Meh WoW's pvp was quite wretched, especially Arena. In the small 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 matches you really see how gear dependent the game is. Ok there is "some" skill to it, but skill quickly fades to gear. You can say what you want, but I played the game for years and I know what gear does for you in WoW. If you don't believe, go get some old of the boar gear off the AH and wear it during your next 10 matches and let's see how that works out for ya.
I thought WSG was the only really good PvP concept they had, and let's face it WoW didn't invent capture the flag...... the other PvP events had very little strategy. Arena was the worst, like I said, because it all came down to "beat dem up." Ok there was some strat... aka who to kill first, but for the most part that was pretty elementary.
Yes better geared opponents will beat lesser geared opponents most of the time. However you are overstating this, because gear comes in tiers and you are quite often matched to players with the same tiers of gear as you.
There is so much you can do wrong in PvP, so much you can fail to do correctly. The amount of times I've seen players just try to spam their abilities instead of working to counter the abilities of their opponents, using distance, line of sight, CC, counter CC, and watch them fail - not because they had inferior gear, but because they were outsmarted.
There are diminishing returns on gear, the difference between 200 and 300 resilience gear is a matter of a small percent - a percentage that can be mitigated entirely by working better as a team.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
In the arenas, there are no major gear gaps, since you're matched up with similar geared folks. ANyone who blames gear is just not a good player. The biggest excuse in WOW PvP is instantly blaming gear. Its like blaming the teacher that you failed a class, blaming Budweiser when you get in an accident because you were drunk or sue the guy you're robbing because you slip and fall on their front porch. If you lose in the arenas, its all on you and your team mates. Nothing more. If you think it takes no skill(in MMO terms) its because you have none. Quite simple.
Lol...WoW pvp is gear first, then skill second...Always has been, always will be it seems. Besides, if you want real skillbased pvp go play an online shooter, compete in a real life sport, engage in any twitchbased event, either videogame or real life against another person, build a house, cure cancer, win the cup(ManU ftw ) and so on. That take skill, not the buttonmashing we do to eachother in different mmo's. It do take knowledge most of the time to win yes, but skill...no!
If you think that PvP in WoW is only gear based you are not very good at PvP. I'm sorry but that's the cold, hard truth. So what, two people with similar gear see each other and agree a truce? Please.
The arena ladder is ranked, you fight people with a similar rank to you - so if you have the BEST gear, you fight others with the BEST gear - but only if your SKILL is high enough.
Yes, in a battleground someone with much better gear is going to be harder to kill. But part of the interest is that sometimes it's actually FUN to fight someone who is stronger than you - because unlike those who just give up on the sight of someone better geared than them, there are many ways to beat them.
Gear does make a difference and sometimes it is impossible to beat someone better geared like you, but this is an MMORPG. Not every fight should be fair, fleeing or retreating in world PvP or the battlegrounds should be an option from time to time.
Once you're in a decent set of PvP gear, then you'll realize that your skill is the bottleneck in how well you do, not your gear.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
People will never stop bashing WoW it is the most popular mmo and by far it is seen as one of the most over rated games currently out there. Therefore it will always get allot of flak. Especially when it has the worst community in any game out there, and with stupid comments like WoW is complex, WoW has good PvP etc with the typical fanboy non existant reasoning behind the statements, it will just incourage people to bash it.
Moreover people will keep bashing WoW due to developers copying its terrible game mechanics constantly so rather than bash the developers trying to cash in on WoWs success by making WoW clones they bash the game that is the cause of it all.
By the way the above poster is the perfect example of why people can not stand WoW, the very first thing the guy says is 'If you think that PvP in WoW is only gear based then you are not good at PvP' it is a typical fanboy statement that bashes anyone who has a different and often correct view on a game.
Would of it been so hard to say I am sorry I disagree with this and this is why etc? without the needless bashing of the player you are responding to? Almost all posts are like this one on this forum, and on the WoW forums.
Edit: forgot to say maybe if the community for this game was not so horrible people would not bash it as much, or atleast they would have a civil conversation which rarely if ever happens on a WoW forum.
Scriar, I think you are the exact "kid" that people didn't like dealing with in WOW. WHy? Because you're the problem. Its really simple. I never ran into anyone who actually knew how to play that said it took no skill. We're talking MMO style skill here. Quick decision making, teamwork, preparation, having the right builds and gear set ups, knowing strengths and weaknesses of classes, ect. Twitchy FPS skill is different, but even WOW requires a great deal of it compared to most other MMOs. DAOC is a great example of not really needing too much twitch skill, with /face & /stick taking care of most of your movement. WIth WOW you have turn the camera to keep your POV centered. Thats not saying DAOC took less skill. Its just different. WOW is overall much, much faster and requires more decision making and less reliance on timed abilites that have no counter. Every ability in WOW has multiple counters and those who know about them all play the game better than those that just say, "WOW is just gear and spamming spells". You hear that and its quite obvious they never actually tried to win or got past the trial. Many people think WOW PvP at low levels is the same at high levels. They're not even close.
My guild was full of UO and DOAC vets. We all came from other MMOs. The only people who claim it takes less skill than others MMOs are those who just give up instantly. I've seen them. I played against them. I played with them all the time in the BGs. None of those people were skilled players. They were whiners, complainers and made excuses for not learning how to play. Thats OK though. Most people who play games are quite average. SKill in MMOs is a weird animal. But to say WOW takes no skill proves just how little you understand MMOs. This isn't fanboy talk. Its fact talk. I played UO and AC, 2 MMOs people claim took lots of skill. IMO exploiting the system was never skill. By todays standards, its called cheating or exploiting=) Quite different.
I don't expect to change anyone's mind because anyone posting in this forum who bitches about WOW all the time, is a very bored, sad little person. I'd bet the ones moaning about kiddies and immaturity and how the community was bad were the direct cause of it.
I find it funny that WoW fanboys insists that WoW is complex and that PVP is meaningfull.Well ofcourse it's complex for your little 5-12 year old brain,pressing a button can be much strain on the brain on todays youth... stupidity is spreading to fast.
It's simple,WoW is a non complex,extremly casual mmorpg.Despite what fanboys say,they can never bring proof of any of their "WOW IS COMPLEX etc." comments ,the casual part maibe partialy true... since no life guilds keep raiding and raiding and raiding ... just to have all their countless hours and nerves wasted in the next expansion.
Soo yeah,have fun playing WoW will I play a completly different and more inteligent game.
Also WoW community is still at the top... at the top of the "worst community" list,cant count how many lame jokes or pathetic 2 year old attempts at jokes "omigod I tuk dump in toilet n it went splash" etc.
I find it funny that WoW fanboys insists that WoW is complex and that PVP is meaningfull.Well ofcourse it's complex for your little 5-12 year old brain,pressing a button can be much strain on the brain on todays youth... stupidity is spreading to fast. It's simple,WoW is a non complex,extremly casual mmorpg.Despite what fanboys say,they can never bring proof of any of their "WOW IS COMPLEX etc." comments ,the casual part maibe partialy true... since no life guilds keep raiding and raiding and raiding ... just to have all their countless hours and nerves wasted in the next expansion. Soo yeah,have fun playing WoW will I play a completly different and more inteligent game. Also WoW community is still at the top... at the top of the "worst community" list,cant count how many lame jokes or pathetic 2 year old attempts at jokes "omigod I tuk dump in toilet n it went splash" etc.
Nice one. You seem like a well-rounded and considerate person with an objective and informed outlook on the matter. I bet the communities of the games you take part in are beyong imagination in terms of versatility, thoughtfulness and benevolence.
Ok ok you can bash wow and do whatever you want with this threads corpse... BUT... I don't like it when people generalise the youth of today... Im 13 i play WoW i don't go around screaming 'YEEH HAA FOR DA HORDE LOL!' I RP I always speak properly never in 'text speak' and i am annoyed needing to lie about my age just for people to stop generalising me and to get out of the corner where we all get pushed in!
MERCILESSLY PUSHED IN!
Well now thats over STOP GENERALISING ME! And let me play my game!.
Back on to subject I think people should have thier own opinions but keep them bottled up to people they know don't want to hear them , but i'm telling my opinion now so mayby i should bottle mine up and stop telling it to you... OK i'll shut up now and go play Horizons seen as my WoW account is busted (damn Customer service! ), ta ta chaps!
The evil mouse - take over the world evil - is in the house...
Well Recant. If you really think WoW pvp is complex and hard, feel free to live in your dreamworld. Its one of the most basic pvp systems in the mmo market today. And yeah, I've been there, done that with both bg's and the arena. Its a grind, mindnumbing and ridiculously easy, nothing more. Perfect for casual players, but hardcore pvp'ers need more.
Well Recant. If you really think WoW pvp is complex and hard, feel free to live in your dreamworld. Its one of the most basic pvp systems in the mmo market today. And yeah, I've been there, done that with both bg's and the arena. Its a grind, mindnumbing and ridiculously easy, nothing more. Perfect for casual players, but hardcore pvp'ers need more.
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
I've played countless mmorpgs and WoW is the only game i return to. It's the game built to be played by everybody. Who wants a game that makes you think you're in the real world solving problems and doing chores. People say WoW is a grind. An mmorpg without grinding is a failed business. Graphics suck? Who wants to play a pretty game that shows you what normal RL beings are like? It's all about fun colors and effects. A game is always better with more color than RL-looking textures. I have yet to see a game with "amazing" graphics--they all look like artificial and yea they look P L A S T I C. It's like playing pretty barbie dolls. examples. EVE online is a great game with great graphics but you'll only enjoy the game if you like slow games with lots of maps and you want playing with old people who in RL failed at economics and politics. Even with a mature community you'll see the chat spammed with "10yr old" ethug talk. Surprise? Don't be, all games are infested with this. My first week in the game i got tells from companies telling me about their company structure from pirating ore to dominating the market... WTF is that? That is not how i envisioned fun in game. If i want to hear trade talk like that, i'll watch wallstreet shows. CityOfHeroes/Villains is a great game with superfun combat action. The problem, worst grind mmorpg in the market. People are so bored they do beauty..err costume contests for low level characters. Dark Age of Camelot and Anarchy Online are both fun and original but the games are so yesterday. I hope they update the game with new features. Star Wars and Lord of the Rings... ruined by poor interpretation. Why did people failed such great titles. Mmorpgs without PvP = fail nuff said Back to World of Warcraft You can WorldPvP/Arena/Battlegrounds/InstanceRaid all you want and not get bored. Join a guild and try out raiding. Fight solo and do battlegrounds/crafting to stay gear competitive. Patch 2.4 will make the game easier so you can get upgrades easier. Arena players have gear for PvP but they all suck individuall6y without their teammates. Easy, colorful, and fun. That is WoW and people think it's too childish. Video games are not made to be played by adults to imitate RL. All video games are made for fun and as a means of escape from RL. bad english signing out PS if you really want to waste your money paying for games that just give you more problems to solve, go ahead and continue believing your $$$ spent is worth it.
My god this post made me laugh hard. Especially the "An mmorpg without grinding is a failed business".
WoW is too ugly, too easy and too repetitive. Game over.
When will some of you learn that numbers dont always mean best. I saw someone a while back use the mcdonalds analogy and it really fits lol. Just because millions are served, doesnt mean its the best hamburger. Just because WoW has millions of subscribers doesnt mean its the best. Just because Blizzard made it doesnt mean its best. The most popular? Yea. Best? Matter of opinion.
Frankly I dont want to see any other games get as large as WoW. WIth large groups comes the WoW community which is the biggest sesspool of idiots in the world. Sure there are some nice people that play, but for ever 1 nice person you find you will run into 10 others that are complete idiots.
God forbid you draw a large paying crowd to fund the continuing game development process. I would hate to see a game get better instead of worse. Patches? We don't need no stinking patches.
Scriar, I think you are the exact "kid" that people didn't like dealing with in WOW. WHy? Because you're the problem. Its really simple. I never ran into anyone who actually knew how to play that said it took no skill. Do you have basic reading ability? where in my post have I gone on about WoW taking skill? I gave examples of posts where people say WoW is complex, WoW takes skill etc then I said very clearly that these were examples of posts that are never explained with any existant facts. Usually they are just responses like this one you have posted. Instead of explaining why WoW takes 'skill' you try to insult me by insinuating Im a bad PvPer which I could not care less about because WoW is not a game that anyone takes seriously if they want to PvP. Due to it having Levels, classes, stats, dice rolls, etc We're talking MMO style skill here. Quick decision making, teamwork, preparation, having the right builds and gear set ups, knowing strengths and weaknesses of classes, ect. Twitchy FPS skill is different, but even WOW requires a great deal of it compared to most other MMOs. At no point in my post did I even mention this, and yes it does take decsion making teamwork, and preparation, having the right builds etc None of that is hard to do, but it is what separates a good player from a bad one even if it is not a huge difference. DAOC is a great example of not really needing too much twitch skill, with /face & /stick taking care of most of your movement. WIth WOW you have turn the camera to keep your POV centered. Thats not saying DAOC took less skill. Its just different. WOW is overall much, much faster and requires more decision making and less reliance on timed abilites that have no counter. Every ability in WOW has multiple counters and those who know about them all play the game better than those that just say, "WOW is just gear and spamming spells". You hear that and its quite obvious they never actually tried to win or got past the trial. Many people think WOW PvP at low levels is the same at high levels. They're not even close. Again I do not deny that you need to know the counters, but those counters are a few for each situation and are very easy to learn given a certain amount of time, and once you have learned them there is very little chance you will lose, unless of course you go up against other people that know all the counters then the reasons why this games PvP will always suck kicks in. 1, level difference obviously this is not an issue at 70 but it is a deciding factor at other levels 2 class, alot of the classes in this game are imbalenced or will always win against certain other classes in 1 on 1 situations. In group PvP it comes down to certain combos always winning. 3 stats, and dice rolls are self explanatory, but in my opinion any game that has dice rolls is not going to be a good pvp game due to the random chances it causes bad players to some times win, and good players to sometimes lose despite their 'skill' That is the problem with WoW PvP it is predicatble and boring. basically everything that makes this game a RPG is what takes away any potentional skill in PvP. All is boiled down to luck, and time because of the gameplay mechanics.. My guild was full of UO and DOAC vets. We all came from other MMOs. The only people who claim it takes less skill than others MMOs are those who just give up instantly. I've seen them. I played against them. I played with them all the time in the BGs. None of those people were skilled players. They were whiners, complainers and made excuses for not learning how to play. Thats OK though. Most people who play games are quite average. SKill in MMOs is a weird animal. But to say WOW takes no skill proves just how little you understand MMOs. This isn't fanboy talk. Its fact talk. I played UO and AC, 2 MMOs people claim took lots of skill. IMO exploiting the system was never skill. By todays standards, its called cheating or exploiting=) Quite different. I understand mmos thanks, and no it is not fact it is an opinion. In my opinion MMORPGs specifically only take time, and luck nothing else. Skill does not come into play in games built around dice rolls and time spent. I don't expect to change anyone's mind because anyone posting in this forum who bitches about WOW all the time, is a very bored, sad little person. I'd bet the ones moaning about kiddies and immaturity and how the community was bad were the direct cause of it. So I take it anyone that hangs around a forum bashing those with different opinions is an upstanding member of society then? And FYI this is the first thread in ages in a WoW forum ive bothered posting in due to what a state this particular forum is compared to the other ones. Anyway I do not want to carry on talking about WoW it is a boring, repitative game, made for the masses which is why it will always be simplistic, with no or little skill involved. Besides if people are enjoying WoW good for them personally the only reason I played the game is because my brothers and friends begged me to not because it was a good game, and certainly not for its terrible PvP as well as its carrot on stick simplistic PvE.
Scriar, I think you are the exact "kid" that people didn't like dealing with in WOW. WHy? Because you're the problem. Its really simple. I never ran into anyone who actually knew how to play that said it took no skill. Do you have basic reading ability? where in my post have I gone on about WoW taking skill? I gave examples of posts where people say WoW is complex, WoW takes skill etc then I said very clearly that these were examples of posts that are never explained with any existant facts. Usually they are just responses like this one you have posted. Instead of explaining why WoW takes 'skill' you try to insult me by insinuating Im a bad PvPer which I could not care less about because WoW is not a game that anyone takes seriously if they want to PvP. Due to it having Levels, classes, stats, dice rolls, etc We're talking MMO style skill here. Quick decision making, teamwork, preparation, having the right builds and gear set ups, knowing strengths and weaknesses of classes, ect. Twitchy FPS skill is different, but even WOW requires a great deal of it compared to most other MMOs. At no point in my post did I even mention this, and yes it does take decsion making teamwork, and preparation, having the right builds etc None of that is hard to do, but it is what separates a good player from a bad one even if it is not a huge difference. DAOC is a great example of not really needing too much twitch skill, with /face & /stick taking care of most of your movement. WIth WOW you have turn the camera to keep your POV centered. Thats not saying DAOC took less skill. Its just different. WOW is overall much, much faster and requires more decision making and less reliance on timed abilites that have no counter. Every ability in WOW has multiple counters and those who know about them all play the game better than those that just say, "WOW is just gear and spamming spells". You hear that and its quite obvious they never actually tried to win or got past the trial. Many people think WOW PvP at low levels is the same at high levels. They're not even close. Again I do not deny that you need to know the counters, but those counters are a few for each situation and are very easy to learn given a certain amount of time, and once you have learned them there is very little chance you will lose, unless of course you go up against other people that know all the counters then the reasons why this games PvP will always suck kicks in. 1, level difference obviously this is not an issue at 70 but it is a deciding factor at other levels 2 class, alot of the classes in this game are imbalenced or will always win against certain other classes in 1 on 1 situations. In group PvP it comes down to certain combos always winning. 3 stats, and dice rolls are self explanatory, but in my opinion any game that has dice rolls is not going to be a good pvp game due to the random chances it causes bad players to some times win, and good players to sometimes lose despite their 'skill' That is the problem with WoW PvP it is predicatble and boring. basically everything that makes this game a RPG is what takes away any potentional skill in PvP. All is boiled down to luck, and time because of the gameplay mechanics.. My guild was full of UO and DOAC vets. We all came from other MMOs. The only people who claim it takes less skill than others MMOs are those who just give up instantly. I've seen them. I played against them. I played with them all the time in the BGs. None of those people were skilled players. They were whiners, complainers and made excuses for not learning how to play. Thats OK though. Most people who play games are quite average. SKill in MMOs is a weird animal. But to say WOW takes no skill proves just how little you understand MMOs. This isn't fanboy talk. Its fact talk. I played UO and AC, 2 MMOs people claim took lots of skill. IMO exploiting the system was never skill. By todays standards, its called cheating or exploiting=) Quite different. I understand mmos thanks, and no it is not fact it is an opinion. In my opinion MMORPGs specifically only take time, and luck nothing else. Skill does not come into play in games built around dice rolls and time spent. I don't expect to change anyone's mind because anyone posting in this forum who bitches about WOW all the time, is a very bored, sad little person. I'd bet the ones moaning about kiddies and immaturity and how the community was bad were the direct cause of it. So I take it anyone that hangs around a forum bashing those with different opinions is an upstanding member of society then? And FYI this is the first thread in ages in a WoW forum ive bothered posting in due to what a state this particular forum is compared to the other ones. Anyway I do not want to carry on talking about WoW it is a boring, repitative game, made for the masses which is why it will always be simplistic, with no or little skill involved. Besides if people are enjoying WoW good for them personally the only reason I played the game is because my brothers and friends begged me to not because it was a good game, and certainly not for its terrible PvP as well as its carrot on stick simplistic PvE.
So you admit to not being all that interested in MMOs, since they take no skill or a game you essentially got dragged into playing by friends(how sad and pathetic). For some reason you're are posting on this board bashing the game you think is lousy. Congrats on being a troll. Thanks for clearing that up;) Good day sir.
Well Recant. If you really think WoW pvp is complex and hard, feel free to live in your dreamworld. Its one of the most basic pvp systems in the mmo market today. And yeah, I've been there, done that with both bg's and the arena. Its a grind, mindnumbing and ridiculously easy, nothing more. Perfect for casual players, but hardcore pvp'ers need more.
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
Dreamworld tralala...
Yes, I'm trolling, cause this is bullshit of the first degree.
So you admit to not being all that interested in MMOs, since they take no skill or a game you essentially got dragged into playing by friends(how sad and pathetic). For some reason you're are posting on this board bashing the game you think is lousy. Congrats on being a troll. Thanks for clearing that up;) Good day sir.
Where did I say I am not interested in MMOs? Why would I be on a mmorpg forum if I was not interested in mmorpgs ? I think that MMORPGs do not make good platforms for skill based PvP, I have not said that I think MMORPGS suck. I think my post is clear enough on that point, again you seem to misunderstanding what I say in the post.
You think It is sad and pathetic that I enjoy playing games with friends? I am not really sure what to say to this, since it sounds like a very lame/sad statement for anyone to make.
So I am a troll for posting on topic about a thread that says stop bashing WoW. Who is more the troll the person actually on topic, or you the one who is constantly belittering others in this thread for not agreeing with them instead of furthering the discussion.
Yes, it has become the "golden commercial standard" in terms of MMO gaming. However, I'm tired of hearing people who chose not to like it bash it in every third thread. 1. WoW PvP is as strategic as any other game on the market right now 2. WoW PvE is as complex and challenging, at the higher levels, as any other game on the market right now 3. There are KIDDIES in every game. There are plenty in WoW, sure, but there are also a lot of more mature players.
JUST LEAVE WOW ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people hate it because it's "easy" ... sure it's easy to level to the cap. You can be L70 and suck ... but you know what? I've played forced grouping games w/ endless group grinds to end-game and found at max level there are still a plethora of terrible players. WoW graphics are cartoony, sure, but they are also very well themed. Everything fits. You're free to dislike it, but don't cite "cartoonish graphics" like it's bad. WoW's graphics beat the snot out of a lot of "realistic graphics" games because you end up looking like dolls rather than anything more interesting. Anyway - in conclusion - Love WoW or hate WoW, stop bashing it in every third post you make. Thanks!
Is that Chris Crocker posting on these forums?? " LEAVE BRITNEY (WoW) ALONE!!!!!!!!
WOW is a joke witht he cartoonish graphics and the bad PVP and the easy PvE, you max level in no time even soloing the only reason they have so many Sub's is all the kids and item/gold farmers.
LOL just joking this game is really nice if you can deal with the graphics I played it for sometime in beta and then played off and on for a couple of years and did max a couple of char's and one of them I did solo to max level just to see if I could do it. But the game is fun.
if you like to group or solo this is a good game to play.
Assassin's like to do it in the dark and from behind.
Well Recant. If you really think WoW pvp is complex and hard, feel free to live in your dreamworld. Its one of the most basic pvp systems in the mmo market today. And yeah, I've been there, done that with both bg's and the arena. Its a grind, mindnumbing and ridiculously easy, nothing more. Perfect for casual players, but hardcore pvp'ers need more.
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
Guild Wars is not only considered an E-Sport but actually IS an e-sport. With yearly ladders that play for prizes and money.
Do not even try come back with the guild wars doesn't take skill argument either, because it will not hold water.
Guild Wars complexity and teamwork aspect of the 8 v 8 ladders takes a huge dump on WoW's pvp in every aspect. The teams of GW are built and comprised just like a CPL Counterstrike team over many countries.
Yes GW is free and houses MANY kiddies because of it. Truth of the matter still remains, it poops on wow's pvp. It also has everything you said other MMO's do not have, twitch fast paced combat, where your builds skills and anything else "complex" comes into play.
Still shaking my head how you think fear bombs, counter spell, polymorph, and the fabled mortal strike spam is "complex". WoW's PvP is garbage. It's PvE is ok, for what it is. Just quit trying to pass off WoW's pvp as the godsend to mankind.... because it blows donkey balls.
Yes, it has become the "golden commercial standard" in terms of MMO gaming. However, I'm tired of hearing people who chose not to like it bash it in every third thread. 1. WoW PvP is as strategic as any other game on the market right now 2. WoW PvE is as complex and challenging, at the higher levels, as any other game on the market right now 3. There are KIDDIES in every game. There are plenty in WoW, sure, but there are also a lot of more mature players.
JUST LEAVE WOW ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people hate it because it's "easy" ... sure it's easy to level to the cap. You can be L70 and suck ... but you know what? I've played forced grouping games w/ endless group grinds to end-game and found at max level there are still a plethora of terrible players. WoW graphics are cartoony, sure, but they are also very well themed. Everything fits. You're free to dislike it, but don't cite "cartoonish graphics" like it's bad. WoW's graphics beat the snot out of a lot of "realistic graphics" games because you end up looking like dolls rather than anything more interesting. Anyway - in conclusion - Love WoW or hate WoW, stop bashing it in every third post you make. Thanks!
Is that Chris Crocker posting on these forums?? " LEAVE BRITNEY (WoW) ALONE!!!!!!!!
Sorry, never said it was god send. Never said it was the best. Never mentioned GWs. I only commented that it doesn't take any less skill than any other MMO, which people just LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to spout day in day out. TO those people, its obvious they don't have much of a clue. How much clue can they have complaining about it on MMORPG.com. You'd figure someone who thinks the game sucks wouldn't post about it on a message board dedictaed. They just wouldn't care. But they DO care. They care because they know they're wrong. People need to understand the difference between why you PvP and the complexity of the fight. WOWs PvP purpose is simple because theres no higher reason to fight. This was done for a very good reason Blizzard is aware of and many people aren't. If it needs to be explained, think really hard and it'll come to you. But To say the tactics & options are any less simple than any other MMO reeks of pure ignorance.
GW by the way certainly takes plenty of skill to play well. However, you can also play it like a moron and easily beat other morons, doing just fine, just like WOW or any other MMO for that matter.
Bashing WOWs PvP mechanics means you're an angry bitter individual and nothing more. Bash the reasons why you fight. Bash the death penalty. Bash the instances if you want. But bashing how well the game controls, how many options you have and how fast you have to use those options in order to do well means you really don't have any idea what you're talking about.
UO had very few options in a fight and horrible controls. DAOC removed moevement control almost completely and RAs and CC have never been balanced from day 1. SB had horrible control and nasty tech problems. In Eve, PvP is designed to be avoided. People go out of their way to avoid a fight and then when you're in a fight, you're mostly looking at blips on a screen, extrememly automated combat and very little reaction time needed, about as exciting as watching paint dry. Sure the stakes are high, but the fights are dead boring and painfully slow.
So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
WoW's server population drasticly increases after 3pm... when school lets out.
Comments
Yes better geared opponents will beat lesser geared opponents most of the time. However you are overstating this, because gear comes in tiers and you are quite often matched to players with the same tiers of gear as you.
There is so much you can do wrong in PvP, so much you can fail to do correctly. The amount of times I've seen players just try to spam their abilities instead of working to counter the abilities of their opponents, using distance, line of sight, CC, counter CC, and watch them fail - not because they had inferior gear, but because they were outsmarted.
There are diminishing returns on gear, the difference between 200 and 300 resilience gear is a matter of a small percent - a percentage that can be mitigated entirely by working better as a team.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
In the arenas, there are no major gear gaps, since you're matched up with similar geared folks. ANyone who blames gear is just not a good player. The biggest excuse in WOW PvP is instantly blaming gear. Its like blaming the teacher that you failed a class, blaming Budweiser when you get in an accident because you were drunk or sue the guy you're robbing because you slip and fall on their front porch. If you lose in the arenas, its all on you and your team mates. Nothing more. If you think it takes no skill(in MMO terms) its because you have none. Quite simple.
Lol...WoW pvp is gear first, then skill second...Always has been, always will be it seems. Besides, if you want real skillbased pvp go play an online shooter, compete in a real life sport, engage in any twitchbased event, either videogame or real life against another person, build a house, cure cancer, win the cup(ManU ftw
) and so on. That take skill, not the buttonmashing we do to eachother in different mmo's. It do take knowledge most of the time to win yes, but skill...no!
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
If you think that PvP in WoW is only gear based you are not very good at PvP. I'm sorry but that's the cold, hard truth. So what, two people with similar gear see each other and agree a truce? Please.
The arena ladder is ranked, you fight people with a similar rank to you - so if you have the BEST gear, you fight others with the BEST gear - but only if your SKILL is high enough.
Yes, in a battleground someone with much better gear is going to be harder to kill. But part of the interest is that sometimes it's actually FUN to fight someone who is stronger than you - because unlike those who just give up on the sight of someone better geared than them, there are many ways to beat them.
Gear does make a difference and sometimes it is impossible to beat someone better geared like you, but this is an MMORPG. Not every fight should be fair, fleeing or retreating in world PvP or the battlegrounds should be an option from time to time.
Once you're in a decent set of PvP gear, then you'll realize that your skill is the bottleneck in how well you do, not your gear.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
People will never stop bashing WoW it is the most popular mmo and by far it is seen as one of the most over rated games currently out there. Therefore it will always get allot of flak. Especially when it has the worst community in any game out there, and with stupid comments like WoW is complex, WoW has good PvP etc with the typical fanboy non existant reasoning behind the statements, it will just incourage people to bash it.
Moreover people will keep bashing WoW due to developers copying its terrible game mechanics constantly so rather than bash the developers trying to cash in on WoWs success by making WoW clones they bash the game that is the cause of it all.
By the way the above poster is the perfect example of why people can not stand WoW, the very first thing the guy says is 'If you think that PvP in WoW is only gear based then you are not good at PvP' it is a typical fanboy statement that bashes anyone who has a different and often correct view on a game.
Would of it been so hard to say I am sorry I disagree with this and this is why etc? without the needless bashing of the player you are responding to? Almost all posts are like this one on this forum, and on the WoW forums.
Edit: forgot to say maybe if the community for this game was not so horrible people would not bash it as much, or atleast they would have a civil conversation which rarely if ever happens on a WoW forum.
Scriar, I think you are the exact "kid" that people didn't like dealing with in WOW. WHy? Because you're the problem. Its really simple. I never ran into anyone who actually knew how to play that said it took no skill. We're talking MMO style skill here. Quick decision making, teamwork, preparation, having the right builds and gear set ups, knowing strengths and weaknesses of classes, ect. Twitchy FPS skill is different, but even WOW requires a great deal of it compared to most other MMOs. DAOC is a great example of not really needing too much twitch skill, with /face & /stick taking care of most of your movement. WIth WOW you have turn the camera to keep your POV centered. Thats not saying DAOC took less skill. Its just different. WOW is overall much, much faster and requires more decision making and less reliance on timed abilites that have no counter. Every ability in WOW has multiple counters and those who know about them all play the game better than those that just say, "WOW is just gear and spamming spells". You hear that and its quite obvious they never actually tried to win or got past the trial. Many people think WOW PvP at low levels is the same at high levels. They're not even close.
My guild was full of UO and DOAC vets. We all came from other MMOs. The only people who claim it takes less skill than others MMOs are those who just give up instantly. I've seen them. I played against them. I played with them all the time in the BGs. None of those people were skilled players. They were whiners, complainers and made excuses for not learning how to play. Thats OK though. Most people who play games are quite average. SKill in MMOs is a weird animal. But to say WOW takes no skill proves just how little you understand MMOs. This isn't fanboy talk. Its fact talk. I played UO and AC, 2 MMOs people claim took lots of skill. IMO exploiting the system was never skill. By todays standards, its called cheating or exploiting=) Quite different.
I don't expect to change anyone's mind because anyone posting in this forum who bitches about WOW all the time, is a very bored, sad little person. I'd bet the ones moaning about kiddies and immaturity and how the community was bad were the direct cause of it.
I find it funny that WoW fanboys insists that WoW is complex and that PVP is meaningfull.Well ofcourse it's complex for your little 5-12 year old brain,pressing a button can be much strain on the brain on todays youth... stupidity is spreading to fast.
It's simple,WoW is a non complex,extremly casual mmorpg.Despite what fanboys say,they can never bring proof of any of their "WOW IS COMPLEX etc." comments ,the casual part maibe partialy true... since no life guilds keep raiding and raiding and raiding ... just to have all their countless hours and nerves wasted in the next expansion.
Soo yeah,have fun playing WoW will I play a completly different and more inteligent game.
Also WoW community is still at the top... at the top of the "worst community" list,cant count how many lame jokes or pathetic 2 year old attempts at jokes "omigod I tuk dump in toilet n it went splash" etc.
Nice one. You seem like a well-rounded and considerate person with an objective and informed outlook on the matter. I bet the communities of the games you take part in are beyong imagination in terms of versatility, thoughtfulness and benevolence.
Ok ok you can bash wow and do whatever you want with this threads corpse... BUT... I don't like it when people generalise the youth of today... Im 13 i play WoW i don't go around screaming 'YEEH HAA FOR DA HORDE LOL!' I RP I always speak properly never in 'text speak' and i am annoyed needing to lie about my age just for people to stop generalising me and to get out of the corner where we all get pushed in!
MERCILESSLY PUSHED IN!
Well now thats over STOP GENERALISING ME! And let me play my game!.
Back on to subject I think people should have thier own opinions but keep them bottled up to people they know don't want to hear them , but i'm telling my opinion now so mayby i should bottle mine up and stop telling it to you... OK i'll shut up now and go play Horizons seen as my WoW account is busted (damn Customer service!
), ta ta chaps!
The evil mouse - take over the world evil - is in the house...
Well Recant. If you really think WoW pvp is complex and hard, feel free to live in your dreamworld. Its one of the most basic pvp systems in the mmo market today. And yeah, I've been there, done that with both bg's and the arena. Its a grind, mindnumbing and ridiculously easy, nothing more. Perfect for casual players, but hardcore pvp'ers need more.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
WoW is too ugly, too easy and too repetitive. Game over.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
God forbid you draw a large paying crowd to fund the continuing game development process. I would hate to see a game get better instead of worse. Patches? We don't need no stinking patches.
A dyslexic man walked into a bra.
I like WoW, keeps the twelve year olds and pervs out of EQ2.
Just listen to Barens chat..
So you admit to not being all that interested in MMOs, since they take no skill or a game you essentially got dragged into playing by friends(how sad and pathetic). For some reason you're are posting on this board bashing the game you think is lousy. Congrats on being a troll. Thanks for clearing that up;) Good day sir.You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
Dreamworld tralala...Yes, I'm trolling, cause this is bullshit of the first degree.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
So you admit to not being all that interested in MMOs, since they take no skill or a game you essentially got dragged into playing by friends(how sad and pathetic). For some reason you're are posting on this board bashing the game you think is lousy. Congrats on being a troll. Thanks for clearing that up;) Good day sir.Where did I say I am not interested in MMOs? Why would I be on a mmorpg forum if I was not interested in mmorpgs ? I think that MMORPGs do not make good platforms for skill based PvP, I have not said that I think MMORPGS suck. I think my post is clear enough on that point, again you seem to misunderstanding what I say in the post.
You think It is sad and pathetic that I enjoy playing games with friends? I am not really sure what to say to this, since it sounds like a very lame/sad statement for anyone to make.
So I am a troll for posting on topic about a thread that says stop bashing WoW. Who is more the troll the person actually on topic, or you the one who is constantly belittering others in this thread for not agreeing with them instead of furthering the discussion.
Is that Chris Crocker posting on these forums?? " LEAVE BRITNEY (WoW) ALONE!!!!!!!!
WOW is a joke witht he cartoonish graphics and the bad PVP and the easy PvE, you max level in no time even soloing the only reason they have so many Sub's is all the kids and item/gold farmers.
LOL just joking this game is really nice if you can deal with the graphics I played it for sometime in beta and then played off and on for a couple of years and did max a couple of char's and one of them I did solo to max level just to see if I could do it. But the game is fun.
if you like to group or solo this is a good game to play.
Assassin's like to do it in the dark and from behind.
You're right on one thing. The goal to PvP in WOW isn't all that complex. Its either for points in the BGs and Arenas, an ego stroke or simple survival on PvP servers. However, the battle mechanics, split second options & strategies are as complex as any MMO to date. You don't need to lose your shirt for PvP to matter in a MMO. It just has to be fun. According to the numbers more people find WOW PvP fun than most MMOs combined.
Hardcore PvPers haven't mattered....EVER=) If they mattered, Origin would'nt have created Trammel. ACDT would've been the most populated server until 8 or 9 yrs later. DOAC's PvP servers wouldn't have been empty a few months after they opened. ShadowBane wouldn't be a total dud. The Lineage series wouldn't be a flop in every region outside Asia. Eve would have more success outside Europe. In the US its hardly a blip.
Hardcore PvPers? You think any developer cares at all about them, esspecially Blizzard. On that note, name another MMO where their PvP matches are considered an e-sport? WOW's arenas have prize money valued at $120k. Pretty hardcore, dontcha think? I'm not involved in it, but people are willing to pay to get into tournaments. Besides, hardcore PvPers don't play MMOs. They play FPSs, get sposors and win money. They don't sit on forums and bitch on how WOW sucks=)
Guess what? WOW PvP isn't all about BGs and arenas and anyone who needs hardcore penalties to have fun isn't a PvPer. They're just a masochist. You want hardcore PvP, drop your gear every time you lose or punch yourself in the face. That way PvP can have more meaning for you without ruining it for the rest of us.
Guild Wars is not only considered an E-Sport but actually IS an e-sport. With yearly ladders that play for prizes and money.
Do not even try come back with the guild wars doesn't take skill argument either, because it will not hold water.
Guild Wars complexity and teamwork aspect of the 8 v 8 ladders takes a huge dump on WoW's pvp in every aspect. The teams of GW are built and comprised just like a CPL Counterstrike team over many countries.
Yes GW is free and houses MANY kiddies because of it. Truth of the matter still remains, it poops on wow's pvp. It also has everything you said other MMO's do not have, twitch fast paced combat, where your builds skills and anything else "complex" comes into play.
Still shaking my head how you think fear bombs, counter spell, polymorph, and the fabled mortal strike spam is "complex". WoW's PvP is garbage. It's PvE is ok, for what it is. Just quit trying to pass off WoW's pvp as the godsend to mankind.... because it blows donkey balls.
Is that Chris Crocker posting on these forums?? " LEAVE BRITNEY (WoW) ALONE!!!!!!!!
ROFLMAO
Sorry, never said it was god send. Never said it was the best. Never mentioned GWs. I only commented that it doesn't take any less skill than any other MMO, which people just LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to spout day in day out. TO those people, its obvious they don't have much of a clue. How much clue can they have complaining about it on MMORPG.com. You'd figure someone who thinks the game sucks wouldn't post about it on a message board dedictaed. They just wouldn't care. But they DO care. They care because they know they're wrong. People need to understand the difference between why you PvP and the complexity of the fight. WOWs PvP purpose is simple because theres no higher reason to fight. This was done for a very good reason Blizzard is aware of and many people aren't. If it needs to be explained, think really hard and it'll come to you. But To say the tactics & options are any less simple than any other MMO reeks of pure ignorance.
GW by the way certainly takes plenty of skill to play well. However, you can also play it like a moron and easily beat other morons, doing just fine, just like WOW or any other MMO for that matter.
Bashing WOWs PvP mechanics means you're an angry bitter individual and nothing more. Bash the reasons why you fight. Bash the death penalty. Bash the instances if you want. But bashing how well the game controls, how many options you have and how fast you have to use those options in order to do well means you really don't have any idea what you're talking about.
UO had very few options in a fight and horrible controls. DAOC removed moevement control almost completely and RAs and CC have never been balanced from day 1. SB had horrible control and nasty tech problems. In Eve, PvP is designed to be avoided. People go out of their way to avoid a fight and then when you're in a fight, you're mostly looking at blips on a screen, extrememly automated combat and very little reaction time needed, about as exciting as watching paint dry. Sure the stakes are high, but the fights are dead boring and painfully slow.
So when certain people mention WOW's PvP is horible, you have to question why loads of people are playing such a crappy game. Maybe, just maybe, its because WOW PvP is actually quite fun and the people who hate it are quite bitter and the idea of fun differs greatly from "normal people". Who plays a game that isn't fun anyway?
WoW's server population drasticly increases after 3pm... when school lets out.