got left even though you havent memorized the list that mr min-maxer-aholic put up on stratics But if you let me wander a bit... I got a vision of mobs having both a health-bar AND the possibility to incapacitate the mob and deliver a death-blow even before youve kicked his chest-cavity in completely. Like if you chop the head of that snake its not gonna bite much even though you did'nt fil
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
I did ask of you to let me wander a bit But i do think that its not enough with just one way to dispose of a mob/player, theres so many other ways of incapacitating creatures/entities. SWG did a nice try with their mind/action/health pools but it just ended up being almost meaningless, except in pvp... They had 3 bars instead of none so perhaps not a good example to use in this thread ^^
Even if a game had no stats at all, theres ways to let the poor nooblets know what theyre buying. The shopkeeper could easily be programmed to tell you that the 'shiny broadsword' isnt compatible with your skillzor. And with the tradeskills aspect they could do like in UO and let the smith add their name to the sword, and thru that you could perhaps know if you we're dealing with a good smith or a pathetic one... Perhaps you wouldnt know down to the last % how good it was but i dont think your character would know anyway, except if he dabbled in smithing himself.
I think that we're more or less stuck with the stats numbers and health-bars for quite a while now. People have come to expect them in every game and would just be confused if they'd haveto think for themselves suddenly. Perhaps some visionaries will develop a game without all of this, but i dont think it will be the best-seller of the year sadly. Hopefully someone else will learn from it and we'll be seeing more of stats-less games later, if we're lucky you might even be able to chop some arms off
_______________________________________________________________________________________ Stealin n Lubing since 1976
Originally posted by Beldaro Even if a game had no stats at all, theres ways to let the poor nooblets know what theyre buying. The shopkeeper could easily be programmed to tell you that the 'shiny broadsword' isnt compatible with your skillzor. And with the tradeskills aspect they could do like in UO and let the smith add their name to the sword, and thru that you could perhaps know if you we're dealing with a good smith or a pathetic one... Perhaps you wouldnt know down to the last % how good it was but i dont think your character would know anyway, except if he dabbled in smithing himself.
If the smith names it, then you get you '3 Bronze (55%) 9 wood (72%) 16 Iron (56%) Shortsword 08/08/04' or other ridiculous names that take the fun out of it a bit. It would be nice to see the creators name on the item along with 'Copper Shortsword', so that the makers of fine weaponry would become renowned, sought out by all for their good quality swords.
"I need to get a new sword, it's getting rusty" "I don't, I got this one 2 seasons ago, its an 'Ironfounderson', built to last!" "No way! 2 Seasons! Who is this 'Ironfounderson' guy anyway? Looks like im gonna need to start talking numbers with him!!"
*sigh* the joys of roleplay.
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
UO had exactly that way of showing that the item is done by a Grand-master. But sadly if you got to put your name on it, it already had the perfect stats so a Ironfoundersson was no better than a Trade-Mule-#34 sword ^^
I have more or less given up on roleplaying in mmorpgs nowadays. I keep in character mildly and have no problems discussing mechanics and numbers, its just that i more or less roleplay a modern talking character. I might not be myself, but im no Ironfoundersson
but now the topic is long gone ill be quiet ^^
_______________________________________________________________________________________ Stealin n Lubing since 1976
Comments
Aah, ic... well the graphics would suffer indeed with the smaller parts and several layers of damage, so as it is now it is way too demanding.
I was thinking of a more rp kind of thing, where each body area have a certain amount of defence and thus of course strat would mean alot when attacking, using weak spots and such. This means alot of different kind of attacks or rather layers in the attack, as a low kick with the left leg or a high strike with a sword from the right side or even aiming for different parts with a higher difficulty in success. Health would be affected as a grand total with such aspects as bloodloss, chock, pain and such so that the injuries makes it more difficult to continue to fight properly. This means a more complex core and and as you say more complex and maybe fewer monsters to begin with. But if ya do it right, the same mapping could be used for many if not all monsters, just with different degree of validity. Speed and attack rating, damage as cause of strenght ability and decrease with damage... many factors, so within the revolution it would probably take some time to implement, but not impossible...
Hehe, you're probably right in that the publishers would not like it, cause of the complexity of the game would make it harder and less appealing to kiddies...
Perhaps it would be possible to remove the health bar entirely. Ive also been curious on how a game without a complete database of numbers (ie weapon doing 25-87 dmg and u got 321 attack rating equals dmg potential 43-114 with an armorlevel of 56 blaaaablablabla). That is very nice stuff in some situations like AO, where u got sooooo many factors to put in with implants/armor/weapons/ncu/add-ons/buffs. But in a game like UO where theres no actual buffs, no items with 23 different modifiers you dont really need to know the exact number of points on every item. A more general feeling like 'whoaw this holy-stick-of-whoopass kills ghouls faster than my other stick' might be enough.
The problem here is that even though theres no hacked database, the players make their own lists and index-numbers... So for instance if you have a game that has 20 levels of damage-indicators on a certain mob, like bloody stumps for arms in the later stages. Then the playerbase will indeed make lists of what the 20 levels really mean, so when you see his left arm drop off youll know that he's got 5-6 whacks of your katana left of his life. Which is pretty much exact what you'd know if you had a health-bar... And when youve killed about 200+ of these mobs (which will be the fact in any game, the camping/grinding will always be there probably) youll know by heart how much hp he's got left even though you havent memorized the list that mr min-maxer-aholic put up on stratics
But if you let me wander a bit... I got a vision of mobs having both a health-bar AND the possibility to incapacitate the mob and deliver a death-blow even before youve kicked his chest-cavity in completely. Like if you chop the head of that snake its not gonna bite much even though you did'nt fil
_______________________________________________________________________________________
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
I did ask of you to let me wander a bit
But i do think that its not enough with just one way to dispose of a mob/player, theres so many other ways of incapacitating creatures/entities. SWG did a nice try with their mind/action/health pools but it just ended up being almost meaningless, except in pvp... They had 3 bars instead of none so perhaps not a good example to use in this thread ^^
Even if a game had no stats at all, theres ways to let the poor nooblets know what theyre buying. The shopkeeper could easily be programmed to tell you that the 'shiny broadsword' isnt compatible with your skillzor. And with the tradeskills aspect they could do like in UO and let the smith add their name to the sword, and thru that you could perhaps know if you we're dealing with a good smith or a pathetic one... Perhaps you wouldnt know down to the last % how good it was but i dont think your character would know anyway, except if he dabbled in smithing himself.
I think that we're more or less stuck with the stats numbers and health-bars for quite a while now. People have come to expect them in every game and would just be confused if they'd haveto think for themselves suddenly. Perhaps some visionaries will develop a game without all of this, but i dont think it will be the best-seller of the year sadly. Hopefully someone else will learn from it and we'll be seeing more of stats-less games later, if we're lucky you might even be able to chop some arms off
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Stealin n Lubing since 1976 
_______________________________________________________________________________________
If the smith names it, then you get you '3 Bronze (55%) 9 wood (72%) 16 Iron (56%) Shortsword 08/08/04' or other ridiculous names that take the fun out of it a bit. It would be nice to see the creators name on the item along with 'Copper Shortsword', so that the makers of fine weaponry would become renowned, sought out by all for their good quality swords.
"I need to get a new sword, it's getting rusty"
"I don't, I got this one 2 seasons ago, its an 'Ironfounderson', built to last!"
"No way! 2 Seasons! Who is this 'Ironfounderson' guy anyway? Looks like im gonna need to start talking numbers with him!!"
*sigh* the joys of roleplay.
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
UO had exactly that way of showing that the item is done by a Grand-master. But sadly if you got to put your name on it, it already had the perfect stats so a Ironfoundersson was no better than a Trade-Mule-#34 sword ^^
I have more or less given up on roleplaying in mmorpgs nowadays. I keep in character mildly and have no problems discussing mechanics and numbers, its just that i more or less roleplay a modern talking character. I might not be myself, but im no Ironfoundersson
but now the topic is long gone
ill be quiet ^^
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Stealin n Lubing since 1976 
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