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Who plays this game?
Ok, so after long time I was back in Lineage II.
I said to me that I will try it, I remembered it like a realy fun game which I used to play with many of my friends it was great time.
But I also have in mind that it was long ago, and from that time I haved played many other MMO. Ok so I install the game, and... it was disaster.
First thing.
Creating character, they add one new race that's good, but where is problem with add some more customization to creating proces. You can change just few things in each profile... you can choose profession, and then face you got 3(!!!) of them... and hair + color. Nothing change from when I was playing about 5 years ago, I can't see any problem with adding some, but well it's detail.
Second thing.
Missions. First mission was to find few people, I couldn't find option to see them on map, or probably there is no option like that, so I have to go trough all buildings to find the right persons. But it's detail again.
Second Mission. Kill 50 wolves
Third Mission. Kill 50 of something.
Fourth Mission. Find 30 items = Kill 50 wolves...
Fifth Mission. Kill 50 of something.
Third Thing
Bots... oh my god... I don't know how it is posible to pay for a game to people which are don't care about clients...
I have seen about 20 bots in starting town. This's sick.
Comments
they has been a lot off changes made to the game over the year's but almost nothing new on the character look's, lineage 2 is not a quest game either, they's only a very few quest's who are worth it so mostly you just get a party startet and hunt in a area for exp, and adena's...
about bot's, well yere this game has lot's off em also player's who bot's but they's sevral topics about em anyway.
I prefer the choice to not have fifty nose sliders and twenty eye brow choices and be able to have hundreds on screen without horrific lag -
Equipment can change the character appearance enough for me , and while it would be nice to have a few more hairstyles or colors, I have played games like Vanguard/EQ2 that let you have a choice of how you want your eyebrows arched and the lag when you get enough characters together is laughable - most engines that have the size of PvP battles you have in L2 would choke with that many characters on screen
Ok, well, first things first.
This is a 4 year old game which started developement 3 years prior. It is made in the style of your typical Asian grinder with the redeeming characteristic that it is less "junky" feeling than many of those games.
Secondly, this is not a mission based, quest based game. There are quests but quite frankly they are very utilitarian. I rarely if ever do any quests as there is absolutely no point other than 1st class change, 2nd class change, etc.
As far as bots, please know that L2 has very few instances. Because of this you are just going to see them. In some places there are very few (light elf village on Hindemith doesn't have many at all including dark elf village. Dwarf town tends to have quite a bit. I challenge you to point to a AAA title that doesn't have bots or RMT. WoW, where I've rarely if ever seen bots has many servers where one can indugle in RMT. So they are always out there. No getting around that.
Thirdly, no on hangs around new player towns. Just doesn't happen. This game is about clan and alliance and power. So, level up as quickly as you can, get out of the new player area, go to Dion, meet people and join a clan or clan academy.
This is a pvp game. It does have a strong grindy PvE mechanic but as I said, this is based on it being an Asian grinder. it is what it is.
As far as customization, again... asian grinder. How they have dealt with customization is to add items in the game to add to your character. A variety of masks, Horns, many different types of head wear, circlets, etc.
If you want to judge this game based on Asian Grinder pvp games it quite frankly is the best for many reasons. If you want to judge it based on games like Lord of the Rings, Everquest II, etc... games that are more about quests and customization then it is not going to really stand up.
you have to evaluate it for what it is and the genre it resides in.
As far as who plays it? Many people play it. Especially Euro players. There are so many Euro players that they are adding a new Euro server in April.
As far as the North American playerbase, they are streteched over many servers, with Bartz being the most crowded.
So there you are.
edit: oh, and also know that the people who do play this game a very die hard and loyal. They have dealth with the issues that the game has and managed to make the game flourish in its own way. I can't say that it doesn't have problems. But I've yet to go to any game forum where there aren't peopel who don't complain about something.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Wife and I bought and played for a/b 5 minutes...
Was package was only $5 in the bargan bin....all expansion. Owell only $10 wasted
Well I probably play to short to seen all new things, but I realy don't get it, how you could say that "this is not a quest game", so why the hell there are any quest in the game? What for? I can't probably point any other MMO where a quest part is so useless.
I haven't think that way, but if you looked that way you can also said that there is no need to have any customization or even races. I don't think also about "fifty nose sliders", but there are many simple things like skin color, height, weight etc. And now, almost all looks that same.
You can say that there are other games where bot problem also appear, but honestly, I have never seen so many bots in one place. I have played with others MMO also this which are free, and I haven't find there so big problems with bots. Like for me it looks that they are just part of the game.
Well I know many people who used to play L2, and then try other games. Just one of my friends is still in L2. Like for me it looks that ncsoft is just ignoring this title. It is just this 3-4 years behind others titles.I tried the game and quickly uninstalled it afterwards.
Pay to play?! For that amount?! No way Jos
there are alot of bots in the game, but it dose not really bother me. as long as they don't get in my way they can do what ever they want ::)
Well I probably play to short to seen all new things, but I realy don't get it, how you could say that "this is not a quest game", so why the hell there are any quest in the game? What for? I can't probably point any other MMO where a quest part is so useless.
I haven't think that way, but if you looked that way you can also said that there is no need to have any customization or even races. I don't think also about "fifty nose sliders", but there are many simple things like skin color, height, weight etc. And now, almost all looks that same.
You can say that there are other games where bot problem also appear, but honestly, I have never seen so many bots in one place. I have played with others MMO also this which are free, and I haven't find there so big problems with bots. Like for me it looks that they are just part of the game.
Well I know many people who used to play L2, and then try other games. Just one of my friends is still in L2. Like for me it looks that ncsoft is just ignoring this title. It is just this 3-4 years behind others titles.Well, as far as quests, it is what it is. Quite frankly I think the dev's just can't get the quests right because their sense of what the game world is and how rewards are granted is a bit different from what some mmo players expect.
I will say it again. This is not a quest game. IT is not. Not. stop it. Not. The rewards are laugable at best and infuriating at worst. The dev's have created a pvp sandbox game. There, that is the only way I can think to describe it. The game is not about quests. It is about grinding, hunting grounds, fighting for your clan and alliance and politics. You can't really quest that as the game is about the players.
Problem is that players come expecting fun quests and rewards and customization, etc. But if you do a little research you find out that it is cut throat, scamming is allowed, it is open pvp, open pk, players can shut down towns if they so choose, take over hunting areas, pk lvl 4 characters until their fingers are sore and red, and essentially do what they want. Hard economy hard grind.
This has never been a secret. Yet for some reason players keep coming and complaining about things like lack of quests, hard grind, open pvp etc.
Not to say that hating those are bad things but you can't take a game based upon brutal gameplay and endurance and complain that it is hard. No sense in that. That would be like me going to Lord of the Rings and complaining that grinding for hours on end is not getting me the same xp as the quests. Well of course not, it's a quest based game.
You have to know what you are getting into. Now, if you want to compare it to similiar games such as Archlord or any other pvp games, shadowbane maybe, then ok... let's see that. But don't compare it to something that doesn't fit in the same league as it's apples to oranges.
As far as Nblitz's comment, this game really is heads and shoulders above your typical grinder. The lvl of quality and artistry is far above those free to play games. But it is an Asian grinder. If you don't like these games (and quite frankly no reason you should) then of course you won't like it. But it is worth every penny and then some to those who can look beyond that and see the game for what it is. A game about war and politics. THAT is the game.
If you come to the game and you are not looking for pvp, war, politics, aggressive economic tactics, a huge amount of work to get your character to be competitive, etc, then you have come to the wrong game.
No amount of great art design or exciting pvp animations is going to varnish over the fact that you are not playing EQII or WoW or LOTRO or City of Heroes, etc.
This game is about adopting a zen endurance and working together with clan and alliance. it's about your allies and enemies. That's it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Originally posted by Sovrath
...
As far as Nblitz's comment, this game really is heads and shoulders above your typical grinder. The lvl of quality and artistry is far above those free to play games. But it is an Asian grinder. If you don't like these games (and quite frankly no reason you should) then of course you won't like it. But it is worth every penny and then some to those who can look beyond that and see the game for what it is. A game about war and politics. THAT is the game...
My first first MMO was MU Online...It seemed similar (except graphics...ish) and MU is free. Hence my reaction when I tried the game.
I agree with everything else you said and hope people interested in trying the game also read your comment or are linked to it
Edit: grammar
I've heard of MU but have never played it so I can't really compare the two. What I do know is that the original lineage was supposed to be a bit like Diablo II. Then they made Lineage II and really wanted to surpass the average grinder.
My thought is that for people who want to have the art design of L2 (similiar design that is) and an easier levlelign curve as well as more quests, then they should go to Aion. At least that game is presenting itself as the type of game that the detractors of L2 are really looking for.
Incredible customization. No really, incredible, easier leveling that is slightly harder than WoW, Quests, and pvp that is a bit more focused to certain areas.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good post Sovrath, I think that is the most accurate description of L2 that I have read on these boards.
Thank you, appreciate it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I will say it again, if this is not a quest game, why they add quests to game?
For most of people who played LII and this is his First MMO that would not be a problem, I used to play it few years ago. But then I can say it was standard. I remember that ncsoft was telling that they will fix quest problem. What I see now, they don't change anything in this.
I also think that you can have a quest game AND still balanced exp for monsters.
And I also wasn't saying anything about that game being hard. That's not hard my friend it is just boring...
Have you played Rapellz for example? I can't say that Lineage is "far above".
You said about hard economy, about developing character, but here are bots again. They also have big impact on economy and developing characters when people are saying that they can create you maxed character in few days for some $... that's realy sick.
I know of course that in other games, there is also character selling, item selling but usualy this character is not created by bots...
I will say it again, if this is not a quest game, why they add quests to game?
For most of people who played LII and this is his First MMO that would not be a problem, I used to play it few years ago. But then I can say it was standard. I remember that ncsoft was telling that they will fix quest problem. What I see now, they don't change anything in this.
I also think that you can have a quest game AND still balanced exp for monsters.
And I also wasn't saying anything about that game being hard. That's not hard my friend it is just boring...
Have you played Rapellz for example? I can't say that Lineage is "far above".
You said about hard economy, about developing character, but here are bots again. They also have big impact on economy and developing characters when people are saying that they can create you maxed character in few days for some $... that's realy sick.
I know of course that in other games, there is also character selling, item selling but usualy this character is not created by bots...
CoX has PVP but it is not considered primarily as a PVP game. If you want PVP you go elsewhere. Lineage 2 may have quests but is not considered primarily a quest driven game. It can not made any clearer than that.
The devs did add more quests since then but the rewards haven't improved drastically. Reason being that crafting and trading is still the driving force in obtain gear in the game (not quests). That is their decision in what is important in the game. Quests (other than class changes) are not that important in this game.
Play WoW, LOFTRO, or EQII if you want quests.
they's no solid proof that Ncsoft dosen't care about bot's but most off the commiunty that play's l2 know's they don't
http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77552
http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78845
they's no solid proof that Ncsoft dosen't care about bot's but most off the commiunty that play's l2 know's they don't
http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77552
http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78845
LMAO, how did the issue of bots creep into this thread again ? Well don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question.
For future reference you can also add that in addition to NCSoft not caring about bots, the community doesn't either
Its only an issue for new players who don't research the game before they join to play it, or for old ones who left because of it :P
Regards,
Ellyrion Fiallathandriel
The Reckless Knight
Lunatris
I can't entirely answer the question regarding quests but I think Hoplite (who posted in this thread) has a handle on it. All gear is essentially craft based. To "give away" gear in a game where gear is extremely expensive and is mostly craft based undermines that mechanic.
That is one thing you can say about L2, the economy is very player based. Granted, Pro farmers have a part in that and I would never minimize their effect but in the end they are "players' of sorts. Get some hardcore players who actually play 12 hours or more per day and you would probably get similiar results regarding the collection of mats. Though of course the farmers now use bots to do what live people used to do.
Also, the quests are poorly written. Oh sure, there have been some "better" quests added. But to illustrate a huge problem with the L2 quest I will give an example.
For the subclass quest you have to do many different things and eventually prick Baium on the top floor of the Tower of Insolence. He is a high lvl boss. You have to have someone wake him (and that person usually dies if he can't use a blessed escape to get out of there - I've always seen them die) and then the Angels freak out because you have waken them so they rush in to do battle with him and to get you. It's a very involved quest.
However there is a lot of running around. And then more running around. And then just when you think you are done, you get to the quest giver and he says "oh wait, I don't have the thing that I need to give you the x... why don't you go find 'another person' who I loaned this to... once you get it bring it back".
WTF! There is no reason for this detour. But so many L2 quests have some version of this. Topped with poor quest rewards and not many people do them. Doesn't seem to bother the dev's all that much. And since everything is grind based (kill x monsters) most of the quest incorporate this mechanic.
As far as "hard". Well, I've heard the argument that doing something over and over and over again is not hard, it's just boring. But if you shift your thinking from the idea that "hard = skill or effort" to hard = not being able to do it quickly with a long event horizon" then you will realize what L2 hard is. It equals very easy mechanics (and this is done on purpose in order to get Korean players who were not so familiar wiht online games to be able to accomplish in game goals - read an article about that) but with long spans of time.
It is hard to get a character to lvl 80 in a month (not sure it's possible) not because of skill needed or or complexity but because the time and sheer effort it takes to do so excedes a month. It's not hard to climb a mountain. You put one foot in front of the other and you go. If it is a regular hike then the path is cut for you and you are just enjoying the scenery as you go. It is hard to climb, let's say Mt. Washington in the states in an hour. Just not even possible. But has nothing to do with skill. That is the L2 way.
Also, I have tried Rappelz. I felt that is was very similar to L2 but noted that it felt like a junky version of L2. When i mentioned "junky" grinders, Rappelz was a primary example of what i was thinknig of.
Now, this is not to say that L2 and the L2 dev's are polished masters. Not at all. WoW has infinitely more polish and attention to detail than L2. Quite frankly I feel they are arrogant, don't plan well, don't have a clear vision of the game and are sloppy. But having said that, L2 is far more polished and things are laid out in far better ways than from what I've seen in games like Rappelz. Rappelz had weird translations, text that wrapped in an odd way, windows felt junky when they opened, I was dumped in some place that I wasn't really clear where I was, etc. I also think that (if memory serves me well) there was more of the class relating to sex issue. I seem to remember there was something where what class I was was related to male/female. Granted, L2 just added the Kamael and they have that class/sex relationship but they are the only race that has that.
With L2, you have very delineated, race specific starting areas that, if you do the starter quests (ok... people usually do the starter quests to at least figure things out) you get an idea of the world you are in. You are told about the Neutral zone, and eventually you learn about the wars, about Floran being an outlaw town, etc. There is a world there with a history and a sense to it.
So yes, I think L2 is far above. You may or may not agree, and of course you are welcome to your opinion but I would put good money on L2 over Rappelz any day. At least when it come to Korean grinders. Rappelz to me felt more like Archlord in how it felt, how windows appeared, how the grind and starter areas were laid out etc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Lineage II has exploring quests, just so you get to know NPCs around and where they are placed at, getting you ready for the ingoming grind, and *maybe* as a small help for begginers, since, let's say you have to kill 50 wolves to level up, then, you kill 50 wolves, and receive 2000 adena extra, instead of killing 50 wolves only.
At higher levels some quests are quite important as a progress system, but never as a level/economic source, so, let's say it's an addon just so you can feel accomplished after finishing them, but as Sovrath said, this game isn't quest based, since you can totally ignore quests and since, in fact, you better ignore regular quests, those only help when you have no clue about the game.
And yeah, content-wise L2 has many things to do, but you need a clan and you need to know about the game features. It rapes F2P games completely if you manage to get to the funny part of it, the endgame politics.
That's not quite true, there are some quests like the Coin Collector Quest, the Legacy of Insolence Quest, the Giants Cave Quests parts 1 & 2, Dragon Valley Cave quests and perhaps the most prolific these days the Varka Silenos/Ketra Orc Alliance quests, to name a few, which are equally important to your progression and economic prosperity in the game.
These quests for those who are not familiar with the game are a cross section of recipe and material gathering quests for the various high end grades of weapons and equipment for which there is generally a constant demand.
Without access to these quests one cannot be "self sufficient" in the traditional sense and be able to gather and craft your own equipment. This may not be too crucial in the scheme of things as ofcourse you can play the market or otherwise make enough cash to buy your equipment. However, the constant need for new weapons and armour as a result of L2's item over enchantment system, (items are crystalised) there is always a significant market for parts and recipes obtained via these quests.
These can and do form the basis of a very lucrative income on completion of the quest.
However, as Ephimero points out the end rewards are generally only attainable as part of a clan effort, due to the number of raid encounters which conclude the quest cascade.
Regards,
Ellyrion Fiallathandriel
The Reckless Knight
Lunatris
That's not quite true, there are some quests like the Coin Collector Quest, the Legacy of Insolence Quest, the Giants Cave Quests parts 1 & 2, Dragon Valley Cave quests and perhaps the most prolific these days the Varka Silenos/Ketra Orc Alliance quests, to name a few, which are equally important to your progression and economic prosperity in the game.
These quests for those who are not familiar with the game are a cross section of recipe and material gathering quests for the various high end grades of weapons and equipment for which there is generally a constant demand.
Without access to these quests one cannot be "self sufficient" in the traditional sense and be able to gather and craft your own equipment. This may not be too crucial in the scheme of things as ofcourse you can play the market or otherwise make enough cash to buy your equipment. However, the constant need for new weapons and armour as a result of L2's item over enchantment system, (items are crystalised) there is always a significant market for parts and recipes obtained via these quests.
These can and do form the basis of a very lucrative income on completion of the quest.
However, as Ephimero points out the end rewards are generally only attainable as part of a clan effort, due to the number of raid encounters which conclude the quest cascade.
Regards,
Ellyrion Fiallathandriel
The Reckless Knight
Lunatris
What I wanted to say is that there are better ways to get the stuff done than doing quests, silenos/ketra ones being the exception cause those recipes are rarely seen in the market, I got top A equipment at level 67 just doing the profession quests, nothing else. Playing with the market ended up being a way more effective method.
5 minutes... what a couple of morons you must be.
sad
That's not quite true, there are some quests like the Coin Collector Quest, the Legacy of Insolence Quest, the Giants Cave Quests parts 1 & 2, Dragon Valley Cave quests and perhaps the most prolific these days the Varka Silenos/Ketra Orc Alliance quests, to name a few, which are equally important to your progression and economic prosperity in the game.
These quests for those who are not familiar with the game are a cross section of recipe and material gathering quests for the various high end grades of weapons and equipment for which there is generally a constant demand.
Without access to these quests one cannot be "self sufficient" in the traditional sense and be able to gather and craft your own equipment. This may not be too crucial in the scheme of things as ofcourse you can play the market or otherwise make enough cash to buy your equipment. However, the constant need for new weapons and armour as a result of L2's item over enchantment system, (items are crystalised) there is always a significant market for parts and recipes obtained via these quests.
These can and do form the basis of a very lucrative income on completion of the quest.
However, as Ephimero points out the end rewards are generally only attainable as part of a clan effort, due to the number of raid encounters which conclude the quest cascade.
Regards,
Ellyrion Fiallathandriel
The Reckless Knight
Lunatris
What I wanted to say is that there are better ways to get the stuff done than doing quests, silenos/ketra ones being the exception cause those recipes are rarely seen in the market, I got top A equipment at level 67 just doing the profession quests, nothing else. Playing with the market ended up being a way more effective method.
I think we've muddied the waters a bit WRT to quests. The concept of questing in L2 is not one of quest focus but quest concurrency. Put another way you don't focus on the quest you focus on the hunt which allows you to accomplish a number of quests simultaneously. They are more like a pursuit of interest and are much more subtle in shaping where the character will go hunt or how they will set themselves up for the task. Mechanically they are identical to other MMO counterparts, but within the millieu of L2 they serve a different purpose. Sometimes they're an outright chore as in the class change quests, where the reward is your new class, and others are just spare change to reduce the burden of paying for consumables. There is purpose in them, it just may not suit your playstyle. To be able to make an informed decision whether to pursue a quest or not, is a matter of doing some research about what the quest involves and what rewards it offers.
What is also an issue in these discussions is a sense of perspective. I am guilty of that myself. My perspective is based on a reasonably large active clan where the ppl have known each other for quite some time. The core of the clan is 3 yrs old and there are many passionate players who post their research internally on the forums. This not only speeds up research into topics but provides simultaneous class and viability advice in one. This is one of the premier strengths in changing the new players paradigm to look at L2 as a clan based game as opposed to a happy go lucky WoW/EQ2/LoTRO solo/duo environment. I accept that this is not the perspective of new players coming into their first MMO game cold, or perhaps players from small groups which are trying hard to balance the XP/craft cycle. Forums such as this play a significant part in trying to re-align the expectations of new players. Its just a shame not many ppl read them before playing.
Fundamentally though, the key to L2, are THE PLAYERS, moreso than in any other MMO. Firstly because of the much discussed L2 progression curve (ie. "teh grind" ) where the simple analogy of many hands make light work is constantly ignored. Secondly because unlike other MMO's L2 was designed for two end games: One PvE raid based much like other exisiting MMO's and the other a PvP based War for control of PvE realestate which has a significant impact not only on the clan economy, but by logical extension the individual players which comprise it, narrowing down the loop significantly for both the crafting and XP cycles. This is how you ultimately get ahead in the game ! The lack of cooperation, greed and selfishness from "western" players who try to play L2 on their terms is astounding and at the same time the root cause of the problems in L2. The amount of ego stroking to coax even the basic most form of cooperation from players is very frustrating. Hence most of the longstanding stable clans are very clique like and filter their applicants thoroughly.
The game engine supports and encourages soloing to those who want to try it for the first 20 (arguably 40 levels) . This IS NOT the overall intent of L2, its just an option for those who just want to try out the game. I agree there is not enough "official advertising" to highlight this point, but thats part of their marketing too and they expect players to read up on the game before they commit to it fully.
I see many players posting here looking to carve out some form of existence from L2 in an EQ2, WoW or LoTRO style.
It just doesn't work that way in L2 and all you're doing is trying to ram a square peg in a round hole.
Regards,
Ellyrion Fiallathandriel
The Reckless Knight
Lunatris
Why I play this game and I LOVE
IT. I hardly ever play with my level 70 full Vengeful gladiators and zul pve epics warlock in WoW now. I can honestly say I like my brand new level 22 human mystic on Luna just as much 
. I honestly don't know why I left L2. I find the ksing and bots hilarious now and I love the pvp that ensues. I was really pissed when I accidentally went red first day, but it was still a good time. The dwarf village was just "lol". Too bad the Russians are at clan level 3 :X.
People who enjoy a well based RPG.
Graphics are nice too. Though I feel they need some work. (A few more rocks here and there).
The dwarf stating area is way too plain, as in looks just painted. Needs more Alt P stuff.
GlassEye
well. one of the things there is good about this game, is that u dont need to sit up in the middle of the night, to go instances with your guild or whatever. u can do it all by yourself, and that is a very good thing. but it is getting pretty borring too fast. but then u just take a break in a day, and u like to go grinde again.
and ofc u can go make some nice pvp, and the pvp in this game is just awesome, and it is not takeing u too long to get the higher lvls, so u can go and make some real pvp, with friends, or whatever.