Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The end in sight?
LordAxle
Member Posts: 19
Before you say "OMFG DONT TROLL", this isn't another "I hope WoW dies" thread.
With all of the recent changes to WoW, I feel like the people who've been there for awhile are getting the shaft. On my main I raided up to MC, which I know isn't a huge achievement, but on a smaller server it wasn't too bad. Raids back then were fun, challenging, though a bit tedious trying to get 40 people online simultaneously...
Now with all these new patches and Burning Crusade, I think that the long time players are getting screwed. I enjoy(ed) the game because it is/was a challenge. Some of the later raids are still fun, and it's easier to get 10 and 25 people than 20 and 40 on to do them. My main complaint is with the changes to leveling, namely, making it easier to get from 20 to 60. This sticks a bunch of people who got a "Get Out of Leveling" card into Outlands pretty fast, where the people who've been there for awhile end up grouping with these idiots who can't play their class. With that XP change, we now have a MASSIVE overflow of DPS alts that people only want to play, making it harder to find tanks/healers.
Also introduced with Burning Crusade was the lovely addition of Jewelcrafting. Now, I loved Diablo II, don't get me wrong, and I feel that socketing has its place in WoW, but openly making one profession THAT much better than the rest is a bit idiotic. Couldn't Blizzard have gone through the different reputation factions Pre-BC and sprinkled them with patterns rather than stuffing every Outlands Rep Vendor with them? It would've given the old world another life, even with BC out. Now with WotLK coming soon, we're going to see the exact same thing with Inscription patterns.
Now with Patch 2.4, we get gear that is on par with Black Temple. Why? Blizzard spent so much time developing SSC, which most guilds on my server haven't touched yet, Mount Hyjal, and Black Temple that now that the gear is good enough, no one wants to go there. I still try to get groups together to go raid Old School Naxx, AQ20/40, and Onyxia, but everyone is only concerned with how good their gear is.
In addition, we can now get PvP gear by raiding.
I'll let that sink in.
Unless you're going to seamlessly merge PvP and PvE together, like WAR, keep them as two separate entities. People who PvP all the time because they have no interest in raiding are now going against other people who probably only PvP'd casually that are wearing the same pieces of gear they fought so hard for. And that principle goes for the hardcore raiders, as well. They busted their asses getting BT loot, and now because we can farm Kara and heroics all day long, we've got gear that's just as good. I feel that would be a cheapening blow to someone who takes pride in their character.
Last on my list to rant about is nerfs and buffs...
Yes, everyone's favorite, touchy subject. I'll not name classes but one, at the end. It's becoming more and more apparent that Blizzard is either NOT listening to player feedback, or IS listening and just doing whatever they damn well please. It honestly would not surprise me to learn that Blizzard buffed and nerfed classes because they spent all day PvPing and a few honest-to-god GOOD players were beating them, so they more or less told the developers to make a few choice changes. I'll admit that there are instances in which the classes did receive some overly powerful abilities that needed to be reduced, or some horribly lame skill that needed a boost, but it seems that more and more often it's focused on improving the most "popular" class. With WotLK introducing a new class and a new TYPE of class, it's going to be hell all over again. Blizzard really shouldn't be introducing a new class when they can't properly balance the classes they already have.
The one class I have to say something about, because it IS mine, is the priest.
This isn't an opinion, this is fact. Blizzard stated, in their ever-so-popular "blue posts", that shadowpriests are not meant to be the PvP spec of the class. The damage dealing spec, which doesn't have heals, outside of dropping shadowform and Vampiric Touch/Embrace, is not meant to be the PvP spec. The logic behind that baffles me.
Long post in short form, I don't think Blizzard really knows what it's doing anymore. Wrath of the Lich King will need to be truly awesome to regain a lot of the players Blizzard has scorned over the years. It's rather sad when the only reason I still play is to keep in touch with the guild, and there are quite a few there that feel the same way.
Here's looking at you, Warhammer. Ball's in your court now.
Comments
I think the reasons you stated are reasons why old-school MMO players have and are leaving WoW. That being Said, WoW's players are a new breed all together. There are players in WoW that will never ever play any other MMO and will stick with WoW because, to them, the new things released are just fun additions.
The AVERAGE WoW player doesn't care about the other guy's gear or how hard or easy it was for him to get it. Thats not the point to a lot of players. The point is fun.
Now, I don't think WoW is fun, but thats just me.
I say, live and let live. To each there own. And just because Wendy's comes out with the Baconator doesn't mean McDonalds is going to go under.
Then end is in sight for many on 5/20
WoW will not die,even in the worst case scenario it will still have atleast 1mil subs,plus blizzard made soo much money from WoW that they could visit 1mil WoW players just to tell them they are filithy rich because of them.
WoW will not die aslong as blizzard doesnt change the formula or people get bored of ultra simple unmimaginitive games (a cure for stupidy is found).
On a side note,I do not like where EA is taking WAR,it will most likely turn up a Lotr + WoW game,in terms of mechanics similarities.
Thats how all other MMORPG games work. Takes a special person to play as healer, or tank. You can even see people with a healer class playing as a dps, or a tank playing as a dps.
Heck, I keep a WoW account active for the times that I just want to have a bit of light fun.
And if you think of how many of the older games are still in existance after all these years then that should tell you something. Eventaully WoW will wind down but that will be years from now.
WoW is a casual game. It just is. It's players who have this competitive attitude who make it something that it really wasn't intended to be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You make valid points. The long-time players are the ones that Blizzard is in danger of losing. They have more or less taken all the hard work and hours upon hours we've invested into making our characters incredible and throwing them out the window.
Casual gamers will likely stick with WoW for awhile. But then again, casual gamers can be extremely fickle as well. It would really only take a small change and the number of subscribers could get cut. Blizzard knows that it is these people who keep the game at the number it's at, and more than likely, most of them play the "popular" classes, i.e. Hunters and Rogues.
Blizzard has a big choice to make, they can revolutionize WoW and return it to the roots it started at, making the game challenging and re-balancing the classes, which would lead to a cut in numbers, but more dedicated players, or they can continue to make the game easier to get the best of the best, again cutting the numbers and feeding on the casual market.
One way or another, the next great MMORPG is going to hurt WoW. Not as much as some people would like, but Blizzard's numbers are going to take a hit.
Thats how all other MMORPG games work. Takes a special person to play as healer, or tank. You can even see people with a healer class playing as a dps, or a tank playing as a dps.
I completely agree. It's not EASY to be a tank or a healer, but it is also by no means difficult. What the overflow causes is tons of people in the LFG, and because Blizzard broke that tool, Trade Channel looking for tanks and healers because the DPS is "covered".
On a side note, and more of a personal thing that irritates me about WoW, when is Blizzard going to make a World General Channel so we can use Trade for selling?
WOW will die someday. I somehow have the feeling it will be the release of WAR! :P
http://wow-vs-war.com/
Regarding leveling:
I don't understand why this is such a bad thing -- I do not believe the changes is really that game-breaking. The easing of leveling process is enough for people to get to know their class~ each even level people gets 2 to a max 4 new spells, that to me: is still a smooth learning curve. Besides, to be a good player in a group -- one requires more exercises (read: more grouping) rather than more levels to grind. No amount of levels can replace one line of constructive criticism from a seasoned player.- People want to try out different classes
- Raiding guilds require certain people to roll an alt to fill spots.
- People want to have different alts so that they can easily switch, should their class gets nerf'd
Easing the levelling process serves these situation.
Then, get a good guild or add smart players into your friend list rather than PUG'ing. Or, if you're a good player yourself: you know there's a demand for those 2 positions -- gearing up will be a breeze, and you'll find your name in many people's friends list.Don't have a healer or a tanker yourself ? Then maybe it's time to make good use the easiness of levelling up. I've been to Naxx (up to Maexxna) and Twin Emps on AQ40 just before TBC hits. Not a bad accomplishment for a relatively casual guild. We were not raiding for the loots, but rather: for the fun of raiding itself. Thus no, I and many of my raiding friends have never felt that BT loot delivers any cheapening blow to our accomplishments: the feelings and the pride to refer to 'those good old days' are still there. As if Priest needs yet another pvp spec ?
Disc and Holy are viable (and sometimes preferable) spec in BGs/pvp. Blizz drastically changed Shadowmend into Vampiric Touch, that change alone (or you may add Holy's Blessed Resilience), should raise a flag that tells you which tree is for what purpose. The trade channel (/2) being localised to cities are already annoying.
Another channel (globally !) for kiddies spamming murloc / Chuck Norris stuff is I believe -- the last thing we need.
The great thing about subscription based games is that it's instant feedback to the developers on the type of job they are doing. If you don't like what they are doing, unsubscribe and make sure you tell them why. There's a place for you to leave comments, I'd take advantage of that if I were you. Blizzard probably pays a lot more attention to those comments than they do the ones in the forums. If it's broke enough for you to unsubscribe and enough people unsubscribe for the same reason as you, there's a good chance Blizzard will notice and do something about it. Continuing to subscribe to the game while complaining in the forums looks a lot more like whining than valid complaints, not just to me but to Blizzard as well.
You're right, this isn't another "I hope WoW dies" thread, this is another "WoW is dieing for me, can't the rest of you see it?" thread.
Yeah it has for me too, I have just simply grown bored of it. And truthfully I was a bit dissapointed with the BC expansion. I have had 2 WoW account over the course of the last 3 years and after seeing how much of the previous game content they re packaged, re sized or simply changed the color of something and served it back to us, I wasn't feeling to confident in the job they're doing. This had led to me being bored with the game. I still currently have an active account but also have another game on pre order (I won't mention it) that I will be leaving WoW for next month. Up on doing so I will be leaving my reasons in the comments box when I do.
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
Blizzard doesnt care about long term players. Your so right in that point. Thats why more and more of them are leaving.
When a computer developer doesn't respect the players that have played a game on charcter(s) by doing everything possible to maintain balanced gameplay - AND in keeping those loyal and good playes REWARDED on their main character then its time to quit.
Good players dont play gimped characters, classes or specs. WoW is now nothing other than devs making disission on who they allow to rule the game. It has nothing to do with the players anymore. And then its time to get out.
I feel that Blizzard is waiting for There New game to be build and then after it does and its a Hit ! Then WOW be another game like Starcraft... Warcraft.. Diblo and Diblo 2 they still be around but they wont get the work they need to keep long time players to stay !
I think you may find a kindred spirit in AlanOn and his argument with regards to Pally's and how badly they have been nerfed too. Maybe the two of you should form a little site of your own and moan about how badly they have let dedicated players down.
Actually thank you for making my point about how although some people fealt that their class/build was the only one being messed with, others will feel otherwise.
I can only say what i have said before and that is either adapt or if you feel that it is a step too far to do so, vote with your wallet and stop your subscription. WoW has adjusted class balance since day one in one way or another and as far as i can remember which ever class feels aggrieved at that time cries out "blizzard has lost it, we are leaving", yet the subs keep on coming so 'go figure.' Things are going to change even more coming up to the expansion and probably even more after the expansion, especially with a new class joining the group and it having to carve it's own niche, so i will be bracing myself for many more of these posts yet.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I'm very much liking the more casual approach that Blizzard are bringing into WoW.
For a long time, the hardcore raiders have swanned around with the mentality that they were better players than everyone else and this attitude was lent credence because their gear was, well.. better than everyone elses. That's a generalisation of course, not all raiders are/were elitist morons.
Having raided in WoW from 2005-2007 (with several different types of characte), I've experienced both sides of the "raider vs casual" mentality, and I know for an absolute fact that for most classes, raiding does NOT require a vast amount of personal skill. Learning a DPS sequence that consists of pressing 5 buttons in order? /castsequence macros? Spamming heals on an assigned target? Tanking a static mob? Add in the "raid by numbers" element from sites such as bosskillers.com and being in a raid guild is nothing to feel arrogant about.
Now of course, everyone can have uber epics; the PvPers via arena/BGs, the casual PvErs via badge farming and 10 man raids and of course, the hardcore raiders with the 25 man raid instances. It's fair to every player demographic (except the crafters, but Blizzard hates crafters).
Blizzard, I salute you. I hope Warhammer learns the same lessons that Blizzard clearly has, and caters to the casuals as well as the hardcore uberspod.
You really have problems Jason - u know that ?
Or are you arguing that shadow priests and holy palas have not been nerfed to the point ppl are quitting those specs ? No your not. So unless you can actually bring on some logical discusson based on anything other than flaming ppl that are here talking about the state of the class - then I suggest you just leave it alone. If you think only 2 players have quit shadow priests and holy paladins in the past 2 months. Not to mention left the game cause of it - then you know very little what ur talking about.
No Im not paying for WoW atm - and I wont do it again. But Im free to keep stating my opinions and say here for the next 3 years that I left the game cause of obvious balancing issues that were not dealt with fairly (in my opinion) and there is absolutly nothing you can do or say about it.
Its part of the repitition this game will have to life with now. The fact that there are ppl leaving cause of balancing reasons and that is serious matter in MMO game. I know you dont care - since its not affecting you. But that does not change how other ppl feel and are quitting. Your bull does not change that.
Ok, first off: When you're on top of the mountain, the only direction to go is down.
Second: WoW's becoming the casual man's game now, or trying very hard to. They want to please the 10m people, they want to get them all to 70 and get them in the life-wasting dungeons and PvP that make them as much money as actually leveling. This will cause some unbalance and more DPS than tanks/healers, I agree with that. They can do their best to balance it all out, but a few hundred, even a few thousand people out of 10m is nothing more than a small scratch.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
It is not so much that i don't care that people feel upset about their classes/build being changed, it is that i have become indifferent to the same complaints over and over again every time Blizzard change anything in the game. The fact that you feel aggrieved about the changes to your class is not invalid, but you are not the first and i can pretty much say for certain that you won't be the last. People leaving or threatening to leave WoW because of class balance changes is nothing new at the end of the day, so you will excuse me if i don't start running around telling everyone that the sky is falling in! As we have seen from previous posts here, some may share your views but others feel otherwise and are getting on with the changes to their classes/builds successfully, you may feel that you are right but i am pretty sure that they do too.
I could come here and moan about the availability of 'detect invisible' buffs in Arena's being unfair to rogues, about how it is a pain in the ass not to be able to stealth just because someone else has aggroed a MOB next to me and how all leather gear seems druid biased now, but i don't. If i have a problem with the game i use the test realms and other channels to Blizzard to put my points across in a way that may actually influence something or at the very least raise the point to the right people. In the mean time i make changes to my gear/build/strategies to compensate for the changes and get on with enjoying the game. If i just stood around here screaming "its unfair, it's unfair" it may make me feel a bit better to get it out of my system, but it will never change anything.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
It is not so much that i don't care that people feel upset about their classes/build being changed, it is that i have become indifferent to the same complaints over and over again every time Blizzard change anything in the game. The fact that you feel aggrieved about the changes to your class is not invalid, but you are not the first and i can pretty much say for certain that you won't be the last. People leaving or threatening to leave WoW because of class balance changes is nothing new at the end of the day, so you will excuse me if i don't start running around telling everyone that the sky is falling in! As we have seen from previous posts here, some may share your views but others feel otherwise and are getting on with the changes to their classes/builds successfully, you may feel that you are right but i am pretty sure that they do too.
I could come here and moan about the availability of 'detect invisible' buffs in Arena's being unfair to rogues, about how it is a pain in the ass not to be able to stealth just because someone else has aggroed a MOB next to me and how all leather gear seems druid biased now, but i don't. If i have a problem with the game i use the test realms and other channels to Blizzard to put my points across in a way that may actually influence something or at the very least raise the point to the right people. In the mean time i make changes to my gear/build/strategies to compensate for the changes and get on with enjoying the game. If i just stood around here screaming "its unfair, it's unfair" it may make me feel a bit better to get it out of my system, but it will never change anything.
Absolutely. To Blizz, people that run around screaming "it's unfair!" are like headless chickens, running around. It may make them feel better but Blizz knows whatever change they make, it'll just upset someone else. People want the game to be perfect which is an impossible goal. If I ever see a game where everything is balanced and there's only a few people grumbling, even if it has stick figure graphics and no background story at all, I'll play it. Just to experience something that never existed before, lol!
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Absolutely. To Blizz, people that run around screaming "it's unfair!" are like headless chickens, running around. It may make them feel better but Blizz knows whatever change they make, it'll just upset someone else. People want the game to be perfect which is an impossible goal. If I ever see a game where everything is balanced and there's only a few people grumbling, even if it has stick figure graphics and no background story at all, I'll play it. Just to experience something that never existed before, lol!
I've made this point before and I'll make it again, the forums themselves are proof that the game IS balanced. How's that you say? Go read the class forums. On EVERY SINGLE ONE you will find people complaining that THEIR class is underpowered. EVERY SINGLE ONE!! If that's not balance then I don't know what is.
Their is only one group of headless chickens in WOW atm. Thats the devs. They have now created a system that they can't keep balanced. I've stated that many times here. Unfair is big word and I have never said anyting about unfair. What I HAVE said is that MMO needs to be build on fair ruleset. WoW is not build on that atm. The Devs know it and are stating they never meant it to be blanaced. Ok ... then its just time to move on - but it also means those that know what is going on are allowed to tell exactly what they feel and warn others what is going on behind the scenes. If you can't handle me posting here then thats really not my problem. Like you said- Im not the only one talking here about these issues. Ur welcome to say u disagree but that doesn't make you right. And talking about headless chickens doesn't make it any more right either.
I have given detailed answers on many of the basic factors in WOW that Im conserned about. Call that headless chicken talk or answer it based on something more than that.
Or are you talking specs ? You mean that game is balanced when one spec of class that has same amount of talent points to work with is weaker than other spec ? Oh well ...
Again - go link me those posts.
Lol Alan0n, cmon man, stop taking analogies and examples so literally! Just because you've stated what you're concerned with doesn't mean YOU'RE right, either. You may be partially right (and I think you are, in thinking that WoW's a failure), but don't try to force all your points on us, making them all sound 100% correct. The basic ruleset that you said MMOs should be built on is more of a guildeline, personally I don't think it can be achieved.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Im not forcing anyone to agree with me on anything. Im just givning my opinion and giving examples on why I have those opinions.
I just asked a person that claims balance is based on every class and spec beeing equally unhappy to show me examples. Just like me he has his opinion - it doesn't make it right but he can support it with examples at least.
The only thing that's about to end is the sickly glorification of unreleased MMOs such as WAR or AoC that, like LOTRO and Vanguard and all the rest, are doomed to disappoint the people that believe they will be the second coming of Jesus, and will be crushed by Wrath of the Lich king like a bug in the ground.
A bug!
In the GROUND.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...