You have to understand the difference between Doom2 or 3 or any FPS that uses small levels with lots of corners and low Line Of Sight viewing distances. In those levels you create a small little world or "shoebox world" as some call them, and then paint a fake sky over-top of them. One of those types of Levels couldn't even constitute a city or large town which we use for a battle area in WW2OL much less be able to make up a whole rolling non-stop terrrain that spans hundreds of kilometers in every direction. No limited Line of Sight, No fogging of view after hundreds of meters, in this game we all can see for atleast several kilometers, the planes can see even further then that I believe.
Its a nice dream of having the scale and scope of ww2ol with the graphics of Doom2 or 3, but it will never happen anytime soon. Not with current technology. The Rats chose to start with basic graphics, low polygons, there is no Boxing or limited size of areas here, its one big world, there is no fake sky up to a certain point, you can see for kilometer's up as well as around and you can see planes that are kilometer's above you as they dive down to bomb you. That's a really big difference and it requires a totally different approach to make it work.
The real question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to overlook the lower graphics for the sake of the gameplay, because you can't have both. Not yet. And the thing is, if anyone is likely to able to eventually have them both, it will likely be CRS who does it first, simply because you would have to build it their way, the way CRS did it, by starting at low-polygons, working out all the bugs and technical issues in your Engine and only then begin to slowly increase your texture resolutions which they've already started to do, replacing old low polygon models with more asthetically pleasing ones tat have more polygons, which they've also already started to do. They had to start where they did, and now that they have the beast under control (or as much as one can expect to control such a large and unique beast) and they are updating it and making it look alot better and immersive. But they could not have done it by say putting thousands of small shoebox world pieces together that are stunning and making a continuously zoneless world from them slowly by breaking the invisible barriers or such down... it just doesn't work that way.
I really don't think it looks all that bad these days actually. They are replacing the remaining paper thin buildings, new first person infantry views next on the list. They are addressing the remaining low graphic points in the game. Don't kid yourself it will never look like Doom2 or 3, but if you understand the difference between them you'll understand and accept that this game will never ever look as good as those games. But thats ok for me, because I get bored of the simplistic "rat in a maze" after a short while. I have been playing ww2ol for 3 years and still can't get bored of it. Sure I get "annoyed" with it at times, and take short breaks while I play FPS's like America's Army but I quickly remember afterwards why I still love to play ww2ol. It gets very old running around hte same small maps fighting small unit skirmishes where nearly every other player on my team is John Rambo and could care less about me much less be interested in making a battle plan and working as a team.
What were the most recent game screenshots you've seen? If you like I can take some for you. I play ww2ol at 1024x768 with everything on, so I could take some pretty sweet looking battle shots, or just shots that show you what big changes have occurred over the past year or so.
If you still can't accept the graphics ww2ol has now, then I'd recommend you should likely wait till the end of this year and take another look then. They'll have made a good number of graphical improvements and enhancements they have been playing on by that time you may just be pleasantly surprised.
I don't think it looks bad at all, considering that you can engage enemy tanks with AT Guns or Tanks at over 2000 meters (long shot that is). Plus, its really fun when a huge group of people prepare, form up, and smash into an enemy held defended town. The volume of sound coming through when your in the middle of that engagement is awsome. Its hard to describe when MGs are going off everywhere, rifle shots from every bush, explosions small and large behind -infront and above ya. Then if it happens at night, damn its a strobe light show from everywhere.
Graphics do not make a game great, the gameplay does.
Sure wwiiol does not have the best graphics in the world but it makes up for it in an awesome gaming experience.
What other game can give you tanks,planes,boats and infantry all hammering the town you are trying to defend? Plus all being controlled by real people and not computer controlled.
This is the best game ever. Having less down-time ingame will come with alittle experience. This game is for adult adults and takes a bit of patients. But the payoff is tremendous!
Very very fun, try it, get to know it. 14 day trial is not enough imo, but it will give a taste.
1. Graphics 7/10 2. Sound 8/10 3. Realism 3/10 (It beats BF1942 .... JUST) 4. Long term playability 8/10 5. Community 2/10
I've been part of WW2OL since before release in June 2001. Frankly I've found the game to be more and more disappointing over the past couple of years. CRS is great at making promises, but unfortunately those promises never seem to be fulfilled.
Stay tuned for a "WW2OL-killer" expected in February 2005. I can't provide details as yet, but its a first person MMOG initially set in Europe 1943. Early alphas show graphics 'almost' at the level of IL2-FB. What is going to distinguish it from WW2OL is much higher fidelity, both in flight models and visual damage on aircraft, ships, armored vehicles and even INFANTRY!
I really have to question where you would get that Realism score... how is it just better then BF1942 where Tanks have hitpoints and can be slowly worn down by a pistol? Sorry but that dog just won't hunt.
I'll be interested in seeing this mystery ww2ol-killer game next year, but don't expect me to hold my breath. I have this feeling that your idea of fidelity and mine are worlds apart. But that's just a hunch, given how woefully off mark your realism score is, not to mention you compared it to a laser-beam hit point shooter. Just tells me you really don't understand the ballistics system in ww2ol much less the community and all the rest.
Still I can't say as I'm not intrigued to see what game it is your talking about, I'll keep my ear to the ground.
Demarii, WW2OL also uses a hitpoint system, the only difference being that they do not incorporate the idea of accumulated damage.
In Bf1942 a pistol CAN take out a tank, because the damage from each pistol shot is accumulated against the target.
In WW2OL, the impacting round has to have sufficient energy to penetrate before it can do any damage at all.
Nevertheless, hitpoints are still used ..... fire 100 20mm rounds at the fuselage of any bomber and it will generate no damage whatsoever. You have to hit certain critical components before damage accrues to the vehicle. When you hit those critical components, damage accrues in exactly the same way that it does in Bf1942, assuming initial penetration.
Both models are equally a-historical.
You'd really need to take a close look at a detailed damage log from WW2OL to see the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Oh, and if you're concerned about the realism score .. ask yourself this:
A 'simulation' seeks to provide the tools to recreate the experience of an event. Are you seriously saying that WW2OL is any kind of 'simulation' of the blitzkreig, or of warfare in general in the 1940-1942 period?
-No ability to surround enemy troops. -No ability to cut lines of supply. -No ability to attrite units unless they are already spawned in. -After 3 years, we're still bumping radio tables to effect capture. -In WW2OL, the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is a fighter aircraft??? -Bombers can drop ordnance 2 feet above the roof of a tank and survive? (Read the recent hangar threads for confirmation of this) -The most devastating weapon against infantry and armour in real life (artillery) is not even modelled in game?
And yet what has CRS's focus been devoted to over the past several months? Emotes for infantry, graphical enhancements (nice as they have been, but essentially worthless since inf POV is still buried in his navel) and Anti-Tank Rifles!
How could you possibly expect a better realism score than 3/10?
I really hope your not trying to convince any reader that the BF42 damage system is similar to WWIIOLs system because you can label them "hitpoint" systems. Anything that tries to represent reality on a computer will in fact use a "hitpoint" system of one type or another just for the simple fact that we as humans can only understand reality in a mathimatical model (ie relation formulas using finite numbers and stuff).
I'm sure that you would agree with me in the statement that a real pistol shooting a real tank infinite number of times will never make it blow up. Well this is the result in the WWIIOL's "hitpoint" system and not the BF42 system. Oh and your example of hitting a fuselage on a bomber just means that the bomber's damage model currently doesn't have the detail of being removed after being hit. But it will, do you know why? Because today wings, tail surfaces, and engine nacelles do have the ability of being removed from the plane caused by damage.
Well, I'm not going to argue with your realism score but I would like to mention that CRS and most of the long term community did figure out that if WWIIOL was made to your simulation definition, the game would die due to lack of allied players because back then, Germany did have all the advantages.
As for your points below:
"-No ability to surround enemy troops." Sure there is, if you have enough of your friends log in, surround an enemy town and waa laa they are surrounded.
"-No ability to cut lines of supply." Ha, this happens all the time, in fact it's starting to be a general rule for any attacker to send lightly armored units behind the enemys lines and ambush players trying to manually resupply a defensive position. Also on a strategic level, if the enemy captures surrounding towns, then that town is both surrounded and cut off from automatic (3hr) resupply.
"-No ability to attrite units unless they are already spawned in." Well true, CRS stated a long time ago that players had to control all major functions of all units. So no AI riflemen ever. But, you can make people spawn in by just capturing the town. Simple
"-After 3 years, we're still bumping radio tables to effect capture." Yea but standing in a close area for 2 minutes like in Joint Ops to change a flag on a bunker sound about the same to me.
"-In WW2OL, the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is a fighter aircraft???" This statement is really really funny cause I just check this on the stat page. Just for this campaign alone that started in June, the number of allied infantry kills from axis fighters is only 4,936. Now the number of allied infantry kills from axis infantry is 403,498. Big difference I think. And just for sheits and grins, I checked the number of allied infantry kills from all axis tanks. It's just a measly 96,037. So I would like to revise your statement to make it more truthful and state the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is the enemy infantryman. In case anyone would like to check for themselves, just go to this site http://csr.wwiionline.com/scripts/services/index.jsp and use the global stats section and under that use Unit vs Unit.
"-Bombers can drop ordnance 2 feet above the roof of a tank and survive? (Read the recent hangar threads for confirmation of this)" This is probably a receint problem that will be fixed soon, because I can tell ya that I have killed myself in game dropping a bomb too close to the ground many (too many) times.
"-The most devastating weapon against infantry and armour in real life (artillery) is not even modelled in game?" Not modeled, what about the 5inch guns on the destroyer, the 88mm cannon in the german spawn, the 75mm cannon on the StugIII, the PZ4, and on the french Char, the 40mm bofors in all armies. Its there but currently only in direct fire applications. If you want over the horizon Artillery to matter, you'll need to wait for the ordance server.
Well I would like to finish with this. From what I read, CRS has been focusing on new features called DEPLOYMENT, TERRAIN II, and a new UI for several/many months. Infantry emotes, ATRs, Rifle Grenadiers, Lean, Town orders (ie Fallback or Hold at all Cost), 3D trees/bushes, and etc. have only been released in the past several months.
By the way Kadesh, what is your ingame name and what side do you play on mostly?
If you keep this up I may just piss my pants laughing over here Kadesh. Those points especially the ones about ww2ol ballistics system being equal to a simple hitpoint system are over simplifications of the issue. There are fundamental differences between those systems, and just because all things of virtual "permanence" must be assigned a value or hitpoint or threshold does not make the two systems equal. Your just digging a hole to jump in if you keep following that train of thought.
It was a funny read none-the-less, I'm glad Slamen got to it first I wouldn't have time to do it justice with the little time I have left tonight. S!
Originally posted by Slamen I'm sure that you would agree with me in the statement that a real pistol shooting a real tank infinite number of times will never make it blow up. Well this is the result in the WWIIOL's "hitpoint" system and not the BF42 system. Oh and your example of hitting a fuselage on a bomber just means that the bomber's damage model currently doesn't have the detail of being removed after being hit.
So, hitting something 100 times and blowing something up (that should NOT blow up) is somehow less realistic than hitting something 100 times and NOT blowing it up (when it SHOULD blow up)? Ooookkaaayyy
Originally posted by Slamen Well, I'm not going to argue with your realism score .....
Wise decision
Originally posted by Slamen but I would like to mention that CRS and most of the long term community did figure out that if WWIIOL was made to your simulation definition, the game would die due to lack of allied players because back then, Germany did have all the advantages.
Huh? The Allies had more tanks, BETTER tanks, more men, and vastly more artillery. Somehow that's a DISADVANTAGE for the Allied forces????
Originally posted by Slamen -No ability to cut lines of supply." Ha, this happens all the time, in fact it's starting to be a general rule for any attacker to send lightly armored units behind the enemys lines and ambush players trying to manually resupply a defensive position. Also on a strategic level, if the enemy captures surrounding towns, then that town is both surrounded and cut off from automatic (3hr) resupply.
Geez.. have you even played since "no linky, no cappy" went into effect??? [quote]Originally posted by Slamen [b]"-No ability to attrite units unless they are already spawned in."[/color] Well true, CRS stated a long time ago that players had to control all major functions of all units. So no AI riflemen ever. But, you can make people spawn in by just capturing the town. Simple [/b][/quote]
Until they decide to issue "Fallback" of course, when the TOE magically teleports to neighbouring towns
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen [b]"-After 3 years, we're still bumping radio tables to effect capture."[/color] Yea but standing in a close area for 2 minutes like in Joint Ops to change a flag on a bunker sound about the same to me.[/b][/quote]
Did I suggest it should be like Joint Ops?
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen [b]-In WW2OL, the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is a fighter aircraft???"[/color] This statement is really really funny cause I just check this on the stat page. Just for this campaign alone that started in June, the number of allied infantry kills from axis fighters is only 4,936. Now the number of allied infantry kills from axis infantry is 403,498. Big difference I think. And just for sheits and grins, I checked the number of allied infantry kills from all axis tanks. It's just a measly 96,037. So I would like to revise your statement to make it more truthful and state the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is the enemy infantryman. [/b][/quote]
Quite correct. A silly thing to say on my behalf. Sometimes it just seems that way though
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen [b]"-The most devastating weapon against infantry and armour in real life (artillery) is not even modelled in game?" [/color] Not modeled, what about the 5inch guns on the destroyer, the 88mm cannon in the german spawn, the 75mm cannon on the StugIII, the PZ4, and on the french Char, the 40mm bofors in all armies. Its there but currently only in direct fire applications. If you want over the horizon Artillery to matter, you'll need to wait for the ordance server.[/b][/quote]
Assuming you can drop that 88 or 75 HE round right on top of that infantryman's head of course Remember, no statistical HE for anything but grenades. Oh and of course I forgot the magical ordnance server. You mean I assume the ordnance server that CRS was talking about in early 2002 ... the one that was going to be ready in 4-12 weeks.
You seriously expect to see an ordnance server this side of 2010???
Originally posted by Slamen Well I would like to finish with this. From what I read, CRS has been focusing on new features called DEPLOYMENT, TERRAIN II, and a new UI for several/many months. Infantry emotes, ATRs, Rifle Grenadiers, Lean, Town orders (ie Fallback or Hold at all Cost), 3D trees/bushes, and etc. have only been released in the past several months.
See my reply to demarii in the other thread if you want to know my opinion re these features. Whilst I agree that CRS has a need to attract newbies into the game, and whilst eye-candy is still high priority for that reason, I would argue that there is much which needs to be fixed at the CORE of the game before we start worrying about radial clutter, ATR's, infantry emotes, and 3D bushes which after 3 years still do not provide cover due to the infantryman's eyes being somehow located in the centre of his navel
Originally posted by Slamen By the way Kadesh, what is your ingame name and what side do you play on mostly?
Quite frankly, none of your business CRS Forum Rules of Conduct being what they are, independent forums like these are often the only place where a completely unbiased point of view regarding WW2OL can be aired.
I mean, its great that you like the game. Heck I've been subscribed since LONG before June 2001. I was there on the day that the servers first opened to traffic, and crashed in a spectacular show. I remember thinking on 5th June 2001 "Oh God, tomorrow is going to be a bloodbath once people see what this game is REALLY like".
Even though I don't play on the live server much any more, I keep contributing on a monthly basis. I had a LOT of respect for the Rats when the game first opened, mainly because I thought they had the courage to try something that had never been done before.
type of damage model is much much more detailed and realistic than the BF42 damage model. Since you're a day 1 player, you know what all the lines represent.
Shesh, we could start another thread on arguing the advantages the Germans had in 1940 and they didn't win by just luck but by their military doctrine.
Have I ever played since the no linky thing. Yea I played back then, (day 1 player here too) and I remember the salt n pepper maps where there wasn't a front line but pockets of axis/allies all over. I think the no link/no cap really helped this game make it look like a war game.
To give another example of cutting off resupply, last Friday night I was helping the Brits attacking a specific town. A group of A13s/armored cars drove out behind the town and ambushed anyone resuppling from back line towns. This was under orders from the guys organizing the attack. And it worked. In game, the Germans were not able to boost their defense with armor brought from rear towns nor bring trucks of infantry up to keep the brits out. This is not an isolated event but happens when an organized attack with enough people involved gets executed reguardless of side.
Well no you didn't suggest Joint Ops, but then again you didn't suggest anything. Since JO just came out, you would think that if a better cap system existed, it would of been added in that game. But I noticed that it's cap system is very similar to WWIIOL's with the spawn point being the objective, infantry needs to sit and wait for the capture to occure, bla bla bla...
Yea, I'm not sure why the new stat model for shrapnel is not included into the HE tank shells yet. But I'm sure it will with one of the many patches that continue to come out, and probably soon. Oh don't forget the concussion effects with HE too. Its in there and in fact I think they had to tone it down from the origional release back in 2003 since it was too deadly.
Hmm, see a Ordanance server this side of 2010, well yea I would take that bet.
Fine, none of my business. Ok what ever. But when was the last time you were in game? Or maybe a better question, when was the last time you were in game and had fun?
Kadesh: If u want to find that something is wrong u will.
Lets see this way. Can u name any other game that offer so much possibilities, and closer to the real-ife WWII?
Where u can blow of parts on vehicles? Organizes hundreds of ppl for one specific objective? Can see 3-4k kilometeres? Where u have a 1/2 scale map of a real life map? Where u get new things every 4-6 weeks? Where u can speak with the developers and have real impact about how the game is developed (ex: TrackIR, couple of fixes)? Which offers so much variety of gameplay? Which has better community? Where can i get a free WWIIOnline T-shirt from one of the Rats for making the hungarian HQ? ))
I love this game, nothing can beat it. If u dont like what u see, nobody is forcing u to play. I think u need to change the way u look at things, life will be so much better this way.
Get a life beatbox.. you have nothing better to do rather than slander the game we come here to discuss.. not talk down on.. do us a favor and just leave.. and don't look back
_______________________ Captain. Qweets of the Black Scorpion task force.. Axis WWII Online
This guy was banned from the game so many times for abusive language and play, even kicked out of my sqaud (known for abusive people) because of his complaining. Don't even listen to him, completely erase his comments from your mind.
BB after reading what you wrote I'm not really that mystified by what happened to get you kicked out of squad and game. Man you got a serious Ego thing goign on there.
Here's two remedies I offer to you in hopes you can recover...
1 ) Chant this mantra over and over... "It's just a game."
2 ) Understand that this game will never really become _Complete_ it is what it is, and it continues to evolve into something greater.
You need to make a choice about what you think will make the game Complete enough in your eyes, and understand that just because you have to do so does not mean other players have to view this game from such a limited and basic perspective.
You know who you remind me of? This little kid who came out to the paintball games the other weekend, and started to totally flip up because his gear and gun wasn't as good as some of his opposition. Most of us had pump actions but a few of our buddies are avid players and they have semi-auto's. Well he just HAD to have the best, and right there. But nobody was going to give him their expensive guns to play with so we ended up convincing him that just being on the side of the semi-auto's was enough to be a stone cold killer!
Guess who took point...
No offense bro, but just from your very attitude and egotistical way of viewing yourself, you were likely the cause of your own demise. A good leader doesn't demand respect. He earns it. And with your kind of attitude I doubt you could. Just my opinion, I may be wrong.
Originally posted by beatbox You are wrong on many points, i earned more respect than you can imagine. You just cant please to everyone. Problem is i lost my respect for wwiionline and CRS, since they treated me irrespectfully. I guess i'll just sing 'it's just a game' after dying to a clipper ......
Yup Beatb0x. You earned so much respect that your own squad threw you out
Originally posted by Astinius I am a big wwii history buff and really like the idea of this game. I was there on the first day of release and "tried" to play it. It was by far the worst release of a MMORPG in history and even CR's admitted it. The game IMO is just to clunky and the graphics suck bigtime. They need to goto John Carmack and get on their needs and beg him for his graphcis engine or goto india and pay a wageslave to design them a good one. Gettign burned by the release and looking at the horrable graphics/effects just turned me compelely off FOREVER on this game. I would only consider coming back if they sold it to ID software and Mr. Carmack re-built it from scratch. Can you imagine a WWII mmorpg based on the Doom2 graphics engine?
I think you should go to some of the other games listed on this site and seriously look at their graphics. This game is not that bad. Several months ago I would have agreed with you but anymore, no. There are only a few eyesores left in game and those are slated for some serious graphics upgrades very soon.
Seriously, the screenshots above are only a small taste. There is a new grass sytem in and even flowers for cryin out loud. The aircraft come apart and blow up and if you hit the ammo storage area the tanks blow up real pretty like. The turrets go 100 feet in the air if he was still full of ammo, hehe.
The water got an overhaul for the rivers and looks pretty decent. Little details like the flags got a touch up so they wave now. New buildings are on the way and in fact we already have some new ones. We have a new Depot building that wasn't here when you last played. We have new barracks in the AB's which are 2 stories. We have a new Garage in the AB that is very cool and has lots of new close quarters fighting areas in it. The flag building is being overhauled and is coming in the next patch. I already say a screen shot and it looks very good.
Now get this. The graphics they have loaded at RAT headquartes are much better. The ones we see are 8Bit or something like that. Heard someone talking about this after the DSallas Minicon. He said the textures the will role out soon are so much better but the only thing they were waiting on is for most people to upgrade their machines and upgrade to broadband. They did a poll recently and only like 4% of the players are on 56k and most have good computers and good graphics cards so they will most likely do the upgrade fairly soon.
They also have a submarine that they have played with in beta, that will be very very cool.
I feel your pain on the release but seriously, that is old news and the game is so much better. If the game had been released in the form it's in now, CRS would be millionaires and you would have never left.
Would we love to see DOOM 3 Graphics in this game? Sure who wouldn't but look at some of those games coming out soon. Look at Outpost, it's on the main page. That game is supposed to come out next month and looks like total crap compared to WWIIOL.
I spent almost all day today looking through the games listed on this site and there are a lot of them that don't look as good as WWIIOL and there are many that only look as good. I even recognized the same speedtree technology in some of them. Speeking of those trees. Remember the old "Hard Forests"? They are no longer hard. You can drive tanks right through them and they actually have many trees that make up the forests. They are very cool and add a lot to the immersion. We use them all the time to hide big formations of tanks and infantry. We use them to hide in as we approach a FB to take it down.
Almost all of the old crappy vegetation is gone and there is just one more piece they have to go and that is the old hedgerows that lined the roads.
The main city buildings and the churches are getting an upgrade very soon to.
Seriously, take a look at those screens and then go look at some of the other games. One I looked at looked like Dues Ex which is fine but it's all indorr shoebox type stuff. Every game I looked at that had a long view distance and was any sort of shooter looked like crap compared to WWIIOL.
Comments
You have to understand the difference between Doom2 or 3 or any FPS that uses small levels with lots of corners and low Line Of Sight viewing distances. In those levels you create a small little world or "shoebox world" as some call them, and then paint a fake sky over-top of them. One of those types of Levels couldn't even constitute a city or large town which we use for a battle area in WW2OL much less be able to make up a whole rolling non-stop terrrain that spans hundreds of kilometers in every direction. No limited Line of Sight, No fogging of view after hundreds of meters, in this game we all can see for atleast several kilometers, the planes can see even further then that I believe.
Its a nice dream of having the scale and scope of ww2ol with the graphics of Doom2 or 3, but it will never happen anytime soon. Not with current technology. The Rats chose to start with basic graphics, low polygons, there is no Boxing or limited size of areas here, its one big world, there is no fake sky up to a certain point, you can see for kilometer's up as well as around and you can see planes that are kilometer's above you as they dive down to bomb you. That's a really big difference and it requires a totally different approach to make it work.
The real question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to overlook the lower graphics for the sake of the gameplay, because you can't have both. Not yet. And the thing is, if anyone is likely to able to eventually have them both, it will likely be CRS who does it first, simply because you would have to build it their way, the way CRS did it, by starting at low-polygons, working out all the bugs and technical issues in your Engine and only then begin to slowly increase your texture resolutions which they've already started to do, replacing old low polygon models with more asthetically pleasing ones tat have more polygons, which they've also already started to do. They had to start where they did, and now that they have the beast under control (or as much as one can expect to control such a large and unique beast) and they are updating it and making it look alot better and immersive. But they could not have done it by say putting thousands of small shoebox world pieces together that are stunning and making a continuously zoneless world from them slowly by breaking the invisible barriers or such down... it just doesn't work that way.
I really don't think it looks all that bad these days actually. They are replacing the remaining paper thin buildings, new first person infantry views next on the list. They are addressing the remaining low graphic points in the game. Don't kid yourself it will never look like Doom2 or 3, but if you understand the difference between them you'll understand and accept that this game will never ever look as good as those games. But thats ok for me, because I get bored of the simplistic "rat in a maze" after a short while. I have been playing ww2ol for 3 years and still can't get bored of it. Sure I get "annoyed" with it at times, and take short breaks while I play FPS's like America's Army but I quickly remember afterwards why I still love to play ww2ol. It gets very old running around hte same small maps fighting small unit skirmishes where nearly every other player on my team is John Rambo and could care less about me much less be interested in making a battle plan and working as a team.
What were the most recent game screenshots you've seen? If you like I can take some for you. I play ww2ol at 1024x768 with everything on, so I could take some pretty sweet looking battle shots, or just shots that show you what big changes have occurred over the past year or so.
If you still can't accept the graphics ww2ol has now, then I'd recommend you should likely wait till the end of this year and take another look then. They'll have made a good number of graphical improvements and enhancements they have been playing on by that time you may just be pleasantly surprised.
I don't think it looks bad at all, considering that you can engage enemy tanks with AT Guns or Tanks at over 2000 meters (long shot that is). Plus, its really fun when a huge group of people prepare, form up, and smash into an enemy held defended town. The volume of sound coming through when your in the middle of that engagement is awsome. Its hard to describe when MGs are going off everywhere, rifle shots from every bush, explosions small and large behind -infront and above ya. Then if it happens at night, damn its a strobe light show from everywhere.
http://www.wwiiol-pilots-manual.com/
Graphics do not make a game great, the gameplay does.
Sure wwiiol does not have the best graphics in the world but it makes up for it in an awesome gaming experience.
What other game can give you tanks,planes,boats and infantry all hammering the town you are trying to defend? Plus all being controlled by real people and not computer controlled.
There is just no better game in my opinion.
www.Razorbacks2.com
www.razorbacks-squad.com
This is the best game ever. Having less down-time ingame will come with alittle experience. This game is for adult adults and takes a bit of patients. But the payoff is tremendous!
Very very fun, try it, get to know it. 14 day trial is not enough imo, but it will give a taste.
-J
I'd probably rate the game as follows:
1. Graphics 7/10
2. Sound 8/10
3. Realism 3/10 (It beats BF1942 .... JUST)
4. Long term playability 8/10
5. Community 2/10
I've been part of WW2OL since before release in June 2001. Frankly I've found the game to be more and more disappointing over the past couple of years. CRS is great at making promises, but unfortunately those promises never seem to be fulfilled.
Stay tuned for a "WW2OL-killer" expected in February 2005. I can't provide details as yet, but its a first person MMOG initially set in Europe 1943. Early alphas show graphics 'almost' at the level of IL2-FB. What is going to distinguish it from WW2OL is much higher fidelity, both in flight models and visual damage on aircraft, ships, armored vehicles and even INFANTRY!
I really have to question where you would get that Realism score... how is it just better then BF1942 where Tanks have hitpoints and can be slowly worn down by a pistol? Sorry but that dog just won't hunt.
I'll be interested in seeing this mystery ww2ol-killer game next year, but don't expect me to hold my breath. I have this feeling that your idea of fidelity and mine are worlds apart. But that's just a hunch, given how woefully off mark your realism score is, not to mention you compared it to a laser-beam hit point shooter. Just tells me you really don't understand the ballistics system in ww2ol much less the community and all the rest.
Still I can't say as I'm not intrigued to see what game it is your talking about, I'll keep my ear to the ground.
Demarii, WW2OL also uses a hitpoint system, the only difference being that they do not incorporate the idea of accumulated damage.
In Bf1942 a pistol CAN take out a tank, because the damage from each pistol shot is accumulated against the target.
In WW2OL, the impacting round has to have sufficient energy to penetrate before it can do any damage at all.
Nevertheless, hitpoints are still used ..... fire 100 20mm rounds at the fuselage of any bomber and it will generate no damage whatsoever. You have to hit certain critical components before damage accrues to the vehicle. When you hit those critical components, damage accrues in exactly the same way that it does in Bf1942, assuming initial penetration.
Both models are equally a-historical.
You'd really need to take a close look at a detailed damage log from WW2OL to see the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Oh, and if you're concerned about the realism score .. ask yourself this:
A 'simulation' seeks to provide the tools to recreate the experience of an event. Are you seriously saying that WW2OL is any kind of 'simulation' of the blitzkreig, or of warfare in general in the 1940-1942 period?
-No ability to surround enemy troops.
-No ability to cut lines of supply.
-No ability to attrite units unless they are already spawned in.
-After 3 years, we're still bumping radio tables to effect capture.
-In WW2OL, the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is a fighter aircraft???
-Bombers can drop ordnance 2 feet above the roof of a tank and survive? (Read the recent hangar threads for confirmation of this)
-The most devastating weapon against infantry and armour in real life (artillery) is not even modelled in game?
And yet what has CRS's focus been devoted to over the past several months? Emotes for infantry, graphical enhancements (nice as they have been, but essentially worthless since inf POV is still buried in his navel) and Anti-Tank Rifles!
How could you possibly expect a better realism score than 3/10?
Kadesh,
I really hope your not trying to convince any reader that the BF42 damage system is similar to WWIIOLs system because you can label them "hitpoint" systems. Anything that tries to represent reality on a computer will in fact use a "hitpoint" system of one type or another just for the simple fact that we as humans can only understand reality in a mathimatical model (ie relation formulas using finite numbers and stuff).
I'm sure that you would agree with me in the statement that a real pistol shooting a real tank infinite number of times will never make it blow up. Well this is the result in the WWIIOL's "hitpoint" system and not the BF42 system. Oh and your example of hitting a fuselage on a bomber just means that the bomber's damage model currently doesn't have the detail of being removed after being hit. But it will, do you know why? Because today wings, tail surfaces, and engine nacelles do have the ability of being removed from the plane caused by damage.
Well, I'm not going to argue with your realism score but I would like to mention that CRS and most of the long term community did figure out that if WWIIOL was made to your simulation definition, the game would die due to lack of allied players because back then, Germany did have all the advantages.
As for your points below:
"-No ability to surround enemy troops." Sure there is, if you have enough of your friends log in, surround an enemy town and waa laa they are surrounded.
"-No ability to cut lines of supply." Ha, this happens all the time, in fact it's starting to be a general rule for any attacker to send lightly armored units behind the enemys lines and ambush players trying to manually resupply a defensive position. Also on a strategic level, if the enemy captures surrounding towns, then that town is both surrounded and cut off from automatic (3hr) resupply.
"-No ability to attrite units unless they are already spawned in." Well true, CRS stated a long time ago that players had to control all major functions of all units. So no AI riflemen ever. But, you can make people spawn in by just capturing the town. Simple
"-After 3 years, we're still bumping radio tables to effect capture." Yea but standing in a close area for 2 minutes like in Joint Ops to change a flag on a bunker sound about the same to me.
"-In WW2OL, the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is a fighter aircraft???" This statement is really really funny cause I just check this on the stat page. Just for this campaign alone that started in June, the number of allied infantry kills from axis fighters is only 4,936. Now the number of allied infantry kills from axis infantry is 403,498. Big difference I think. And just for sheits and grins, I checked the number of allied infantry kills from all axis tanks. It's just a measly 96,037. So I would like to revise your statement to make it more truthful and state the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is the enemy infantryman. In case anyone would like to check for themselves, just go to this site http://csr.wwiionline.com/scripts/services/index.jsp and use the global stats section and under that use Unit vs Unit.
"-Bombers can drop ordnance 2 feet above the roof of a tank and survive? (Read the recent hangar threads for confirmation of this)" This is probably a receint problem that will be fixed soon, because I can tell ya that I have killed myself in game dropping a bomb too close to the ground many (too many) times.
"-The most devastating weapon against infantry and armour in real life (artillery) is not even modelled in game?" Not modeled, what about the 5inch guns on the destroyer, the 88mm cannon in the german spawn, the 75mm cannon on the StugIII, the PZ4, and on the french Char, the 40mm bofors in all armies. Its there but currently only in direct fire applications. If you want over the horizon Artillery to matter, you'll need to wait for the ordance server.
Well I would like to finish with this. From what I read, CRS has been focusing on new features called DEPLOYMENT, TERRAIN II, and a new UI for several/many months. Infantry emotes, ATRs, Rifle Grenadiers, Lean, Town orders (ie Fallback or Hold at all Cost), 3D trees/bushes, and etc. have only been released in the past several months.
By the way Kadesh, what is your ingame name and what side do you play on mostly?
http://www.wwiiol-pilots-manual.com/
If you keep this up I may just piss my pants laughing over here Kadesh. Those points especially the ones about ww2ol ballistics system being equal to a simple hitpoint system are over simplifications of the issue. There are fundamental differences between those systems, and just because all things of virtual "permanence" must be assigned a value or hitpoint or threshold does not make the two systems equal. Your just digging a hole to jump in if you keep following that train of thought.
It was a funny read none-the-less, I'm glad Slamen got to it first I wouldn't have time to do it justice with the little time I have left tonight. S!
Wise decision
Huh? The Allies had more tanks, BETTER tanks, more men, and vastly more artillery. Somehow that's a DISADVANTAGE for the Allied forces????
Geez.. have you even played since "no linky, no cappy" went into effect???
[/b][/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen
[b]"-No ability to attrite units unless they are already spawned in."[/color] Well true, CRS stated a long time ago that players had to control all major functions of all units. So no AI riflemen ever. But, you can make people spawn in by just capturing the town. Simple
Until they decide to issue "Fallback" of course, when the TOE magically teleports to neighbouring towns
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen
[b]"-After 3 years, we're still bumping radio tables to effect capture."[/color] Yea but standing in a close area for 2 minutes like in Joint Ops to change a flag on a bunker sound about the same to me.[/b][/quote]
Did I suggest it should be like Joint Ops?
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen
[b]-In WW2OL, the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is a fighter aircraft???"[/color] This statement is really really funny cause I just check this on the stat page. Just for this campaign alone that started in June, the number of allied infantry kills from axis fighters is only 4,936. Now the number of allied infantry kills from axis infantry is 403,498. Big difference I think. And just for sheits and grins, I checked the number of allied infantry kills from all axis tanks. It's just a measly 96,037. So I would like to revise your statement to make it more truthful and state the most dangerous opponent of an infantryman is the enemy infantryman. [/b][/quote]
Quite correct. A silly thing to say on my behalf. Sometimes it just seems that way though
[quote]Originally posted by Slamen
[b]"-The most devastating weapon against infantry and armour in real life (artillery) is not even modelled in game?" [/color] Not modeled, what about the 5inch guns on the destroyer, the 88mm cannon in the german spawn, the 75mm cannon on the StugIII, the PZ4, and on the french Char, the 40mm bofors in all armies. Its there but currently only in direct fire applications. If you want over the horizon Artillery to matter, you'll need to wait for the ordance server.[/b][/quote]
Assuming you can drop that 88 or 75 HE round right on top of that infantryman's head of course
Remember, no statistical HE for anything but grenades. Oh and of course I forgot the magical ordnance server. You mean I assume the ordnance server that CRS was talking about in early 2002 ... the one that was going to be ready in 4-12 weeks.
You seriously expect to see an ordnance server this side of 2010???
See my reply to demarii in the other thread if you want to know my opinion re these features. Whilst I agree that CRS has a need to attract newbies into the game, and whilst eye-candy is still high priority for that reason, I would argue that there is much which needs to be fixed at the CORE of the game before we start worrying about radial clutter, ATR's, infantry emotes, and 3D bushes which after 3 years still do not provide cover due to the infantryman's eyes being somehow located in the centre of his navel
Quite frankly, none of your business
CRS Forum Rules of Conduct being what they are, independent forums like these are often the only place where a completely unbiased point of view regarding WW2OL can be aired.
I mean, its great that you like the game. Heck I've been subscribed since LONG before June 2001. I was there on the day that the servers first opened to traffic, and crashed in a spectacular show. I remember thinking on 5th June 2001 "Oh God, tomorrow is going to be a bloodbath once people see what this game is REALLY like".
Even though I don't play on the live server much any more, I keep contributing on a monthly basis. I had a LOT of respect for the Rats when the game first opened, mainly because I thought they had the courage to try something that had never been done before.
At least they gave it a try
Kadesh,
With a picture, this...
type of damage model is much much more detailed and realistic than the BF42 damage model. Since you're a day 1 player, you know what all the lines represent.
Shesh, we could start another thread on arguing the advantages the Germans had in 1940 and they didn't win by just luck but by their military doctrine.
Have I ever played since the no linky thing. Yea I played back then, (day 1 player here too) and I remember the salt n pepper maps where there wasn't a front line but pockets of axis/allies all over. I think the no link/no cap really helped this game make it look like a war game.
To give another example of cutting off resupply, last Friday night I was helping the Brits attacking a specific town. A group of A13s/armored cars drove out behind the town and ambushed anyone resuppling from back line towns. This was under orders from the guys organizing the attack. And it worked. In game, the Germans were not able to boost their defense with armor brought from rear towns nor bring trucks of infantry up to keep the brits out. This is not an isolated event but happens when an organized attack with enough people involved gets executed reguardless of side.
Well no you didn't suggest Joint Ops, but then again you didn't suggest anything. Since JO just came out, you would think that if a better cap system existed, it would of been added in that game. But I noticed that it's cap system is very similar to WWIIOL's with the spawn point being the objective, infantry needs to sit and wait for the capture to occure, bla bla bla...
Yea, I'm not sure why the new stat model for shrapnel is not included into the HE tank shells yet. But I'm sure it will with one of the many patches that continue to come out, and probably soon.
Oh don't forget the concussion effects with HE too. Its in there and in fact I think they had to tone it down from the origional release back in 2003 since it was too deadly.
Hmm, see a Ordanance server this side of 2010, well yea I would take that bet.
Fine, none of my business. Ok what ever. But when was the last time you were in game? Or maybe a better question, when was the last time you were in game and had fun?
http://www.wwiiol-pilots-manual.com/
Kadesh: If u want to find that something is wrong u will.
Lets see this way. Can u name any other game that offer so much possibilities, and closer to the real-ife WWII?
Where u can blow of parts on vehicles? Organizes hundreds of ppl for one specific objective? Can see 3-4k kilometeres? Where u have a 1/2 scale map of a real life map? Where u get new things every 4-6 weeks? Where u can speak with the developers and have real impact about how the game is developed (ex: TrackIR, couple of fixes)? Which offers so much variety of gameplay? Which has better community? Where can i get a free WWIIOnline T-shirt from one of the Rats for making the hungarian HQ?
))
I love this game, nothing can beat it. If u dont like what u see, nobody is forcing u to play. I think u need to change the way u look at things, life will be so much better this way.
The only Hungarian squad in WWII Online
HUN HQ: http://www.wwiionline.hu
Get a life beatbox.. you have nothing better to do rather than slander the game we come here to discuss.. not talk down on.. do us a favor and just leave.. and don't look back
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Captain. Qweets of the Black Scorpion task force.. Axis WWII Online
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^^^LOL beatbox your still around?
This guy was banned from the game so many times for abusive language and play, even kicked out of my sqaud (known for abusive people) because of his complaining. Don't even listen to him, completely erase his comments from your mind.
BB after reading what you wrote I'm not really that mystified by what happened to get you kicked out of squad and game. Man you got a serious Ego thing goign on there.
Here's two remedies I offer to you in hopes you can recover...
1 ) Chant this mantra over and over... "It's just a game."
2 ) Understand that this game will never really become _Complete_ it is what it is, and it continues to evolve into something greater.
You need to make a choice about what you think will make the game Complete enough in your eyes, and understand that just because you have to do so does not mean other players have to view this game from such a limited and basic perspective.
You know who you remind me of? This little kid who came out to the paintball games the other weekend, and started to totally flip up because his gear and gun wasn't as good as some of his opposition. Most of us had pump actions but a few of our buddies are avid players and they have semi-auto's. Well he just HAD to have the best, and right there. But nobody was going to give him their expensive guns to play with so we ended up convincing him that just being on the side of the semi-auto's was enough to be a stone cold killer!
Guess who took point...
No offense bro, but just from your very attitude and egotistical way of viewing yourself, you were likely the cause of your own demise. A good leader doesn't demand respect. He earns it. And with your kind of attitude I doubt you could. Just my opinion, I may be wrong.
ciao
Yup Beatb0x. You earned so much respect that your own squad threw you out
I think you should go to some of the other games listed on this site and seriously look at their graphics. This game is not that bad. Several months ago I would have agreed with you but anymore, no. There are only a few eyesores left in game and those are slated for some serious graphics upgrades very soon.
Seriously, the screenshots above are only a small taste. There is a new grass sytem in and even flowers for cryin out loud. The aircraft come apart and blow up and if you hit the ammo storage area the tanks blow up real pretty like. The turrets go 100 feet in the air if he was still full of ammo, hehe.
The water got an overhaul for the rivers and looks pretty decent. Little details like the flags got a touch up so they wave now. New buildings are on the way and in fact we already have some new ones. We have a new Depot building that wasn't here when you last played. We have new barracks in the AB's which are 2 stories. We have a new Garage in the AB that is very cool and has lots of new close quarters fighting areas in it. The flag building is being overhauled and is coming in the next patch. I already say a screen shot and it looks very good.
Now get this. The graphics they have loaded at RAT headquartes are much better. The ones we see are 8Bit or something like that. Heard someone talking about this after the DSallas Minicon. He said the textures the will role out soon are so much better but the only thing they were waiting on is for most people to upgrade their machines and upgrade to broadband. They did a poll recently and only like 4% of the players are on 56k and most have good computers and good graphics cards so they will most likely do the upgrade fairly soon.
They also have a submarine that they have played with in beta, that will be very very cool.
I feel your pain on the release but seriously, that is old news and the game is so much better. If the game had been released in the form it's in now, CRS would be millionaires and you would have never left.
Would we love to see DOOM 3 Graphics in this game? Sure who wouldn't but look at some of those games coming out soon. Look at Outpost, it's on the main page. That game is supposed to come out next month and looks like total crap compared to WWIIOL.
I spent almost all day today looking through the games listed on this site and there are a lot of them that don't look as good as WWIIOL and there are many that only look as good. I even recognized the same speedtree technology in some of them. Speeking of those trees. Remember the old "Hard Forests"? They are no longer hard. You can drive tanks right through them and they actually have many trees that make up the forests. They are very cool and add a lot to the immersion. We use them all the time to hide big formations of tanks and infantry. We use them to hide in as we approach a FB to take it down.
Almost all of the old crappy vegetation is gone and there is just one more piece they have to go and that is the old hedgerows that lined the roads.
The main city buildings and the churches are getting an upgrade very soon to.
Seriously, take a look at those screens and then go look at some of the other games. One I looked at looked like Dues Ex which is fine but it's all indorr shoebox type stuff. Every game I looked at that had a long view distance and was any sort of shooter looked like crap compared to WWIIOL.